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Peerun

Additional comms - are they needed?

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What do you guys think about the need for implementing fireteam and vehicle comms?
Should implementing these be higher priority, in your opinion?


I wouldn't make the thread, if I thought we can do without them much longer, obviously.

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not sure my fingers can find more buttons...I thought the intention was to have different comms given they have the buttons to set in the options menu... I dont thinkt here is a need for vehicle comms.. just use local... fire team I think is good idea.

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11 minutes ago, embecmom said:

not sure my fingers can find more buttons...I thought the intention was to have different comms given they have the buttons to set in the options menu... I dont thinkt here is a need for vehicle comms.. just use local... fire team I think is good idea.


Think about it, would there really be more buttons?
For SL
- 1st key for squad comms
- 2nd key for local comms
- 3rd key for command comms
For SM
- 1st key for squad comms
- 2nd key for local comms
- 3rd key for fireteam comms
In vehicle
- 1st key for squad comms
- 2nd key for vehicle comms
- 3rd key command/fireteam, depending on SL or SM

Atleast to my mind, you don't need a separate button for the SL to choose between fireteam and squad, but even if you had one, it's only one more button, only for SL.
Or I guess you could also have a full on channel system, where you can switch inbetween all of them, which would most likely be for the best, but I feel like it may not agree with the user-friendliness concept of the game. Well in OWI's opinion anyway, I imagine.
 

Edited by Peerun

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Yeah, I think they're starting to become a necessity. Especially if you want more complex gameplay.

 

The local voice channel isn't that viable forintra-vehicle comms as it's often drowned out by engine noise and poor audio settings. They'd either have to make a dedicated vehicle comms channel, or make the local voice sound crystal clear to anyone in the vehicle with you. The latter option could make crew comms in transport difficult, though.

 

I suggested this ages ago:

 

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16 minutes ago, ChanceBrahh said:

 

Id love for this to still happen, being able to talk to certain squads but at the same time i like how it is now cause it kinda notify s you all

 

9067bb2191fa08c174033a2465c78c5f_origina

 


But the numpad thing just represents SL-to-SL comms.
This thread is about Fireteam-to-Squad and In-Vehicle, possibly Vehicle-to-Vehicle, comms.
Although, yeah, I agree that using a numpad system for SL-to-SL comms for the SL and Fireteam-to-Fireteam for SMs would be a pretty good solution. 

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2 hours ago, Tartantyco said:

@ChanceBrahh @Peerun Numpad SL-to-SL comms were ditched with squad limits, so those Kickstarter posters are waaay out of date. Anyways, last I heard both SL-to-SL and Fireteam comms were in the works.


When and where did you last hear, if you don't mind me asking?

Edited by Peerun

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I'd love to see inter-crew com's for assets as the Stryker, MTLB, basically everthing heavier than the Techie's.
Maybe you don't even need a new Keybinding, do it the ACE³ way and make the Driver, Gunner and Commander positions automatically "radio".

The rest of the Squad would hear them normally speaking, whilst the positions named would hear their mates louder and with a slight radio-filter.
Doesnt clutter controls, allows the Infantry to continue chatting and the Crew to be able to maintain comms at any point.

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2 hours ago, Tillee said:

I'd love to see inter-crew com's for assets as the Stryker, MTLB, basically everthing heavier than the Techie's.
Maybe you don't even need a new Keybinding, do it the ACE³ way and make the Driver, Gunner and Commander positions automatically "radio".

The rest of the Squad would hear them normally speaking, whilst the positions named would hear their mates louder and with a slight radio-filter.
Doesnt clutter controls, allows the Infantry to continue chatting and the Crew to be able to maintain comms at any point.

 
 

+1

 

I think you could also add this to deal with intra-vehicle coms. 

 

In vehicle for commander
- 1st key for squad comms
- 2nd key for vehicle comms
- 3rd key other vehicle commanders or if you were a SL, perhaps add a 4th key for this. 

 

 

Edited by LugNut

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Well the thing is, right, when I think about it atleast.

You have CLEAR and LOUD intra-vehicle local speech, BECAUSE you are INSIDE a box, basically. Generally speaking, when you are inside of a car you don't hear the engine as much as outside. That's one thing.
But also, consider the inter-vehicle comms.
If you have a squad with one vehicle, you have to communicate Vehicle-to-SL-to-SL2/SL2-to-Vehicle2
If you have 2 vehicles, you can talk between each other with squad comms and the lead SL vehicle can talk directly to other vehicle crews that have SL with them.
This way, the mechanics themselves promote running dedicated vehicle squads, because then the SL can coordinate directly with the other vehicle SL.

Another solution, would be to have all armoured vehicle crews have their own channel, instead of the squad-only fireteam channel.

But whatever the implementation, I think now with 80 player servers being quite a decent portion and soon IFVs and heavier vehicles, it's nigh time to expand the comms, whether it be through a complex or simplified and limited system(like I suggested, but which has a purpose).
After all, Squad's main feature and strength is communication. And perhaps because it's a really abstract feature, compared to say a new gun or car, it isn't talked about as much by the community.
But what good is a new set of vehicles or more players on a server, if we can't talk about them, with them and coordinate them in-game with other people as efficiently as possible.

Edited by Peerun

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I think most vehicle assets should probably be a separate squad, so comms wouldn't be an issue for them. For mixed/mechanized/grouped asset squads, you could probably just have the crew for each asset be a separate fireteam, and they could use their own fireteams comms to communicate.

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1 hour ago, Peerun said:

Well the thing is, right, when I think about it atleast.

You have CLEAR and LOUD intra-vehicle local speech, BECAUSE you are INSIDE a box, basically. Generally speaking, when you are inside of a car you don't hear the engine as much as outside. That's one thing.
But also, consider the inter-vehicle comms.
If you have a squad with one vehicle, you have to communicate Vehicle-to-SL-to-SL2/SL2-to-Vehicle2
If you have 2 vehicles, you can talk between each other with squad comms and the lead SL vehicle can talk directly to other vehicle crews that have SL with them.
This way, the mechanics themselves promote running dedicated vehicle squads, because then the SL can coordinate directly with the other vehicle SL.

Another solution, would be to have all armoured vehicle crews have their own channel, instead of the squad-only fireteam channel.

But whatever the implementation, I think now with 80 player servers being quite a decent portion and soon IFVs and heavier vehicles, it's nigh time to expand the comms, whether it be through a complex or simplified and limited system(like I suggested, but which has a purpose).
After all, Squad's main feature and strength is communication. And perhaps because it's a really abstract feature, compared to say a new gun or car, it isn't talked about as much by the community.
But what good is a new set of vehicles or more players on a server, if we can't talk about them, with them and coordinate them in-game with other people as efficiently as possible.

7

 

Except you don't have everyone inside a box, even now, you have some people inside a cab, others in the back of a truck or another compartment. Who knows, we may see options to ride on the outside of vehicles at some point. I'd like to see the ambient volume be realistic to what you have IRL as well as internal coms. If a vehicle has headsets for the crew, the quality of the coms should reflect that. If local becomes vehicle once you are inside with the falloff adjusted to reflect inside noise, that would be great. 

 

I'd like to promote vehicle squads, I think splitting squads to properly operate vehicles weakens them, so you often see a single person manning armor and people leaving logis all over the map. I have yet to see a vehicle squad arise organically in Squad on a public server, where the other SL's agree to let one handle transport, logi and infantry support duties. 

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2 hours ago, Tartantyco said:

I think most vehicle assets should probably be a separate squad, so comms wouldn't be an issue for them. For mixed/mechanized/grouped asset squads, you could probably just have the crew for each asset be a separate fireteam, and they could use their own fireteams comms to communicate.

 

Right, and that's not a problem.
What I meant is a situation where you have a mixed squad. For example, a humvee and then an infantry section.
Now the humvee or humvees - since you can have 4 people mounted and 5 on foot and still be an effective infantry squad on account of the vehicles, especially in more open terrain - can communicate all right with the fireteam comms, but the issue comes in, when the SL is on foot and the vehicle crews need to coordinate with another vehicle crew from a different squad. Then it has to come through 1, possibly 2 SLs, you see? 

 

1 hour ago, LugNut said:

 

Except you don't have everyone inside a box, even now, you have some people inside a cab, others in the back of a truck or another compartment. Who knows, we may see options to ride on the outside of vehicles at some point. I'd like to see the ambient volume be realistic to what you have IRL as well as internal coms. If a vehicle has headsets for the crew, the quality of the coms should reflect that. If local becomes vehicle once you are inside with the falloff adjusted to reflect inside noise, that would be great. 

 

I'd like to promote vehicle squads, I think splitting squads to properly operate vehicles weakens them, so you often see a single person manning armor and people leaving logis all over the map. I have yet to see a vehicle squad arise organically in Squad on a public server, where the other SL's agree to let one handle transport, logi and infantry support duties. 


Yeah, that's exactly what I meant with the headsets.
Ofcourse, there's no real tactical need to have a transport truck communicating DIRECTLY with a Stryker for example(they can still get info from each other, but a split second most likely won't make a difference), so you can have standard local in an open vehicle like a truck or techie, but with an armoured vehicle you are, basically, within an enclosed space - so for one, the sound carries, and two as you said you can have headsets withing the vehicle, also - to come back to the trucks, it might still be worth it, to have atleast the driver in the vehicle comms, IF this is the way they implement it, which I doubt. But in theory anyway.

EDIT: Also, talking in the fireteam comms, wouldn't neccessarily mean not talking local.
For example, with outside local
- a fireteam member within earshot would hear the spoken word, while
- a FTM not within talking distance would hear it in fireteam comms
or in vehicle comms
- while cruising around you talk normally, but
- when shooting or having the sound volume generally exceed a set threshold after which its hard to hear spoken word, then the game would switch into vehicle headset mode automatically, like with the outside FTCMMS

As a result, you'd get both more people using local and operating together in small groups, while the squad voice would naturally become reserved for info directly relevant to the whole squad, and I think this distinction (whole squad vs people you are around OR can see from afar) is still not readily made in Squad.
For example(yes again :) ) : People often use local to alert nearby players to enemies, etc, but when I want to warn someone far off from me, then I have to use the squad chat. If there were fireteams, not only would I be able to do it without cluttering the squad chat, BUT more importantly, to do it, the game would force me to operate within that fireteam, ie if I want my back covered I need people that happen to be in my fireteam looking at me, me looking at them(not literally, but working together). 
What I am trying to say in this part, is that I will often get much better teamplay with a random blueberry over local than a squad member, simply because local is such a powerful tool - it doesnt clutter anyone elses info and it is immedietly relevant.
With squad comms, not only do you have someone talking all the time, but a lot of the time it just results in: well he said there were enemies there and there, at my current speed gonna reach them in 2 minutes hope I don't forget
That's obvously hyperbole, but the point is, that the feed of info is almost constant, WHILE also not being consistent in content/format.
One time you might get a thing that's relevant to one person in 2 minutes, while at other times it might be relevant to 2 squads and come into effect 5 seconds after the fact.

Edited by Peerun

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+1 for fireteam and vehicle comms

 

The reasoning behind having a separate vehicle comms is the infantry will not have to hear everything being said inside, which often causes them to run over and see if something is wrong when it's just you directing the driver into a firing position.

 

Also, it is difficult to hear each other in local chat while in a vehicle (engine sounds, glitchy local VOIP that changes positions while in vehicle, and explosions/squad and infantry comms surrounding you) and often leads the the crew using squad chat. This causes a whole other issue where now the squad chat is being cluttered with 2 guys chattering about how the maneuver into a firing position.

 

Therefore with vehicle chat they can properly hear each other over everything around them, avoid cluttering Squad comms, and not clutter local chat with their vehicle-related squabbling in high-friendly areas.

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8 minutes ago, Catindabox said:

+1 for fireteam and vehicle comms

 

The reasoning behind having a separate vehicle comms is the infantry will not have to hear everything being said inside, which often causes them to run over and see if something is wrong when it's just you directing the driver into a firing position.

 

Also, it is difficult to hear each other in local chat while in a vehicle (engine sounds, glitchy local VOIP that changes positions while in vehicle, and explosions/squad and infantry comms surrounding you) and often leads the the crew using squad chat. This causes a whole other issue where now the squad chat is being cluttered with 2 guys chattering about how the maneuver into a firing position.

 

Therefore with vehicle chat they can properly hear each other over everything around them, avoid cluttering Squad comms, and not clutter local chat with their vehicle-related squabbling in high-friendly areas.


You haven't really adressed fireteam comms although giving it +1, what's your rationale behind that being a priority item?

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18 hours ago, Tartantyco said:

@ChanceBrahh @Peerun Numpad SL-to-SL comms were ditched with squad limits, so those Kickstarter posters are waaay out of date. Anyways, last I heard both SL-to-SL and Fireteam comms were in the works.

Added direct Squad-Leader to Squad-Leader radio communication via the Number Pad. Numbers correspond to the appropriate Squad number. (ie. Numpad 1 for Squad 1)

 

Speak of the devil.

This is essential though. Tired of having someone go "Squad 1, jgfidjgokdrhnjstodrejtoprtjp." And I have to ask them what the hell they said because people were talking over each other in SL chat.

Now it's going to be super simple and people can say actual important things over  the all-squad chat and leave the chitchat to the individual ones.

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Not sure what happened with the last build but the light blue local coms indicator seems to be showing up a lot more while not being able to hear or see anyone close?

Maybe the local chat radius range could be bigger or a separate UI volume slide for incoming local coms might work too.

I would like to see the SL red coms indicator light up for everyone in the squad when SL communicates to other SL's to help minimize over chat. I mean, im all for a bit of in game banter here n there, and as most of you already know, i collect accents then assign them to loop breaks as a hobby. But this game works best when players get serious over coms.

Having the red SL coms indicator light up i would know not to tell SL anything relevant until it clears.

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3 hours ago, Rybec said:

Added direct Squad-Leader to Squad-Leader radio communication via the Number Pad. Numbers correspond to the appropriate Squad number. (ie. Numpad 1 for Squad 1)

 

Speak of the devil.

This is essential though. Tired of having someone go "Squad 1, jgfidjgokdrhnjstodrejtoprtjp." And I have to ask them what the hell they said because people were talking over each other in SL chat.

Now it's going to be super simple and people can say actual important things over  the all-squad chat and leave the chitchat to the individual ones.

 

I don't read anything about restricting the number of squads to 9(Which they shouldn't do, either), so that's odd.

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Not needed, provided proximity comms can overcome engine noise. Adding an automatic intercom when in a vehicle might help, since it would use the same key as proximity and not add any confusion. Fireteam comms are completely unnecessary, especially since 99% of squads don't utilise individual fireteams (especially static ones, normally they just select a few random people to send somewhere), and any squad that's coordinating at that level is going to have enough radio discipline anyway.

 

The last thing I think anyone wants is something like an ACRE style radio system being added.

 

Edited by Kerri

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Should also note the one instance where I think there could be more communication options is in regards to inter-vehicle communication, as people are discussing. Logistic truck drivers communicating with each other, Stryker commander communicating with an infantry squad leader.

 

However, in most cases, the Stryker driver is already part of the infantry squad it's tasked with transporting. Same with logistics, it's normally a designated squad member who's been tasked with running supplies from main, not an independent driver.

 

I imagine once the maps, vehicles and assets flesh out more in-line with PR, the squad meta will change accordingly. I didn't play much PR, but I do recall designated tank platoon squads, all logistics vehicles being assigned to a single logistics squad. I even believe transport duties were outsourced to their own squad, meaning once a squad was transported, the independent driver could just drive to help another squad rather than the vehicle just being dumped.

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