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Togisan

Unbalanced Al Basrah

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The map is not unbalanced in general but there are a few cheesy tactics which can break the balance.

- Insurgents village rush (which was not possible in PR because BLUFOR arrives there about a minute earlier/ no first flag rush rule)

- Stryker&FOB on the bridge south west of insurgent main (not possible in PR because its not allowed to shoot in the DOD)

- Rocket arty spam out of insurgent main base (not possible in PR because its not allowed to shoot in/out of main base)

 

 

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I played about 10 rounds of Al Basrah AAS and PAAS. Expectations for how the map plays out before I tried it were completely opposite of how it really played out. We advanced trough urban environment and took each flag in no time (fast pace gameplay). One would think that all those floors and windows in the city would create the need to clear evey house and apartment block to advance. Playing as US or Insurgents, same. I also thought that one of the main flags will be that Firebase on the highway, but no fights were ever fought there in those 10 rounds, which is a shame. As it looks like an awesome spot for a flag to fight over and build a FOB and fortify it further.

For the fast pace nature of the map I am still not sure what is causing it. Last thing I want to do is "blame" the map design. Because I believe its not that, I really love the map, in my opinion its one of the best maps so far but it needs flags in different areas to make it better. The fast pace, no effort gameplay trough the city may be because of free weekend, and 90% of people unwilling to cooperate and 20% willing to only troll around. Or, it still may be due to game mechanics. Rally points, shooting mechanics, speed etc. I got faith that it will be tweaked, the Devs already made some good game mechanic tweaks to slow the game down, both in V8 and V9. Good stuff.

When we played US side on one of the rounds we blocked 1 of the 4 bridges (we had a Stryker aswell) and killed about 90 people while dying couple of times we were accused of "spawn trapping" the main base of insurgents. While the rest of the bridges were wide open for them to use. So, basically it was not a spawn trap, we were using the map layout strategicaly. One would think the idea is to tacticaly out-manuever/out smart the enemy. In this case we blocked one of the strategic bridges.  And then the blame starts. We felt like they were about to forbid us to use our rallies and weapons aswell, only showels allowed. Same goes with people that forbid players "rushing" first flags. Utter stupidity. It all kind of felt like this: 



Back to the map design, I really love the desert. Its featurless, no trees, bushes etc. But it feels so full and looks so good and realistic. Similiar stuff was done to Gorodok with V9. Devs removed some trees and bushes and created big beautiful open fields. Made the map more realistic. Made it into more tactical environment, instead of a bush or a tree up in your face where ever you move or look. What we tried and succeded (and I remember doing that in PR on Al Basrah) while playing on Insurgent side. I got 2 of my friends with me, they had LAT and HAT kits, me being the SL. We got our SPG-9 Technical, we would set up in the desert between Village flag and the city, and I would look around with the binoculars to spot US Strykers, HUMVEES and Trucks. Once spotted we would drive the Techy behind them shot the SPG into their rear, dismount the RPG gunners and finished them off in an instant.

Also, rushing the village flag with insurgents is fun too! We managed to hold out couple of rounds like that until the end. 

Edited by Rainmaker

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Hahahha i love when people talk about balance there is no such thing in real war and you want this game to be more realistic dont you (i know i want)

This map basically depends a lot not of your squad but your whole team i played it a lot on QFF server mostly and i won some and i lost some trust me i won more with insurgents then with the USA.

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Ok  after some play as a squad leader as my common role in the game, I'm changing my idea except last stage of the game if insurgents pressed on their last flags and base..If insurgents  succeed to cap fastly Suburbs, apartments, alley, mosque and refinery  at the opening stage of the game with their placement advantage and use their logi technicals with a good manner in order to create HABs  to some strategic points in the map with a high level communication..You can win also insurgents..Its up to SLs and squads, with them that you are cooperating, to win or loose..One last request , I kindly want to see the commander role in this game at V10 ..

Edited by Togisan

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I think balance is pretty good. PAAS is hard for insurgents due to the forward spawn and the way it encourages fob location to be obvious but AAS seems pretty even.

 

AAS

Village is important. If the US fail here early on it can be deciding.

Once US get a foothold in the city it can be pretty tough to get rid of them again if they use their long range vehicles wisely. Good supply of ammo for HAT can turn everything.

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After some time I can confidently say that IMO PAAS favours the insurgents considerably. US forces have a much harder fight on that map than anywhere else. INS can get a really nice defence going on Apartments and Gas station, with the 5 ticket bleed (from US only holding village) it's a race against the clock to capture Gas station and Apartments. If those two caps are defended well then it is very hard for US to win.

 

 

Edited by BLITZA

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We played Al Basrah map at last nights CCFN event, so pretty balanced sides - all clans.

 

A great match was had and we were fortunate to win both rounds, as Insurgents by 129 tickets and as USA by 19 tickets (from memory).

I can't think of a better way to test a maps balance than at CCFN, it was a hard fight all the way and pretty close.

This map is fine, it works great.

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I justed played a game on this map and they got to village at the same time as us and HATTED our striker with all of us in it but 1 one and then they got a FOB and kepted getting rockets. Moral of the story is they got us down to 290 tickets before we actually got inside villages capping zone. I think its far more insurget sided if anything

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I've been on both teams winning, losing, getting base raped e.t.c. Seems balanced to me, one of the best maps to be honest. I'm sure there could be improvements but I love it. It really depends on how much time is wasted at the very start of the round and if you have competent squad leaders.

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Yeah I don't think vehicles are a big advantage for US there, because the map is so urban. If anything, it feels more balanced in favor of insurgents, as long as they know what they're doing.

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The map still needs more testing and work I think. I've found that US rushing refinery is utterly broken if they're successful, but there's a metagame developing where the Insurgents smartly rush refinery, and if they fail they've figured out they need to attack from the north. This being said, the americans can counter this. I've noticed insurgent village rushes working, but once the players figure out how to properly leverage their superior range on the Stryker/CROWS they'll be able surround and destroy any insurgents rushing village.

 

Right now I think the map is in a very playable state, but I would like to see the city expanded out more, I think this would solve a lot of issues.

 

The apartments/gas station/refinery flags are pretty much just barren desert on two of their flanks (and river on a third for refinery) which really reduces the viable attack vectors. I think just expanding the city more into the desert surrounding refinery, apartments and gas station would really improve the map.

 

I know people love urban combat, why not fill the whole damn map with buildings? Or at least a lot more of it. You could have so many more flag layouts, and just new places to fight. As of now only like 1/4 of the map is ever in play.. This map is basically a direct copy of Al Basrah PR, which was made over 10 years ago on a free mod, it shows its age and its flaws, with a bigger city it would be a lot better.

Edited by 40mmrain

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19 hours ago, tatzhit said:

Yeah I don't think vehicles are a big advantage for US there, because the map is so urban. If anything, it feels more balanced in favor of insurgents, as long as they know what they're doing.


Wel, IRL APCs/tanks would be able to ride down the city. In Squad this will NEVER happen. Even with a full blown battletank with reactive armour plates or APC's with AT cages they won't make it long. Cuz Insurgents have unlimited amounts of rockets from ammo crates. Can you imagen then when AT mines are going to be put in with the unlimited AT and H-AT's ?. Yeah no....i don't think so lol.

Basrah is a very infantry like map, been quiet too oftne in a vehicle while getting 3 to 4 rockets shot at me at once.

 

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23 hours ago, -MG said:


Wel, IRL APCs/tanks would be able to ride down the city. In Squad this will NEVER happen. Even with a full blown battletank with reactive armour plates or APC's with AT cages they won't make it long. Cuz Insurgents have unlimited amounts of rockets from ammo crates. Can you imagen then when AT mines are going to be put in with the unlimited AT and H-AT's ?. Yeah no....i don't think so lol.

Basrah is a very infantry like map, been quiet too oftne in a vehicle while getting 3 to 4 rockets shot at me at once.

 

 

IRL APCs/tanks are probably in greater danger than in Squad. There's ATGMs, IEDs/mines, enemy traveling through hidden tunnels, 120mm mortars, etc.
If you watch videos from Syria, you will note that tanks operate by driving forward a bit to shell a designated objective (usually protected on both sides by friendly infantry), and then immediately retreat.

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At this point I've probably played around 40+ matches of nothing but Al Basrah since it came out. On the American side a Refinery rush can be successful but only if the Insurgents don't rush Village plus if the rest of your team actually caps the other points in order behind you while you're holding Refinery. On the other hand, the strategy of the Insurgents super fobbing a hi-rise in Courtyards or Suburbs seems to be mostly successful if its done right with access to the top floors being blocked off with wire and sandbags. Many of the games I played in as an Insurgent resulted in an eventual victory. On the American side the only tactic to counter this is long distance CROWS suppression to bleed tickets from kills. Driving any Humvees or Strykers down the main drag from north to south results in instant kills with multiple HAT's with unlimited ammo in the buildings.

 

Additional strategies for Insurgents include wolf packing the Humvees and Logis with multiple techies plus dropping a FOB & 2 repair stations next to the static one for the rocket techie for maximum reload times. Again, I simply can't understand why the Insurgent main base has no protection but if you get anywhere close to the American base you start taking damage. Anyone know why? 

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if the US manages to push all insurgent FOB's off the mainland, yes what you are referring to is correct OP - it can be VERY hard to get even a fighting chance of getting back over the bridges if the US watches all of them with superior firepower (CROWS/Strykers).

But that shouldn't really happen at all if the insurgents are playing correct the US cannot setup any vehicles inside the city. combat in a city will always favor the defenders.

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It's so dependant  on squad comms. If you get 1 squad (full,9)not pulling its weight your going to struggle.  Map intelligence rules, hi lighting stryker position will devisate the US. Where as insurgancy holing up in towers will punish they are not in flags. There are to many variables to say one thing wins. That's the beauty of this map.

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8 hours ago, tatzhit said:

 

IRL APCs/tanks are probably in greater danger than in Squad. There's ATGMs, IEDs/mines, enemy traveling through hidden tunnels, 120mm mortars, etc.
If you watch videos from Syria, you will note that tanks operate by driving forward a bit to shell a designated objective (usually protected on both sides by friendly infantry), and then immediately retreat.


That's true, now imagen all those at unlimited rate from ammo crates (y) i hope we get 155mm howtizers and drones to counter that as US faction.

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1 hour ago, spookyAUS said:

every time I have played insurgents I have won..... unbalanced me think not

 

Yeah, I see maybe 75% winrate for insurgents. Vehicles just aren't much of an advantage in a city, and good FOB placement (atop highrises) completely decimates the US because there's no way to advance up a blocked stairs with ammo crate up top. If insurgents hear digging, they just spam grenades over the barricade.

 

I love this map, and I think it's fine as is, but I wouldn't use it for competitions since it favors insurgents (in most of its iterations). The versions where US can cap 2 objectives at a time are more balanced.

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