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Can Server Admins forbidden SL to Rush the first Flag

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Honestly I consider CS:GO to be the legitimate benchmark for how a FPS should function because all the rules are intrinsically built into the game itself. That said, if enough people want rushing the first cap disabled, no roadblocking, no camping main, no BTR's on Chakar after 5pm on Sundays and squads to only be labeled APC, MRT, LOGI & INF then they should lobby the devs and it should programmed into the game.

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Peerun   

Servers which forbid rushing the enemy's first flag have this rule in the server name and if you fail to notice that, you still get a warning before getting kicked. These servers are labeled as noob friendly.

My own opinion. I don't feel like it's really helping anyone. On the other hand server owners should be able to set their own rules. Agree to disagree, would be my suggestion.

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Seems like you guys are missing the point here. It's not a question of if forbidding rushes is a good or bad thing. The question was "if admins can forbid things" to which the answer is "yeah, obviously the can! it's their server, they can do whatever they like". end of story, bare with it or find yourself another server.

 

P.S. just to be clear, personally neither like the idea of "no first flag rush", nor any kind of restriction that cripples the ruse of war element of the game.

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3 hours ago, bravo2zero said:

 The question was "if admins can forbid things" to which the answer is "yeah, obviously the can! it's their server, they can do whatever they like". end of story, bare with it or find yourself another server.

Actually servers can't "do whatever they like"... They must follow the OWI official server license guidelines and not add any supplemental rules that counter those guidelines in any way.

 

Case in point, my kid and I like to form a locked two man squad to run a Stryer/BTR/HUMVEE. Server guidelines say squad leaders can kick anyone at anytime for any unspecified reason so logically with the addition of locked squads that means we can run a 2 person APC squad and be completely within the Squad rule set.

 

That's simply not the case though. Numerous times now I've had admins from servers I'm not going to name here insist that I unlock our squad with threats of kick/ban which is really kind of odd because I've been told by an admin on another popular server that we actually needed to be in a locked 2 man squad specifically named APC in order to do our thing. Confusing? Yes, very.

 

You see where I'm going with this? There's simply no consistency in Squad unless the rules are built into the game itself. 

 

And in my defense I've asked devs about these issues and was politely told that they weren't going to micromanage this gray area.

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1 hour ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Actually servers can't "do whatever they like"... They must follow the OWI official server license guidelines and not add any supplemental rules that counter those guidelines in any way.

 

Case in point, my kid and I like to form a locked two man squad to run a Stryer/BTR/HUMVEE. Server guidelines say squad leaders can kick anyone at anytime for any unspecified reason so logically with the addition of locked squads that means we can run a 2 person APC squad and be completely within the Squad rule set.

 

That's simply not the case though. Numerous times now I've had admins from servers I'm not going to name here insist that I unlock our squad with threats of kick/ban which is really kind of odd because I've been told by an admin on another popular server that we actually needed to be in a locked 2 man squad specifically named APC in order to do our thing. Confusing? Yes, very.

 

You see where I'm going with this? There's simply no consistency in Squad unless the rules are built into the game itself. 

 

And in my defense I've asked devs about these issues and was politely told that they weren't going to micromanage this gray area.

 

Have you read the server admin guidelines? They can do exactly what you just complained about...

 

Quote

Admins are allowed to enforce a server wide rule disallowing locked squads if they so choose. If the server does this, it should be clearly displayed in their server rules and players should be warned for violating this rule before any action would be taken against them.

 

Here's the guidelines, I suggest going through them:

http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/7849-game-server-administration-guidelines/

Edited by DoctorKamikaze

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1 hour ago, DoctorKamikaze said:

 

Have you read the server admin guidelines? They can do exactly what you just complained about...

 

 

Here's the guidelines, I suggest going through them:

http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/7849-game-server-administration-guidelines/

So the guidelines that says a squad leader can kick anyone anytime is gone now? Good to know. I guess I should pay more attention huh?

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10 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

So the guidelines that says a squad leader can kick anyone anytime is gone now? Good to know. I guess I should pay more attention huh?

 

Nope still there. Still a guideline. That has nothing to do with your complaints about not being able to lock squads on some servers. Stop selectively choosing parts of the guidelines you like.

 

Kick all you want, if they don't want you locking squads as a part of their rules, then you will get warned/kicked for locking squads.

 

 

Quote

Squad leaders should be free to kick members of their squad for any reason they choose.

 

Edited by DoctorKamikaze

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12 minutes ago, DoctorKamikaze said:

 

Nope still there. Still a guideline. That has nothing to do with your complaints about not being able to lock squads on some servers. Stop selectively choosing parts of the guidelines you like.

 

Kick all you want, if they don't want you locking squads as a part of their rules, then you will get warned/kicked for locking squads.

 

 

 

It's not a matter of me liking or disliking the guidelines I'm sorry if you think that. I'm simply trying to understand guidelines that seemingly contridict one another. On one hand as a squad leader I have supreme and infinite control over who is in my squad however on the other hand I can't use a tool the game provides to streamline and facilitate that process if a server makes a supplemental rules restricting it. Furthermore a server can also require me to form a squad and lock it which also contridicts the initial squad leader directive.

 

So yeah, I was under the impression that locked squads were implemented into Squad as a natural segue that allowed groups of players that are friends or even family like in my case to focus on specific tasks, missions and objectives. 

 

Is that not correct? Were locked squads created for another purpose?

 

 

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zarenx   

not rushing the first flag has been a rule since for ever in many servers on BF2 and on PRBF2. it balances the start out abit so the inferior team can have a chance of doing something in the start instead of just getting killed. this rule also prevents servers from being de-populated. i personally thinks it is a great rule and so does by the looks of it 90% of the community aswell.:)

Edited by zarenx

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4 minutes ago, zarenx said:

not rushing the first flag has been a rule since for ever in many servers on BF2 and on PRBF2. it balances the start out abit so the inferior team can have a chance of doing something in the start instead of just getting killed. this rule also prevents servers from being de-populated. i personally thinks it is a great rule and so does by the looks of it 90% of the community aswell.:)

What BF2 were you playing?

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zarenx   
7 minutes ago, _randombullet said:

What BF2 were you playing?

normal bf2, i think i played since the start. cant remember

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zarenx   
1 minute ago, _randombullet said:

I played since day one, from pubs to high end comp games and never saw a no rush rule. Maybe that was a PR thing.

was admin on the tv2 servers on BF2 for people remembering those. also admin for PRTA and Alwaysbased on PRBF2

 

yeah, might have been that. im proberbly mixing up the game and the mod :P 

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Peerun   
4 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

It's not a matter of me liking or disliking the guidelines I'm sorry if you think that. I'm simply trying to understand guidelines that seemingly contridict one another. On one hand as a squad leader I have supreme and infinite control over who is in my squad however on the other hand I can't use a tool the game provides to streamline and facilitate that process if a server makes a supplemental rules restricting it. Furthermore a server can also require me to form a squad and lock it which also contridicts the initial squad leader directive.

 

So yeah, I was under the impression that locked squads were implemented into Squad as a natural segue that allowed groups of players that are friends or even family like in my case to focus on specific tasks, missions and objectives. 

 

Is that not correct? Were locked squads created for another purpose?


You are looking at it from the wrong end. The guidelines are there for the server admins to abide by, not for players to nitpick from. The guidlines are made in such a way, that a player doesn't need to read them, because there'll be a warning from the admins if he does something that warrants an action.
You can't argue about what the guideline says, because you aren't bound by them. Admins are.
Your whole argument is turned on it's head and can be summarized as this.

Theft is illegal. My friend want to borrow my car and I gave him consent to do so and handed him the keys. While he was parked at a gas pump and went to the toilet I rode to the car on a bike and because I didn't have the keys I couldn't get in. My friend had them in his pocket. So I called the police to open the car.

In other words, by entering the server you are agreeing to the rules of that server. This is made possible by the guidelines. You can always join a different one, there's enough of them.

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2 hours ago, Peerun said:


You are looking at it from the wrong end. The guidelines are there for the server admins to abide by, not for players to nitpick from. The guidlines are made in such a way, that a player doesn't need to read them, because there'll be a warning from the admins if he does something that warrants an action.
You can't argue about what the guideline says, because you aren't bound by them. Admins are.
Your whole argument is turned on it's head and can be summarized as this.

Theft is illegal. My friend want to borrow my car and I gave him consent to do so and handed him the keys. While he was parked at a gas pump and went to the toilet I rode to the car on a bike and because I didn't have the keys I couldn't get in. My friend had them in his pocket. So I called the police to open the car.

In other words, by entering the server you are agreeing to the rules of that server. This is made possible by the guidelines. You can always join a different one, there's enough of them.

"Squad leaders should be free to kick members of their squad for any reason they choose."

 

Well let me ask you this then. Does this guideline that was around from the beginning long before locked squad still stand? If so, isn't locking squads just an extension of controlling who, what, when and why other players are in your squad? If not, just like I asked DoctorKamikaze then what exactly is the purpose of locking your squad if not to control who enters it which according to the first directive is ultimately the squad leaders choice?

 

 

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8 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

"Squad leaders should be free to kick members of their squad for any reason they choose."

 

Well let me ask you this then. Does this guideline that was around from the beginning long before locked squad still stand? If so, isn't locking squads just an extension of controlling who, what, when and why other players are in your squad? If not, just like I asked DoctorKamikaze then what exactly is the purpose of locking your squad if not to control who enters it which according to the first directive is ultimately the squad leaders choice?

 

As with all rules, they tend to work better if you follow them word-for-word instead of trying to figure out their various implications - that way you leave less room for misconceptions. This one seems absolutely clear to me and has nothing to do with locking, it simply tells the server owners that they should allow squad leaders to kick players from their squads without subjecting them to some form of scrutiny. It was in the guidelines way before locking ever made it to squad, it's even possible that the guidelines haven't even been updated with squad locking in mind yet.

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3 hours ago, MultiSquid said:

 

As with all rules, they tend to work better if you follow them word-for-word instead of trying to figure out their various implications - that way you leave less room for misconceptions. This one seems absolutely clear to me and has nothing to do with locking, it simply tells the server owners that they should allow squad leaders to kick players from their squads without subjecting them to some form of scrutiny. It was in the guidelines way before locking ever made it to squad, it's even possible that the guidelines haven't even been updated with squad locking in mind yet.

 

This exactly. The two are complementary to each other, not orthogonal.

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3 hours ago, MultiSquid said:

 

As with all rules, they tend to work better if you follow them word-for-word instead of trying to figure out their various implications - that way you leave less room for misconceptions.

Interesting viewpoint because logically speaking why else would squad locking be implemented into the game if not to allow a squad leader to control who is in his/her squad?

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5 minutes ago, DoctorKamikaze said:

 

This exactly. The two are complementary to each other, not orthogonal.

I see. Then you do agree with me and so logically servers have no business telling anyone they can't lock their squad or compelling them to limit it to a set amount and lock it either. This isn't a logic puzzle. I'll ask you again what is the purpose of squad locking if not to assist the squad leader in the first guideline which is they ultimately control who is in their squad? 

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3 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

... I'll ask you again what is the purpose of squad locking if not to assist the squad leader in the first guideline which is they ultimately control who is in their squad? 

So we can have logi, mortar and other specialized squad´s. Also you sure do have the right as a server owner/host to set the rules. In PR most servers had the exact rules like we have on some servers ins Squad now: Don´t lock inf Squad until X members joined. You can lock every asset squad however you want though.

 

(Most servers in PR even had/have rules that you need to name the squad after the asset you want to use, otherwise you are not allowed to use something like a tank)

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Just now, koschilein said:

So we can have logi, mortar and other specialized squad´s.

Yeah thats my inference as well, but where is the official stated reason for locked squads? Here is the only official statement I've ever seen regarding the implementation of locked squads. Please correct me if I'm wrong and point me to any other official information regarding locked squads.

 

"The wait is over! It is now possible to lock squads. We urge veteran players to not lock themselves away from the community at large, especially during times of influx."

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zarenx   
16 minutes ago, koschilein said:

So we can have logi, mortar and other specialized squad´s. Also you sure do have the right as a server owner/host to set the rules. In PR most servers had the exact rules like we have on some servers ins Squad now: Don´t lock inf Squad until X members joined. You can lock every asset squad however you want though.

 

(Most servers in PR even had/have rules that you need to name the squad after the asset you want to use, otherwise you are not allowed to use something like a tank)

yes and what you have described have worked and been tested since PR was a mini-mod in BF2. that is almost for 12 years. 

12 minutes ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Yeah thats my inference as well, but where is the official stated reason for locked squads? Here is the only official statement I've ever seen regarding the implementation of locked squads. Please correct me if I'm wrong and point me to any other official information regarding locked squads.

 

"The wait is over! It is now possible to lock squads. We urge veteran players to not lock themselves away from the community at large, especially during times of influx."

locking squads will be much better than just have lets say 9 people in a tank squad which probably only needs 2-4 people. there are also rules in PR stating at what level you can start locking your squad. for example: you need 6 people in a infantry squad to lock, 4 people in a recon squad to lock and so on. it is up to all the server to decide this them self's and since the admin's and serverowners own and pay for the server they can choose to put what ever rule they want. but of course people are free to come with suggestions.

Edited by zarenx

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F$K   

Good communication between squad leaders, good stratergy and tactics will easily prevent the enemy stalling you at your first flag.

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