Nicirin

[Suggestion] Scout's Mine, TK's should go to the driver

28 posts in this topic

I just got banned for TK'ing an entire squad because their driver was a dip-shit and hit my mine about 400 meters away from me and I lost score in game. Of course they blame me when there is no way to prevent my team from hitting our mines they can see on the map. Please change to TK's go to the driver if they hit mines and kill themselves and or their squad.

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I get what you're saying, but technically it's still your mine killing them.
Maybe you should discuss mine placement with your/other sl to prevent such things.

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Perhaps the TK message should say how the death was caused.

 

Eg

xxxxx was team killed with AT mine @ 200m.

xxxxx was team killed with frag grenade @ 10m.

xxxxx was team killed with pistol @ 2m.

 

Then admins and SLs can make a better judgment on if the tk was intensional or not.

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I'd say split it up.

> The guy placing the mine gets a TK for killing the driver.

> The driver gets TKs for killing his passengers.

 

Both of them need to be careful.

 

 

Some people ignore mines no matter how much you warn them and I know how annoying it is to get TKs for that.

Still, there needs to be some kind of punishment for the mine-layer or we will just get trolls that mine base entrances or passages where the mine can not be avoided.

 

 

Aside from that, I think mines shouldn't instantly destroy heavy vehicles like strikers or mraps. Passengers should still get a chance to dismount before it blows up.

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Good idea.

To prevent trolling and abuse the mine marker could show a name of the person who placed it and remain for a short time after exploding. This way if mines appear in stupid/abusive places the culprit can be found and punished.

 

Already trolls are driving over mines on purpose. They get no penalty. They should get worse than the person who placed the mine.

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Posted (edited)

This is ****ing terrible I see people getting banned because their team can't open their god damn map and watch for mines. This needs to be addressed.

 

The other part of the issue is SERVER ADMINS put auto ban scripts on even when they aren't online so it bans anyone with a certain amount of TKS EX: a striker full of people insta ban from server. Even though they ran over your ****ing mine on the enemies side of the map. Complete bullshit.

Edited by Nicirin

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Posted (edited)

@Nicirinevery squad server auto-bans after 7 TK, as far as I'm aware that's hardcoded and can't even removed by admins if they'd like to at the current point of time. Don't blame server admins for that. Rather say thanks for providing servers to you and working every day on keeping them playable and a nice place for you. Which isn't true for Squad only, but for every other privately hosted server in any game.

 

my 2 cents about TKs for drivers: that's even bigger BS, because then you'll have the scouts troll with mines at base exits or narrow roads everybody passes. They can even troll more than now then, because other people will be banned instead of themselves. And to be honest: I've seen more people laying troll-mines than people willingly driving over own ones. Even if it's serious gameplay where something like that happens - if you don't have to be afraid to TK someone with a badly placed mine, mines will end up being put everywhere without a thought and we'll end up with even more TKs and even less tactical improvement and "help" than nowaday, which in result will lead to negative experiences for even more people.

Also... less enough people like to drive already now. If everybody's afraid of being auto-banned because they drove over a mine... that will not help with that situation.

 

Squad is a tactical game and that's what we all like the most about it (if I may speak for most squaddies I know at least). That does, in my opinion, also include that mines need to be placed thoroughly thought through and not just put somewhere as kill-guarantee with some TK point subtractions in the minor grade. It's one tactical tool SLs and scouts have and they should use it correspondingly. That includes, in my eyes, a feeling about the responsibilty for their own mines - so, for example, that mines are dug out when the own team advantages to other flags to limit the possibility of friendly losses.

 

TL;DR. So, concluding, do I find the mine-usage optimal? No! Do I think there needs to be changed something? Partly. Not with who gets TKs and IF anybody get's TKs as well. That's good as it is already now in my opinion. The attitude and approach of some players might be a bigger part of the problem here than the underlaying game mechanics. It's not Battlefield or CoD after all, still with mines some people tend to play it exactly as it.

Having a hint for admins in the top left messages field that shows with what a TK was conducted with (it's already in the server logs, so it's already there - start using it...) and maybe the option to exclude weapons or categories from the auto-ban system... that would help a lot with that situation. Even for admins it's hard to tell sometimes and with the logs getting quite big these days, you only look through them when there's a real complain, because it can take several minutes to find out what really happened even if you exactly know "when" and "who".

Apart from that - if you notice someone trolling with mines or willingly drives over own ones - report to an admin or mod of the said server immediately. They will be willing to help you if they're serious and try resolve the situation.

 

my opinion. yours may differ. :)

Edited by char0n
a bit clarification :)

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Wait 7 TK autobans are hardcoded? I can't stand automatic bans, especially in a game where a single vehicle can easily hold more than 7 people... All it takes is one really unlucky mistake, such as a friendly transport truck full of friendlies that's already been hit getting in the way of an RPG and someone gets autobanned... absolute BS. I don't care how rare it is, no one that makes a simple mistake should be automatically banned no matter how bad the mistake was.

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1 hour ago, char0n said:

@Nicirinyou'll have the scouts troll with mines at base exits or narrow roads everybody passes. They can even troll more than now then, because other people will be banned instead of themselves.

 

my opinion. yours may differ. :)

Absolutely mine differs. If you don't like a mine in a spot you can dig it up. There is absolutely no reason to 'accidentally' roll over a friendly mine when it's clearly posted on their map.

What you're saying is it's perfectly fine for carelessness of some to cause a (good) feature of the game to be unused.

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Friendly mines are marked on the map,there is no excuse for someone driving over them because he can't be bothered to look at his map.

 

If they do (cus shiz happens) it shouldn't be downed as a "TK"  but a "Suicide/s"...

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19 minutes ago, Xx-RAGING-DEATH-xX said:

Friendly mines are marked on the map,there is no excuse for someone driving over them because he can't be bothered to look at his map.

 

If they do (cus shiz happens) it shouldn't be downed as a "TK"  but a "Suicide/s"...

 

^Agree 100%, got 4 tks in a round and almost kicked from server. Constantly typing in chat watch for friendly mines (yellow crossbones), informing SL's from other squads in my proximity about placement and to warn their squad-mates and still racked up TKs. This needs to count as "suicide" and not tk. It should also carry the respawn time penalty that a suicide carries to encourage more caution!

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Posted (edited)

[Delete / Will edit at a computer]

Edited by DoctorKamikaze

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Posted (edited)

7 tk autoban hardcoded and they make 100% of the "TK's" AT mines go to the ****ing scout that placed it. Jesus christ. Dev's? HELLO?

 

I know Dev's and they are logical fellows, this will get fixed but we need to bring it to their attention.

 

Please, help bring it to their attention.

 

I have never been kicked for TK in any game before much less banned. only to ****ing AT MINES our careless team ran over when I was out babysitting the mines with proxy chat trying to prevent our allies from running them over but they did anyway when they were placed at a choke point at the enemies second flag after rushing and holding the point from a previous kill on an enemy striker with a mine.

 

Too many people blame the mine placer than the ****wits that run them over with 9+ people in the vehicle. I have never ran over a mine because I use the map when I drive and understand driving a vehicle is putting everyone's lives at risk and when I am passenger I ****ing watch to make sure the driver isn't a moron.

 

You think one of those seven or more passengers would have the diligence to ****ing open their map and pay attention, but no, they are all basically AFK useless waiting for instruction from their most likely incompetent squad leader that is more fascinated by his abuse of power kicking people for not obeying his every command as he micromanages his players than he is focused on logically winning the battle he is in.

Edited by Nicirin

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, PROTOCOL said:

 

^Agree 100%, got 4 tks in a round and almost kicked from server. Constantly typing in chat watch for friendly mines (yellow crossbones), informing SL's from other squads in my proximity about placement and to warn their squad-mates and still racked up TKs. This needs to count as "suicide" and not tk. It should also carry the respawn time penalty that a suicide carries to encourage more caution!

This totally. I was babysitting my mines with voice proxy when they were way on the enemies side of the map (2nd flag). In a chokepoint no less, so they would most likely run through it and it worked on the enemy more than our own team. AND STILL our they got hit twice for a ban. ****ing incompetent. I was basically running around babysitting my mines to make sure our team didn't hit them than I was actually playing the game. Please fix this devs. I couldn't even voice communicate with my team because I AM SCOUT not SL. 

Edited by Nicirin

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Posted (edited)

6 hours ago, ZachTheGunner said:

Wait 7 TK autobans are hardcoded? I can't stand automatic bans, especially in a game where a single vehicle can easily hold more than 7 people... All it takes is one really unlucky mistake, such as a friendly transport truck full of friendlies that's already been hit getting in the way of an RPG and someone gets autobanned... absolute BS. I don't care how rare it is, no one that makes a simple mistake should be automatically banned no matter how bad the mistake was.

Exactly. ****ing Bullshit. Especially with AT mines when your team is utterly careless. I could much more understand RPG or IED although undecided on instant permaban for that either.

Edited by Nicirin

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Posted (edited)

All this being said. I love Squad and I really thank all the devs for their hard time put into the game :D. Mines are new, there will be problems. I just really hope this one gets fixed sooner than later because I love playing scout! But I hate being occasionally banned for being so good nobody can see my mines! lol

Edited by Nicirin

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Posted (edited)

On 12/05/2017 at 10:23 AM, Major Trouble said:

Perhaps the TK message should say how the death was caused.

 

Eg

xxxxx was team killed with AT mine @ 200m.

xxxxx was team killed with frag grenade @ 10m.

xxxxx was team killed with pistol @ 2m.

 

Then admins and SLs can make a better judgment on if the tk was intensional or not.

 

Very good idea, and the range of the teamkiller is definitely something to add. If he was 200 meters when his mine teamkilled another squad, it wasn't on purpose (i think).

 

4 hours ago, PROTOCOL said:

Constantly typing in chat watch for friendly mines (yellow crossbones)

 

Oh that was mines ? :ph34r:

 

They should change it, simply put a mine icon on the map.

Edited by WorstNoobEVER
better look

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3 hours ago, Nicirin said:

This totally. I was babysitting my mines with voice proxy when they were way on the enemies side of the map (2nd flag). In a chokepoint no less, so they would most likely run through it and it worked on the enemy more than our own team. AND STILL our they got hit twice for a ban. ****ing incompetent. I was basically running around babysitting my mines to make sure our team didn't hit them than I was actually playing the game. Please fix this devs. I couldn't even voice communicate with my team because I AM SCOUT not SL. 

 

Yeah, current state is only conducive to negative discourse and unfair penalties weighted against scout for playing role w/o any negative intent.

 

I opened an issue/bug ticket "Moderate - potentially game breaking" citing experience and recommendations. With support, we can hope to see an update/change/fix in the next patch. I'd encourage others to open a similar ticket if they agree a change is needed here. More likelihood a DEV will review vs forum topic:  Bug Report Form

 

 

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So far it appears the compulsory auto-ban script is the problem here, seems like it'd be solved by making it a toggle and/or making X tks ping the admins that can ask questions from there.

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Solution - don't use scout class. HAHAHA

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Auto-ban should be OFF for Mines, then people will learn to read the map when they get blown up after 5 times. I always write in teamchat that a mine is down, yet sitll people run over it -_-

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5 hours ago, -MG said:

I always write in teamchat that a mine is down, yet sitll people run over it -_-

 

That's a great and very informative. Maybe there should be an auto message for friendlies.

 

Xxxx planted a mine in XX - check your map.

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10 hours ago, DiesALot said:

So far it appears the compulsory auto-ban script is the problem here, seems like it'd be solved by making it a toggle and/or making X tks ping the admins that can ask questions from there.

 

Not really, that's a symptom of the root cause for mass mine TKs without intent. TKs by mine (unintentional and caused by driver not mine owner). If your stupid enough to "shoot" your teammates over and over you probably should be banned as its most likely a conscious decision/act. Whereas, death by mine is caused by person stupid enough to ignore friendly mine marked on map with a loaded vehicle. This should be a suicide event, address the root cause not the symptom. 

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Posted (edited)

Coming from PR, I can agree with the driver getting the TK. No matter what, friendlies will run over mines by mistake. There are so many things happening, that many people forget about them. The rule is this; the closer you place a mine by a friendly spawn, the more likely it will be hit by a friendly and not an enemy. The miner should be aware of this even when they make chat announcements about a mine, and people driving around should be aware there may be mines in the area that will TK them.

 

I don't think either party should be harshly punished. The only time it calls for that if a mine is in your main base entrance. However, having the driver get the TK points helps make them take a minute to look at the map for mines.

 

EXPECT your team to run over them. Even 10 years later, people complain in PR about friendlies running over mines. "You placed it by friendlies!" "I marked it on the map!" and so on, and back and forth. Neither party is really wrong. Don't focus on the SHOULD or SHOULD NOT, focus on how you handle it. You have to balance the RISKS of where you put mines, and where you drive. It's part of war. But I definitely think drivers getting the TK points is a step in the right direction as drivers have much more motivation to look for mine markers.

Edited by Cavazos

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If being in a vehicle gave you a small GPS like it does in PR, the mine issue would be greatly solved.

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