PraiseTheSun

Low FPS not reflective of hardware

26 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Is there a fix for this.

 

The FPS DOESNT change when I turn down the settings I get the same exact fps at EPIC as HIGH as turning shadows off and foliage to med or low.

I even tryed to lower it to 1080 instead of 1440 little change

 

I have a I7 4790K 32GB Ram and TWO GTX MSI 970s.(Yes I know it doesn't support SLI)
There is no reason I should have sub thirty fps.
It goes from 70 down to 25 randomly and since its such a huge drop its makes my game lag like crazy.

Sometimes its just bad fps and stays bad 20-45 range.

Yes my nvidia settings are on performance and all correct power and control panel settings.

 

It gets so bad I can't even play the game.

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma With SLI on from inspector forced profile.

Pre-Clean Driver Install on full server/large map

 

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-formaBase game profile which doesn't support SLI. Still maxing my GPU for no FPS gains

Pre-Clean Driver Install on full server/large map

 

 

D8241E42E460E5F07A5E5C67A48B9697E60FAE53

Post driver install on a not full server/smaller map.

 

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

Post driver install on a not full server/smaller map.

 

The problem is the 100% usage still remains even on smaller maps with less people.

 

Here's a large map full  server test result, again still forcing my GPU to 100% for no gains in FPS.

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma1920x1080

Post-Clean Driver Install on full server/large map

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma2560x1440

Post-Clean Driver Install on full server/large map

 

More 1440 evidence ALL THESE BELOW WERE TAKEN FROM THE SAME SERVER SAME MATCH about halfway through it just started running horribly.

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

 

Literally no change in switching of setting so I'm just confused at this point...

 

Edited by PraiseTheSun

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Yes something is wrong.

 

I used to play on a 4790K at 4.8Ghz, GTX 1070 8GB,16GB 1866 RAM, SSD and I could hold 71fps at 1440p with the odd slight dip to mid 60's across all maps, full servers.

 

It's likely something to do with the SLI (not supported in Squad as far as I know), graphics drivers or VRAM Pool (ensure texture streaming is off as you only have 3.5GB of full speed VRAM with those GPU's I see Rivatuner reporting 4GB VRAM use so this could be the problem).

 

Is your CPU running at stock or is it overclocked?

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Posted (edited)

Its only oc'd to 4.4 well within the safe volts for it due to only having air cooling and living in a rather hot environment.

Also only the one was the SLI forced profile the others were all the stock game single GPU. I only did the SLI force to see if it was my GPU going bad but since it forced both to 100% to me that means its not my hardware but i could always be wrong.

I also updated it with more information for you to look through.

I tried on three different version of drivers, still had the problem.

I've read multiple articles on how people have had this problem with the MSI 970s, none provided a solution the threads just died.

I just don't know if it was MSI putting out bad cards or these Devs not optimizing the game for them. Or maybe both...

Edited by PraiseTheSun

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Right understood, I am almost certain it's the VRAM.

 

You need to run the game not consuming more than 3.5GB VRAM otherwise the normal RAM will be utilised at a much lower speed (I think this is the effect I have not tested myself).

 

Fully disable SLI, turn all in game settings to low or off, all AA off etc and see how it performs then tweak up according to the VRAM consumed.

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Posted (edited)

Considering I have to restart my game every time I change settings this round of testing was a bitch. But i was able to get all these tests on the same server and same map and most of the Screen shots in the same village. They are not consistent at all, its almost like flipping a coin on if the game will run well or not which all seems to be in relation to the VRAM usage.

 

But here are the results

1440p with mixed settings such as high view distance and smaa (this one was on a different server then the other two tests.

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

 

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

 

1440p ALL LOWEST NO AA

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

 

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

 

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

 

1080p ALL LOWEST NO AA

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

 

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

 

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

 

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

 

 

In conclusion its defiantly a VRAM problem, as the usage goes up my FPS goes down. It doesn't even seem to care what the clock is at.

At this point I'm just confused, IDK the only logical thing is a VRAM leak but that would most likely be game side as I dont experience this on other games with the exception of Total War Warhammer, but thats understandable with 40 stack armies and thousands of moving units, thousands of calculations for each soldier battle, and its a newer game then my GPU and its a more demanding game then my GPU can deliver performance. For squad as well changing it to 1080p made it use more VRAM WTF?  Well Squad is about as old as the 970 and others have reported this problem as well but none had solutions on their posts.

Edited by PraiseTheSun

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1 hour ago, PraiseTheSun said:

Considering I have to restart my game every time I change settings this round of testing was a bitch. But i was able to get all these tests on the same server and same map and most of the Screen shots in the same village. They are not consistent at all, its almost like flipping a coin on if the game will run well or not which all seems to be in relation to the VRAM usage.

 

But here are the results

1440p with mixed settings such as high view distance and smaa (this one was on a different server then the other two tests.

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

 

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

 

1440p ALL LOWEST NO AA

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

 

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

 

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

 

1080p ALL LOWEST NO AA

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

 

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

 

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

 

?interpolation=lanczos-none&output-forma

 

 

In conclusion its defiantly a VRAM problem, as the usage goes up my FPS goes down. It doesn't even seem to care what the clock is at.

At this point I'm just confused, IDK the only logical thing is a VRAM leak but that would most likely be game side as I dont experience this on other games with the exception of Total War Warhammer, but thats understandable with 40 stack armies and thousands of moving units, thousands of calculations for each soldier battle, and its a newer game then my GPU and its a more demanding game then my GPU can deliver performance. For squad as well changing it to 1080p made it use more VRAM WTF?  Well Squad is about as old as the 970 and others have reported this problem as well but none had solutions on their posts.

 

 

A single 970 will struggle to achieve high frame rates at 1440p.  Simple as that. Also comparing it to games that have released as full versions is not likely to yield you much intel. Squad is still in early access, it is not a final product, its game systems are still changing and it is definitely not optimized.

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Posted (edited)

high detail screens at 1440p and low detail screens are with some slight exceptions GPU bound meaning your FPS are limeted by what your GPU can deliver ( 94-99% Usage )

1080p low screens show the typical CPU bottleneck , FPS are limited by what the CPU can delive on crutial Tasks.

 

I would suggest finding proper detail settings for your GFX power by using firing range(if i remind right you can switch maps there to) to eleminate CPU bottleneck as good as possible while testing.

CPU limited scenes however will ocure still in multiplayer , you can only prevent this while playing on lower playercount servers.

 

 

Edited by moppel

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On 5/19/2017 at 1:14 PM, fu* said:

 

 

A single 970 will struggle to achieve high frame rates at 1440p.  Simple as that. Also comparing it to games that have released as full versions is not likely to yield you much intel. Squad is still in early access, it is not a final product, its game systems are still changing and it is definitely not optimized.

The FPS wasn't changing even when the settings were. That's the problem and this is a post more to report it then to solve my problems. Also I know a couple people with EVGA 970s that don't have this problem.

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Posted (edited)

On 5/20/2017 at 0:32 PM, moppel said:

high detail screens at 1440p and low detail screens are with some slight exceptions GPU bound meaning your FPS are limeted by what your GPU can deliver ( 94-99% Usage )

1080p low screens show the typical CPU bottleneck , FPS are limited by what the CPU can delive on crutial Tasks.

 

I would suggest finding proper detail settings for your GFX power by using firing range(if i remind right you can switch maps there to) to eleminate CPU bottleneck as good as possible while testing.

CPU limited scenes however will ocure still in multiplayer , you can only prevent this while playing on lower playercount servers.

 

 

So your saying that squad using all of 20-35% of my CPU is bottle necking. If that's true its due to bad optimization on the games part as 4.4 GHZ I7 is overkill for this game.

If anything its my 970 VRAM falling short, thanks MSI/nvidia I bought a 4gb card I got 3.5.

 

On firing range at 1080p I'm at 110-135 FPS and 1440p 65-80. I've only noticed these problems on the militia maps.

Edited by PraiseTheSun

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So your saying that squad using all of 20-35% of my CPU is bottle necking. If that's true its due to bad optimization on the games part

Yes and yes

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Posted (edited)

On ‎5‎/‎23‎/‎2017 at 2:03 AM, PraiseTheSun said:

So your saying that squad using all of 20-35% of my CPU is bottle necking. If that's true its due to bad optimization on the games part as 4.4 GHZ I7 is overkill for this game.

If anything its my 970 VRAM falling short, thanks MSI/nvidia I bought a 4gb card I got 3.5.

 

 

 

Could you post a screenshot of your task manager while in game like this 

It would let you know if you are being bottlenecked by a single thread because Squad is heavily single threaded.

Edited by godamntwitch

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Posted (edited)

On 23.5.2017 at 9:03 AM, PraiseTheSun said:

So your saying that squad using all of 20-35% of my CPU is bottle necking. If that's true its due to bad optimization on the games part as 4.4 GHZ I7 is overkill for this game.

If anything its my 970 VRAM falling short, thanks MSI/nvidia I bought a 4gb card I got 3.5.

 

On firing range at 1080p I'm at 110-135 FPS and 1440p 65-80. I've only noticed these problems on the militia maps.

Totally CPU bottlenecking, every CPU is "b.n." on modern GPU. And every one gets on solo/firing range great fps becouse your CPU then doesnt calculate such of physics calculations and a lot more of calculations on multiplayer, players ragdoll animations +++++++....

 

CPU Single Core performance means on Squad > FPS! 

I got Cinebench r15 single core test ~235 points i7-7700K @5400Mhz.

Ryzen 1800X gets 155-160 points on that test. So my CPU is ~45% faster than a stock AMD Ryzen. That is almost at half faster!

 

Amd Ryzens: ~150-160+ points.

7700K Stock: ~200 (160+25%=200, so stock 7700K is 25% faster than Ryzens on Squad, and Kaby Lakes OCs easily 4.8-5.0Ghz)

My CPU: 235 points.

 

Cinebench r15 Single Core database on stock CPU:s:

http://www.cpu-monkey.com/en/cpu_benchmark-cinebench_r15_single_core-7

 

Heres my Squad CPU usage on 2 different map, about 1h gaming on 70+ players.

 

3rd column is maximum usage.

izq42h.jpg

On line: Max CPU/Thread Usage show max. single core usage, i got it 92.7%, on 7700K@ 5400Mhz! Some time on the gaming its almost bottlenecked (if even at 1 core usage has been 95%+).

 

My Total maximum CPU usage has been "46.4%", but that is NOT true, becouse it calculates it from all cores, some of cores are almost idling and Hyper-Thread cores also working at low usage level. 

 

Example, your 2 cores(=threads) might be 100% usage, and 6 other cores (=threads) are allmost idling (on 4core/8thread CPU like an i7) let's say 20% usage, so 100+100+20+20+20+20+20+20=320.

320/8=40. So calc. > intermediate usage is 40%, even at same time a couple of yours CPU cores totally bottleneck at 100% usage... 

 

You can see that and a lot more at free program, HWiNFO.

HWiNFO DL url

 

 

Edited by Hiikeri
Typos

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4 hours ago, banOkay said:

lol@ your comparison...

?

 

i7-4790K (4.4Ghz) : 169 points.

 

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Posted (edited)

Just install 372.90 drivers after uninstalling your current one using Display Driver Uninstaller.

Edited by Skul

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I also had this issue. turns out windows 10 has a Game DVR feature that needs to be turned off. It's within the Xbox App. I used to get 25-30 FPS on LOWEST SETTINGS before and now I'm back to normal to 50-60 FPS on ULTRA. A real game changer :) 

 

My Rig:

 

4930K

GTX 770 (2GB)

16GB RAM

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On 26.05.2017 at 4:33 PM, CptDirty said:

I also had this issue. turns out windows 10 has a Game DVR feature that needs to be turned off. It's within the Xbox App. I used to get 25-30 FPS on LOWEST SETTINGS before and now I'm back to normal to 50-60 FPS on ULTRA. A real game changer :) 

 

My Rig:

 

4930K

GTX 770 (2GB)

16GB RAM

 

Seems like bullshit for me :D

 

PraiseTheSun try to downgrade you're graphic drivers to 368.81-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql. But first uninstall old one with DDU and after fresh instalation don't forget to set up power settings to high. Gib a sign if it works ;)

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So can someone sum all this talk up to ONE simple sentence with a solution? :) 

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1 hour ago, esbenrose said:

So can someone sum all this talk up to ONE simple sentence with a solution? :) 

 

Game and engine are unoptimized and bound by single core performance, will (probably) get better but not much and will stay bound by single core.

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On 6/13/2017 at 3:27 AM, Ops3t said:

 

Seems like bullshit for me :D

 

PraiseTheSun try to downgrade you're graphic drivers to 368.81-desktop-win10-64bit-international-whql. But first uninstall old one with DDU and after fresh instalation don't forget to set up power settings to high. Gib a sign if it works ;)

 

I'm just sharing what worked for me. 

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On 6/14/2017 at 7:12 PM, banOkay said:

 

Game and engine are unoptimized and bound by single core performance, will (probably) get better but not much and will stay bound by single core.

 So your a UE4 developer?

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Posted (edited)

On 5/26/2017 at 10:33 AM, CptDirty said:

I also had this issue. turns out windows 10 has a Game DVR feature that needs to be turned off. It's within the Xbox App. I used to get 25-30 FPS on LOWEST SETTINGS before and now I'm back to normal to 50-60 FPS on ULTRA. A real game changer :) 

 

My Rig:

 

4930K

GTX 770 (2GB)

16GB RAM

I had a GTX 760 2gb  and I could barely  get 25 -30 FPS on low....cough cough 50 - 60 fps coughbullshit

Edited by Devastation

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Some may be interested in this... hopefully, well see some improvement when devs update to UE4 v4.16.

 

Bug found in UE4 4.14 slated for 4.16 fix: https://issues.unrealengine.com/issue/UE-42956

 

I personally notice the greatest loss in fps performance after update from Squad v8.11 to v9.xx. Reading the Squad release notes for v9 in March, that's when they went from v4.13 to v4.14; v4.14 is when the bug was introduced that has a performance hit (per UE4 staff).

 

Excerpt from bug review comment:

 

I've tested this across multiple versions and it appears to break from 4.13 to 4.14. Which happens to be when we upgraded to PhysX 3.4. There isn't really any immediate fix for you, but I've entered UE-42956 for investigation. You can track the report's status as the issue is reviewed by our development staff. Please be aware that this issue may not be prioritized or fixed soon.

-Matt W.

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Or maybe people should just face reality that UE4 is a steaming pile of garbage favored by game developers for its simple point and click tools?
Every game that uses UE4 has the same issues, the issues of performance are not SQUAD specific.

IMHO the quicker the devs port SQUAD to an engine that actually works like Lumberyard the better off ALL players will be...

I have little time for people's hocus pocus ways of looking at revision numbers in the *hope* that UE4 will somehow get better on next release... Instead why don't you show me some real world performance increases.

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Posted (edited)

14 hours ago, RollingInTheHurt said:

IMHO the quicker the devs port SQUAD to an engine that actually works like Lumberyard the better off ALL players will be...

Newer happen.

 

Just bought MUCH more CPU powerfull PC, actually single core only performs.

 

I got average 80-110fps on full servers, Epic+Cinematic 2560x1440, but my GTX 1080Ti @2000/12k is limiting factor. 

 

Alseway i got 100-200fps on full servers so my GPU is limiting factor.

Edited by Hiikeri

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