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Phadthai

The game's HAB, Fob system right now is kinda broken

(Sorry for bad english)

 

I feel like HAB,FOB, Rallypoint system needs nerf. because almost every map i see people rush logi and place fob behind enemy lines. Example like in OP first light. militia rush for railway and place fob there and the US just stuck there near their spawn cant advance to first flag.

    Spam fob ---> Human wave ---> Rush Flag    That how i feel about game right now.  Squad Tactics are kinda point less to be use in game because no matter how hard you try to be tactical, try to travel so far just to flank around. You lose to fob spams and human wave tactics that they just blindly run in straight lines and keep coming and rush into flag. really annoying for me.   

       We should limit fob to only2 or 3 on whole map. at least have punishing mechanics like increase spawn time 60+ seconds when enemies are near. but not completely blocked like PR. so to force players to place fobs in safe place behind their territory. make it very far just to run back to front lines. it will really improve firefight experiences. The game is exactly like battlefield with bigger maps that you can just place your own spawn points anywhere.

Edited by Phadthai

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5 minutes ago, bilsantu said:

Rush their rush.

LOL Phadthai, EXACTLY what I told you on our STEAM chat.

 

-topper

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4 hours ago, Phadthai said:

We should limit fob to only2 or 3 on whole map. at least have punishing mechanics like increase spawn time 60+ seconds when enemies are near.

 

No, go away. This doesn't even resolve the issue you're complaining about. Which isn't an issue at all. The opening flags on OP First Light are rush-vulnerable and you should move an appropriate amount of troops there to ensure you cap it.

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Quick overview how the system has changed:

 

Rally --> Rally& FOB (without activation time, fast respawn) --> Rally & FOB ( longer respawn time for both) --> Rally&FOB (FOB needs supplys to activate)

--> Rally&FOB&HAB (needs supplys in order to build a HAB that acts as spawnpoint).

 

There is much more on the todo list such as:

-picking up supplys from different FOBs (not main!)

-more emplacements (mortars, heli pad, ATGM,FLIR,...)

 

All the stuff is WIP so we will see mor changes with v.9x /v10

 

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I think it's funny how the devs were saying that it'll be harder to hide fobs and that people will have to stay on them and defend them, but now people still hide the fobs in bushes and place the habs as far away as possible to keep the fobs hidden. People still don't defend the fobs and don't seem to care that much about them compared to cap points. That's the trouble I see with the new system.

Edited by fatalsushi

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5 hours ago, fatalsushi said:

I think it's funny how the devs were saying that it'll be harder to hide fobs and that people will have to stay on them and defend them, but now people still hide the fobs in bushes and place the habs as far away as possible to keep the fobs hidden. People still don't defend the fobs and don't seem to care that much about them compared to cap points. That's the trouble I see with the new system.

 

It's not really a problem with the system. The problem is simply one of manpower: You can't have 5-6 guys just sitting on a FOB just in case some enemies drop by, because then you'll be outnumbered on the actual objectives.

 

Everybody, devs included, just needs to drop this notion that there's going to be these large, player-built bases that are manned and defended on the map. It just doesn't add up in any way. You can't have the manpower sitting idly on the FOB, you can't expend the construction time needed, and the FOBs won't be relevant for long enough to justify the expenditure in time and resources.

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8 minutes ago, Tartantyco said:

 

It's not really a problem with the system. The problem is simply one of manpower: You can't have 5-6 guys just sitting on a FOB just in case some enemies drop by, because then you'll be outnumbered on the actual objectives.

 

Everybody, devs included, just needs to drop this notion that there's going to be these large, player-built bases that are manned and defended on the map. It just doesn't add up in any way. You can't have the manpower sitting idly on the FOB, you can't expend the construction time needed, and the FOBs won't be relevant for long enough to justify the expenditure in time and resources.

I agree. Right now it's about which team can throw more bodies at an objective and then quickly cap the next one. I was saying it's a problem because it goes against what the devs are trying to do but I agree that the current meta doesn't make player manned bases viable.

Edited by fatalsushi

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6 hours ago, fatalsushi said:

I think it's funny how the devs were saying that it'll be harder to hide fobs and that people will have to stay on them and defend them, but now people still hide the fobs in bushes and place the habs as far away as possible to keep the fobs hidden. People still don't defend the fobs and don't seem to care that much about them compared to cap points. That's the trouble I see with the new system.

 

That's when the one random soldier comes along and stumbles across the FOB, ultimately removing the FOB/HAB for the other team. I tend to keep my radio/HAB combo somewhat close to each other to prevent exactly that scenario. 

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On 4/6/2017 at 10:05 AM, Tartantyco said:

 

It's not really a problem with the system. The problem is simply one of manpower: You can't have 5-6 guys just sitting on a FOB just in case some enemies drop by, because then you'll be outnumbered on the actual objectives.

 

Everybody, devs included, just needs to drop this notion that there's going to be these large, player-built bases that are manned and defended on the map. It just doesn't add up in any way. You can't have the manpower sitting idly on the FOB, you can't expend the construction time needed, and the FOBs won't be relevant for long enough to justify the expenditure in time and resources.

Agreed. In all my time playing PR the only FOBs I saw actively defended were either right on flags or were the mortar FOBs I made. Even then there wasn't a wave of construction going on, two mortar pits, an ATGM launcher and perhaps an HMG nest and an AA nest and that was it. No great wall of china to seal in an entire compound to become a fishbowl of death. Personally I hate where FOB deployables are at right now and think that FOBs have devolved a great deal from PR(yes I am quite aware that many mechanics are still missing).

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In my experience, nobody really wants to build a super FOB. There is little to no incentive to do so. Perhaps when we get mortars or some other team based capability that requires a force to stay and maintain a fob there will be that incentive to do so. Right now, the tempo is pretty fast. You either roll over them or get rolled over.

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I fail to see any issue beyond your guys sitting too long at the main base before moving on. A single squad should be sent to each point in sequential order to capture points so the enemy can't back cap you and stop you up at one cap and as soon as possible you move to where the frontline has been established. The beginning is a mad rush, and if you're not in a rush you will lose, end of story. 

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I really like the idea of limited FOB placements probably up to 3/4 per team or 1 per squad.

If you lost it, it will be gone forever. So really need to coordinate with other SLs to know which is the best spot to set up FOBs

This add some realism and team members will try to defend the FOB/radio at all cost if under attack.

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I think logi-trucks should not be available at the beginning. Let them spawn a bit later.

 

That should at least help against the early fob-rushes that can so easily break a round.

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The dev got something like "a magic discovery" : Fortification on hide, in insurgency mod was absolutely retarded". 
Maybe one day, they will have the same idea about flag and we will stop having 40vs40 men fighting in a 1km² part of the map with 2 HAB spaced from 500m each. 

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9 hours ago, Tajin said:

I think logi-trucks should not be available at the beginning. Let them spawn a bit later.

 

That should at least help against the early fob-rushes that can so easily break a round.

"Break a round"? Every game is a different battle simulation just like in real life so I've never played a round I considered "broken". Squad is like chess in the sense that you move around your assets & people according to a specific strategy and so big decisive opening moves can either be successful or disastrous depending on the opposition's response. 

 

I've seen rounds on Al Basrah where all the members of both teams met at Refinery or Village and slugged it out for over an hour and left all the other points were ignored. So yeah, to me the expansive maps and the non linear nature of the engagements allow for unpredictable results which is the most positive asset of Squad.

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On 15.5.2017 at 8:31 PM, Zylfrax791 said:

"Break a round"? Every game is a different battle simulation just like in real life so I've never played a round I considered "broken".

 

I'd normally agree but I've seen too many rounds that started with a very quick logi-rush to build an FOB on one of the very first enemy flags. That made it almost impossible for the opposing team to set foot on the map and even when they managed to take out that FOB, it usually slowed them down so much that the remaining round was completely unbalanced.

 

If done quick enough, then it is really hard to counter and it makes the round rather boring (hence "broken").

 

 

The thing that bothers me most is that this really makes no sense from a realistic point of view and I do normally enjoy squad for having somewhat realistic battles.

 

 

Now don't get me wrong, I don't mind having prolonged fights over the first flags and a rush there can be a good tactic.

I just don't like the whole: Drive a logi over there as fast as possible, with nothing more than a few people, put down a HAB and suddenly the whole team can spawn on it.

These spawnpoints are much to powerful to be available so early and easily.

 

I'd much rather see people actually having to fight hard to even be able to set up a FOB (or do it out of sight of the enemy). Getting such a huge advantage just because a few guys are quick in the first few minutes of the match seems wrong.

Edited by Tajin

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1 hour ago, Tajin said:

 

I'd normally agree but I've seen too many rounds that started with a very quick logi-rush to build an FOB on one of the very first enemy flags. That made it almost impossible for the opposing team to set foot on the map and even when they managed to take out that FOB, it usually slowed them down so much that the remaining round was completely unbalanced.

 

If done quick enough, then it is really hard to counter and it makes the round rather boring (hence "broken").

 

No, it's a perfectly valid strategy that your team should be using as well. And if an enemy squad can get to one of your first flags before you do and hold it against most of your team, your failure should have consequences.

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It is a cheap tactic that doesn't require much.

 

I've seen it used on a server as many as 8 times in a row!

As a result, a single squad doing this caused these 8 rounds to become incredibly boring. How is that good for anyone?

 

 

To be clear, I really don't mind loosing against a good tactic. Not at all, as long as the round stays interesting and fun to play.

> I'd much rather loose a tough fight than win one with cheesy methods like that.

 

 

21 hours ago, Valdr said:

if an enemy squad can get to one of your first flags before you do and hold it against most of your team, your failure should have consequences.

The thing is, they can ONLY hold it because FOBs can be built so early and quickly, even right under the enemies nose. Otherwise they wouldn't stand a chance.

Edited by Tajin

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On 5/18/2017 at 6:16 AM, Tajin said:

It is a cheap tactic that doesn't require much.

 

I've seen it used on a server as many as 8 times in a row!

As a result, a single squad doing this caused these 8 rounds to become incredibly boring. How is that good for anyone?

 

 

To be clear, I really don't mind loosing against a good tactic. Not at all, as long as the round stays interesting and fun to play.

> I'd much rather loose a tough fight than win one with cheesy methods like that.

 

 

The thing is, they can ONLY hold it because FOBs can be built so early and quickly, even right under the enemies nose. Otherwise they wouldn't stand a chance.

I don't think it's a cheap tactic considering the 3:1 ratio.

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2 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

I don't think it's a cheap tactic considering the 3:1 ratio.

 

Yeah it definitely seems like some people lost some rounds while on some bad teams and they are salty instead of stepping back and looking at this objectively. There is nothing that gives rushers an inherent advantage. They can get a FOB up quick? You can get one quicker. If they rush and they hold you at that first flag, you are witnessing a superior team beating an inferior team fair and square. It's that simple.

 

What's the point of finding effective strategies if we're just going to nerf everything and turn the game into a formulaic slog from A to B to C to D?

Edited by Valdr

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Like I said, I really don't mind a good, proper rush.

That is moving a suitable force quickly into position to hold off or distract the enemy. There is skill in that and that is perfectly fine.

 

What I don't like is a group of merely 3 people beeing able to put an FOB right under the nose of the enemy, just by being quick.

FOBs shouldn't be available so early on, or should at least be harder to build (or take longer to become active).

 

 

Or maybe add some sort of control-radius around each captured objective and a bigger radius around the HQ. FOBs would then only be able to be placed within that radius. (a control area like in "Steel Division: Normandy 44" would also work)

This shouldn't affect most tactics (if the radius around objectives is big enough) as you're still able to put FOBs in the flank of the enemy (just not far behind them) but it would require rushers to actually capture the flag, before they can start building their FOB there.

 

Here is an example how that might work.:

fob-system.jpg

You see the initial radius to place a FOB is fairly large, so you can make FOBs early on, just not close to the enemy.

Once you capture some flags you can move your FOBs closer. Of course the FOBs stay, even when their control-area is lost but maybe that would increase the spawntime on them.

Edited by Tajin
idea

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