madcat768

Suicide is OK but killing downed players is not

We Cant Kill Each Other so we have to kill ourselves?

[The concept of getting the other team to kill themselves more seems strange and almost a little sick compared to killing downed players.] 

As someone who wants players to die for good more often if I cannot kill them for good myself i find this hypocritical. "Giving Up" is less ethical than killing a downed player. Either way i know this has been said before on the forums about not being able to kill incapacitated players because its unethical and its not what they want for the game. The give up buttons should go. I thought I would just point that out.... but more to the point of why I believe downed players should be killed (I know it will not happen)  I feel the current respawn system, if not changed, will increase the longevity of a squad beyond what it should realistically handle once aerial vehicles are implemented. Being able to kill downed players would be a solution I think but there may be other options.

 

Squads Will Last Unrealistically Long in Engagements Purely from The Air

I agree and think that is fine, not being able to kill downed players but something should change later. Hopefully bombs and plane bullets kill people dead. I don't know if they plan on implementing anything but currently you can not kill any enemies really at all?! And  Leaves me questioning what good an airstrike will ever do unless it is to support a friendly infantry advancement to the enemy's "previous" position. (Its not previous until you actually send people there to kill their rally for good or they may be able to stay their indefinitely unless the bomber "incapacitates" the medics and the SL at the same time along with their rally point, start praying its not indoors or the air vehicles will start having to worry about the enemy shooting them down one 9mm round at a time). That is ridiculous. I hope that this will change soon so I do not have to kill myself as much anymore. (sarcasm here) ¬¬

 

 

I would love it if the aircraft could make more of a difference without the need for friendly ground units to make sure the enemy doesn't raise from the dead on the same position over and over again. 

 

Some Options:

1)Remove Rallies once transport choppers are implemented, they are needed for advancement now, i feel, but with air insertion they will just be a way for the enemy squad to stay on a location for unrealistic amount of engagement unless the other team moves into their position. Rally points are too quick to slap down and stay there. FOBs take time and they are a structure you can see and not able to hide it in a single bush.

2) Guns on the Aerial Support Vehicles send bullets to the earth's core and back

3)Downed players can get dead by other means than suicide [i know its not happening]

4)Players don't get downed as often, just more dead

 

Does anyone else agree? 

Edited by madcat768

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I can agree with downed players being arrested and therefore being 'killed'. It would take a bit of time just like it takes medics to revive players a bit of time, but would take the player out of commission. I think that makes sense and adds some good gameplay depth. It would need to be long though like you're simulating searching the enemy for any weapons or bombs like a real detaining situation.

 

This also adds importance to the future planned dragging your wounded buddy away mechanic. There you have a good reason to drag squad mates away, because then the enemy can secure them.

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I like the idea of captures and return to FOB.  But think it should be only be SLs that should be captured. if you  can get them back to a fob  you could get say 10 tickets. With a time limit of 3 mins.  The SL still would be able to assess his map , so still has something they can do.  But if gives in before the 3 mins automatically gives away 5 tickets. Most SL should be able to deal with ir,  and could bring some interesting game play.

 

With regard to the average player/newbie it could be a massive off put.

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Capturing still requires friendly ground units to physically be on the enemies position doing nothing for air still but if they add it I think you would need 2 people to carry the prisoner. Or 1 person to drag. And when you capture an SL and bring him back to your FOB i agree think it should give tickets but possibly information of their positions on the maps currently for a short time or maybe a screen shot kind of thing?

 

Edited by madcat768

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18 hours ago, SgtRoss said:

We already have weapons that will kill you in a one shot, just an FYI.

my mistake, thank you. 

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I agree that current incap and revive mechanics can be "gamed" to some extent. Some immediate scenarios that I can think of:

- You bait squad members to take info, instead of properly clearing areas for enemies. Why bother checking those corners with some team mates in that building, its more effective to rush through the whole building fast alone, get killed, relay info that there is an enemy stuck in second floor of your building, squad mates come and clear him out, then you get revived almost as if nothing happened. Youll be -1 bandage, and youll have a timer that if you die within 2 minutes, youll perm-die. But I'm not sure if that's enough to de-incentivize this kind of baiting behavior I'm describing.

- if you die behind cover (inside a building or behind a ridge line), you are practically guaranteed an easy revive, so playing positions like these might be unreasonably strong.

- Doing damage to enemy, and then getting wiped yourself within a few minutes, is next to doing no damage to the enemy at all, as he can revive most of the players you've downed.

Its a bit of a question of how hardcore the game wants to go. If we want real-life tactics to work in the game, then getting shot and falling to the ground needs to be a big deal, which it isn't currently, really. So we see people running towards the enemy, as its usually worth having a squad member just roaming around everywhere and probably dying, just to get info about the enemies whereabouts. 

 

Probably making a separate "hard core" game mode would be the solution for those looking for that kind of experience, but ideally one would be able to integrate aspects of that hardcore experience into the main game mode.

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I had a brain issue there and it somehow slipped my mind how most mounted guns on vehicles if not all of them kill in like 1 shot and so it would probably be the same for planes....

 

@plissken some pretty good points. yeah,it seems that is the direction the devs want to go but yeah I do find it annoying that if a whole enemy squad is a far distance away and moving, shooting at them has very little impact. And if they do not know you are there it is harmful to your team. If a hardcore mode was added I really think a large percentage (i think the majority) would just use that. I am starting to think the government actually pays Arma and other near millitary simulators actually not to make the game as true to life as it could be. Alot of those AI mods for arma3 that made the game more playable were probably made incompatible on purpose. Worried about some Ghadis using the game for training or something. 

 

To add With the coming of Air Transport I think that death could afford to be more of an issue and still keep it less "hard" in hardcore. What reason would there not to be? A squad gets wiped, as long as you account for anti air and get some security from attack helicopters or friendly jets, insertion would be quicker than even driving. What would be the problem? The parts now make more sense in their jobs. You have to angle your gun so bullets dont get shot into the ground in this game and death doesn't mean that much? Why if you can afford to? Just FOBs and heli transports would be more than enough to cut down on wait of reinsertion enough to take the "hardcore" out. Other parts will just have to pull their weight the way they would in real life.

 

If the same system is in place I feel transport helis will only be used during the beginning of the game. If their ticket value is higher than ground vehicles (probably will be) there wouldn't be much reason to use them all that much later in game at all. As rallies and FOBs will be up. And if the FOBs are placed well flanking would probably be best done with ground vehicles or even on foot. As anti air gets put in place and taking into account the current size of the maps.

 If death were an issue I think players would be forced to deal with anti air threats with more seriousness, like in real life. And work to find and destroy them. Whether enemy jets or SAMs. Like in real life. It would balance out just fine.

 

I am willing to argue that in these modern times a modern shooter that requires any amount of team work, planning or coordination is too hardcore for the large majority by far. Catering to those people and building a shooter that requires one of those elements will only bring the potential of the game down. Don't have to make it a simulator though. I for one dont care if bullets come directly from the gun barrel just that dyng in the game has consequences. And that the game can emulate real strategy. It maybe would even take the same amount of work. Yep im convinced the government is paying people off.

 

 Thanks uncle sam for hurting my dreams of virtually dying realistically in wars for crude oil. I ll hop on later today and probably kill myself some more. (Sarcasm) No, I really do love the game a ton though. Armas too screwed up and no where else have I found so many people actually wanting to work together online. Best community in a tactical game I have ever seen. Thanks for all the hard work devs. 

 

Edited by madcat768

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