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41 members have voted

  1. 1. You may select more than one option:

    • Good ideas in general.
      17
    • I don't like it.
      1
    • Too complicated.
      5
    • Not for Squad. Maybe a mod.
      3
    • I'd like to try it out before making my decision.
      7
    • I liked the section about Non-combatants
      0
    • I liked the section about Civvie Homes.
      0
    • I liked the section about Insurgent officers.
      0
    • I liked the section about Caches.
      0
    • I liked the section about Workshops.
      1
    • I liked the section about Hideouts.
      0
    • I liked the section about Insurgent spawn points.
      0
    • I liked the section about Ammo Dead-drops.
      0


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VpUakGH.jpg
 Image depicting a squad's cache and workshop, surrounding limited spawn-points (observe how one has zero spawns left), a civilian and his nearby home, a disgruntled civilian and his hideout, a weapons dead-drop.
 
Non-combatants


 
U5KvCy8.jpg?1
 
All insurgent players spawn in as civilians, with the exception of insurgent officers.

For players to get weapons and become a militant, they must access a weapons cache. They will be considered militant once they access a cache.
 
If a civilian picks up an abandoned weapon, he can be considered militant and shot. The civilian does not receive an armband like other cases of civilians linked to insurgency.

BLUFOR can collect and dispose of weapons found on corpses or abandoned weapons. This should reduce the chance that civilians arm themselves.
 
Arresting a civilian using a picked-up weapon will not return intel towards a cache. He is not released after arrest like other cases of civilian arrest and the player is forced to respawn. The civilian loses any hideouts, home, cellphone he may have had.
 
Civilians are not penalized for being arrested. If they are arrested, they must sit idle for one minute as though being interrogated, after which, they are released. No cache intel is gained from non-combatants.
 
Civilians can be loaded into a vehicle and relocated while arrested.
 
They may also be dragged while arrested. This is for cases of civilians blocking Blufor.
 
Civilians who come within 2 meters of Blufor CP deployables or vehicles can be permanently arrested. The civilian is forced to respawn. No cache intel is gained. The civilian loses any hideouts, home, cellphone he may have had. (Ambushing civilians or hunting them with vehicles is possible, but that only affects insurgent spawn tickets in the end.)

 
Civilian vehicles are limited to one active vehicle per player at a time. Once the vehicle has been destroyed, a new one may spawn at his home only when the player respawns.
 
A civilian may not be arrested more than once within a 5 minute period.
 
Civilians who have been arrested 3 times become disgruntled.
 
Disgruntled civilians are able to deploy hideouts, which must be built. The civilian is able to build it himself.
 
Any civilian owning a hideout may be arrested as a militant if it is compromised.

 
Civilians who come within 2 meters of a cache will (for 2 minutes) receive an arm-band and can be arrested for cache intel.
 
Blufor lose 20 team tickets if a civilian is killed.
 
Blufor players who kill civilians are punished by the game.

 

 

Civilian homes


 
NuLc1uw.png?1
 
Civilian homes are part of the civilian microsystem. Officers are excluded.
 
Each time an insurgent spawns, he is assigned a new "home" at a random location. It shows up on his map alone.
 
No players share the same home.
 
A player can go to his home for a few things:

  • A fancy cellphone which the player can use to provide video feed to his faction.
  • A vehicle, which spawns when he arrives, ranging from motorcycles to medium trucks. A home may only spawn a vehicle once.
  • If he is a militant, he becomes civilian after 1 minute and his weapons are lost.
  • Medical treatment.

Civilians may use their cellphone to "transmit" video to insurgent networks. Insurgent commanders who wish to view the feed can use their own phone. This will not be picture-in-picture. The civilian becomes the pilot of his cellphone. Viewers see the video like a passenger in a UAV. They cannot control the camera, but can request for the civilian to point it at another direction.
 
Though civilians arrested while filming receive a mere one-minute time-out, care must be taken.

  • After 10 arrests of filming civilians, Blufor gains information on the current location of the insurgent commander (if there is one).
  • This will still occur even when it is the same civilian being arrested.
  • Insurgents can counter this by relocating the commander.
  • This is only valid for civilians arrested while filming.
  • Insurgents will not be notified that Blufor has received intel on the commander's location.
  • If the commander is in a hideout, the hideout becomes compromised.

Note: One of the reasons for implementing civilian homes is to create infantry/vehicle traffic that is not directly related to caches. This noise factor would function as a distraction from militant activity.
If a civilian goes to his home, BLUFOR has no certainty of why he is there. It could be a cache, a dead-drop, or a civilian picking up his car.
Militants can also use their homes as safe haven when operating alone. i.e Sapper
 

 

Insurgent officers


 
iwKH14T.png?1
 
Insurgent officers always have a special officer band on their arm, no matter which kit they happen to be wearing.
 
Officers are forced to spawn. They may not hide from combat by not spawning. Care should be taken to choose where to spawn before the game chooses a random spawn point.
 
If a civilian becomes an officer, the band appears automatically. If the player resigns as officer, the arm-band and officer-arrest/death penalties will persist for 2 minutes before disappearing. This can be reduced to 1 minute by entering a hideout.
 
Officers may drop weapons caches for their squad, provided their squad does not already have one.

 
Officers will generate 1 spawn ticket for a nearby spawn point every minute, prioritizing depleted spawn points. This represents the officer's influence on locals.
 
Insurgent commanders generate 1 spawn ticket for 3 nearby spawn points every minute, prioritizing depleted spawn points. This represents the commander's influence on locals.
 
Officers are responsible for

  • cache security (if they have a squad cache).
  • managing expenditure and recovery of cache resources.
  • the design and supervision of squad missions and objectives.
  • intelligence gathering in coordination with civilians and other officers.
  • managing deployables (which includes workshops).

Officers who are killed

  • cause three spawn points in the vicinity to immediately lose 5 spawn tickets for a total of 15 spawn tickets, prioritizing full spawn points.
  • lose their ability to generate local spawn tickets points for 2 minutes.

Officers who are arrested 

  • cause six spawn points in the vicinity to immediately lose 5 spawn tickets for a total of 30 spawn tickets, prioritizing full spawn points.
  • provide intel towards an unknown cache after 5 minutes.
  • cause any hideouts in the vicinity to become compromised after 5 minutes. The civilian owners become marked with an arm-band and can be arrested for cache intel.
  • lose their ability to generate local spawn tickets for 5 minutes.

Commanders who are killed

  • cause three spawn points in the vicinity to immediately lose 15 spawn tickets for a total of 45 spawn tickets, prioritizing full spawn points.
  • lose their ability to generate local spawn tickets for 5 minutes.

Commanders who are arrested 

  • cause six spawn points in the vicinity to immediately lose 15 spawn tickets for a total of 90 spawn tickets, prioritizing full spawn points.
  • provide intel towards all unknown caches after 5 minutes.
  • cause all hideouts on the map to become compromised after 5 minutes. The civilian owners become marked with an arm-band and can be arrested for cache intel.
  • lose their ability to generate local spawn tickets for 10 minutes.

 

Caches


 
MJJykXy.png?1
 
Each cache has a value of 30 team tickets.
 
An insurgent team without a cache deployed on the map loses one team ticket every minute.
 
Caches represent a permanent pledge to occupy that area.
 
Every squad is able to host their own cache, but is not required to do so.
 
Only officers can deploy weapons caches.
 
Officers can lock or unlock caches belonging to his squad (This affects workshops in the area of his squad's cache.). A locked cache/workshop only supplies members of his squad. This is for cases where a squad does not want an excess of traffic to/from their cache.

 
A locked cache will show a lock symbol on it.
 
Players can not spawn on caches.
 
Caches have a limited supply of resource points towards ammo, weapons, & deployables, and must be rearmed to not risk their expiration. Expiration occurs when all of that cache's resource points have been depleted.
 
Each cache displays the amount of resource it contains when accessed.
 
A weapons cache which has expired (through consumption of all its resource points) counts towards cache destruction, but only by half value (15 team tickets). This penalty represents insurgent inability to maintain control of the area, assumably because Blufor is blocking dead-drops from reaching the cache.
 
Caches can be rearmed through dead-drop crates, infantry ammo satchels (worth a grenade, bandage, etc.), and ammo (from ammo techies) resupplied from other caches.
 
Caches may not be undeployed.
 
Caches locations are never automatically placed on the map for Blufor. Arrested militants will give up cache locations as map coordinates. The cache intel is received 5 minutes after a militant is arrested to simulate interrogation.

 
Non-officers arrested while marked with an arm-band will provide the same cache intel that a militant does (Officers carry heavier arrest penalties.).
 
Killing militants does not help towards receiving a cache location. However, insurgents should observe that they do not have unlimited spawns.
 
Caches may be found and destroyed through simple search and destroy missions.


 

Workshops


 
TCvuPoc.png?1
 
Workshops can be set up within 100 meters of caches for the purposes of vehicle weaponization (including bombs), rearmament, and repair.
 
Ammo techies can load their ammo crates from workshops. It consumes cache resources, but allows militants to rearm without having to return to the cache every time. Weapons and kits cannot be obtained from ammo crates.
 
Any vehicle recovered from civilian homes can be adapted, but some weapons may not be compatible with certain vehicles.
 
Known forms of weaponization and the times required are:

  • .50 caliber gun (2 minutes)
  • Rocket pod (2 minutes)
  • AA gun (3 minutes)
  • Rifle caliber machine gun (1 minute)
  • Artillery shells for bomb vehicles (2 minutes)
  • SPG launcher (2 minutes)

Each item created consumes resources from the cache. Cost varies depending on the item produced.
 
Only one vehicle can be adapted for weapons at a time, but multiple vehicles can rearm simultaneously.
 
In this manner, insurgents can tailor warfare to their necessities.
 
A driver can drive to a workshop and select his preference of available weapons which is then installed on the vehicle after a period of time.
 
Weaponizing and rearming vehicles consume cache resources. Vehicle repair does not affect the cache.
 
Total cache resources are visible when interacting with the workshop to help avoiding cache expiration.
 
Civilians who drive weaponized vehicles or vehicles carrying militant supplies of any sort are marked with an arm-band and can be arrested for cache intel. This persists for 2 minutes after having abandoned the vehicle.

 

Hideouts


 
wOq9cQN.png?1
 
Different from PR, hideouts are safe havens exclusively for militants, officers, or civilians who are marked with an arm-band, but not spawn points.
 
They are deployed only by disgruntled civilians, representing their interest in directly supporting insurgent forces.

 
Hideouts are inaccessible and invisible to Blufor by default.
 
Hideouts are trapdoors which lead "underground" (vehicle class?). Militants who enter them can hide.
 
Militants in a hideout receive a choice of whether to leave as a civilian or continue as a militant. Officers do not receive that choice.
 
It takes a minimum of 1 minute for militants to be able to exit as civilian.

 
Insurgent medics can operate in a hideout to slowly heal wounded militants. It takes 2 minutes to fully restore a player to "healed" condition in a hideout.
 
Wounded and bleeding militants who enter a hideout will not receive an option to exit as a civilian unless they have been healed.
 
If a militant is arrested or engages in combat within 5 meters of a hideout, it becomes compromised.
 
A compromised hideout becomes accessible to Blufor. The civilian who deployed the hideout receives a militant arm-band and can be arrested as a militant.
 
Hideouts that have been compromised may be demolished by Blufor independent of its occupants. Any occupants inside are considered arrested and will provide intel towards a single unknown cache.
 
If the owner of the hideout dies, the hideout will disappear within 2 minutes. Any occupants will be alerted shortly before being expelled.

 
Commanders are allowed to use video feeds from civilians while inside a hideout.
 

 

Insurgent Spawn points


 
Insurgent spawn points are not deployable. They are randomly scattered across the map, invisible to Blufor.
 
Spawn points represent the population of local people affiliated to the insurgency.
 
Each spawn point contains 30 spawn tickets by default. Every player who spawns consumes a spawn ticket from that spawn point.
 
If a civilian is killed by Blufor, a nearby insurgent spawn point is replenished to its full capacity, prioritizing depleted spawn points. This represents local community resentment against BLUFOR and increased support for insurgents.
 
If a civilian is killed by, or in close proximity to militants, a nearby insurgent spawn point loses all its spawn tickets, prioritizing full spawn points. This represents local community resentment against insurgents.
 
A spawn point which is depleted may not be used again until spawn tickets are replenished by officer regeneration, or through local community reaction to civilian death by Blufor.
 
Spawn points can be overrun by Blufor and will be available again 2 minutes after Blufor has left.
 

 

Weapon/Ammunition dead-drops


 
1npGxrW.png?2
 
Ammo dead-drops show up on insurgent maps as markers. They represent foreign military support.
 
They appear periodically in random locations around the map.
 
Insurgent vehicles must stop within the marker's zone, this triggers the spawning of a collection of crates. After a set duration, the crates disappear and the vehicle gains "loaded" status.
 
Some vehicles have limited cargo capacity so some crates may be left behind and can be collected by other vehicles.
 
Blufor is able to destroy spawned crates with no penalty to Opfor beyond the loss of the crates.
 
The munitions picked up from the crates are useless unless delivered to a cache.
 
Once a vehicle is within 10 meters of a cache, it may drop its crates.
 
After a set duration, the crate is absorbed into the cache and disappears. The amount of resource points in the crates dropped at the cache will replenish the cache by that amount.
 
Crates can also be dropped off at workshops and will rearm the nearest cache.
 
Civilians driving ammo transports are marked with an arm band and can be arrested for cache intel. They may not be killed without penalty. They will be marked with an arm-band for two minutes after having completed the delivery.

 

 

Victory conditions
 
USKtJn1.png?2
 
Blufor wins if all insurgent team tickets reach zero, or if all insurgent spawn points reach zero spawn tickets.
 
Insurgents win by depleting all Blufor team tickets, or if the match runs out of time.
 

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Really interesting ideas here! Overall looks interesting... it needs good UI or something where all is explained well (cause it have some complexity in it, but insurgency is also like that in PR). I like idea about cache resupply and community resentment for spawn places! But I don't understand hideouts. Are they just for militant/civilian conversion or serve also as spawn point?

 

I will try to bring some positive criticism:

  • I don't think many will use video feed system or "home" - as in PR, many will opt to go fighting instead using civilian kits. Will it be justified to be made then? Could comms be used instead of video feed system?
  • BLUFOR will simply harass civilians too much - they will see any civilian as potential militant so way not arrest them on sight? OK, many civilians get to be disgruntled and gets the right to build hideout. Hideout have to be build by shovels? Of another civilians? I guess hideouts are gonna be near caches so militants can fall back easily. So there will be also resupply route near? That would make a lot of activity and BLUFOR will just proceed to arrest them as usual. They would compromise hideout without even knowing it. So, hideout isn't that much of a deal, they are mainly concerned about insurgent officer. Only he can drop cache and he is marked by 5 min mark. So, for him, there is not much use of hideout. He have two main concerns: to attack BLUFOR or defend another cache. Yet, to be combat effective, he needs militants. Militants need cache near them (when they respawn as civis, they have to go back to cache and arm them self). So, why not to just create cache? But how far is he gonna stray away from cache he created? That is also crucial for combat aspect of his squad?
  • It might get too easy for BLUFOR - Lets say there is current system of 9 squads: most of them will just drop cache, nearby civilians will join squad and start to fight. Too many caches laying around at same time.

Just some thoughts... maybe I just didn't understand concept tough... :D

 

PS. when i first started to read it, it was without color...color version is much nicer to comprehend :) Good presentation of idea!

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1) I don't understand hideouts. Are they just for militant/civilian conversion or serve also as spawn point?

 

2) Hideout have to be build by shovels? Of another civilians?

 

3) BLUFOR will simply harass civilians too much - they will see any civilian as potential militant so way not arrest them on sight? OK, many civilians get to be disgruntled and gets the right to build hideout. 

1) The purpose for hideouts is to allow militants (who would possibly be arrested and give up the location of their cache) a chance to make a get-away. BLUFOR can spend an eternity hoping to stumble on a cache and arresting militants is a valuable thing to do. If a breacher takes an insurgent out with his bean-bag shot, there goes intel on his cache. If he's wounded and being chased, he can slip into a hideout and be safe. They aren't supposed to be spawn points.

 

2) They can be built by disgruntled civilians.

 

3) I'm actually more concerned that BLUFOR will not arrest civilians at all. That is why they get a very obnoxious thing such as video feed.

 

BLUFOR really doesn't get anything out of arresting civilians. Civilians just sit there for a minute and they leave. BLUFOR can only stop them from filming and even then, it's only for a short while. They probably shouldn't be able to spam arrest the same civilian over and over. The guy should probably get at least a few minutes break before he can get arrested again.

 

I don't think many will use video feed system or "home" - as in PR, many will opt to go fighting instead using civilian kits. Will it be justified to be made then? Could comms be used instead of video feed system?

Home is where the civilian can pick up his fancy phone and film the enemy. It's not a combat activity and provides live intel. It's the insurgent drone. The civilian can be arrested a dozen times and still keep filming.

 

One of the reasons behind [giving a civilian a random "home" to go to] is to create noise.

As it is now, whenever you spot any of the insurgent population, you know a cache is probably in the area. When civilians go to their homes, they create traffic in places that have nothing to do with caches.

 

"Home" also allows civilians to immediately build hideouts once they are arrested. A civilian who has not gone "home" will not have a cellphone and must be arrested 3 times before being able to deploy a hideout.

 

 

An Insurgent officer has two main concerns: to attack BLUFOR or defend another cache. Yet, to be combat effective, he needs militants. Militants need cache near them (when they respawn as civis, they have to go back to cache and arm them self). So, why not to just create cache? But how far is he gonna stray away from cache he created? That is also crucial for combat aspect of his squad? It might get too easy for BLUFOR - Lets say there is current system of 9 squads: most of them will just drop cache, nearby civilians will join squad and start to fight. Too many caches laying around at same time.

 

Paraphrased: Wouldn't it be too easy for BLUFOR? What if Insurgent squad leaders put down too many caches because they want to make it easy for their squad members to get weapons? Or what if they are careless with their caches?

I understand your concern.

 

That is entirely up to the the team, the team's squad leaders and their plans.

 

If a squad leader wants to put out IEDs on a main road, he may want to deploy a cache so all his buddies can get ammo/kits.

Maybe he doesn't need one for his squad and he will use somebody else's cache to get kits and take his squad to attack by car?

Maybe the whole team decides to only have one cache and everyone defends it.

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Sounds like one of does bad Arma 3 RPG gamemodes with added complexion.

I didn't mention much about insurgent combat, so it does look like there is no fighting. In reality, not much has changed as far as combat goes, except that militants can be arrested for intel instead of civilians.

 

I've just changed a few variables and reduced the chance of getting spawn-raped at a hideout

 

The insurgent mission to destroy Blufor still remains.

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Sounds interesting if awfully complex (not that its impossible just that it would be hard to communicate all this info to a new player) but i would like to see the insurgency gamemode return in one form or another. 

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Sounds interesting if awfully complex (not that its impossible just that it would be hard to communicate all this info to a new player) but i would like to see the insurgency gamemode return in one form or another. 

 

 I think they will include PRs insurgency definitely. At least in beginning...then it might morph to something like this :D i hope... there are some cool ideas here (again :) )! And congrats for presentation again! I really like that filter you use... what is that? (pics are really nice)

 

ok...let me try again with that positive criticism: :)

  • Is insurgent officer always squad leader? If he select from start civilian, is he arm-banded?
  • Only militants can be arrested for info? OK, what if no one select militant role and (i assume squad leader always have arm-band) squad leaders hide? Insurgents can just wait for end of round? Hm... i like it... there some Gandhi philosophy right there :)

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  • Only militants can be arrested for info? OK, what if no one select militant role and (i assume squad leader always have arm-band) squad leaders hide? Insurgents can just wait for end of round? Hm... i like it... there some Gandhi philosophy right there :)

 

 Then there would be noone to defend the cache, and as when there is no cache on the map the insurgent team bleeds tickets.

Its actually quite a neat idea, each cache is worth tickets so you dont want to pepper the map with them so that they become easy to find but have only one and your team will start bleeding tickets if its found and destroyed this would take time but the conventional forces wouldnt be suffering ticket losses from deaths if theres noone resisting cause even if there was militants they would have a harder time resupplying with only a single cache (and the increased traffic to this one area would draw attention, might need some tweaking of the numbers ofc.

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 Then there would be noone to defend the cache, and as when there is no cache on the map the insurgent team bleeds tickets.

...

Yes, I missed that! Sorry!

 

But lets say they deployed minimum amount of caches (and what's minimum btw?) and they just walk away...point is, they don't have to fight... they can just wait for end of round?

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Yes, I missed that! Sorry!

 

But lets say they deployed minimum amount of caches (and what's minimum btw?) and they just walk away...point is, they don't have to fight... they can just wait for end of round?

1 is minimum i believe if i understood the post right, depending on the size of the map this might present more or less of a problem, it might be that if the round is long enough the blufor has more than enough time to search every building in the map and use scouthelos and jeeps to search the open ground since they are unopposed, the real problem would be that it would be really boring, so something would have to be done to prevent this.

 

 

 

EDIT: After reading Muffris post i guess all players staying civs and doing nothing would be unlikely as they would be just as bored as the Blufor. In the end the only way to be sure is to put it into practice =D.

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1 is minimum i believe if i understood the post right, depending on the size of the map this might present more or less of a problem, it might be that if the round is long enough the blufor has more than enough time to search every building in the map and use scout helos and jeeps to search the open ground since they are unopposed, the real problem would be that it would be really boring, so something would have to be done to prevent this.

 

OK, what if no one select militant role and (i assume squad leader always have arm-band) squad leaders hide? Insurgents can just wait for end of round? Hm... i like it... there some Gandhi philosophy right there  :)

Technically in PR as it is now, if all the insurgents stayed at main once the first (free) cache is destroyed, Insurgents will win.

 

No intel is gathered, so the caches never spawn as known caches. Wait 4 hours. Insurgents win.

 

It has never happened in the history of the game, though.

 

The insurgent officers will decide when and where they will deploy caches. If they all decide to use one cache, more power to them.

 

 

Is insurgent officer always squad leader? If he select from start civilian, is he arm-banded?

Yes. Someone has to wage war.

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Technically in PR as it is now, if all the insurgents stayed at main once the first (free) cache is destroyed, Insurgents will win.

 

No intel is gathered, so the caches never spawn as known caches. Wait 4 hours. Insurgents win.

 

It has never happened in the history of the game, though.

 

The insurgent officers will decide when and where they will deploy caches. If they all decide to use one cache, more power to them.

 

Yes. Someone has to wage war.

 

 

Good point there :)

 

Hm...wait, maybe include some time before next cache is displayed for BLUFOR? That would ensure that insurgents are trying to defend...

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Like he said, 

 

 ... might need some tweaking of the numbers ofc.

 

The amount of tickets lost per minute when there are no caches on the map is just a number. It can be raised or lowered depending on gameplay feedback.

 

In PR, the CnC mode drastically depletes tickets from teams who have no FOB on the map. The amount of tickets taken away are so significant that teams are certain to lose the match if they are slow to replace their FOB.

 

 

I really like that filter you use... what is that?

 

https://dreamscopeapp.com/

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Really in depth post with a lot of consideration towards meta-gaming. In the end I feel it's something people would need to get their hands on to see how viable some of the mechanics are. It might be an intel-fest, or it might be extremely difficult. Balancing the average ticket cost per cache for Bluefor (in a winning situation) will be something needed considered strongly, even more so that we now need to consider the ticket cost of INS. It's really hard to say if there is balance when it's just on paper.

 

Not a bad idea at all.

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Updated - Officer/commander spawn ticket regeneration, officer/commander death/arrest penalties.

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This sounds really fun, but would be incredibly hard to implement, and not to mention would take the entire afternoon to finish a single round

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This sounds really fun, but would be incredibly hard to implement, and not to mention would take the entire afternoon to finish a single round

 

Insurgents automatically win if the time limit has expired. This has happened many times.

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Insurgents automatically win if the time limit has expired. This has happened many times.

 

Speaking of, I'm a fan of the 2 hour time limit. The standard 4 hours in PR was way too long in my opinion.

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Speaking of, I'm a fan of the 2 hour time limit. The standard 4 hours in PR was way too long in my opinion.

 

Then you will be pleased with Squad's version, where it isnt just the same amount of tickets and time across all maps/ map sizes, layers, layouts and factions. We will tailor it to the mission. 

This is first iteration, values may we way off, but fortunately that is what we have all you alpha testers there for, the ones intend on helping us by persisting through less than stellar first iterations new initiatives.

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I want to play, but my PC slaps me in the face. Running at 800x600. O.o

 

That's unfortunate man. Are you looking to upgrade soon?

 

Sounds like you went for a budget build back then. Your FX-4300 wasn't even keeping up with the Intel offerings back in 2012.

51141.png

 

I hope you can play with the rest of us soon MuffriDer. :)

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