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Tartantyco

Conquest Mode: More flags and faster cap times

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While I would prefer an adjacency capping game mode, I think adding Conquest Mode was a good step in the right direction in terms of adding more dynamic game modes that open up more of the map and gives you greater strategic and tactical options. However, there are a few things about the current implementation that holds it back.

 

First of all, I think the cap time for a flag should be drastically reduced to something like 10 seconds for a full cap from enemy control to friendly control. Conquest is a mode that focuses on area control, mobility, and maneuverability, and having those sudden stops in gameplay where you just have to sit on a flag for a minute or two to cap it really disrupts the otherwise fluent gameplay.

 

Secondly, more flags should be added. Lots more. Even on the small OP First Light, the 5 flag layout often makes squads wary of moving away from a flag. There should be enough flag density that squads and teams don't so much consider controlling individual flags, but instead control larger areas in which several flags exist.

 

Example for Yehorivka:

CKQSz9D.png

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40 minutes ago, Tartantyco said:

First of all, I think the cap time for a flag should be drastically reduced to something like 10 seconds for a full cap from enemy control to friendly control. Conquest is a mode that focuses on area control, mobility, and maneuverability, and having those sudden stops in gameplay where you just have to sit on a flag for a minute or two to cap it really disrupts the otherwise fluent gameplay.

 

This actually prevents other team to take a small break and reorganize, make counter attack etc etc, same for your team, so game does not end in 15 min in the current state of the game.

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2 hours ago, Cossack said:

 

This actually prevents other team to take a small break and reorganize, make counter attack etc etc, same for your team, so game does not end in 15 min in the current state of the game.

 

If a team loses the match in 15 minutes, it's because they suck. Changing the cap timer for that will have no effect.

 

The actual problem is that players are still thinking in flag-centric ways, which is what these changes would alleviate. If there's flags everywhere and it doesn't take long to cap them, then you don't run into this mindset that players have currently as a holdover from AAS where they go to this flag that is isolated from all the others and sit on it to get the cap. Then they get attacked on that flag and they'll stay on that flag to defend it. That's what loses teams the game in 15 minutes, not insufficient pause time from the cap timer. Any good team will just keep pushing regardless and keep a skeleton crew behind to deal with the cap.

 

If you get pushed off a flag in Conquest with the suggested changes, you can simply set up a defense on the next flag back and the team can try to regain territory on another front, or you can counter-attack from your new position, or you can try to work the flanks, targeting other flags instead. A team that is inferior in individual skill can still outmatch their opponent with tactics and strategy.

 

Increasing the cap requirement to +4 or +5 players would probably be good to stop the most egregious backcapping, though.

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No, if you want 10 sec cap and conquest, go play battlefield, it would turn the game into a spamy game of whack a mole, furthermore there should be less flags, however the flags should be layed out in a way do what the entire team is in one place like I see on a lot of matches 

Edited by Engagedrook8

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34 minutes ago, LugNut said:

What would keep it from becoming whack a mole?

 

I don't think that can be sustained on larger maps. Even on the tiny OP First Light, whack-a-mole is a losing strategy. The winning teams get the win through strong control of a core territory, with constant patrolling within and around that core, and then push out from there. The losing teams either sit on every flag they cap or spread their forces out to attack all the flags.

 

On larger maps, vehicles would be very important in this game mode. In order to maintain area control, you need mobility and firepower. If you use your vehicles to rush around and cap flags all over the place, you'll end up losing them quite quickly. Consequently, the rushing team will lose their mobility quite quickly and not be able to maintain a presence on the battlefield, resulting in a loss. And any squad doing these rushes would telegraph their movements through the flag caps, making interceptions very easy. This, coupled with more restrictive logistics in the future, would make whack-a-mole a losing strategy.

 

1 minute ago, Engagedrook8 said:

No, if you want 10 sec cap and conquest, go play battlefield, it would turn the game into a spamy game of whack a mole, furthermore there should be less flags, however the flags should be layed out in a way do what the entire team is in one place like I see on a lot of matches 

 

Neither Conquest Mode nor fast caps is in any way integral to Battlefield gameplay. What makes Battlefield gameplay is an extreme over-abundance of spawn points, short player respawns, short vehicle respawns, fast player movement, and absolutely no teamwork. Or should we remove squads from the game as well because those exist in Battlefield?

 

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Must say i am heavily against this, "capturing a flag" in Squad basically means securing the area and holding it. Squad is not about rushing, it's about slower paced, tactical engagements.

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If you didn't notice, there is already massive amount of spawning happening because of Squad Rallies.

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31 minutes ago, Guan_Yu007 said:

Must say i am heavily against this, "capturing a flag" in Squad basically means securing the area and holding it. Squad is not about rushing, it's about slower paced, tactical engagements.

 

And that is exactly what this change would introduce. These game mode changes would reduce the effectiveness of the rushing strategy that is endemic in the AAS game mode. You'd see more use of fortifications and emplacements, long range engagements, proper vehicle use, and more.

 

The linear capping order that is integral to the AAS game mode is practically the sole reason why rushing is effective. Because being at specific points before the enemy has such an enormous advantage, rushing is extremely rewarding. If you succeed, you're almost guaranteed a win and will give the enemy a ticket bleed that forces them to attack while you can have your entire team defending. If you lose, you'll just get back into the fight without any real repercussions.

 

So if you don't want rushing, and you want slower paced tactical engagements, this is a game mode that you want. As I said, the adjacency-based capping game mode would be preferable, but Conquest mode is already in the game and these are extremely easy alterations, which means it can be implemented now.

7 minutes ago, Cossack said:

If you didn't notice, there is already massive amount of spawning happening because of Squad Rallies.

 

Nowhere near as egregious as in Battlefield(Flag, squad, vehicle spawns), and RPs are going to get nerfed hard in the future.

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Rushing The Flag is endemic to the Team, or groups of Players within a team, particularly with Squad's open-styled maps, not the map per-se.

Rushing can reward, but can also punish because the defending team knows what it's doing and wipes you as you rush it.

Conquest mode, or similar, forces division of the team across numerous flags. Afterall, taking all the flags - flags that can be re-taken by the opposition at any time and in any order - is the only way to win at Conquest.

Conquest mode reminds me of a disturbed ants nest.

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3 hours ago, Tartantyco said:

 

Or should we remove squads from the game as well because those exist in Battlefield?

 

Lol squads in battlefield are jokes because there is no voip... my only problem with short cap times is that it would lead to very back in forth capturing, a longer cap time means that to capture, you need complete control of the objective, not some short lived push... and the only reason I am against conquest is that even if it isn't as spawn heavy as a game like battlefield, it can lead to teams being spread a little thin across these giant maps that squad has as There are only 40 and eventually 50 to a team. I acknowledge that one of the current problems with squad is that all the players are at relatively the same place( on some maps) but that can be fixed with better layouts)

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53 minutes ago, LaughingJack said:

Rushing The Flag is endemic to the Team, or groups of Players within a team, particularly with Squad's open-styled maps, not the map per-se.

Rushing can reward, but can also punish because the defending team knows what it's doing and wipes you as you rush it.

Conquest mode, or similar, forces division of the team across numerous flags. Afterall, taking all the flags - flags that can be re-taken by the opposition at any time and in any order - is the only way to win at Conquest.

Conquest mode reminds me of a disturbed ants nest.

 

Rushing isn't effective in Conquest mode, and it isn't effective in Insurgency mode. It is only effective in AAS because that game mode incentivizes and rewards it. Teams and players who rush on AAS(Which is practically everyone) are only doing so because it is the most effective strategy. By far. 

 

And no, taking all the flags is not how you win in Conquest mode. You win by draining the enemy of tickets, just like in AAS, and you drain them of tickets by holding more flags than they do.

 

36 minutes ago, Engagedrook8 said:

Lol squads in battlefield are jokes because there is no voip... 

 

My point exactly. There's nothing wrong with Conquest mode, but other game mechanics in Battlefield. Just as there's nothing wrong with squads, but other game mechanics in Battlefield.

 

Reducing the cap timer will not lead to back-and-forth capping, it will simply lead to the focus going away from attacking and defending flags to attacking and defending areas in which there are flags.

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3 hours ago, Cossack said:

If you didn't notice, there is already massive amount of spawning happening because of Squad Rallies.

Rally's are good things, but it should be more balanced, it should be the squad leader +2 people to place it and it disappears when enemies come near it

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On 14/02/2017 at 10:52 AM, Tartantyco said:

 

And no, taking all the flags is not how you win in Conquest mode. You win by draining the enemy of tickets, just like in AAS, and you drain them of tickets by holding more flags than they do.

 

 

 

Then, pray-tell, why is it called Conquest if conquest is not the aim of the gameplay type?

 

Definitions: Conquest,

- the act or state of conquering or the state of being conquered; vanquishment.

- anything acquired by conquering, as a nation, a territory, or spoils.

Nothing there about Attrition.

"in Conquest mode. You win by draining the enemy of tickets"  - then maybe it should be called Fodder or Bleed or Attrition mode instead? Is this really how people think they should play this mode? just hammering the enemy till the tickets run down? - how utterly boring!

 

 

On 14/02/2017 at 10:52 AM, Tartantyco said:

Reducing the cap timer will not lead to back-and-forth capping

Of course reducing the timer will lead to back-and-forth capping.

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@LaughingJack You understand that the game mode is already in the game, right? I wasn't the one who named it. If you want to argue semantics, go bother the Battlefield developers.

 

And you win the game by draining the enemy tickets in every game mode in Squad.

 

Seriously dude, what on earth are you even talking about?

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On 15/02/2017 at 9:50 PM, Tartantyco said:

You understand that the game mode is already in the game, right?

yes, i believe so.

 

On 15/02/2017 at 9:50 PM, Tartantyco said:

I wasn't the one who named it.

quite obviously.

 

On 15/02/2017 at 9:50 PM, Tartantyco said:

If you want to argue semantics, go bother the Battlefield developers.

it's the perpetuation of the "mis-naming" i guess that is annoying.

 

On 15/02/2017 at 9:50 PM, Tartantyco said:

And you win the game by draining the enemy tickets in every game mode in Squad.

yes, i know this also - sad as that reality is.

 

On 15/02/2017 at 9:50 PM, Tartantyco said:

Seriously dude, what on earth are you even talking about?

we, all, are disscussing the merits of your suggestion in the OP. i'm simply refering to a type of game mode you obviously cannot get your head around as you appear to be completely indoctrinated into the Ticket Bleed mentality of BF's and their like.

 

Conquest mode is simply non-linear AAS.

 

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Sorry @Tartantyco I don't like the idea and think it would even have the opposite effect you're trying to achieve with players rushing about to cap individual flags instead of pushing through an area to clear it. What might work is actually having less cap zones but larger ones. Think of a bunch of your little caps amalgamated into a large area that players have to control to force the cap. As for the speed of capping that should be relevant to the amount of forces you have in the zone like BF1 does.

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This idea that @Tartantyco brings up sounds really interesting, and I hope we can try out how something like this would play out.

Certainly it sounds like it could lead to "slower paced, tactical engagements" which drew players to Squad in the first place.

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Join us this Saturday at 19:00 UTC for a CCFN Show Match between [wF] WhiteFOX and [FSQ] Finnish Squad on OP First Light, showcasing the Conquest Game Mode and testing its competitive viability.

Get ready for a competitive 24 vs. 24 player match unlike any other you've seen, featuring novel game mechanics that require innovative strategies and tactics from the teams.

Insightful commentary is provided by casters [OMBD] Gec and Tartantyco, and we hope you'll join us with your own enlightening comments in the Twitch chat.

Tune this Saturday !
 

19:00 UTC | 12:00 PDT | 05:00 AEST Sunday

Receive alerts on:
ISKT Discord

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Worst idea ever seen.

 

Even in normal mode SL have few problems with following people. It's easy enough to be an extremely mobile squad if you use vehicles but if you lose them you are f***ed in your game mode. Who will run across all the map ?

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2 hours ago, CrazyBear said:

Worst idea ever seen.

 

Even in normal mode SL have few problems with following people. It's easy enough to be an extremely mobile squad if you use vehicles but if you lose them you are f***ed in your game mode. Who will run across all the map ?

 

That's just as much of an "issue" in AAS. If you lose all your vehicles on Yehorivka, you're just as screwed.

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Judge for yourself! Personally it was immensily enjoyable to play as a Squad Leader in this match. There was a strong element of Real time strategy / territory control, and a lot of decision about where to deploy forces to constantly be made.

Watch the VOD here at your leisure:
- Round 1:


- Round 2:

 

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