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Jeffreyson

Roadmap, when beta, when final?

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Most of you just accept this alpha early access stuff without ever question what SQUAD will become when it gets released. Without user feedback and input from us they will think everything is fine and they dont need to work on x or y more. Why do most of you say something like 'its just alpha, they will do this and that later etc", how do you know? Why do you defend the devs, its not your job. They need to give us a roadmap and ETA on beta and final. Will SQUAD ever become like PR? ...

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The devs don't need to give us nothing. Have a little trust, will you?


The devs are exceptionally well active on on both forums and reddit aswell as discord. There is more than enough Intel on any possible topic.

Also, open road maps and dates are stupid publicity wise... People are gonna start crying once something doesn't work as planned.

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1 minute ago, Tillee said:

The devs don't need to give us nothing. Have a little trust, will you?
 

Well that's hugely false. We all paid for a game so they owe us a finished game. Unfortunately due to the guise of early access there is no ruling on just how quickly they must provide that.

 

To the OP, many of us do care. We are highly supportive though while at the same time being highly critical. Many of us have or had expectations of Squad from a long time ago. Unfortunately those expectations do not meet up with the devs intentions. As far as I know, aside from the Kickstarter, the devs intentions and goals have never really been laid out. We do not know their endgame. Many had surmised that this would be an extension of Project Reality. That has been brutally clear to not be the case.

 

But this is a long term project. Many of us joined knowing this would take a long time. Projected dates get missed, things get broken and need fixing and sometimes things just don't work as easily as planned. For instance, vehicles took eight months longer to implement than originally projected. Squad will not release according to the dates given on steam. That is the joy of development.

 

I do not take it personally when the devs do not add what I want immediately. I hope they add those features eventually. They are essential in my opinion and many others. But that just means we keep an eye on Squad and go do other things. I myself have seen my Squad time dwindle to two organized events a week. There just isn't enough to pull me into a random game currently. But we are on the cusp of an update. See what that brings before being too harsh.

 

PS. Not everyone here is a blind fanboy.

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We never promised anyone PR2. That's a fact. 

 

We always intended to make a more accessible version of PR and we never said otherwise. There may have been expectations but they weren't set by us.. and that's totally ok. We have learned to live with it. 

 

I was a member of 3 PR2 teams so I am painfully aware of the expectations game and how it quickly becomes skewed 

 

To address the OP we are getting more comfortable with a road map as the core features start getting ticked off on our list. It's been a bloody 3 years and everyone on the team has learned where their limits are now.  We expect to be able to give the community an outline of the coming 10-12 months after this release. It will be loose but it should give everyone a better idea of the outcomes we have in mind. 

 

cheers!

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1 hour ago, Jeffreyson said:

Most of you just accept this alpha early access stuff without ever question what SQUAD will become when it gets released. Without user feedback and input from us they will think everything is fine and they dont need to work on x or y more. Why do most of you say something like 'its just alpha, they will do this and that later etc", how do you know? Why do you defend the devs, its not your job. They need to give us a roadmap and ETA on beta and final. Will SQUAD ever become like PR? ...

There is very simple answer to why many have faith in them: most of these guys are from modding background where they already proven who they are and what they can do. Don't worry, these devs have high ambition and are very imaginative, dedicated bunch of people.

 

Check out PR to see what was made from BF2. Then you will understand that they have quite high standards that need time to achieve. In meantime, we have to be happy with this. Or not, but then you only wearing your self :) there is roadmap that they follow, let's just enjoy the ride... that is what alpha early access is all about, right?

 

Don't get me wrong here, constructive criticism is best help you can give if you want to participate and be part of this great game. And its another charm of EA...we as community can swing things around by giving some input. Make some threads about your current issues... just make sure to search the forums and reddit since many questions are already answered.

 

Btw, if you take closer look at those threads, you will see that devs are gamers just like you and me. They would like to see many if not all of the proposed features done... it's just that they have responsibility to actually make the game running with certain amount of money and time frame.

Edited by Disco
ups...started to respond to OP before taxi made comment :)

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no problemo.. that all sounds mostly correct.. 

 

Time, money and reality of our abilities are the limits. :)

 

 

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Lol with modablity you can create your experince beyond the core game. Blows me away people forget that. I am sure someone will make a pr2 mod so hold your genetals and have fun. 

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As a Product Manager IRL, I wanna punch OP through the monitor.

 

But the team here has done a pretty great job thus far. Couple buggy releases early but the new stuff (vehicles, maps, weapons, ect) are continuing to be put out and make the game even more fun.

 

Read their update pages.

Edited by P LANCE!

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10 minutes ago, grimshadow said:

Lol with modablity you can create your experince beyond the core game. Blows me away people forget that. I am sure someone will make a pr2 mod so hold your genetals and have fun. 

Blows me away that people forget that there is currently no way to use mods in Squad. So the modding argument is null. I can take a dump on my desk too but what does that get me? More than modding in Squad currently.

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17 minutes ago, PolishKruk said:

Blows me away that people forget that there is currently no way to use mods in Squad. So the modding argument is null. I can take a dump on my desk too but what does that get me? More than modding in Squad currently.

 

Asking for mods right now is the same as asking for Squad to be a finished game right now. That's the reality of it and as such, your response makes no sense. So lets take a step back for a minute and think about the fact that once implementation is sorted Squad will explode with choices and content from modders instead of you having to wait 6 months after Squad has mod implementation officially supported. What, is Kokan not a good example enough of a modder creating content for Squad?

 

@Jeffreyson Unfortunately, the developers don't need to give you anything. Game development in general is extremely fluid and no developer has time to restrict themselves with a pre-defined development roadmap handed out to the public. They have their internal design document, roadmap, milestones etc and they're working towards those.. some of which will often change or shift in terms of dates and/or systems and content. In addition to that, if the devs released a roadmap and decided to delay or change something they would have to update said roadmap ever time and quite obviously, you would demand an explanation to that as well. Nobody has time for that.

 

Overall, consider* yourselves lucky (this goes for me as well). OWI's level of community interaction is rare in the industry. Does that mean you shouldn't ask for more? No, it doesn't. However, that does mean showing respect and not demanding or saying they need to give you specific things. As you've read, they will be showing us something after this release as well!

 

Finally, Squad is Squad. If you want Project Reality, go play Project Reality. Most of us do when we want to play PR, but we recognise that Squad is its own game.

 

 

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Spoiler

 

What I am saying it the time to start working on your dream squad mod is right now because it takes time wtc.. Post scriptum is doing just that to make the game they wanted, not to mention the plethora of others making maps, vehicles, etc.. It takes time to make these and the time is now.

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7 hours ago, grimshadow said:
  Reveal hidden contents

 

What I am saying it the time to start working on your dream squad mod is right now because it takes time wtc.. Post scriptum is doing just that to make the game they wanted, not to mention the plethora of others making maps, vehicles, etc.. It takes time to make these and the time is now.

 

Perhaps you're right, time, to start making Squad an actual PR2 instead of a Battlefied-ish clone it seems to be heading towards.

Edited by MultiSquid

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4 hours ago, MultiSquid said:

 

Perhaps you're right, time, to start making Squad an actual PR2 instead of a Battlefied-ish clone it seems to be heading towards.

Well think of this a business standpoint, they need money to make the base game and they opened up modding so people can make what they want. All the tools are there, and I am positive someone will make a PR clone with it. But it is quite counter intuitive to bash something that never said they were going to be a pr 2.0  but a steeping stone between arma and bf. Thats how you get people in an interested and sell the game to make money to develop the game. But luckily they arent sell outs etc.. and are very vocal among the community and their intentions. Everything will be there to make it as such and the SDk is free to use and to learn, so get to it, or get a group of pl together to do as such. Just stop bashing a game that is still far better than both arma, bf and prettier pr but put your brain were your mouth is and start modding.

 

this is more for people that complain about something they have all the power to do themselves atm.

 

Mic drop

Edited by grimshadow

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On 2/11/2017 at 6:21 PM, MultiSquid said:

 

Perhaps you're right, time, to start making Squad an actual PR2 instead of a Battlefied-ish clone it seems to be heading towards.

i was  just thinking to myself how good spawning on the squad leader, 15 sec respawns and unlimited ammo would be in squad right now..  thanks for the vote we will get right on it!  A9 hype! ;)

 

We are OK with everyone not being happy with the outcome. Nature of the beast. Squad will not be PR2.

 

However I think we will end up with something pretty damn sexy that can engage a few more people than PR over it's lifetime. Squad was about extending the legacy of PR style teamwork that a lot of us Devs cut our teeth on. In fact that was merlin's specific pitch to me when he asked me to help him start the team. 

 

Personally I am as proud a member of the squad team as I am an alumni of the PR team. I don't spend energy comparing them (and that's ok and a rational way to live)

 

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2 hours ago, IrOnTaXi said:

 Squad was about extending the legacy of PR style teamwork that a lot of us Devs cut our teeth on. In fact that was merlin's specific pitch to me when he asked me to help him start the team. 

 

is this "PR style teamwork" for you?

 

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3 hours ago, lisasu said:

 

is this "PR style teamwork" for you?

 

You know the game isn't final yet? Animationsystem will change (and with it sway and so on), suppresion system will also change and lots of other things that will probally balance out scopes.

 

What Irontaxi wrote is what they are working towards. Not were the game is now. You do realise that it takes ****ing time to finish everything!?

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48 minutes ago, Romby said:

You know the game isn't final yet? Animationsystem will change (and with it sway and so on), suppresion system will also change and lots of other things that will probally balance out scopes.

 

What Irontaxi wrote is what they are working towards. Not were the game is now. You do realise that it takes ****ing time to finish everything!?

no, i've heard that for too long.

there is too many gameplay decisions that devs made CONSCIOUSLY. you don't do opposite things and say it will change in the future, you do it right for the first time.

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Feel free to create your own pr2 then.

I trust these devs because i understand the time and resources needed to create a game. PR was a mod build on a finished game and took over 10 years to become what it is now. Squad has been made from scratch by a small new dev team and their progress is steady. They constantly let us know of what they are doing behind the scenes. Most devs are working for years without letting anyone know about the game. Most games take about 2 years to get into beta, which i see Squad following up pretty nicely, maybe a bit longer but that's to be expected since the team is pretty small. 

We are in no position to make demands since by buying into early acces we basically agreed on the fact that anything could happen.

 

There are bound to be placeholder systems to make the game functional, every game has this in it's alpha stage.

Edited by Guan_Yu007

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Blows me away that people forget that there is currently no way to use mods in Squad. So the modding argument is null. I can take a dump on my desk too but what does that get me? More than modding in Squad currently.




...eat a chair.

You know that modding takes time?
Modelling, mapping, getting better and familiar with UE4?

When the Lights go green, there will be several Teams ready to release, so why the bloody hell should they wait and prolong this for 6 months?


Have fun with your dump whilst the people arround you are productive and work their arses for this community.

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Everyone is forgetting the fact, game is still in Alpha stage. Things still can very heavily change. And mod support is a thing, when you have Final game out, instead something that is changing.

 

As mod maker, it would be pain in the ass keep stuff updated, because core code is still changing.

 

So deep breath, this game has made far more progress in relatively short time than Star Citizen with its massive budget and (oh wait!), still nothing solid out after years of development. 

 

Like huge thing is vehicle physics update, that will affect all other mods like Post Scriptum so guys don't have to write everything from zero. 

 

P.S. I still want changes about medic system, because current just encourages re-spawning rather than waiting for medic. ;)

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On 11/02/2017 at 4:02 PM, IrOnTaXi said:

To address the OP we are getting more comfortable with a road map as the core features start getting ticked off on our list. It's been a bloody 3 years and everyone on the team has learned where their limits are now.  We expect to be able to give the community an outline of the coming 10-12 months after this release. It will be loose but it should give everyone a better idea of the outcomes we have in mind. 

 

OP has had his question answered. 

 

This isn't a "I was promised PR2" thread. Go make a mod instead of flaming the devs for making their own game.

 

Locked.

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