SpecialAgentJohnson

Why is development so slow? / prioritization

81 posts in this topic

I'm not a developer so I can't really speak on their behalf but I can say they are very organised with set schedules in mind,
There is staff meetings all the time and so far the way they have been running things has worked out great for them.

the concept of choppers might seem like some huge game changer but being able to move across the map faster then with a ground vehicle isn't going to be that much more of a game changer, you will spend 30 seconds in a helo then be dropped off somewhere and be on foot again.

and the guy who is working on the multi wheel physics isn't the same guy who is going to be 3D modelling the chopper, or creating the textures or sounds for it, so what should he be doing when the rest are not finished?

Once again, I'm not a developer, I'm just saying it how I see it. (and I have no clue on the status of choppers or what has or hasn't been done, that was an example)

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15 minutes ago, Assifuah said:

 

 

If you truly believe that development speeds up by simply throwing more people into the process you're very mistaken. There are dependencies, from systems and features to downright creating content itself. In fact, and this has been mentioned and demonstrated a million times for various reasons, art assets are pretty much the most common thing more manpower will speed up. However, all that does is create a backlog of assets waiting to be fully implemented into the game.. so even though you think throwing 30 more devs into the team will make the update frequency sky rocket, it won't - team members are dependent on other team members. Joe the Artist can't implement the 15 weapons he's worked on if Ben the Animator is busy working on other features that are a cornerstone of an entire system.

 

Money isn't a huge issue. Manpower isn't a huge issue either - while 30 more devs would speed things up here and there, they're not going to spend months hiring the right people (because you don't just hire any random dude.... this is a tight knit team, people HAVE to fit in) just to satisfy your personal feeling of not enough content updates being pushed out.

 

Also, from your original post - "minuscule improvement per month"? Game are made in iterations / cycles. They're not made in a fashion that is supposed to cater purely to the player / consumer, they're made in a way that yields the best results in terms of introducing new content, features and polishing them as well as working out testing and squashing bugs. Additionally, the devs are working on things we won't see for another 6 months, as they always have. There's a lot more being developed than there is shown in the recaps or released at any give time.

 

I would recommend you read up some articles on production and/or game development in general. It seems like you have a skewed understanding of how games are actually made. :P

I haven't said I truly believe that twice the people twice as fast. As I said I am a developer myself. However if some bottleneck people work part-time because of a money issue then maybe they could work full-time with more money and other dependent dude that has too much free time or whatever could also work faster because he is not bottle-necked by the first dude. Money could be an issue, I am not saying it is though (do you know it isn't btw?). More of a question really. Also there usually are some libraries or stuff that can be developed in parallel.

 

Look I am not saying there can't be no legit reasons for slow progress. I am saying: Please remember to focus on customer satisfaction instead of coder's satisfaction. It is well-known that the last 20% of perfecting a product may well cost as much as the first 80% of the product. So, sure we want the perfect product, but I'd rather have 80% decent product now than 20% perfect product now if you catch my drift. 

 

I feel this thread going into a trench-warfare state starting to seem to imply the developers aren't doing a good job. Which they are. It is meant as constructive criticism that may or may not be applicable to the team but if no-one points it out, then if it happens to be applicable to the team, then no value-priority focus shift can be expected.

 

And maybe, yes, I am just frustrated, us not having those darned helicopters that made PR so incredibly cool yet. 

 

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Uniforms are done by the art team, not programmers. Adding N wheeled vehicles and stuff is a must in order to get the systems in place to improve vehicles. The things you think are minuscule are in fact MAJOR for the continuation and production of Squad. Things have to be done in order, otherwise we will be having to undo things later on which would be a waste of man hours.

 

The animations are a must as well to improve performance, so in our book, this is major.

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21 minutes ago, Spectral said:

Uniforms are done by the art team, not programmers. Adding N wheeled vehicles and stuff is a must in order to get the systems in place to improve vehicles. The things you think are minuscule are in fact MAJOR for the continuation and production of Squad. Things have to be done in order, otherwise we will be having to undo things later on which would be a waste of man hours.

 

The animations are a must as well to improve performance, so in our book, this is major.

Ok, thanks for answer from actual developer.

 

Would more money, more experienced devs help you guys? What is bottleneck right now? Could you sleep faster do you think? 

 

When can we see choppers would you say? Someone said end of this year... 

 

Edited by SpecialAgentJohnson

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Best answer I can give you as to when you will see aerial assets is when they are finished and ready to be released. There is no sense in speculating on dates at this point. 

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The bottlwneck is completing the re write of important systems to make the game function better and do the things they need them to do going forward with all the content that is needed. If they don't do it now and just implement stuff, then they will be wasting a ton of time fixing everything later. As far as those helicopters you got a bone about, your just going to have to wait until the end of the year or more for them to drop. 

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Can we re-title this thread to "I want choppers and I want them now?"

"9 women can't have a baby in a month." - software development proverb

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Or, how about "9 women can have at least a baby and artwork and maybe a baby-cot etc, in a month"-software development.

 

Artwork is parallel you heard him say himself. 

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Well, since this topic brings up a lot of questions about the release date of certain assets, something is not particularly clear to me. In Steam the end of alpha version is said to be at the end of 2017. So, does it mean that 2018 will be the year for the beta testing?

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Every long lasting building is built on solid foundations. That's what the devs are doing now. Building those foundations. They got bitten before with poorly done animations and have had to go back and redo them. They've learned that lesson and now I see them making very solid, steady moves forward. Once they have the solid underpinnings I am sure new items built on top will come thick and fast. Don't forget they're learning to get the best from UE4 even as it's being developed.

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10 hours ago, RevolT said:

Well, since this topic brings up a lot of questions about the release date of certain assets, something is not particularly clear to me. In Steam the end of alpha version is said to be at the end of 2017. So, does it mean that 2018 will be the year for the beta testing?

 

Final version release is actually advertised as mid 2017, not the end of 2017.  That's complete balderdash though, so I wouldn't put any faith in either one.

 

Just figure on it releasing sometime in 2018, and if by some divine miracle it's earlier...consider it a bonus...lol

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51 minutes ago, Verdin said:

 

Final version release is actually advertised as mid 2017, not the end of 2017.  That's complete balderdash though, so I wouldn't put any faith in either one.

 

Just figure on it releasing sometime in 2018, and if by some divine miracle it's earlier...consider it a bonus...lol

 

Yeah, it seems a bit too far-fetched. I don't mind people being optimistic, but probably the release date will be postponed for half a year at least.

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14 hours ago, SpecialAgentJohnson said:

And maybe, yes, I am just frustrated, us not having those darned helicopters that made PR so incredibly cool yet. 

 



They won't be in til version v1.0.

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1 hour ago, Verdin said:

 

Final version release is actually advertised as mid 2017, not the end of 2017.  That's complete balderdash though, so I wouldn't put any faith in either one.

 

Just figure on it releasing sometime in 2018, and if by some divine miracle it's earlier...consider it a bonus...lol

Nobody said final version. Core features will be complete but the game wont be done done. 

 

1 hour ago, Verdin said:

 

Final version release is actually advertised as mid 2017, not the end of 2017.  That's complete balderdash though, so I wouldn't put any faith in either one.

 

Just figure on it releasing sometime in 2018, and if by some divine miracle it's earlier...consider it a bonus...lol

 

We never advertised a final version.. im not sure where you would have gotten that from. 

 

 

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19 hours ago, SpecialAgentJohnson said:

Why is development so slow? Miniscule improvement per month, like cars with more wheels, stuff like that. Are you guys short on cash or what is the bottleneck? 

 

Also I believe you focus your attention to the wrong things. For instance, all focus seems to be on animations and uniforms, new factions etc that gives very little gain in gameplay enjoyment. If I were you (again I don't know the difficulties you are facing) I would have focused on getting in the big game-changers like helicopters etc first. That is what people are really looking forward to, not British faction whatever. There seems to be too much perfectionism in the development team. My suggestion is: Leave some stuff half-made and don't listen to silly people complaining about the sights of the m4 not being perfectly realistic or whatever. Carv out the big chunks and perfect afterwards. Took years to even get some kind of vehicles and it seems it will take forever to see helicopters coming in as well.

 

Love your game though. If you need money maybe you could start some campaign or something. I am sure a lot of people here would put up. 

I wish there was more people like you on these forums! No sarcasm intended!

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2 hours ago, IrOnTaXi said:

Nobody said final version. Core features will be complete but the game wont be done done. 

 

 

We never advertised a final version.. im not sure where you would have gotten that from. 

 

 

 

It's posted (presumably) by OWI , on your own press page.

Factsheet

Developer:
Offworld Industries
Based in Vancouver, BC, Canada

Release date:
Alpha Early Access - December 2015;

Final Version - Expected mid 2017

 

http://press.joinsquad.com/sheet.php?p=squad

 

The Steam store page also states that the game is expected to come out of early access (commonly translated as final version or full release) mid 2017.

 

So evidently someone in the development team thinks (or thought) you guys were further along in development than you actually are, as those changes were made just a few months ago. 

Edited by Verdin

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If i could only double bold that word "Expected" in your post...

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Expect - regard (something) as likely to happen.

 

Considering the current state of the game, it is most certainly not likely to happen, unless they have some magic elves that are going to be developing while the guys sleep.  lol

 

So either there's a breakdown in communication within OWI, or they're trying to play word games and mislead or confuse people.  I would hope it's the former, rather than the latter.

Edited by Verdin

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Noone expected all the work we'd have to get through in order to release the game we want back when this page was made. That's the reason 'expected' was put there, instead of 'due'.

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I hope you don't ever get into software development, cause you're gonna have a bad time :)

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2 hours ago, shawn7186 said:

I wish there was more people like you on these forums! No sarcasm intended!

When you say no sarcasm intended it is hard to tell if you are being sarcastic (my guess) or not. 

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Personally I think development has gone really well. There are some large maps, plus vehicles and the performance isn't "too" bad really considering.

There's nothing worse than an Early Access game with a ton of features that just simply won't run smooth. As said I'd rather the features we have were smooth and well optimised before too many newer elements are added.

It's a great game exactly how it is IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I'm glad they go steady and don't put in high ticket, but buggy, half finished features.  The game is a long way from finished yes, but at least the features we have in the game now are reliable and consistant.  Of course there are bugs, but you csn never truly rule bugs out of any software.

 

Twenty years in software development has shown me that it's usually the Sales or Marketing departments that insist on features being added that aren't anywhere near ready.  Seen this happen far too often: "Put this in and we get X sales, we need it by tonight", "It's little more than a prototype", "Just finish it later after they place the order"....[rolls eyes].  Thankfully not all companies work that way.

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The only thing that really bothers me, at this stage of development, is still not having a REAL sniper class. But I think when the bipods is implemented, it will be a high priority.

Edited by Spinelli
wrong words

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