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3S_Moe

Better pre-game planning stage

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I love this game, but my most frustrating time comes pre-game.  It is a hot mess.  I know it has been brought up in the past and I'm guessing that the current pre-game timer has already been lengthened but it is still too short most of the time.  With all the new vehicles coming in, more roles available and the maps getting bigger, you simply need more time to plan.  If you are a squad lead, it can be very difficult to communicate with other SL's to plan because of all the pre-game chatter in your squad and the short amount of time.  When you do finally spawn in, it is a mad rush for vehicles, hoping that you spawned close enough to the vehicle you were planning for to get their first.  If you don't get your intended vehicle then pre-game planning goes out the window and you end up with squad members left at main having to walk long distances.  Then you become "that squad" that didn't do what they said they were going to do despite your best efforts and spawn confusion.

 

I'm sure there are tons of ways to solve these issues and I wouldn't be surprised if they are already on the road-map of the devs.  In case they aren't, here would be my suggestion.

 

  1. Increase pre-game timer for better planning (maybe a server side option to allow for experimentation on how long is appropriate?)
     
  2. To help the concern over the timer being too long for various reason's (no planning going on, small map, etc.,) implement a "Ready" option for the SL's that they can tick off.  When maybe 70% of the SL's have checked they are ready on both teams, the count down timer drops to 10 seconds regardless of how much time was left.  I like how BF4 does this by showing how many have marked "ready" on both teams for everyone to see.  This might be another good server-side option to find out what the right balance of "ready" SL's is to launch the game.
     
  3. Allow the "local chat" for _just_ your squad to be used (ie. not like end of game) pre-game in which the local chat is muted maybe 80% (adjustable per SL) of what normal chat volume is for SL's.  Then SL's could ask their squad to use the local chat instead of squad chat to banter among themselves so they could actually hear the other SL's for planning.  Might be nice to even have a mute option for SL's for the local chat.  If a squad member needs to talk to Lead, they can use the squad chat which would come through at a normal volume level all the time.
     
  4. Allow SL's to "reserve" vehicles at main spawn.  I wouldn't lock the vehicles to a specific squad, just more of a visual on both the map and in-game of which vehicles the SL's were intending for their squad to take, complete with markers on the compass so they can find it a little easier when they spawn in.  The reservation might actually allow for multiple squads to reserve a vehicle with one of the squads being the "primary" or the designate drivers in the event one squad is transporting another.
     
  5. As mentioned by someone back in summer of 2016, I think the ability for SL's to draw on the map for the squad members to see would be pretty cool.  The new green FOB markers was a great start at helping to communicate plans, I'd just like to see a bit more of this type of thing.

 

Two other unrelated features I'd like to see...

  1. Could we have the scale on the map not anchored to the lower right corner map itself but instead be an overlay that is always showing and changes with zoom level?
     
  2. Could medic's have a reduced power set of binoculars?  Not enough to be a full on scout, but enough to at least somewhat support the SL more and also get a better idea of threats when trying to run to someone to revive them?  Medic work is awesome during a firefight, but it's a little less so during slower times and it would be nice to have a secondary skill to support the team other than just being another shovel buddy.
     
  3. Current tickets back on the map view.  I hate having to open up the score board just to see our current tickets.

 

As always, keep up the great work.  Your "Alpha" version of this game is light years ahead of any Alpha software I have ever used.  I like the balance you are striking between being more complex than a run-n-gun game like the Battlefield series, but not as complex as the Arma type of game.  Your latest v9 upgrades were amazing.  Last night in the second story of hill top I saw my entire team get shredded to pieces through the wall by the heavy gun on a vehicle and I loved it (not the part where my squad died, just the sounds and the fx, grin.)  With every version you guys keep ratcheting the game up to the next level!

Edited by 3S_Moe

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There are a lot of haters here who don't like new ideas. But I will especially like to say that this thread is so great. You have great ideas and I agree with it. Especially the squad leaders reserving vehicles! Great posts. Can't believe the rest of these guys haven't responded yet. Smh

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For point no. 1, I think server admin can pause the timer.

 

On no. 2, this feature is quite common on other games not just BF4. Great idea here and the map scale too. Sometimes I don't have clue how big the map is.

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Morever, after time extension for tactical discussion , we need a commander class in order to dedicate sources to squads..this would be fair , so in pre-match discussion, the vehicles would be shared between squads with a management of new commander role. So tactical plan application would be ensured at least start of the game and panic seen at the beginning of the game could be decreased.. 

Other idea , as an only commander ability , new map symbols and drawings could be used on the maps at planning phase to show in detail some directions and orders to all squad leaders..

 

Edited by Togisan

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there is already too much time. Please dont make me wait.

 

Find a server with capable and willing squad leaders and never go back to whatever you are playing on now.

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14 hours ago, 3S_Moe said:

No other comments?  Really?

There's already an active duplicate thread which will get you more views instead of just starting another.

 

 

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1 hour ago, LugNut said:

There's already an active duplicate thread which will get you more views instead of just starting another.

 

 

 

Yep there is another similar thread and I had replied on that thread (numerous times) as well... The only thing though is that thread did not discuss some of the things I have proposed here.  One idea that did come up on the other thread was the idea of spawning people in to the main base during the count down timer period so that people could go ahead and get in the vehicles of their choice.  If that was implemented with some of my suggestions here, WOW, that would be like planning heaven.  Not only would the planning side be easier with some of the proposed ideas so far, but the actual start-of-game chaos would be reduced with the "walled main base until start" idea posted in the other thread.

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4 hours ago, suds said:

there is already too much time. Please dont make me wait.

 

Find a server with capable and willing squad leaders and never go back to whatever you are playing on now.

 

A "capable" server one weekend because a newbie server the next weekend.  Let me tell you, last weekend was rough on every server.  Lots of "left click to dig, right click to dig-up" shovel training.

 

I agree with you about not wanting to wait any longer than you have to if you have SL's that are retarded and not planning or if it's a smaller map that doesn't require a lot of planning.  That's the reason I like the "Ready" idea that has been implemented in lots of games that effectively allows the majority of players (or SL's in this case) to get the game going without waiting.  In fact, by implementing a feature like that, you might find that games start even quicker than they do now yet allow for long planning periods when needed.  So why can't we have the best of both worlds?

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9 hours ago, suds said:

there is already too much time. Please dont make me wait.

 

Find a server with capable and willing squad leaders and never go back to whatever you are playing on now.

 

When a game lasts an hour or more an extra 2-mins at the start to get organised is really not a big deal. I would rather wait and have a squad and team plan then start the game and try make a plan as everyone rushes off. This is what makes clan games so exciting everyone ready at the start knowing what they are doing and where they are going. Everyone ready for action. 

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Reality check- Current 1 min timer.

 

In a server made up mostly of pubs:

  1. Squad 1 is created, instantly fills up but leader leaves. This is Alpha Squad 1. It sucks tickets in and spits out disappointment, occasionally contributing later in the game when a capable leader takes over.
  2. Some clan players will make a "x only" squad. Sometimes they allow others to join.
  3. Perhaps 2 squad leaders are communicating. 
  4. No decent squad leader makes a public squad until the last 10 seconds before game start. They don't want to babysit.

 

In a server made up mostly of the same clan with some pubs:

  1. Noob squad alpha 1 is created and filled.
  2. Wait 45 seconds.
  3. No SL coms are happening.
  4. Clan squads are created with a few seconds to spare so they dont have to appear rude kicking the pubs they dont want in their squad.
  5. Clans already know what they are doing, clan squad leaders talk on the move.

 

In a server mostly full of regulars who know each other, mixtures of clans and loner regulars:

  1. Squads are created immediately by leaders who have a basic plan, these fill up with players who know the play style of that leader and a few extras.
  2. Squads have names which define their role or are amusing.
  3. Squad leaders announce their intentions, many ignore what others are doing and end up in the same place. Some fill the gaps and carry the load.
  4. Clock counts down from 30 to 0, Clans squads and smaller squads are created and ask what has been decided by existing SL's in prior 30 seconds.
  5. Squads spawn and talk on the move.

 

Imaginary squad planning land - 2 min timer

  1. No squads form until end of planning, players leave server to find one already underway.
  2. Little planning is achieved, most players have gone for a piss.
  3. In the case of a server which is populated by regulars there is discussion but no-one agrees, no-one is about to take orders, everyone has their own plan. 
  4. Players spawn: 
  5. Individual plans are enacted. The only achievement is 1 min closer to death without enjoyment. Resulting plan? Same as current system.

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Very interesting analysis Suds.  How would you rectify the situation?  Have a tactical screen at start that shows each Squads plan of attack, signed off by each SL.  Game will not start after timer but after each SL that exists hits Go button and says Go on mic.  If a SL will not hit Go button or say Go, the commander steps in and disbands squad or replaces SL.  Just some ideas.  How would you enforce a plan?

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4 hours ago, suds said:

Imaginary squad planning land - 2 min timer

  1. No squads form until end of planning, players leave server to find one already underway.
  2. Little planning is achieved, most players have gone for a piss.
  3. In the case of a server which is populated by regulars there is discussion but no-one agrees, no-one is about to take orders, everyone has their own plan. 
  4. Players spawn: 
  5. Individual plans are enacted. The only achievement is 1 min closer to death without enjoyment. Resulting plan? Same as current system.

 

I think your analysis is spot on, minus one detail, I believe the timer is at least 2 minutes currently, possibly more (I could swear I've seen that timer above 120 seconds.)

 

That being said, why can't this be a server side controlled setting?  Why is that SOOOOOOOO difficult for the devs to implement? (I bet they could implement this in about 30 minutes.)  Then one server can have a one minute timer, which will probably garner the run-n-gun types, and another server can have a 5 minute timer, which just as you said will have the impatient ones leave and the more hard-core planners stay.

 

Why devs!  This has been massively discussed for a long time on these forums.  Why in the world will you simply not allow the pre-game timer and the end-of-round timer to be server controlled and let democracy do it's job!?  Even if you gave server admin's that tiny amount of control it could make a huge difference to the Squad gaming experience.

Edited by 3S_Moe

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Is it possible to implement some code that, for the pre game stage, when pressing the SL voice chat key all other voice chat is muted for each SL?   Or maybe on simpler terms just have local and squad chat muted for the first 3/4 of pre game timer for the SL?  Something along those lines.  Then the SL can chat easily.  Then again all they have to do is just tell their squad to be quiet for a minute.  Meh.  Probably pointless. 

 

I dont know how an extension will really increase the planning.  The issue is the players not the game.  If there was a match or league setting there would be no issue with SL's planning out their tactics.

Edited by Converge

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@XRobinsonI think any system which could be trolled would be. Eg make everyone wait by creating a squad and never pressing the start button.

 

Rather than more time I think squad leaders should get better map tools with the ability to draw and hide content from each squad (lets call it penis hider as this will be its most common use). 

The SL can decide which content his squad sees and presses a show to squad button. He should be able to get basic actions like initial markers done within the regular timer and can add more detail while sitting in a passenger seat.

 

The "plan" is then available to all. Whether is actually occurs is impossible to know.

 

The current system is "im going here" "you should go here" which tends to take about 10 seconds. It works.

 

I have a problem with the whole current setup of all spawning at main.

I think there should be temporary spawn points in advanced positions in all maps so the maps are active from the start, this stops (or reduces the effectiveness of) flag rushing and also provides faster action and more realistic beginnings to maps. There could be a whole lot of randomly selected spawns with limited numbers. 

Eg Map starts, squad 1 already has a rally point off to the side of the central objective. It is also visible to the enemy via a damaged vehicle with a plume of smoke. They know that smoke is not usually there. For the sake of story line lets call it a crashed blackhawk or damaged vehicle, the squad is alone in enemy territory and the game is already made more replayable through variety. Extending, perhaps this vehicle could be recovered later by a tow or some other repair mechanism, it becomes a new objective or an asset which needs teamwork to bring to the fight.

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