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SpecialAgentJohnson

Environment penetration -what does it mean practically?

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Which materials can be penetrated and how far?

 

Are there unpenetrable materials/houses or can any gun, only caliber big enough, be able to penetrate any material?

 

Can sandbags be penetrated by say cannon fire or rpgs? 

 

Can HEAT rounds penetrate sandbags?

 

Can trees be penetrated?

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they said the 30 mm can penetrate "afghan tight packed mudwalls" so normal compounds i think - but they say that is specifically for the 30mm... so i think normal houses are safe, but wooden ones... im not sure, maybe normal rifles can penetrate a little.

Edited by Shovely Joe

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Depends.  the .50 should be able to tear through just about anything, especially the mud-brick houses in the desert maps. Speaking of real world, not sure how it will be implemented. 5.45x39 / 7.62x39 / 5.56 can definitely penetrate materials as well.  things like wooden doors and fences should hopefully become concealment and not cover.  I'm really really looking forward to this being added. Too many times I've had rounds hit tiny little branches or tiny little fence boards that would get torn apart easily.  hopefully we won't see that happen anymore. It can throw off the trajectory of the bullet however depending on what your bullet hits or passes through and how much further away the target is. 

Edited by Converge

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I love this feature, it really sucked that you couldn't shoot through these stupid wooden fences, which look like they would fall apart in, case you touch them. Especially on Yehorivka.

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 It was more of a question for the devs really... or if somebody else knows. Especially want to know like mentioned above if there will still be magical leafes that can stop 30mm etc. Hate that too. No penetration before really meant that a 50 cal was really a slow shooting exposed 5.56mm gun. No advantage at all really, except for use against vehicles.

If you penetrate a stone wall with a 50 cal I am sure you will have a big amount of shrapnel from the wall flying around as well. I hope this will be modeled as well otherwise advantage of heavy weapons is still less than it should be.

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The only pros to 50.'s right now is really their bullet capacity and their range. The CROW is also a plus for it's sights, other than that, they can't do a whole lot to people behind walls.

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18 hours ago, JJarrowGaming said:

Hopefully rockets can penetrate those weathered wooden fences to hit vehicles camping up against them as well as other targets.

Wouldn't be realistic, most AT rockets use hollow charges to penetrate armor, if the rocket hits the fence it would set the charge free and it would be to far away from the vehicle to damage it. Thats why you see APC's wearing cages.

strykercage.jpg

High explosive or thermobaric rockets on the other hand are a whole different story.

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They're wearing metal cages that have absolutely no give - they're not using weathered fence boards that are in total disarray.  My uncle (Green Beret Vietnam) said there is a difference between solid baerrier and flimsy wooden fence boards.  If it hit a fence post, that would trigger it - he said that there were soldiers on both sides that were found dead with LAWs and RPGs impaled in them.

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20 hours ago, JJarrowGaming said:

Hopefully rockets can penetrate those weathered wooden fences to hit vehicles camping up against them as well as other targets.

this +10000

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I agree, any soldiers that would stand on the other side of the fence would have their day ruined, but i was talking about (lightly) armored vehicles. I think the effectiveness of the rocket against vehicles would be reduced.

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6 hours ago, Frinz said:

Wouldn't be realistic, most AT rockets use hollow charges to penetrate armor, if the rocket hits the fence it would set the charge free and it would be to far away from the vehicle to damage it. Thats why you see APC's wearing cages.

*pic*

High explosive or thermobaric rockets on the other hand are a whole different story.

Not how it works. A shaped charge warhead actually hitting the cage armor is the worst case scenario, because generally the penetration of HEAT rounds increases with standoff distance up to a distance of like 400-600 mm. The cage armor is meant to destroy or damage the warhead when it passes through it enough to prevent the fuse from going off at all or sub-optimally.

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I hope HEAT rounds like from the RPG will have the ability to also severally damage/kill enemies behind solid cover based on the material and thickness. HEAT would have the capability of damaging through solid brick and metal sheeting. 

 

Explosives like grenades would be able to send shrapnel through thin areas of wood, causing bleeding and some damage, and RPG Frag rounds could cause death to those on the other side of a wooden wall.

 

This would help solidify the frag's purpose of decimating infantry in the open/thin cover with a large spray of shrapnel and little projectile drop, and the HEAT rounds would have an extra use as anti-material infantry killers.

Edited by Catindabox

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Best case scenario: warhead is being crushed --> prevents detonation.

Worst case scenario: warhead hits cage and explodes --> optimal detonation is being prevented cause it's not hitting the actual armor.

 

But why does the penetration increase with standoff distance? I don't get it.

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3 hours ago, Frinz said:

Best case scenario: warhead is being crushed --> prevents detonation.

Worst case scenario: warhead hits cage and explodes --> optimal detonation is being prevented cause it's not hitting the actual armor.

 

But why does the penetration increase with standoff distance? I don't get it.

I'm pretty sure there's a limit to how much it increases with distance, from what I gathered it was more rather that the farther it goes, the more energy is builds up resulting in a better chance for penetrating, but at some point it will lose that energy in the air if it goes too far, so trying to penetrate walls from across the map won't be successful.

 

Could be wrong though, just what I gathered from it.

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On 3/6/2017 at 4:36 PM, MVPiet13 said:

NO MORE WATER GLITCHERS!!!!!

I dunno they might still be invisible underwater.. but at least they'll take damage.

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12 hours ago, Arduras said:

I dunno they might still be invisible underwater.. but at least they'll take damage.


Just waiting on the drowning mechanic, tbh.

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Imo the wooden structures like fences, tables, chairs etc. should be penetrable by rifle fire, not so sure if it's a good idea to do the same with wooden houses. Deployables should be destructible by C4/IED's when they add the sapper/engineer to the game

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I wouldn't mind accurate bullet penetration, it would certainly create interesting gameplay as you'd have to be much more aware what you were standing behind. 

 

 

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On 2017-03-09 at 1:55 AM, BenWhittle said:

I'm pretty sure there's a limit to how much it increases with distance, from what I gathered it was more rather that the farther it goes, the more energy is builds up resulting in a better chance for penetrating, but at some point it will lose that energy in the air if it goes too far, so trying to penetrate walls from across the map won't be successful.

 

Could be wrong though, just what I gathered from it.

The optimal standoff distance is configured within the rocket itself. There is a "stick" of a certain length within the rocket so to speak, that with travel speed taken into account, detonates the shaped charge precisely at the right stand-off distance for optimal effect. The charge is shaped like a cone, and when it explodes it kind of inverts into a molten metal jetstream that effectively penetrates the armour in front. However, the standoff distance (extra time) makes sure that the molten metal stream has time to form completely and focus on the armour at the exact right point of impact. This maximizes the damage to the recipient. Cage armour attempts to disturb the rocket so that it explodes prematurely, so that the molten metal jetstream is out of focus and splattered by the time it impacts with the armour. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. That is why cage armour is not 100% effective and can have varying results. There is no reason to believe that the engineers of the rpg didn't aim for the optimal  "stick-length" by default, meaning that extra further stand-off distance will most likely lessen the damage of the shaped-charge rpg.

Edited by SpecialAgentJohnson

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I'm curious if the new M855A1 will be used eventually for the m4. From what I've seen, it's a pretty nice round. The penetration capability was enhanced quite a lot over the m855.

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23 hours ago, Fritz45 said:

I'm curious if the new M855A1 will be used eventually for the m4. From what I've seen, it's a pretty nice round. The penetration capability was enhanced quite a lot over the m855.

 

The M855A1 is being used in the M4 carbine right now. It was designed for the M4 after all.

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