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SpecialAgentJohnson

Why is development so slow? / prioritization

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13 minutes ago, Spinelli said:

The only thing that really bothers me, at this stage of development, is still not having a REAL sniper class. But I think when the bipods is implemented, it will be a high priority.

 

It's already been stated that chances are there will be no specified sniper class. Closest thing to that will be the Marksman class once deeper zoom scopes are developed.

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35 minutes ago, Spinelli said:

The only thing that really bothers me, at this stage of development, is still not having a REAL sniper class. But I think when the bipods is implemented, it will be a high priority.

 

We're not getting real snipers, the developers don't believe they fit in the gameplay they are trying to achieve with squad, and I agree. They don't want wookies off in the hills. It's been discussed many a time, I'll see if I can find a source.

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We're not getting real snipers, the developers don't believe they fit in the gameplay they are trying to achieve with squad, and I agree. They don't want wookies off in the hills. It's been discussed many a time, I'll see if I can find a source.


It could be pretty cool to have 1x sniper squad available in each team but only after a certain amount of normal squads have been created. Maybe a 4 man Squad comprising 2x snipers and 2x spotters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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7 hours ago, KaB said:

Noone expected all the work we'd have to get through in order to release the game we want back when this page was made. That's the reason 'expected' was put there, instead of 'due'.

 

So you're saying in late Nov 2016 when both pages were updated to reflect mid 2017, OWI still didn't know how much work you'd have to go through to release the game?

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14 minutes ago, Verdin said:

 

So you're saying in late Nov 2016 when both pages were updated to reflect mid 2017, OWI still didn't know how much work you'd have to go through to release the game?

 

I don't know where you're getting that timeframe as the last time they updated it, but even so, who knows if they may have updated a part of the page, or added things to it. I don't expect them to update every little detail when they have more important work to get done.

 

This is similar to the internal documentation on the software I work on, which is incredibly out of date, as we're too busy actually creating/updating/fixing the product.

 

Edit: Yeah I see the addition of the content block on a Wayback Machine now.

Edited by DoctorKamikaze

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21 minutes ago, DoctorKamikaze said:

 

I don't know where you're getting that timeframe as the last time they updated it, but even so, who knows if they may have updated a part of the page, or added things to it. I don't expect them to update every little detail when they have more important work to get done.

 

 

That time frame came from a post Mr Fishy (a developer) made on the Steam forums linking directly to OWI's updated press page, and subsequently updated the Steam store page to reflect the same.

 

How is it similar to the internal documentation on the software you work on, when it's publicly stated on OWI's press page, as well as the store page where they advertise and sell the game?  It's not some internal memo that somehow got leaked to the public.

 

What OWI is disseminating to the public could be construed as misleading and confuse the general consumer. Sure, those invested in the forums or who have been following the development know it's balderdash, but "Joe gamer" who just heard about the game doesn't.  If someone goes to the store page and reads that the game is expected to come out of early access and release mid 2017, that would be an indication that the game should be pretty far along in development...which it clearly isn't. 

 

Why not be more forthright or realistic and state that the game is expected to reach final release sometime like Q1 or Q2 of 2018?  That way, an earlier release can potentially make OWI look better, among other things.

 

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43 minutes ago, Verdin said:

How is it similar to the internal documentation on the software you work on

 

Pretty easy, this document has been updated in 4 months, just like documents that I see internally. I was talking about the time-frame in which they update them. Plans change, and at the time 4 months ago they thought they would get it out by mid 2017; that is how it is similar. They just don't have the time to keep it up to date to their plans.

Edited by DoctorKamikaze

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4 minutes ago, DoctorKamikaze said:

 

Pretty easy, this document has been updated in 4 months, just like documents that I see internally. I was talking about the time-frame in which they update them. Plans change, and at the time 4 months ago they thought they would get it out by mid 2017; that is how it is similar. They just don't have the time to keep it up to date to their plans.

 

I looked it up, the post by the developer was made Nov 26th 2016...

 

Given the state of the game then, If they actually thought 3 months ago they could release the final version of the game in that time frame...then I'd be really concerned about the development and what the final release of SQUAD would consist of.

 

Your internal documents are not released to the public and are not used to advertise and sell the software you're working on. There's a distinct difference. 

 

If they don't have time to keep the store page where they actually sell the game up to date, then don't advertise unrealistic expectations to the general consumer.  They could easily give themselves some breathing room and project sometime in 2018. If the game reaches the final version early, they look all the better for it and there's not potential misleading or misinformation.

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11 hours ago, SpecialAgentJohnson said:

When you say no sarcasm intended it is hard to tell if you are being sarcastic (my guess) or not. 

I wasn't. I meant what I said!

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Development is far from being slow. There's a lot of stuff in-game that is not in yet, but the work is being done on them. We don't see everything OWI is doing or has done.A lot of things are waiting on the new systems to be implemented before they stream out other content. Monthly updates gives an idea of what they're doing, and the progress is fantastic, especially for such a small team.

Too many people are too used to this "Early access/Alpha" deadly cycle which development is so fast, it leaves a broken mess behind and people then move on to the next hyped alpha. Squad is not one of those games, Squad is aiming for longevity in it's life cycle. The devs are focusing on quality over quantity. People need to refind patience that they once had 5 years ago, when games took 2 - 3 years of development.

Devs also release content that corelated to each other. We got new RPG ammo and AT grenades with the first vehicles. We got new VFX with new statics etc etc With the stryker we'll probably get IEDs along side the UK faction(Speculation). The devs release content that matches current builds of the game, so we don't have super dominance on one side.

 

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Reading this entire topic,  the underlying theme is.  "When are we getting choppers?"  sad, just sad.

Edited by chaz69

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9 hours ago, DoctorKamikaze said:

 

We're not getting real snipers, the developers don't believe they fit in the gameplay they are trying to achieve with squad, and I agree. They don't want wookies off in the hills. It's been discussed many a time, I'll see if I can find a source.


I'm really sad about this, because the sniper class plays an important role in a war. Even if it's a weak class or even insignificant at the CQC or against a vehicle. I understand, however, that the sniper class can be overpowered if not well implemented.
I like how it works in Metal Gear V Online, where you can find the sniper when he's aiming by the reflection of the scope (like a reflection of the sun in a mirror). In this way, you have time to seek cover or counter attack, maybe with the mortars or other types of long distance attack (tank, helicopter, or bazooka, etc)...

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14 minutes ago, Spinelli said:


I'm really sad about this, because the sniper class plays an important role in a war. Even if it's a weak class or even insignificant at the CQC or against a vehicle. I understand, however, that the sniper class can be overpowered if not well implemented.
I like how it works in Metal Gear V Online, where you can find the sniper when he's aiming by the reflection of the scope (like a reflection of the sun in a mirror). In this way, you have time to seek cover or counter attack, maybe with the mortars or other types of long distance attack (tank, helicopter, or bazooka, etc)...

Sniper has been re designed dmr for all intense and purposes. Check out the sdk, I am sure people will mod it. 

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On 2/15/2017 at 6:25 AM, SpecialAgentJohnson said:

Hard to see how MBTs make life easier for the militia which probably won't have any

 

I don't know what the devs have ruled in or out with regard to MBTs, but it wouldn't be out of character for militia and insurgents to have T-55s or T-62s.

Edited by Graphic

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This game is constantly evolving, growing, improving, and providing endless hours of fun. To be honest, if they simply released a complete game with nothing more to add, the game would be dead within a year at best. Just see every other EA game, and you can hardly call those complete.

 

Lately, Squad has felt increasingly more like PR and has garnered nearly all of my limited game time. PR was a game that was never the same and always offered a different challenge. Squad is aspiring to this, and I believe they are on the right track to achieve it. 

 

This game would have died like so many others had they simply tried to dump unfinished content on the masses and hoped for the best. I for one am content with the schedule that they have laid out, and for the most part, I believe they have stuck to and or exceeded. 

 

How many games have you shelled out good money for only to find out that whatever you bought was an unfinished, final product? Too many, I'm sure.

 

This is long ball. These guys are dedicated to the community because the community is dedicated to them. Neither one would exist without the other. 

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6 hours ago, Spinelli said:


I'm really sad about this, because the sniper class plays an important role in a war. Even if it's a weak class or even insignificant at the CQC or against a vehicle. I understand, however, that the sniper class can be overpowered if not well implemented.
I like how it works in Metal Gear V Online, where you can find the sniper when he's aiming by the reflection of the scope (like a reflection of the sun in a mirror). In this way, you have time to seek cover or counter attack, maybe with the mortars or other types of long distance attack (tank, helicopter, or bazooka, etc)...

 

 

Real snipers spend days just getting into position and often don't even fire a shot. Rather, they provide intel on enemy movement and report on high-priority targets, such as a single individual. This depends on the theater and mission of course, but it goes without saying that this type of mission is hardly conducive to a fun, multiplayer FPS experience. It's like watching paint dry except you have to piss in your pants.

 

There are plenty of lone-wolfers that grab a marksman kit and go off by themselves to fit the sniper role typically played in an FPS. Camping. 

 

 

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7 hours ago, chaz69 said:

Reading this entire topic,  the underlying theme is.  "When are we getting choppers?"  sad, just sad.

Chopper are part of the development so... It also expands the game into the z-axis so that gameplay is not only limited to the ground, that is why they are so crucial. They also have limited interaction with the surroundings so should be much easier to implement a placeholder chopper than a placeholder vehicle of any kind. Choppers were prob the best part of PR. Shooting them down too. 

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18 hours ago, Spinelli said:

The only thing that really bothers me, at this stage of development, is still not having a REAL sniper class. But I think when the bipods is implemented, it will be a high priority.

They pretty much said that snipers wornt be implemented. Sniper are pretty much never teamplayers and because of this we wornt see them. Perhaps a mod will add them, but dont expect them in core game.

17 hours ago, RipGroove said:


It could be pretty cool to have 1x sniper squad available in each team but only after a certain amount of normal squads have been created. Maybe a 4 man Squad comprising 2x snipers and 2x spotters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Make a mod. It wornt be made by devs. Think this is a good decition. Will be enough things that can kill inf from a distance where you cant shoot back.

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16 hours ago, Guan_Yu007 said:

Maybe limit sniper kits to two per team, then again you could limit marksman to like 3 per team.

No leave it out. Generally snipers are the worst in online multiplayer games. Ok some might be good spotters and use their scope to report enemy movement. Most will just be on a hill getting kills.

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1 hour ago, CR8Z said:

 

Real snipers spend days just getting into position and often don't even fire a shot. Rather, they provide intel on enemy movement and report on high-priority targets, such as a single individual. This depends on the theater and mission of course, but it goes without saying that this type of mission is hardly conducive to a fun, multiplayer FPS experience. It's like watching paint dry except you have to piss in your pants.

 

There are plenty of lone-wolfers that grab a marksman kit and go off by themselves to fit the sniper role typically played in an FPS. Camping. 

 

 

This +1000. Snipers in video games = people wo like to get kills at distance where they aren't in any danger themselves. My experience as SL is snipers almost never follow squad, often they spawn on wrong locations (because they think they can get more kill there) and so on. This of cause often to all classes (yesterday i had to kick a GL guy for the same), but with the other classes it is hard to predict who is going to run of. Markmens are 90% of the time not teamplayers and this is why i always want a LAT instead.

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Could be making this up, I often do but I recall one of the reasons vehicles implementation was pushed back than originally intended was to enable the devs to insert content; additional vehicles, aviation etc, far easier. Hell I've even seen someone make a heli in the SDK. 

 

Personally I'd much rather the devs take their sweet ass time and implement helis correctly and in a proper manner rather than just rushing them out. Gives us something to look forward to, ya know?

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" Choppers were prob the best part of PR. Shooting them down too.  "

 

so you're already bored/tired of the x-axis fighting. got it.

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