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MilosV

What do you currently dislike about Squad and how would you change it?

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I really really want weapon resting.

I think it'd help round out infantry combat.

And maybe open/closeable/destructable doors.

Wald

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The game often dissolves into a meatgrinder, resembling more the trench warfare of WW1 than depicting a modern conflict. The spawning is one of the culprits behind it. The unlimited Rally Points ensure that a firefight can drag on forever. FOBs on objectives is like a never ending wasp nest that takes ages to get rid of. The flow of the game is honestly horrid.

One way to fix this would be to have spawning (outside of main) cost ammo points. The wasp nest FOBs would eventually die if they can't resuply it. Limit the Rally Points, let SLs carry one RP at a time, but have the ability to resuply a new RP at FOBs and vehicles (since they now carry ammo points).

I think this would make a match have its ups and downs, move back and fourth, instead of the meatgrinder at one location for the whole duration of the match.

I know the devs are looking into the spawning mechanics and I have faith that they will deliver a satisfying end product, but in its current form (and due to me having played it a lot), I find Squad somewhat unplayable.

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35 minutes ago, Gaius Marius said:

The game often dissolves into a meatgrinder, resembling more the trench warfare of WW1 than depicting a modern conflict. The spawning is one of the culprits behind it. The unlimited Rally Points ensure that a firefight can drag on forever. FOBs on objectives is like a never ending wasp nest that takes ages to get rid of. The flow of the game is honestly horrid.

One way to fix this would be to have spawning (outside of main) cost ammo points. The wasp nest FOBs would eventually die if they can't resuply it. Limit the Rally Points, let SLs carry one RP at a time, but have the ability to resuply a new RP at FOBs and vehicles (since they now carry ammo points).

I think this would make a match have its ups and downs, move back and fourth, instead of the meatgrinder at one location for the whole duration of the match.

I know the devs are looking into the spawning mechanics and I have faith that they will deliver a satisfying end product, but in its current form (and due to me having played it a lot), I find Squad somewhat unplayable.

 

Good idea, but unrealistic due to the sorry state of the playerbase. People can't even handle Conquest or Insurgency game modes, and you expect them to keep moving along with fluid spawns? What will actually happen is that two-thirds of the squads will be wandering around at irrelevant locations and the rest will be constantly running APCs from Main to the contended flag, then abandoning them in the field

I agree that the mechanics could do with some tweaking, but the changes have to be completely idiot-proof. It's very easy to do more harm than good, and looks like the devs understand this very well.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, Gopblin said:

 

Good idea, but unrealistic due to the sorry state of the playerbase. People can't even handle Conquest or Insurgency game modes, and you expect them to keep moving along with fluid spawns? What will actually happen is that two-thirds of the squads will be wandering around at irrelevant locations and the rest will be constantly running APCs from Main to the contended flag, then abandoning them in the field

I agree that the mechanics could do with some tweaking, but the changes have to be completely idiot-proof. It's very easy to do more harm than good, and looks like the devs understand this very well.



Conquest is played a lot lately. Insurgency isn't because it's an even bigger meatgrinder due to the fact there's no wait time for spawning on caches and there's always a base close where you can get supplies as INS, which leads to superfobbing the cache compounds and having to bruteforce your way in.

What you're saying would happen is demonstrably false. APCs work fine now and for the most part aren't abandoned, yet you somehow arrive at the conclusion that if they were made more valuable as transport then that would change. Even though, if you look at how often they were being abandoned before FOBs were fixed - timer going up with enemies close - the reverse is true.

Also having 3 squads lost and wandering the map on foot not having fun is a good thing, not harm. As far as it makes them learn or drop the game.
The only harm that can be done is to the current playerbase, not potential playerbase.

So, since I've already shown you how your point is wrong, there's only two ways I can look at this. Either you consider yourself the one that would wander about the map on foot or waste assets, in which case you don't want that changed, because you would have to adapt to it   or   you are trying to speak for someone else. Which is it?

Edited by Peerun

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Peerun said:



Conquest is played a lot lately. Insurgency isn't because it's an even bigger meatgrinder due to the fact there's no wait time for spawning on caches and there's always a base close where you can get supplies as INS, which leads to superfobbing the cache compounds and having to bruteforce your way in.

What you're saying would happen is demonstrably false. APCs work fine now and for the most part aren't abandoned, yet you somehow arrive at the conclusion that if they were made more valuable as transport then that would change. Even though, if you look at how often they were being abandoned before FOBs were fixed - timer going up with enemies close - the reverse is true.

Also having 3 squads lost and wandering the map on foot not having fun is a good thing, not harm. As far as it makes them learn or drop the game.
The only harm that can be done is to the current playerbase, not potential playerbase.

So, since I've already shown you how your point is wrong, there's only two ways I can look at this. Either you consider yourself the one that would wander about the map on foot or waste assets, in which case you don't want that changed, because you would have to adapt to it   or   you are trying to speak for someone else. Which is it?

 

1. Really? Go in the server browser and check the percentage of populated servers that are running Conquest maps. How high is it? 5%? 3%? Less? Does that count as "a lot" in your book?

2. Insurgency mode requires attackers to actually play objectives and move around. It's the same gameplay you want, except way less demanding. And at least half the time, they fail to do it, which is why the game mode isn't popular. Heck, pretty often the INS fail to spawn and defend the newly created cache because they're all crowded on the other one.
This, and the lack of popularity of Conquest, shows that "mobile" gameplay you want will not work with the current playerbase

3. The idea of making the game even less accessible to weed out the newbies might have some merit from a player's standpoint, but it definitely won't make sense to the devs.
Their goal isn't to cater to the hardcore playerbase, but to make a game that a large audience can enjoy. If you want something tailored to a tight community of hardcore players, go play a mod... or pay the dev's salaries yourself for the next 3 years while they make the game for you. Sorry, but that's capitalism. 

4. As to your question - see above. I'm just as frustrated as you by the ineptitude of a large chunk of the playerbase, but I understand that any suggested changes to the meta must take that into account. Otherwise Squad will probably die within the year because new ppl won't buy the game. Maybe if Squad also adds tools that help new players learn the game better (such as much better tutorials, or a  Friends/"communicate outside of of matches"/"join-server-together" system that it so desperately needs), then severely limiting spawn options would be more feasible

Edited by Gopblin

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1 hour ago, Gopblin said:

...


You're only using the worst examples. If one out of ten games I play now is Conquest, then it's played a lot more than when it was one out of a hundred.
I really don't see what your problem is with the sentiment. 
FOBs have been "fixed", but I still find myself camping HABs.
Ammo resupply from vehicles has been added, but I still find it's more effective to throw more barrels on a point from a rally point. Statistics win in Squad, exactly because of, as you say "inept playerbase", but current spawn system only contributes to that.
You can't expect the game to be more easy to understand, if you introduce more abstractions.
By changing the spawn meta you cull the playerbase based on mentality not ability.

 

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I guess I could also use some examples

In other words, jumping into a vehicle to get to the fight is not abstract.
Having to keep enemies a certain distance away from an FOB to avoid a bigger spawn timer is an abstraction.
Clearing entrenched enemy positions is common sense.
Having a person sit inside a bunker, while another digs it down is the most contrived, gamey mechanic you could imagine and something that you have to learn and which isn't instantly obvious to be the most efficient thing.

Once you've learned it and someone cries "spawn camping" you're liable to laugh at that. But when you actually think about it, that sentence, although infused with salt makes a lot of sense.
What is the purpose of spawning on a HAB and being killed? Exactly, that's why you don't generally spawn on a camped HAB, right? Why allow it at all then?
There's instances where you spawn in, kill the camper and clear the area. Why is that a thing? A player spawning in thin air, inside a hesco bunker, killing a player who's there waiting for him? Doesn't really make any kind of sense, as per gameplay, without the context of, well the context of whatever.
In fact, the rest of the game mechanics being moderately sane, you wouldn't expect that to be a thing.
Yet it is, and there's a whole lot of other things that don't make a speck of sense.

But that's why the game is in Alpha.

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Posted (edited)

I know the game isn't about other parts of the world where there is no conflict.

 

But I make me sad to never see these places, I really would like to see more greener maps. All that grey kills me.

 

Reason why post scriptum is so attractive. Feels like home.

Edited by Bonnie Money

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IRL if you wanted to deny the enemy a base and it's reinforcements, you'd surround it, deny resupply, then kill or capture who is left. The same should happen in game, starving it's outside resupply should deplete it of respawns, or close proximity should instantly stop respawns. Spawn killing should be impossible unless you are at range. I also hate the mini game of digging HABs while people respawn. 

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Posted (edited)

I dislike:

 

-The fact that you can shoot someone in the chest twice, and the forearm once, and they are still able to accurately return fire and kill you because they have good reflexes. Really realistic out of 10.

 

-The shooting/movement mechanics are actually pretty bad imo. You can bunny hop out of situations where you are being engaged at medium to long range. You can zigzag in shootouts or escape a shootout like a crackhead with no penalty to speed or movement. Strafing left and right in shootouts is highly cancerous and unrealistic... switching strafing directions needs a massive movement penalty because of this.

 

-The suppression mechanic is broken, as in it is almost entirely ineffective against experienced players... can't tell you how many times I've gone full auto with a deployed mg, just to have the guy snapshot me while 30+ rounds are flying a foot over his head.

 

-Going prone after running has unrealistic amounts of sway... IRL you can almost immediately 100% stabilize a rifle after going prone, regardless of how fatigued you are or.

 

-Rifles have no real bullet-spread and are too accurate. Being able to one-shot plink someone in the face from 300m+ with an ak-74/47 is highly unrealistic. IRL you'd be banking on a dice roll to even touch the entire upper body of someone with an ak, firing military grade ammo from that range, even with optics.

Edited by stickNmove

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Posted (edited)

Maybe very simple and maybe  mentioned more , what I don't like and better said experience as annoying is that when you get picked to be Squadleader by a Squadleader who quits you not get to know this until someone tells you. By than you are somewhere in the map without even the SL kit far away from any ammocrate. It feels dumb.

 

So better would be that the SL who quits and pick a player also hand out the kit.

Edited by Drecks
As i am dumb.

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Posted (edited)
  • A larger notification (maybe center screen) when you become SL if the current SL leaves
  • A speaker symbol on the map on any of your squad members that are currently talking
  • A separate logo for Rifleman with scope that differs from the normal Rifleman (so you don't get bullied into taking Medic just so another member can take the scoped Rifleman role)
  • A 'vote of no confidence' system where you can vote your squad leader out of the squad if he is completely useless/AFK etc

 

But by far my biggest issue with SQUAD is this:  http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/31649-videos-still-getting-jittery-aim-in-v11-with-some-scopesmaps/ If this was fixed the game would be near perfect.

 

Edited by RipGroove

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54 minutes ago, Drecks said:

Maybe very simple and maybe  mentioned more , what I don't like and better said experience as annoying is that when you get picked to be Squadleader by a Squadleader who quits you not get to know this until someone tells you. By than you are somewhere in the map without even the SL kit far away from any ammocrate. It feels dumb.

 

So better would be that the SL who quits and pick a player also hand out the kit.

In the old, old days, when a SL handed it off, the new SL got the kit, which seems like a good idea, except it immediately led to people exploiting it. For example, half of your squad gets wiped on one side of a cap and you lose your rally, but you have a couple of guys on the other side. You make one SL, they drop a rally, you all spawn in, and he hands it back. This was also a good way to get from one side of the map to another, from one cap to another etc. You could mitigate this by making it impossible to drop a rally for X minutes. 

 

If this was the case, and I think it's an idea that should be revisited, as well as something that should be added anyway, you should be able to REFUSE the SL role. A dialog should pop up "Drecks wants to promote you to SL, do you accept?" Otherwise, you'd now become SL and lose whatever kit you had before, since someone else would snap it up. 

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I think the only thing really missing from squad right now is a semi-mandatory interactive tutorial that is fun and shows new players the deal. even if it takes them an hour and a half to complete. maybe makes them an E3 from an E1. 

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Or add a delay to recieve the kit. Now one need to get to an ammopoint.

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Posted (edited)

What I don't like:

  • Galaxy brain squad leaders 90% of the time. The safe, conservative, smart thing to do is stupid. Let's drive a logi with no support into the equidistant flag to build a super FOB and get obliterated by a Stryker immediately instead. Defend the flank? No, let's do a pincer attack over an open field on the side of the map with no flags on it.  Then when the initial play inevitably fails, lets run back and forth between flags as they get lost/neutralized without ever actually making it to the action.

What I would do about it:

  • Maybe the game needs a commander position to organize the squads.
Edited by Graphic

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On 2018/5/29 at 4:06 PM, Graphic said:

What I don't like:

  • Galaxy brain squad leaders 90% of the time. The safe, conservative, smart thing to do is stupid. Let's drive a logi with no support into the equidistant flag to build a super FOB and get obliterated by a Stryker immediately instead. Defend the flank? No, let's do a pincer attack over an open field on the side of the map with no flags on it.  Then when the initial play inevitably fails, lets run back and forth between flags as they get lost/neutralized without ever actually making it to the action.

What I would do about it:

  • Maybe the game needs a commander position to organize the squads.

What makes you think that the commander won’t be an idiot and that the squad leaders will listen to him?

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4 hours ago, fatalsushi said:

What makes you think that the commander won’t be an idiot and that the squad leaders will listen to him?

He has a proven track record of being a top commander through long hours on the battlefield shown by his career stats next to his profile. :)

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16 hours ago, XRobinson said:

He has a proven track record of being a top commander through long hours on the battlefield shown by his career stats next to his profile. :)

Really going with forum post count elitism?

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Posted (edited)

Greenish tint and dirt on scopes on tanks and sights in general. For balance reasons (everything balanced this way sucks!). Please remove it.

Tank optics IRL are EXTREMELY GOOD. No tint going on I know first hand.

Edited by SpecialAgentJohnson

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Also I don't like map balance-o-mania. Silly fog, silly houses facing nowhere, trees always in your eyes, no good strategic firing positions, . Infantry-only style game.

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