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Satire

Why are there no teamkilling messages when someone mass teamkills?

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Just wondering because I've never seen them show up - I know admins can see them but it makes it hard to report said players to admins when theyre offline

 

on a side note, wondering if people can drop a nade and then leave the server, like in project reality where people planted c4 on friendly choppers and then disconnected so the message wouldn't show up

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Team kill messages show up for the killer and admins.

Aside from in war, you don't know if a friendly has shot at you, until after the incident has happened or you see it yourself(Unless, this particular event killed you then you wont know at all), I see it helping prevent flaming and people going for revenge kills, making the situation worse. From my experiences in other games, when people have knowledge of the person killing them, they go for revenge or the server gets rowdy and start flaming chat.

Team killers are found out rather quickly, people generally find out the really bad tkers quickly and are reported pretty fast. In my experience as a server admin anyway. Disconnecting does not save TKers, TK's are recorded as is their Steam64ID. 
 

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2 hours ago, Dubs said:

Team kill messages show up for the killer and admins.

Aside from in war, you don't know if a friendly has shot at you, until after the incident has happened or you see it yourself(Unless, this particular event killed you then you wont know at all), I see it helping prevent flaming and people going for revenge kills, making the situation worse. From my experiences in other games, when people have knowledge of the person killing them, they go for revenge or the server gets rowdy and start flaming chat.

Team killers are found out rather quickly, people generally find out the really bad tkers quickly and are reported pretty fast. In my experience as a server admin anyway. Disconnecting does not save TKers, TK's are recorded as is their Steam64ID. 
 

I feel the message for yourself committing a Team Kill should be MUCH bigger and visible. I mowed down a whole squad on my team in a humvee mounted gun, because I did not see name tags(known issue with mounted guns and distance I hear). I didn't notice the little small message till after 5+ TK's in seconds. Then I was kicked/banned basically. Was within my first 10hours of the game roughly.

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4 hours ago, Dubs said:

From my experiences in other games, when people have knowledge of the person killing them, they go for revenge or the server gets rowdy and start flaming chat.

Maybe on Call of Duty, in more mature games like PR and SQUAD if you make a mistake you say sorry, or maybe not, but it's very important to understand if you are under friendly fire. I really dont' want waste time searching for enemies that shot me before while I've been shot by FF, it's stupid.

 

In my opinion teamkilling/ friendly damaging messages have to be visible to everyone.

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Well, how about showing the name to everyone in the team, just not to the victim ?

That way mass-TKs can easily get spotted but revenge killing is still less likely.

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Its hard to report mass teamkillers to admins when there are no admins on

 

I tried reporting 2 mass teamkillers who teamkilled 14 people in spawn with grenades today on separate occasions but without screenshots of the incidents or even a console log I got no response even when I contacted the server owners on their website. The admins probably didn't bother logging on and reading through logs for 5 minutes to ban two people and the report i sent basically got buried in a pile of other random messages talking about food and whatever which is sad. 

 

If you give people less accountability for their actions it usually doesn't work out well, such as in Red Orchestra 2 where people were abusing the votekick/mapvote system to try and kick people they disliked on the enemy team for false reasons until the developers showed who initiated the vote which got the abuser votekicked and helped the potential admins online see who was abusing the system.

Edited by Satire

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"The problem is that it also gives TKers an easy way to avoid taking responsibility. Especially now with mortars, a really noob mortar crew can keep hitting friendlies and then just stay quiet and let their friends think it was an enemy mortar.

You aren't going to get retaliated against if you sincerely apologise and it's just one accidental teamkill. As it stands, very few people apologise for TKs unless they think people saw them do it."
 

 

Edited by Satire

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We really need tools for the players like vote-kick and a "Forgive/Punish" system, so that servers can continue functioning without a complete reliance on admins.

 

For "Forgive/Punish" system: Upon being teamkilled, a player can choose to forgive or punish their killer. Once someone receives 2 or 3 punishes they are removed from the game, either by being kicked or temporarily banned for a short amount of time. The temp ban would only need to be long enough to discourage any more FF. If a longer ban time is needed an admin can take care of it at a later time.

This would encourage speaking up when you've accidentally teamkilled and maybe even going to find a medic to make things right, since you'd want the person to hit forgive.

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On 5/9/2017 at 8:27 AM, Flat896 said:

We really need tools for the players like vote-kick and a "Forgive/Punish" system, so that servers can continue functioning without a complete reliance on admins.

 

For "Forgive/Punish" system: Upon being teamkilled, a player can choose to forgive or punish their killer. Once someone receives 2 or 3 punishes they are removed from the game, either by being kicked or temporarily banned for a short amount of time. The temp ban would only need to be long enough to discourage any more FF. If a longer ban time is needed an admin can take care of it at a later time.

This would encourage speaking up when you've accidentally teamkilled and maybe even going to find a medic to make things right, since you'd want the person to hit forgive.

 

+1

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better than the vote kick system in project reality which took 23 people to vote and was easily abusable (and also no teamkill limit in project reality letting one person teamkill 50 people) and potentially better than the autokick system we have right now which lets people teamkill up to 8 people before getting kicked off a server for one round (since theres no forgive/punish function, then the teamkill limit has to be set higher than in other games with a forgive punish function such as the red orchestra series)

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"If the argument is to make it harder to distinguish friend or foe and therefor harder to notice when friendly fire happens, then I don't understand why the nametags are visible in the first place.

Having TKs shown would make spotting, avoiding and removing teamkillers a much easier process.

It can take quite a while before people notice that someone is doing teamkills and then often enough a confusion starts as to who is actually doing them. Sometimes leading to the "wrong" person getting counter-TKed which makes everything even worse."

 

Edited by Satire

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Bigger question. Why doesn't it notify WHO teamkills me if I get teamkilled. As far as I'm aware, only the teamkiller is notified of whom they kill.

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19 hours ago, Satire said:

 

Having TKs shown would make spotting, avoiding and removing teamkillers a much easier process.

 

No, it doesn't. All that would allow if for easier revenge killing by the player killed or his friends. Admins have all the information they need to identify and remove team killers. We have a team kill feed. I see every team kill and suicide when in game. The problem is sorting out accidents from deliberate actions. But nothing is going to fix that so we just have to put in the work. 

1 hour ago, FeatherSton3 said:

Bigger question. Why doesn't it notify WHO teamkills me if I get teamkilled. As far as I'm aware, only the teamkiller is notified of whom they kill.

So you don't go and rage at the guy or try to get revenge against him. As a player you should assume it was an enemy and keep playing the game.

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7 minutes ago, PolishKruk said:

So you don't go and rage at the guy or try to get revenge against him. As a player you should assume it was an enemy and keep playing the game.

Sorry, but terrible response. I would personally like to know so I can get them banned. I am not a rage player. Being notified when someone teamkills you is the quickest way to get toxic players/trolls banned. This annoys me. I know it wasn't an enemy when he's two feet away

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I would personally like to see a new separate permission added for showing teamkills instead of linking it to the kick permission. That way I can give whitelisted players permission to see teamkills but not have permission to kick players. I can trust my whitelisted players to not go hunting for revenge teamkills and I would like to make it easy for them to report intentional TKs.

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On 5/8/2017 at 5:22 AM, Satire said:

The admins probably didn't bother logging on and reading through logs for 5 minutes to ban two people

Thats because if the admins get on after the teamkill happened, the console doesn't show who did it. The admin tools for this game are a half finished skeleton of what they should be.

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I am strongly in favour of the punish system, but imho it'd be better to have it based on doing damage to friendlies rather than outright killing them and have the person be killed instead of kicked.
For example, you do damage to 5 friendlies and they all click Punish(or whatever). You get killed(suicide) with a 2 minute spawn timer.
If you get euthanised like this by your teammates 3 times in one round, you get a 2 hour ban.

Why I think this is better than kicking people after 3 punished TKs.
1. You may kill 3 teammates with a bad grenade = kick. Pretty lame.
2. A particularly clever(not really) griefer could just keep shooting people's legs and let them bandage themselves = never gets found out. Lame af.
3. Measured response. For new, rather than actual toxic players, a timeout after 5 teamhits is a better learning device than being outright kicked.
4. It's easier to see when someone is just careless or if he's intentionally killing friendlies until they die.

On top of that, if there was then a tracker of how many times a player was "2h banned from a server" visible across all servers to all admins, that'd be the ideal state.

EDIT: The punish button needs to be a shortcut. Something like Ctrl+P or something.

Edited by Peerun

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More or less with you on that,  Peerun. At least the principle of punishing the player whilst limiting the impact for others, and allowing for a learning experience for genuine mistakes rather than punitive measures that may not be justified or useful.

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On 2017-5-16 at 10:43 AM, homfri said:

Thats because if the admins get on after the teamkill happened, the console doesn't show who did it. The admin tools for this game are a half finished skeleton of what they should be.

wow even worse than i thought

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