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Shadow_

Looking to the future: Asset Squads.

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1 hour ago, Tartantyco said:

 

No, it wasn't. Squad naming rules aren't even the norm for PR servers right now.

 

Are we even living in the same plane of existence? The standard PR squad name rules per asset and role are:

 

Inf

Mech Inf

Mortars

APC

Armour/Tank

Trans

CAS

 

http://prteamwork.com/rules/prbf2/#assets

 

https://www.alwaysbased.com/rules/

 

 

1 hour ago, Tartantyco said:

 

 

 

I read through this through a few months back, and I disagreed with it because it tries to make a complex solution to a very simple problem. It tries to replace simple respawn timers with points accrual. Secondly balancing this is going to be a nightmare. When squad introduces more and more vehicles, that is literally more and more variables that the squad team is going to have to take into account when developing new assets. What if they spawn an ATGM stryker on Kohat? All they would have to do is find a hilltop far from the field of battle and they would have a laughably easy time sniping all of the assets from the enemy team.

The point is this: People will find a way to achieve victory with the easiest layout possible. Instead of teams having to adapt to a situation, the teams will end up just finding the easiest set of vehicles that works for that map and use them. There will no variables for comebacks once a team has the upper hand, furthermore in the event that a slightly overpowered vehicle comes out, what's to stop them from just spawning that vehicle in and focusing all of the teams points on re-spawning it?

 

Edit: Expanding on this, this idea doesn't work because it means if a team gets a bad choice of assets at the start of the game it will literally condemn them to defeat. The enemy team will gain a distinct advantage simply because they chose a better choice of assets. It doesn't make sense to penalize a team because they didn't get a good choice of assets at the start of the game. This is why PR had asset lists for each map, because they knew what worked and what was balanced on each individual map. It works in Planetside 2 because in Planetside 2 there is a selection of vehicles that are based around three or four very big maps. This system would not work on Squad where there are a set number of maps which are vastly different and have completely different game play dynamics and size. You have to remember that the standoff distances between tanks and other heavy assets is going to be huge. What's to stop a tank driving up the hill on Sumari and getting a direct shot on the entrance to the opposing sides main? It's inherently unbalanced.

 

 

1 hour ago, Tartantyco said:

 

No, that is not the alternative. I have already linked to an alternative

Variability means that team can decide for themselves if they want to integrate vehicle asset X or Y with infantry or vehicle asset A or B. It means team get to decide if they want their heavy assets in a single squad, or if they want a separate squad for each heavy asset. The reason why we have a single armor squad with all the armor in it in PR is because the Battlefield 2 engine has a limit on the amount of squads in a team(9 squads). Teams may want to have some heavy assets pooled in one squad while others are in separate squads. They may want to incorporate infantry into various vehicle squads. They may want to mix branches. Again, in PR you frequently have the Transport Choppers in the Logistics squad, so you have somebody flying a chopper, somebody driving a truck, and somebody building FOBs in the same squad.

 


Honestly I think its best we agree to disagree at this point. I honestly don't think the idea of having heavy assets peppered around the team is going to increase interoperability because I feel (and know) that heavy assets never have the same objectives as the regular infantry. As said before for tanks their primary objective is to destroy other tanks, then support the infantry. Transport heli's primary objectives are to ferry troops to their initial drop zones and then bring in supplies and move squads around. Why on earth would you have a single transport helicopter attached to a squad?  You might as well have them all in one squad with an ATC directed them to where they are needed.

 

But again, agree to disagree.

 

1 hour ago, Tartantyco said:

 

The problem here is that you think that just because any squad can currently claim any vehicle, that means squads are constantly trying to nab every vehicle they can find. First of all, you need 3 people minimum in a squad currently to be able to claim a vehicle. Secondly, you need SL+1 or SM+2 and claim approval to get a vehicle. Thirdly, there are restrictions on the amount of vehicles a squad can have and lose at the same time.

 

 

But they already do. For example any map with BTR's. they will get snatched by the first squads that get to them, it's not because they are looking to waste them, its because they know that BTR's are a potent force when mixed with infantry and therefore their squad can get a distinct advantage. The same applies to the CROWS humvee. It's rare that you see a CROWS sitting in main because usually a squad will get them as quickly as possible.

 

1 hour ago, Tartantyco said:

 

The problem isn't people just running around snatching up any vehicle they can find. The problem is people not knowning how to use vehicle assets wanting to use vehicle assets. Your suggestion does nothing to stop this. Nothing about making special asset squads restricts people from just making asset squads to access the asset squads. You don't seem to understand this very basic thing.

 

 

So new players shouldn't be able to use vehicle assets? I get that it's annoying when a tank squad on PR does a bad job but just excluding them from the equation doesn't solve anything. In fact it fosters elitism which will lead to even more toxicity. I get that have competent players in control of heavy assets is favorable, but having that one guy teach the newbie in PR on how to properly play the tank is something that made that game special and it fosters a nicer community where people actually try to help each other out in stead of ostracizing each other when things don't go to plan.  

 

Furthermore my suggestion isn't designed for stopping unskilled players getting assets. That's not the point.

 

Edited by Shadow_

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I suggest we take a step back and relax - start posting with a little more respect towards others. Everyone has their own personal opinion about things, there is no need to start getting arsey about it.

 

I have cleaned up most of this thread. Don't fill it with more passive aggressive or sarcastic posts, otherwise it'll just get locked.

 

If you don't have anything to post with actual content and contribution to the topic at hand, don't post at all.

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If I understand the main point of this thread, which is, instead of create and name the squad, you want to have a pre-made squad with its own kits, if that's the case, I'm pretty sure other threads done this before, long time ago.

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14 hours ago, Tartantyco said:

@Rayman1230 We've had this disucssion tens of times already. Nothing about asset squads makes gameplay better. That's why we dismiss it. There's no shortage of actual suggestions that provide actual solutions to issues.

 

 

 

Which would suggest to me that other players actually feel the same way. My only thought is if we, the players, are bringing this issue forward, its already been thought of somewhere else beyond us. I guess at the end of the day, we will just have to wait and see.

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1 minute ago, Rayman1230 said:

 

Which would suggest to me that other players actually feel the same way. My only thought is if we, the players, are bringing this issue forward, its already been thought of somewhere else beyond us. I guess at the end of the day, we will just have to wait and see.

 

We've also had dozens of discussions about mandatory tutorials to use certain assets and kits, and all kinds of cooky things. I wouldn't read too much into it. The devs have already said they have no interest in introducing asset squads.

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On 2/15/2017 at 8:02 PM, Tartantyco said:

 

We've also had dozens of discussions about mandatory tutorials to use certain assets and kits, and all kinds of cooky things. I wouldn't read too much into it. The devs have already said they have no interest in introducing asset squads.

 

Developer's interests change ;) Especially at the behest of the community.

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What if OWI were to add this system, but allow server owners to adjust/create what squad types/kits-per-squad you can choose in the server settings?

(So basically you can create and tweak your own squad types as a server owner)

 

Would that make everyone happy?

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56 minutes ago, Axton said:

What if OWI were to add this system, but allow server owners to adjust/create what squad types/kits-per-squad you can choose in the server settings?

(So basically you can create and tweak your own squad types as a server owner)

 

Would that make everyone happy?

 

 

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On 2/24/2017 at 3:15 PM, Tartantyco said:

 

 

 

That pertains to your suggestion, which is not what he was talking about.

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freedom

 

and

 

ability to adjust on the fly

 

Please:

dont break it with limits, dont waste time on limits.

 

spend more time making more maps.

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I had this idea too some time ago, but now after some thinking and hearing others views on the idea. I feel that it will be too limiting for public play. Having kit restrictions based on squad names, stops players from thinking out of the box.

 

But a dropdown menu for some standard squad names would be cool. Just the names, not restricting what kit squad members can take.

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We were defending Hilltop yesterday when I noticed there was an empty 30 mm BTR sitting just outside the walls. It continued to sit there, unoccupied, for 20+ minutes before we were attacked and a LAT destroyed it easily. Tired of seeing random squads grab APCs/IFVs and misuse them. I hate not being able to get on SL comms and ask an APC squad to support our advance. Need those dedicated squads...

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THE FUTURE IS NOW!!!!!

 

everything you guys are say can be done right this moment.

 

SERVER ADMINS! start telling every one that you can not use a BTR unless you are in a squad with the squad named BTR or LArmor or something.

other wise they will get kicked. this is something my clan is considering and may start doing as soon as next week.

 

now you have asset squads and its run just like PR. the only problem with this is that its gonna take ALL of the server admins to say and enforce this.

 

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On 14/02/2017 at 10:53 PM, Aniallator said:

In Squad right now, the vehicle claim system does exactly what is was designed to do; stop any player from just grabbing a vehicle and driving off. While I agree that vehicle claiming wouldn't be necessary for heavy asset squads, I think it absolutely needs to be kept in place for Infantry Squads. The only reason randoms lone wolfing a vehicle is Squad right now is rare is because of the vehicle claim system, even if it can be annoying at times.

It does! But it cringes me out on how unorganized apcs are! there is zero cooperation, zero teamplay, all I see is random squads taking the BTRs/Strykers and doing nothing, they don't set up on overlook positions, they don't hunt for other apcs, they do nothing, and most times people one man them as some sort of glorified transport truck. If Squad wants to add real assets like ATGM armed IFVs, Tanks, AT Vehicles such as TOW Humvee or Anti Air Missile trucks (9k35 Gopher and Avenger) we need the system in place from PR. Why? Because it works.

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Posted (edited)
On 03/03/2017 at 5:38 PM, Igno said:

I had this idea too some time ago, but now after some thinking and hearing others views on the idea. I feel that it will be too limiting for public play. Having kit restrictions based on squad names, stops players from thinking out of the box.

 

But a dropdown menu for some standard squad names would be cool. Just the names, not restricting what kit squad members can take.

 

Huh, and here I was, wondering what all the fuss was about when I had already assumed that was what everyone was going to do anyway.

Actually restricting specific vehicles to specific squads is very problematic considering we're only getting more and more assets, and factions are not all the same. Some have better potential for MecInf, some can have some sort of AirCav thing going on. If we just restrict a specific squad to ALWAYS be the only one able to drive APCs, or Helis, then those sorts of scenarios are made needlesly harder. Just add a little menu with MAYBE some little icons to indicate what kind of squad it's going to be.

Edited by FelipeFritschF

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