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Socrates

Rushing - The Game Changer

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Hey everyone. Today, I've experienced some interesting reverse flag capture tactics.

 

Reverse Flag Capture Tactic: 

 

Once the match starts, the team goes all the way to the first flag of the enemy team and stops the enemy from capturing the first flag, which leads to the rest of the flags being uncaptured for an extensive period of time (and maybe for the entire round).

 

What are your thoughts about this tactic? Effective or not effective?

Edited by Socrates

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Happens a lot, first or second flag rush can be successful but needs organised squad against an unprepared team. Can't believe you only just come across now.  Main rush is normally the bleed flag, more chance of success and less push. 

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2 minutes ago, carmikaze said:

Also called rushing, which is forbidden on some servers, lol.

Woah I didn't know that was forbidden.

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It's a tactic unlikely to work out. It'll only work if the team is slow off the mark to cap that first point. It can be caped before the opposing team can even get there and then it doesn't matter.

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Rushing takes away the essence of the game. I'm hoping it's just an Alpha thang and we won't be able to rush in the final game or if we do, it's punishable. I'm hoping that by release, or at least Beta, Squad will become what I thought it was going to become, a grand strategy of a game. 

 

I think rushing is the most effective tactic on some maps as it disrupts the entire enemy teams plans. But I think this game was supposed to be slower and more methodical. 

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I have never seen rushing the enemy's first flag used myself, I am sure it happens but rarely.

Rushing the bleed flag, sure it's used alot and works well if you pull it off, I think the imbalance is more around it takes an organised team vs an unorganised team as opposed to the tactic itself.

 

I guess different game modes will help this, as AAS is what it say's on the label and it is hardly easy to rush with teams being equal in experience and skill etc.

The main issue is us, the players and the faction advantages re optics and vehicles right now. But it's kinda what makes it fun and kinda forces different tactics if you wanna win as one of the weaker factions.

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What on earth are you people talking about? First flag rushing is the predominant strategy on the maps where it's possible(Gorodok, for instance), and rushing past the center flag is the primary strategy in Squad. It's the primary strategy in PR, as well. The linear cap order of AAS incentivizes and rewards it. As long as it remains the main game mode in Squad, the rushing strategy will remain the primary one.

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2 hours ago, Socrates said:

Hey everyone. Today, I've experienced some interesting reverse flag capture tactics.

 

Reverse Flag Capture Tactic: 

 

Once the match starts, the team goes all the way to the first flag of the enemy team and stops the enemy from capturing the first flag, which leads to the rest of the flags being uncaptured for an extensive period of time (and maybe for the entire round).

 

What are your thoughts about this tactic? Effective or not effective?

 

It's fair game at the present time. We could've a capturing mechanic's like we'd in DF/JointOps,you had to capture your Bases/flags in sequences before your enemies bases/flags could become captured!?.

 

Just an idea I'm throwing out.

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4 hours ago, Xx-RAGING-DEATH-xX said:

 

It's fair game at the present time. We could've a capturing mechanic's like we'd in DF/JointOps,you had to capture your Bases/flags in sequences before your enemies bases/flags could become captured!?.

 

Just an idea I'm throwing out.

 

That's how it works currently in the AAS game mode in Squad. You have to cap the flags in a linear order, and that's why the rushing strategy works.

 

The purpose of rushing is not to cap the enemy's first flag, but to stop the enemy from capping any flags while you're still able to cap past the center line. You drop off one guy on each of your own flags and then rush the majority of your team to the furthest flag ahead you can rush, with an SL or two dropping and supplying FOBs in the back. If the rush fails, you just respawn on a forward FOB and contest the center. If the rush succeeds, you've forced the enemy team into playing offensively or losing. If they sit back on defense, you'll just win on the ticket bleed. If they go offensive, you can just put your entire team on defense while they still have to keep at least someone on their defensive flag, reducing the chances of them being successful in their attack.

 

Rushing is not effective in Conquest mode because you can't stop the entire cap progress of a team by rushing one flag, you can just stop them from capping that one flag. That's why I support removing or de-emphasizing the AAS game mode in favor of Conquest mode or an adjacency-based capping game mode. The AAS game mode is a major contributing factor to the stale gameplay currently in the game.

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2 hours ago, Tartantyco said:

 

That's how it works currently in the AAS game mode in Squad. You have to cap the flags in a linear order, and that's why the rushing strategy works.

 

Rushing is not effective in Conquest mode because you can't stop the entire cap progress of a team by rushing one flag, you can just stop them from capping that one flag. That's why I support removing or de-emphasizing the AAS game mode in favor of Conquest mode or an adjacency-based capping game mode. The AAS game mode is a major contributing factor to the stale gameplay currently in the game.

 

That's why the AAS game mode in SQUAD feels so overly repetitive to me. The mechanics are linear in nature, you always know where the opposing team is starting from and where they have to go first. So then it's just rush rush rush.

 

Conquest and even Insurgency are more dynamic, but unfortunately don't get much play-time. They provide the most satisfying game play for me, as they require more coordination than the linear nature of AAS.

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The game calls for tactics and everyone uses their own to achieve victory. If we are playing on a map with 6 objectives total than ideally each team would cap 3 before fighting. Having no rush means that you would always fight in the same middle objectives. The point of rushing is to surprise the enemy team and hit them behind their lines. The whole team doesn't usually go, just one squad and they try to hold it until the rest of the team catches up by capping the rest of the objectives. It works well because majority of time teams send 1 person (ONE PERSON) to cap the early points. Nobody should be going alone to cap any objective - bad idea. We usually capitalize on this by killing the lone enemy capping and defend the uncapped objective for as long as we can. This forces the enemy team to send more reinforcements to our position which takes pressure off of the rest of our team when trying to cap the points leading up to the one my squad is currently defending. They have to take our position in order to cap anything. To me, it is simply a tactic - I really don't find anything cheap about it. In order to combat it, you can do a couple things: 1) Start sending a squad to the 1st or 2nd point, not just one person. This way when the enemy team rushes you, you will be waiting for them. 2) You take a squad and rush the enemy, see who can hold out the longest. Eventually, one side will cave in. 3) Complain to Squad Devs to make the maps bigger (don't actually do this) but ideally, if the maps were bigger than it'd be harder to rush. It usually works for my group about 80% of the time, and even though it is one of the plays in my playbook, I can see it dying down over time as the game progresses.

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This "cheap tactic" happened yesterday evening on the "We ♥ Squad"-Server against my team, Militia on OP First Light.
People were complaining about it and saying its a stupid thing and it should be against the rules since it "takes away the fun".
We lost terribly because only me in a technical with a gunner were sent to the first flag and we got surprised by a humvee with a full squad in it which killed us in seconds since yeah, the militia only got a cheap technical with no protection for the gunner (no complaining about the technical, just letting you know that we didn't have a chance).
After that, of course someone had to take out that humvee to cap that very first flag but to make this happen of course some of the people which already were going to the "expected frontline" had to move back. We lost terribly since till reinforcement arrived the enemy had probably all his squads in the capzone of the flag. And how I experienced it everyone just tried to go in from the west (since in the west where the other flags which we couldn't cap without the first flag), got annihilated and then they just ragequit. After my Squadleader left, I tried to make the best out of the situation like talking to other squad leads and trying to engange from a different angle or trying to find the enemy FOB. Well, we did find out the location. They've put their FOB right in the middle of the capzone and built a super duper ultra FOB which was also smart and NOT unfair.

I don't know what they are talking about when they say "rushing should be forbidden " or "you are killing the joy for new players". 

Just because you get totally overwhelmed by a tactic you call cheap, doesn't make the tactic cheap. It actually makes the tactic awesome and you should prepare for it which imo most people don't do. They just expect the enemy to do exactly what they are thinking he will do. But isn't Squad about outsmarting the enemy? Isn't rushing just so effective because people don't prepare for it and some people know most people don't prepare for it? How much fun would it be if a humvee with a full squad goes to the first flag of the enemy and just gets blown up and achieved nothing other than loosing a lot of tickets right at the start of the game because the other team was there first and took advantage of that? The meta will after that probably change and we will see some new awesome tactics and I am really looking forward to that. This game has so much potential and I am really sad that there are so many people who are kind of offended by rushing and leave the game. Therefore, in my opinion "smart tactics" (WHICH IS KIND OF THE ESSENCE OF THIS GAME) get less popular and the game will not become what it wants to be but just another "casual game". (probably a bit harsh but well, kind of)

In my opinion, (some people) of the community doesn't even know what they want. They want a tactic-shooter but they don't want to get outsmarted by the enemy.


What do you guys think?

BTW: I really love to be squad leader but there are way better squad leaders than me out there and I still try to learn from them before I will make one day a squad called "GER MIC" at the beginning of the game and ppl rush into that squad :D

 

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8 hours ago, Verdin said:

 

That's why the AAS game mode in SQUAD feels so overly repetitive to me. The mechanics are linear in nature, you always know where the opposing team is starting from and where they have to go first. So then it's just rush rush rush.

 

Conquest and even Insurgency are more dynamic, but unfortunately don't get much play-time. They provide the most satisfying game play for me, as they require more coordination than the linear nature of AAS.

 

 

I'll agree with this to a degree, the fact that the maps show where the initial spawns are (Main) and where all the caps are, will always mean that the gameplay will begin to follow patterns with players learning the best places to drop fobs, send one squad to this cap, one behind the lines, one to that cap etc. The devs have talked about it in the past, but random caps and I think random initial spawns might make it into the game and would help out. If you didn't know where the initial spawns were, it would make it that much riskier for squads to rush the first caps and also to clowncar behind enemy lines dropping radios. Dropping radios anywhere and everywhere will no longer be viable once logisitics are in place, which I will welcome. 

 

I personally like Insurgency, I think it needs some refining, but I enjoy it. 

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I have a long time dream for an open random start game mode on Kohat I just havent had the time to finish it.. It started! 

 

essentially each team would GENERALLY start opposite each other (within a large arc) and they have no main base. FIrst order of business is to establish a base wherever they want then capture objectives which would be conquest style caps and could supply weapons, vehicles and/or supplies. 

 

 

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50 minutes ago, IrOnTaXi said:

I have a long time dream for an open random start game mode on Kohat I just havent had the time to finish it.. It started! 

 

essentially each team would GENERALLY start opposite each other (within a large arc) and they have no main base. FIrst order of business is to establish a base wherever they want then capture objectives which would be conquest style caps and could supply weapons, vehicles and/or supplies. 

 

 

Hmm, lets say they decided not to set their first base.... what happens after that? :o

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54 minutes ago, Socrates said:

Hmm, lets say they decided not to set their first base.... what happens after that? :o

Big trouble or fun tactics?  we would have to see..  certainly not a very public game mode but whitelist servers would have a blast i think

 

I will see if I can finish the first experimental pass for the next a10 release. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, IrOnTaXi said:

Big trouble or fun tactics?  we would have to see..  certainly not a very public game mode but whitelist servers would have a blast i think

 

I will see if I can finish the first experimental pass for the next a10 release. 

 

 

My concern if the team doesn't set a main base and continues a rush, everyone would end up no longer having any spawn point to respawn at and the game stops :O.

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4 minutes ago, Socrates said:

My concern if the team doesn't set a main base and continues a rush, everyone would end up no longer having any spawn point to respawn at and the game stops :O.

well. its doesnt stop.. one team loses.. and one team wins.  as i said.. not a game mode for your average public server. 

 

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48 minutes ago, IrOnTaXi said:

well. its doesnt stop.. one team loses.. and one team wins.  as i said.. not a game mode for your average public server. 

 

There could be a possible option in which you have ~15 minutes to set a starting base or the game will automatically end.

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7 hours ago, Socrates said:

Was this an issue in the old clan match battles?

 

Rushing has been used by clans since as early as January 2016. It is an old infantry meta from CPA/Pre-Steam which has been given steroids with V7 and vehicles.

 

 

4 hours ago, IrOnTaXi said:

I have a long time dream for an open random start game mode on Kohat I just havent had the time to finish it.. It started! 

 

essentially each team would GENERALLY start opposite each other (within a large arc) and they have no main base. FIrst order of business is to establish a base wherever they want then capture objectives which would be conquest style caps and could supply weapons, vehicles and/or supplies. 

 

 

 

I like this idea a lot. Teams could prioritise their "supply points" which would make gameplay fresh, at least for a while. 

 

 

I think the main issue with AAS right now is you have limited options. Clans and public players rush because they think it's the most effective, and everyone is stuck in this limbo of both teams rushing and there being 20 minutes of 1 flag capped each, everyone is chasing their tales trying to get a grip of the round. It's gotten old fast and I'm sure it's a contribution to the drop in player numbers recently.

I know there is a large part of the community who are looking forward to game mechanics which slow the pace down and offer new ways of gameplay. 

 

 

The rush has gotten old. We want a new meta!

Edited by BLITZA

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There technically is a new meta:

 

Team A stays in main base entire game and sets up a FOB in main base safezone. Sets up machine guns,etc. and wait for the enemy team to capture the flags.

Team B will fail to kill Team A inside their safezone while Team A can fire and kill Team B from inside their safezone.

 

If I'm correct, fresh flags at the start of the game do not incur penalties of tickets on the other team.

 

That means Team A wins the game despite all flags being captured by Team B as long as no one leaves main base safezone.

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