Peerun

Serious balance problem

73 posts in this topic
55 minutes ago, Nordic said:

Regarding the video made, yeah I know about that and personally I think it should be in, it's a part about the infantry combat that makes the lone soldier able to perform and make a difference, hell I've won a game in a scrim based only on the fact that a solo medic killed 5 people alone in close combat and then reviving us, stuff like that is why I love squad. That would never be possible in PR, if your squad got wiped the lone soldier could be as good as he wanted but never make a difference, that's what I like with squad. Teamwork and individual performance so nicely tied together!

 

Again you don't really know PR. This kind of stuff is very much possible in PR, it's just much harder to pull off because you need to rely on: constantly changing position, distracting enemies, predicting what enemies will do and finally being in the right position to make the kills happen. Compare this to Squad where 1-2 shots can get you out of a lot of horrible situations. One requires tactics and outsmarting your enemy, other is moving your mouse better than the enemy. Guess which one feels better to pull off.

 

And yes I know you can still outsmart and outmanoeuvre enemies in Squad, but bottom line stays: couple of shots negating lots of bad decision making is something that shouldn't happen.

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46 minutes ago, banOkay said:

 

Again you don't really know PR. This kind of stuff is very much possible in PR, it's just much harder to pull off because you need to rely on: constantly changing position, distracting enemies, predicting what enemies will do and finally being in the right position to make the kills happen. Compare this to Squad where 1-2 shots can get you out of a lot of horrible situations. One requires tactics and outsmarting your enemy, other is moving your mouse better than the enemy. Guess which one feels better to pull off.

 

And yes I know you can still outsmart and outmanoeuvre enemies in Squad, but bottom line stays: couple of shots negating lots of bad decision making is something that shouldn't happen.



I very much know PR, I play it every week. You should perhaps not talk about me when you don't know me mate, hurts the discussion!

I feel fantastic moving my mouse better than the opponent, it takes A LOT of skill to be a good shooter, why shouldn't it be rewarded just like being a tactical player is?

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1 minute ago, banOkay said:

 

Many people play PR regularly but don't really understand it, from how you've described situations you belong in that group. The answer to the 2nd question has been repeated too many times. I suggest you get a game like QL or Reflex and get your aiming ego in check.



Nope, I'm very fine with Squad seeing how it's an First-Person-Shooter and if you're not intrested in discussing your points by countering my arguments I suggest you stay out of a discussion thread!


Either way, I'm not gonna waste time on you anymore since you're obviously just trolling and wasting time.


Have a nice one champ =)

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7 hours ago, Nordic said:

Ok, I'm actually going to elaborate on this even though this is the 2949294th thread about the EXACT SAME THING.

I have 2000 hours + in this game so I fairly know what I'm talking about.

Generally there's 4 categories of players when it comes to skirmishes:

Type A: The top 1% shooters, the CSGO global elite or whatever the frekk it's called. Players like myself whose spent a lot of time in FPS over the years. These are the ones with 20+ kills every game. Not unusual to go 30+ or even 40+ in games.

Type B: The good shooters, your overall good FPS player. These are the ones that goes 12-18 kills per match.

Type C: The average one, players who come by but doesn't do anything cool in particular. Misses a lot of shots but gets the job done. They are the ones that land 5-10 and get hyped about 12 kills.

Type D: The very poor shooters, doesn't really care about FPS at all and isn't playing Squad because of it.


Be advised, this post completely ignores insta proning (A.k.a dolphin diving) because it's already going to be tweaked / changed / removed and thus no need to discuss it whatsoever. It's a problem, everyone knows it. In due time it won't be.

What you're asking for already exists. You're arguing that the player who sits stationary should have the advantage over someone running far away / doesn't have their gun up etc.

It already is so. There needs to be an INCREDIBLE skill differences for someone to actually take you out (Add to that scope vs no scope).

In a B vs A situation where player B is shooter a running A from the side they will in 99% cases win that engagement (or A will hide).

Now a big problem is that after A hides, he can insta prone > stand up and shoot and dive in seconds. Something that wouldn't be the same if you had to crouch. But as I said, IGNORE all that because it's going away.

In a situation were C shoots at A, A might very well win simply by turning towards C and shooting back.
C is missing his / her shots and A has the confidence and skill to turn back and shoot, should A have done that versus B he would've died in 99% of the cases.


And so on so fourth, you get the idea.

That's how it's going to be. This is infantry combat and this is what makes Squad such a fantastic game. The individual soldier can make an impact in the game due to his shooting skill. It is COMPLETE bullshit to add in mechanics to punish a better player so a worse player gets a chance, the worse player should improve instead. 

Because otherwise you're going to end up with PR, were infantry squads disvolve quickly, rarely enjoys themselves or just does random shit. Essentially infantry in PR is just waiting for the next game hoping to get an asset that game.


In Squad you can get AMAZING close combat fights when one team drops in with a helo or an APC etc etc.

And out of 50 players, at least 35 will in the future be running just that - infantry. That's 70/100 on each server. You want to make their game shit with shitty mechanics so they can't trust their rifle? Yeah that's a fantastic idea to ruin the game.


"But Nordic, what about type C/D whose not a good shooter, they'll get murdered by A/B?!"


Yupp, in most cases they will. C will need to improve his / her game if they want to play infantry, that's what it comes to. And D will mostly likely be your tank/Apc/IFC/Helo operators. And that's fine, we absolutely need those people. That's the reason why Squad is such a fantastic game, people from all qualities will get their spot.

Myself, I will very rarely do that. I'm a fighter from top to toe and I love being on the ground fighting (I SL 99% of the games I play).
Once every 20 games I'll drive a BTR to relax, but other than that I'll be on the boots on the ground. That's what I love.

And when player D comes with his BTR or MBT I can be as good of a shooter as I want, I'll still run the **** away.
Or when I sit on a rooftop covering papanov approach and suddenly a 30 MM starts shooting at me, I can have my ACOG all I want, I'll still not be able to pop my head up and russian infantry WILL be able to push in.



"They're asking for slower gameplay yada yada".


Well the fact is, that's your own fault. You're the people who rush, in most games I start out VERY slowly, either capping the back objectives or taking it cool. But people keep rushing, the only reason rushing the first flag is because people are stupid and greedy enough to cap it with 1 person.

Meanwhile I never get rushed because I in 99% cases send a full squad towards the defense flag, on Kohat I set up ambush for the rushing BTR on the northen bridge (Leading to malak abad) etc etc.


Squad IS slow if you play it properly and patiently. And anyone doing that will DEFINITELY win over the rushing / fast type (We're accounting for the same skilled players here, if one team is vastly better than the other obviously the gameplay isn't the issue.) because the fast type will lose a hell of a lot more tickets than the squad sitting patiently and letting the opponents run into their stationary positions.


I move A LOT when I play, nearly constantly, but most of my kills are coming from people running into my scope. I may be relocation CONSTANTLY but the fact remains that at least 60-80% of people are running into me when they die.


Now will it slow down further? Probably, especially with people learning how to play.

The issue are that people are playing, to be 100% honest, stupidly.


People pick shitty kits, they pick the marksman and go on their solo missions even when you're facing russia and have no or only 1 AT (OP in the thread a perfect example as he got kicked from my squad for doing that very thing not long ago.)
People waste vehicles like crazy and does not push up under cover, never use smokes to cover their push and so on so fourth.


The reason that works in PR is because you can't trust your rifle, you can have the perfect aim on someone and your bullet deviation decides to **** you over.

That's not smart gameplay, that's horrible gameplay.

Start improving YOUR play instead, start taking it slow and don't panic and play methodically.

And I see so many people whining about supression, yet you never use it? So many times people are just shooting at me while I'm visible or while they can take a shot, yet I barely see anyone shooting while someone is flanking for example.


Here's an excellent showcase of what I'm talking about:



Small things like this is the problem, sure the game has some smaller issues. But all in all, shooting is VERY solid in rewarding good players as it should.

The solution for players whose not as skilled losing to  higher skilled players is not punishing the good player, it's giving the worse player an ability to improve OR use the tools he have (The game is called Squad, USE THEM).


So Dubs, you can tell me to go back to CSGO all you want, but the fact is, when was the last time you played mechanized infantry, used your BTR with fashion or dependend on your squad mates?

I play 4-6 hours EVERYDAY and I rely on my squad mates EVERYDAY. If your players are scattered across the map, find a server that plays objectives.

Sounds to me like your issue is that you're playing with very shitty players who doesn't adapt.


I don't know where you're from, but if you're able to play on EU servers I'll be happy to play with you in a session with me and my clan mates and we'll see if you still have that opinion when you're finished, I'll buy you a beer if you do (provided you have paypal!).


Now if you're thinking about arguing with me, make sure you've read this post in the fullest because I'll know if you havn't and I won't spend my time arguing if you don't.

Have a nice day!

// Nordic

 

 

 

My god, for the second time ever I need to praise Nordic.

This post is 100% on the money and I don't need to add anything.

 

 

Although I will ask, how many of you have gone onto the firing range and ran the timed shooting range consistently for a few weeks? Grinding down that time to improve target snapping and accuracy? 
How many of you have tweaked your in-game sensitivity to find that 0.01 difference for the sweatspot so there's no over-cooking of target acquisition?

 

 

I am no killer, I rarely get double figures but that isn't why I play squad. Im the RTS player reading the map, that's my skill. That doesn't mean I want the game to change the parts that other people have skill in. That is just counter productive.

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Here's a hint for you: Most people are not intrested in hyper realistic or long firefights, they're here to play a game, not simulate a warzone

 

What is Squad? http://joinsquad.com/about

 

Quote

Squad is an online multiplayer first-person shooter that aims to capture combat realism through communication and teamplay.

 

Now I am even more confused, are QA members the official voice/go to guys of Squad Dev team?

 

I am remaining optimistic that it does exactly what it says on the tin and we are not told to go back to PR or Play Arma spent too much time with this game to just give up. I love the idea of Squad as it is officially described on this website and will see it through from start to finish. 

 

Peerun (OP) is right, a player with 100% health and full stamina should have the advantage over someone of whom is injured or having an asthma attack, like in dare I say PR, of which I am sure the makers of the game will fix, as always, patience is a virtue.

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20 minutes ago, wintski said:

Now I am even more confused, are QA members the official voice/go to guys of Squad Dev team?

 

 



Huh? Why would it? That's literally never been said.

All my views expressed here are my own. I'm flattered you think that I have any sort of game design power but I'm afraid I'll have to leave you dissapointed.


Now let's not assume things and start rumors shall we?

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I'm flattered you think that I have any sort of game design power but I'm afraid I'll have to leave you dissapointed

 

Nope not disappointed at all.  

 

Was worried based on what your "own views expressed" state, thought you was official in Squad mate that's all. My mistake. Sorry to assume such a thing. 

 

Lots of feedback/idea's here get shot down pretty quick over the last year, puts me off from posting most of the time.

 

Forums should be insult / bad attitude free with no hard feelings or animosity; respect by default of course.

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8 minutes ago, wintski said:

 

Forums should be insult / bad attitude free with no hard feelings or animosity; respect by default of course.

 

 

Coming Soon! I'm tired of the direction these forums have been going and we are going to start cleaning things up. Things will be changing. Prepare yourself.

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26 minutes ago, wintski said:

Lots of feedback/idea's here get shot down pretty quick over the last year, puts me off from posting most of the time.

 

Forums should be insult / bad attitude free with no hard feelings or animosity; respect by default of course.



Probably because it's the same circlejerk over and over and over and over again and it's been met with responses that we're in alpha and that the game isn't even closed to finished design wise but people keep posting the same things anyway?


Ever thought of it that way?


You seem to forget that a lot of the people who made this game knows PR better than anyone here, because they made PR.

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That's a very elaborate post, well done @Nordic
Too bad you miss the point entirely.
 

11 hours ago, Nordic said:

You're arguing that the player who sits stationary should have the advantage over someone running far away / doesn't have their gun up etc.


No Nordic, that is not what the thread is about. I implore you to read the OP again. It's not a hard concept to grasp, I promise.
Actually, I'll save you the trouble and recap again.

If you aim down your sights and walk - your sights wiggle. That's fine.
As you stop walking, still aiming - there is a delay between you stopping and the wiggle stopping.
...
If you aim down your sights and walk - your sights wiggle.
If you stop walking and stop aiming, and aim again - there's no wiggle.
...
....
If you sprint, stop, aim - there is no wiggle.
.
..
...
Are you seeing the point, yet?

In this thread  I am not asking for slower firefights or complicated controls - in fact I am asking for the complete opposite.
That is to say, mechanics that make sense both from a controls perspective, aswell as compared to other mechanics.
It is a simple observation, on my part, that there are things in Squad that take from an aspect of the game, but only apply it in isolated instances.
For example, the aforementioned delayed wiggle, is justified and inspired by the aspect of movement. In this mechanic, movement and stopping, is what affects or in other words triggers the wiggle. Movement.
So logically, you'd expect this to transition into every part of Squad that concerns movement, and stopping. Indeed, not only would you expect it to relate, by the nature of the wiggle you'd even expect the wiggle to increase with the amount of movement happening. Not so.

In conclusion, I am not questioning the mechanic itself, or its isolated implementation, but rather all the other features in relation to it. The consistency, if you will.
I would have the same problem in an arcade game, because it's not an argument about realism, it's an argument about game logic.

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Why are you arguing over something that will probably change totally with the new animation system? Peerun's points are fair, let's just wait for new Animations and hope they will be fixed, if not then come back to this, meanwhile we are just arguing over which tone of blue is the sky.

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9 hours ago, Nordic said:

Absolutely nothing except being QA for Squad.  How about you?

Are you sure will believe that I'm not bragging? ) Also I'm not sure that you really interested. But the short answer is yes, I have that experience and it pretty big.

 

Quote

Oh and I don't see how that's relevant to the thread so please elaborate on that.

 

That's easy. I think... when you saying:

Quote

 

I have 2000 hours + in this game so I fairly know what I'm talking about.

 

 

 

you are just protecting your "comfort zone" and that's it, cause you are afraid what if game will change - your so called "skill" will be screwed. That's why you are mentioned this. As I see it when you run out of arguments you trying to push on your authority to make your opinion more important than it really is. Therefore, I believe that quite the contrary - your opinion is not objective. Well this is how I see it, I do not claim that it is really so.

 

That's why I asked about your experience. The question is basically - how do you think whose opinion is more important:

1)A person who simply plays a game for a whatever time;

2)Or a person who also has experience in development and also play the game? )

 

You have to understand that I'm just want to show you how stupid it was to mention that you are elite-pro-gamer. I'am doing this solely because I don't like that you mentioned it, I don't like as well that you showing video that doesn't proof anything except that you are elite-pro-gamer and I don't like that you saying that you know better because you played a lot. You putting your opinion above others. It's dirty method. Yeah it's my problem, but I just decided to inform you.

 

By the way this is why I keep my mouth shut about my experience and rely only on what I can argue. Lets say I just called you to do the same. Please. Cause your opinion is the same as everybody else here. But of course I'm not telling you what you should do and what to play, cause I'm not you. Just saying.

 

Did I answered your question?

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13 hours ago, Nordic said:

@Dubs


Aight, your forum-fu clearly outranks me so I'm not gonna do fancy quoting like you, but more in a overall response, bear with me! (Also on a mobile device atm).
 


Sure, well, there are no esports in Squad yet. But we're in the final of the second tournament ever ran (The first one was Squad Lead and we (Mumblerines) didn't exist back then and we're starting the 3rd ever tournament soon!

ANYWAY, I think Squad offer the tactics, I mean that's why we win, we use the things I showcased in the video, smokes, fire teams, push together etc.

I can't count the times we've won engagements simply by outplaying people tactically. 95% of the clan players even in CCFN and other "semi serious" events push 1-3 together and die one by one were as me and my guys wait for each other and swoop in together, we're half famous for the "wall of mumbles" because we organize firing lines were everyone is spread out and such naturally.

Stuff like that is SUPER rare to see, which is what the biggest issue is.

All of that will make engagements longer while still being fairly fast paced!


Regarding the video made, yeah I know about that and personally I think it should be in, it's a part about the infantry combat that makes the lone soldier able to perform and make a difference, hell I've won a game in a scrim based only on the fact that a solo medic killed 5 people alone in close combat and then reviving us, stuff like that is why I love squad. That would never be possible in PR, if your squad got wiped the lone soldier could be as good as he wanted but never make a difference, that's what I like with squad. Teamwork and individual performance so nicely tied together!


We obviously have different thoughts about this, and that's fine! I am 100% there will be MUCH better when dolphin diving and insta unprone is gone.

Squad offers tactics and strategy of course, in a competitive scenario it's a lot more than your Pub match. But still even in competitive, engagements are still very similar with the pace of firefights and how things pan out. Firefights right now are like 1/4 of a chess game, when they could be 3/4 - 4/4 of a chess game. 

What I want to see is Squads doing more than, getting caught up in a fire fight, a bunch of people die and a single man does a flank and ends up winning it for them. All in the matter of 15 - 25 seconds. In my eyes movement should be rewarded by gaining fire superiority or as a Squad doing some cheeky baiting and maneuvering. Maybe I'm just nostalgic from my PR days where things like this happened a lot.

 

13 hours ago, Nordic said:

.
 


This isn't true and you know it, VERY few players can achieve that even with a scope. Most scoped people land on 10-12 kills except the really good players.

And yes, people do run around like headless chickens and THAT'S what needs to be fixed. Because those who don't will win versus the chickens anyday of the week, that's the whole idea with my post - players needs to change, not the game.


And if you like 1 game lives you're the type I described who'd like more simulation, hardcore realism stuff, and that's absolutely fine!

But you're very niché and I'm sure there will be mods (and possibly servers?) running this in the future, but for the overall game most players are not intrested in that.

Fire fights have more substance / action / last longer if you play them right, right now it's mostly fire team usage and stuff like that. That's my whole point, players are hindering themselves by playing - quite frankly - ****ing idiotic.

Most people I see with optics generally get 10 - 30 kills in the servers I play regularly. The really good shooters like Floop, PandaVirus, Ting etc hit those 20 - 50 kill counts. Even myself, I'm not a fantastic shooter, and I usually get 20 - 35 kills with optics.I literally just point and shoot, that's it(As shown in my example video)


I like one life games, I also like competitive type events like Sunday Roast events over in the Oceania side of things. Mainly due to people working together. In one life events, you are forced to give covering fire and move as a Squad. Moving as an individual is almost guaranteed death. You can be a great shooter and kill quite effectively but moving and doing flanking with a fireteam/smaller element is more rewarding.

It's the type of Squad teamwork I want to see in Squad, where Squad level tactics and engagements mean more than everyone dying in 20 seconds and people being carried by one or two good shooters. I wouldn't say I'm more into simulation. Maybe back in the day when I had time for 3 - 4 hour Arma 3 milsim missions lol I like that Squad offers a balance between Battlefield & Arma, I just feel the firefight aspect is a bit too on the arcade side with freedom of movement and how shooting can be easy.

People will continue to run like headless chickens, because the game design allows them too. As a single person, you can kill 20 - 50 people in a game, they all want to be that guy everyone talks about at the end of a match. That's why we have idiot 'snipers' on mountains, that's why we have a vast majority of players running around like madmen lol It's a double edged sword that comes with the territory.
 

10 hours ago, BLITZA said:

Although I will ask, how many of you have gone onto the firing range and ran the timed shooting range consistently for a few weeks? Grinding down that time to improve target snapping and accuracy? 
How many of you have tweaked your in-game sensitivity to find that 0.01 difference for the sweatspot so there's no over-cooking of target acquisition?

I do it before every game I play, whether competitive or a pub match. Nothing like a good old warm up. I can generally clear out the training range in 22ish seconds.
I have also narrowed down my sensitivity to 0.32 and my DPI to 800. Which is kind of weird, most other FPS games I play, I generally sit around 0.38 - 0.39 sens and 1200 DPI. Maybe I'm just a Mong.

Nordic might disagree with your statements about training muscle memory and twitch reaction in Jensens range offline though :P There was a discussion awhile ago where he expressed his thoughts on it.

 

Edited by Dubs

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6 hours ago, Dubs said:

Squad offers tactics and strategy of course, in a competitive scenario it's a lot more than your Pub match. But still even in competitive, engagements are still very similar with the pace of firefights and how things pan out. Firefights right now are like 1/4 of a chess game, when they could be 3/4 - 4/4 of a chess game. 

What I want to see is Squads doing more than, getting caught up in a fire fight, a bunch of people die and a single man does a flank and ends up winning it for them. All in the matter of 15 - 25 seconds. In my eyes movement should be rewarded by gaining fire superiority or as a Squad doing some cheeky baiting and maneuvering. Maybe I'm just nostalgic from my PR days where things like this happened a lot.



Yeah sure, that's a bit true, but that's just because of the newer game, updated graphics, resolutions and such. Like people can see further than 100 meters right now, hell you're not safe on 300-400 meters in plain sight like you mostly are in PR.
I'm personally leaning towards fog of war, perhaps only for the infantry (I hate that you're limited in long range vehicles in PR) to perhaps tweak that, I consider it working decently on sumari (all though it's TOO close there) and Yehorivka 2.


Sure, good shooters are rewarded, as they should - but again, everyone of those players who get up to 50 frags, I get +30 nearly every game as well, it's mostly due to players playing poorly split with close combat and I mean, close combat is not the games fault, that's just thousands of hours in FPS games that gives me the edge. Can't blame the game for me being a nerd. :)
 

6 hours ago, Dubs said:

I like one life games, I also like competitive type events like Sunday Roast events over in the Oceania side of things. Mainly due to people working together. In one life events, you are forced to give covering fire and move as a Squad. Moving as an individual is almost guaranteed death. You can be a great shooter and kill quite effectively but moving and doing flanking with a fireteam/smaller element is more rewarding.


Oh yeah I'm definitely here for the competitive games as well. And they're TONS better and I'm kind of hoping that's what pubs are going to be in time.
I mean sure, you say headless chickens will continue to run around for sometime, that will always be true to some extend due to new players coming in all the time, but it till greately decrease when people learned the game. Look at were we was at V7 end / V8 release.

It's WAY better since then.


I get the one life hype, and I think it's an excellent game mode for people like you who want that exact experience, were you actually can't just respawn on the rally if you die. There will probably be servers with mods running that 24/7 and I bet a bunch of players like you will resident there 24/7 as well. I know a few personally that will and I think that's awesome.

 

But most of players are more intrested in the "game" side of things with a realism factor than mil sil with the game factor if that makes any sense?

 

6 hours ago, Dubs said:

Nordic might disagree with your statements about training muscle memory and twitch reaction in Jensens range offline though :P There was a discussion awhile ago where he expressed his thoughts on it.


Hehe :) All in all, I think it's "useless" to train to get actively better there, but just going there to shoot targets to get the warmup in and wake up the muscle memory
for the day is perfect. All though I don't use the minigame but rather run and turn fast to hit the targets far away.
But I long for the day we get moving targets (or even enemies!) on the range because right now it's not really possible to train your aim in a real world scenario.
I've used it a lot to get the distance of shots and such in though in my 2000 hours. Except GL. 2000 hours and I still can't ever hit something with GL. Because **** that weapon.
 

 

6 hours ago, Dubs said:

I have also narrowed down my sensitivity to 0.32 and my DPI to 800. Which is kind of weird, most other FPS games I play, I generally sit around 0.38 - 0.39 sens and 1200 DPI. Maybe I'm just a Mong.


When I move my whole mousepad from left to right I move the sight slightly over 90 degrees - most other FPS games doesn't feature pixelhunting in 300-400 meters and aiming at a head that's 1 CM on your screen, that's why you're running that sens :D 

Oh and we should remember (yeah here it comes): We're in alpha, there's a ton of gameplay design things we havn't even seen yet, shooting is going to change and a lot when the ****ing drop shooting and dolphin diving stops and other things, so we'll see were we land. Hopefully we'll find a nice sweetspot for both of us so to speak.

 

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8 hours ago, Dubs said:

People will continue to run like headless chickens, because the game design allows them too. As a single person, you can kill 20 - 50 people in a game, they all want to be that guy everyone talks about at the end of a match. That's why we have idiot 'snipers' on mountains, that's why we have a vast majority of players running around like madmen lol It's a double edged sword that comes with the territory.
 

What an irony, the game called Squad is about an individuals... 

For me It just nothing to talk about - vanilla fast pacig competitive shooter is not what we was promiced on kickstarter.
 

2 hours ago, Nordic said:

Nordic might disagree with your statements about training muscle memory and twitch reaction in Jensens range offline though

Jesus Christ!!!! It's even worce that I thought!

Last time I saw people who was wasting their lives in some wierd training to get some "skill" was in Counter-Strike: Source...

 

Devs should really do something with their game to save you guys from yourselves :D 

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Putting aside the gameplay development (i.e refining mechanics as we move towards V 1.0),

I really don't think theres an issue here.

From memory I started playing last Feb, and since then I have 875 hours in game. That has nearly all been with ZXD clan.

We group up on discord, and generally form a 9 man Squad and play our server, or other servers.

It nearly always goes like this, if we play as a Squad we do well. If we don't play as a Squad we do not do so well.

As most of us have alot of experience now, we tend to score high K/D either way on public servers. But our side winning the round (or not) nearly always relies on if the whole team, played well as a whole team. My point is, the objectives and team tactics absolutely have a major impact on the outcome in Squad.

ZXD has supported the Sunday night CCFN event every week for ages, and it is a different experience to the public game (except on a few rare occasions), and friendly scrims are again different. Both of these types of rounds enhance the need for effective tactics. individual skill and team play, massively.

A K/D ratio of say 30/4 is pretty rare at CCFN or any skrim Maybe 2 or 3 players get that (excluding the gunners in vehicles sometimes).

 

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Until you've gone into the firing range and ground down those times, you can't sit there and say it's useless. I have seen a lot of people  improve their shooting ability in-game by doing that very thing, in addition to an improvement in my own killing ability. So unfortunately i disagree with your opinion on it's benefit.

 

Edited by BLITZA

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This preview of the new animation system which may come in v10 could invalidate all this discussion...

 

PaltrySharpAsiaticmouflon-size_restricted.gif

 

Anyway, some people will be competitive no matter what, be it Squad or tic-tac-toe, some will try to improve their abilities to the max, this is gaming. Some will be happy staying in the middle, and there is nothing wrong with that either. So all this discussion about some taking the game to extremes is dumb. Let each one play as they like, game will cater for some audience but there will always those points out of the curve, we should just live with that. Play squad as you like, as long as you dont break any rule or act unfair.

 

I bet with new animation system released competitive players will just adapt and try to outsmart other players as before, just with the new tools and limitations the game will impose, as I said this is a game and some players have this need to compete and improve beyond the regulars, and both ways are ok, each one is having fun their way and it is actually a good thing that Squad allows for that, instead of limiting to just one style of play. That said, squad is obviously targeting the more mature and tactical style, but not a total milsim ultra-realistic ultra-authentic.

 

Finally, remember that tin box says: "Capture combat realism THROUGH COMMUNICATION AND TEAMWORK". People with reading disabilities seem to stop reading after the "realism" word, but the phrase makes clear that communication and teamwork are the main goals that will make the game reach its realism, what will set squad apart from other realism focused FPS games.

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I believe there's No Right/Wrongs in this discussion by both. We'll have our own preferences styles skills & playing backgrounds. I believe our Devs will fine-tune the gaming mechanic's with hopefully that sweet spot between the likes of BF/COD  vs Arna/PR.

 

I mean I was totally gutted that I couldn't get my "Boom HeadShots" like i did in JoinOps (I'm over it now). 

 

PS. I believe there's big changes coming our way...Real soon!.

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100% backing up banOkay and FishMan, the way it is right now is simply not up to the standards we wanted to achieve when squad started - which is why the whole animation system is being overhauled in the first place. I also dont understand anyone who comes around with weird arguments, trying to reject !any! legit criticism on mechanics that were implemented as placeholders during the very first stages of this game.

 

I hope the animations come out well, from there we can try to discuss. But please stop being rude and telling people to play another game if theyre simply trying to participate within this community by discussing their opinions. Lacks some class and manners tbh.

 

Anyway meny kiss and lovers to evriyone, lets maek sqwat best gaem 2018

Edited by Headless86
:)

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