LeBalafré

Make the Main Bases conquerable

34 posts in this topic

I know this subject has been discussed before here and there but I wanted to make a clearer proposal and see what the devs think about it. I saw an awful lot of games ending in a brutal and shameless rape stretching during a very long time, resulting in a lot of people simply leaving the server, and I think this feature could fix this problem.

 

So, the idea is to make the main base conquerable if the last flag is taken in AAS. When this happens, the losing team is given 10 or 15 minute to retake the point. When the timer is over, the flags are locked, and every player in the losing team is given one respawn ticket in order for the last remnants to get back to the base. The latter is either already fortified or fortified by the players themselves  (I don't know if there would be enough time for this, ). The winning team must take the base like a normal flag and/or eliminate the enemy team. 

 

This would be, I think, way more satisfying for both teams. The losers would make one last heroic stand without being shot like rabbits during one hour, and the winners would stick to a more motivating objective. Of course, this raises other questions, like the size and design of the bases and probably others, but overall, I really believe this would make certain games more enjoyable for everybody.

 

So what do you guys think?

 

 

Edited by LeBalafré

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2 minutes ago, Xx-RAGING-DEATH-xX said:

I wouldn't mind seeing your suggestion,to me having different game mods will/would spice up gameplay.Imo.

 

Well my point isn't to make another game mode, but to make the main base conquerable in AAS

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4 minutes ago, smokyhook said:

I don't see how this makes anything better?

 

At least the game would end.

 

I think final flags were conquerable in old PR AAS. I seem to remember capping a final flag on Qwai River.

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Having base battles would be pretty much the same as being besieged in a built up FOB somewhere else. If the attackers are at least semi-competent, then the defenders don't have a chance to win without an outside spawn. It's boring, one-sided and it doesn't leave the defending team almost any options to break through.

 

The current system is better. Contrary to popular belief, you actually CAN get out of a camped base, simply because the attacking team has to stretch over a larger area. All you need is actual cooperation (cooperation in Squad? crazy idea, right?) of several squads and a large smokescreen, then you can start fighting back from the outside.

 

@wingman9 Not the main base, the Chinese in Qwai had 2 bases, one of which unlocked after the US captured all of the other flags, but they still could spawn on the other one.

 

@LeBalafré since you claim to be aware that this subject has already been discussed in length, why don't you just revive one of the old threads (after reading it, of course) instead of making a new one where we can repeat to you what we already said to others?

Edited by MultiSquid

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2 hours ago, MultiSquid said:

Having base battles would be pretty much the same as being besieged in a built up FOB somewhere else. If the attackers are at least semi-competent, then the defenders don't have a chance to win without an outside spawn. It's boring, one-sided and it doesn't leave the defending team almost any options to break through.

 

 

No. The defenders wouldn't have any tickets left after the end of the timer. The battle wouldn't last more than ten minutes (if the defenders are efficient). 

 

2 hours ago, MultiSquid said:

 

 

The current system is better. Contrary to popular belief, you actually CAN get out of a camped base, simply because the attacking team has to stretch over a larger area. All you need is actual cooperation (cooperation in Squad? crazy idea, right?) of several squads and a large smokescreen, then you can start fighting back from the outside.

 

Thank you for the info dude. Well no shit. We're not here to talk about the causes, but about the consequences. Of course that it is possible. But on public server, sometimes, SLs suck, and there's nothing we can do about it. The point here is to prevent long and useless rapes that are boring for everyone and that cannot be avoided. This argument does not stand.

 

1 hour ago, NanoAgeWarrior said:

Or... you could simply make it so that when all flags captured ticket bleed would speed up 10x ? Why over complicate things.

Indeed it could work too. Or we could end the game after X minutes which is  the same thing... The point here is to prevent infinite rape on public servers. To my mind the idea of conquering bases would allow the game to end less abruptly, but that's just me. 

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Team needs a way to break out if being surrounded and at last stand or last flag.  Add parachute spawns at some place on map? Paratroopers? Only have them available when at last defence.

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Honestly i don't see how this will help it will probably help kill servers because if the enemy is at your base then why bother?The current system is good just need to make the last flag a bleed flag on every map and maybe tick it up a bit i have seen comebacks happen if the other team have no fobs cap the last point,get wiped,and the losing team is free to cap all the flags lol.

 

Edited by HellRanger2558
misspell

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no. changes nothing.

removing Tickets from the game and thus relying on the capture of bases (the basic premise of the game) will fix this problem - once the last base is captured = end of round. (last Base, not X-Base).

Edited by LaughingJack
clarity

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1 hour ago, LaughingJack said:

no. changes nothing.

removing Tickets from the game and thus relying on the capture of bases (the basic premise of the game) will fix this problem - once the last base is captured = end of round.

Then you would have 10 - 15 minute matches, as a large portion of matches are decided within the first 10 - 15 minutes, depending on who's flag rush was more successful.

Removal of tickets would entice people to not wait for medics, would get people yoloing vehicles more than they do now. Basically, we would have 10 minute Rambo with a touch of Steven Seagal type rounds.

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Main bases should never be cappable. It's cheap gameplay wise and goes into the realm of the arcade. Just make it so that the instance the last flag is lost the round is over regardless of tickets. Being stuck in main or without a method of spawning(should the main spawns become contested) is no fun and there's no point in prolonging the game.

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On 09/02/2017 at 10:35 AM, Dubs said:

Then you would have 10 - 15 minute matches, as a large portion of matches are decided within the first 10 - 15 minutes, depending on who's flag rush was more successful.
. . . . . . . . . .
Removal of tickets would entice people to not wait for medics, would get people yoloing vehicles more than they do now. Basically, we would have 10 minute Rambo with a touch of Steven Seagal type rounds.

Not neccissarily. We regularly had (un-timed) rounds in JO last for 1-2 hours - just depended on the to-and-fro of battle - absolutely nothing to do with Tickets. Your thinking that teams will miraculously take all the zones within 10( to15) minutes simply because there are no Tickets, is i think, a bit rich.  Your inference of such short rounds suggests wildly unbalanced teams anyway.

. . . . . . . .

Generally (in other games) people will wait for a medic while it is expedient to do so, no more - no less. No-one wants to have to respawn unless they need to.

The current restrictions on vehicles would still keep the soloing of them to probably about the same as it is now.

10 Minute Rambo-Segal rounds is just a silly comment to make, i'm afraid.

__________________________________

 

There seems to ba a mentality that Tickets are the Magical Overhead that is supposed to make people play the game conservatively and in a tactical way. It's not a definite thing - tards will be tards - smart players will be smart players -  regardless of precious Tickets. It comes down to the Teams playing and the community from which those teams evolve from, ie: regular matches with the same group or community of players will foster good gameplay regardless of how the game is set up to run.

 

Well said @Frontliner !

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3 hours ago, LaughingJack said:

Not neccissarily. We regularly had (un-timed) rounds in JO last for 1-2 hours - just depended on the to-and-fro of battle - absolutely nothing to do with Tickets. Your thinking that teams will miraculously take all the zones within 10( to15) minutes simply because there are no Tickets, is i think, a bit rich.  Your inference of such short rounds suggests wildly unbalanced teams anyway.

. . . . . . . .

Generally (in other games) people will wait for a medic while it is expedient to do so, no more - no less. No-one wants to have to respawn unless they need to.

The current restrictions on vehicles would still keep the soloing of them to probably about the same as it is now.

10 Minute Rambo-Segal rounds is just a silly comment to make, i'm afraid.

__________________________________

 I'm not saying " thinking that teams will miraculously take all the zones within 10( to15) minutes simply because there are no Tickets" -- You've completely missed the point here or attempting selective argument.

I'm an Admin so I'm lucky get to see match progression from the sky when I'm too lazy to play and just want to fly around and watch a match. 90% of the time, the team with the successful 2nd flag rush wins the game. First 10 - 15 minutes of the match is usually the amount of time it takes for one team to have a successful flag rush. Now my point was, If winning match = capture all points. 10 - 15 minute matches would be very realistic and would be quite common. You play Oceanic servers based on you being from Aussie, so you must have have seen Clans like |F| .salt ULD ZSU etc etc do successful flag rushes and have the enemy in their main within the first 15 minutes? It usually ends in enemy team getting slaughtered for 20ish minutes trying to get to 1st flag from main. It's a common thing to see, and being realistic; team balance has not been a thing ever in Squad for public matches, A large majority of games are one side getting stomped over and over. 

Remove tickets, people won't care about assets, they won't care about their life, they won't care about losing FOBs as there's nothing stopping them from doing so. People will become more reckless. The game will become more die - respawn orientated as there is no consequence to losing assets or dying. People already don't wait for medics because they impatient and think medics will take too long, people already yolo assets and lose them, people already place FOBs in stupid places....With no tickets at all, this would increase that behavior ALOT and create a die - respawn super fast paced game style aka Rambo-Seagal rounds. Throw in what I said above, 10 - 15 Minute Rambo-Seagal rounds being a reality.
 

Edited by Dubs

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I like it as it is, most severs don't allow base raping anyway and in the rare times it does happen then at least the loosing team has a chance. If they all mount up in vehicles and coordinate a mass evacuation at exactly the same time all it would take is one vehicle making it out and to a flag to get the game going again, they'd cap a flag quickly as the whole attacking team are near the main base, raping.

This actually happened to the team I was on in a game yesterday and all it took was 1 Technical that managed to escape, the 3 guys on board made it to the next cap point and capped it which caused the attacking team to panic and spread out again which allowed the remainder of the loosing team to escape the main base.


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Main base captures ending the game would be cool as heck, as long as there is plenty of static MGs, mortars, cover, etc in the main. Spawn protection bubble would "unlock" after last flag is capped. A main base capture would be both incredibly risky and rewarding for the attacking/winning team. Ofcourse, main base spawning would have to be reworked a bit.

Edited by GreatDestroyerDT

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On February 8, 2017 at 6:32 AM, Xx-RAGING-DEATH-xX said:

I wouldn't mind seeing your suggestion,to me having different game mods will/would spice up gameplay.Imo.

I mean, aas is great, and whenever they add actual insurgency that will be nice, but I don't really see the need for new modes, they just need to balance and re lay out existing maps 

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On 10/02/2017 at 2:42 PM, Dubs said:

 I'm not saying " thinking that teams will miraculously take all the zones within 10( to15) minutes simply because there are no Tickets" -- You've completely missed the point here or attempting selective argument.

I'm an Admin so I'm lucky get to see match progression from the sky when I'm too lazy to play and just want to fly around and watch a match. 90% of the time, the team with the successful 2nd flag rush wins the game. First 10 - 15 minutes of the match is usually the amount of time it takes for one team to have a successful flag rush. Now my point was, If winning match = capture all points. 10 - 15 minute matches would be very realistic and would be quite common. You play Oceanic servers based on you being from Aussie, so you must have have seen Clans like |F| .salt ULD ZSU etc etc do successful flag rushes and have the enemy in their main within the first 15 minutes? It usually ends in enemy team getting slaughtered for 20ish minutes trying to get to 1st flag from main. It's a common thing to see, and being realistic; team balance has not been a thing ever in Squad for public matches, A large majority of games are one side getting stomped over and over. 

Remove tickets, people won't care about assets, they won't care about their life, they won't care about losing FOBs as there's nothing stopping them from doing so. People will become more reckless. The game will become more die - respawn orientated as there is no consequence to losing assets or dying. People already don't wait for medics because they impatient and think medics will take too long, people already yolo assets and lose them, people already place FOBs in stupid places....With no tickets at all, this would increase that behavior ALOT and create a die - respawn super fast paced game style aka Rambo-Seagal rounds. Throw in what I said above, 10 - 15 Minute Rambo-Seagal rounds being a reality.
 

 

Sorry Dubs, not meaning to be selective, just how i read your Paragraph:

On 09/02/2017 at 10:35 AM, Dubs said:

Removal of tickets would entice people to not wait for medics, would get people yoloing vehicles more than they do now. Basically, we would have 10 minute Rambo with a touch of Steven Seagal type rounds.

 

"First 10 - 15 minutes of the match is usually the amount of time it takes for one team to have a successful flag rush. Now my point was, If winning match = capture all points(sic: Flags?). 10 - 15 minute matches would be very realistic and would be quite common"

 

So: 1-Flag equals 10-15 minutes and n-Flags also equal 10-15 minutes . . . . ? . . . . now, i know my maths is pretty terrible, but how does this work?

 

Since you Admin you will obviously see these things in broard detail far better than most of us. To be honest though, from your description above, those rounds sound hideously unbalanced in a very Team-Stacking kind of way, and no fun whatsoever for either team. Back in the old days we took it upon ourselves as much as possible, if there was no Admin around, to un-bias the team-stacking so the rounds went longer, were more interesting and much more fun for both the winners and losers. A close match is a good match - a slaughter (particularly repetatively) is no fun for anyone.

 

Coming from a Non-TicketSystem background of gaming, i still think you are overstating the evil that would prevail if Tickets were removed.

However, Squad will never have them removed due to it being a core part of the game, brought over from BattleField(s).

 

The "Point" of this thread is to find a solution to the backed-into-a-corner cannon-fodder slaughter-rape of the losing team, simply because there are some tickets left.

 

 

Would love to play more, but i just can't find enough time (motivation?) lately, well since the begining really.

 

 

Edited by LaughingJack

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I wouldn't mind the main base having more fun emplacements than there is now, some hmgs and mortars would be cool, but I don't want it cappable. Usually now, by the time you're pinned back in main, your teamates are bailing off the server left and right, so you've already been out played and now you're outmanned as well. I'd rather a quicker ticket bleed, but it would be fun to have some heavy assets to go down in a blaze of glory with. 

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7 hours ago, LugNut said:

I wouldn't mind the main base having more fun emplacements than there is now, some hmgs and mortars would be cool, but I don't want it cappable. Usually now, by the time you're pinned back in main, your teamates are bailing off the server left and right, so you've already been out played and now you're outmanned as well. I'd rather a quicker ticket bleed, but it would be fun to have some heavy assets to go down in a blaze of glory with. 

 

I love it,fight to the end.

I'm gonna rephrase,I don't want a special mod for this,just have the ability for server Admins to have the Option for  The Main Base capable.

 

"Last stand at the Alamo"...Hooah!.

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The problem with this is that any team that gets pushed back to its Main Base is generally complete shit, and so the gameplay outcome of this would be horrible. You'd just sit there shooting fish in a barrel, and the entire enemy team would most likely just leave. This is what happens in PR when servers let Main Bases be attackable.

 

The problem here is simply AAS. As long as you have a linear cap order, this is the only outcome for weaker teams. If you have more options in terms of your advance(Like in Conquest Mode), you can stay fairly competitive even when you're being beaten in a 1 on 1 fight because you can focus on other attributes to keep you in the game, such as mobility and maneuverability.

 

If you have to cap this one flag, and you have not been able to beat the enemy in a 1 on 1 fight so far, chances are you're not going to take that one flag, which results in one team butting their head against a wall for 20-30 minutes.

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Conquest mode in BF's(+ :BC2) always ended up a farce of peeps bouncing back and forth between two, maybe three, adjacent flags. I don't believe AAS, or a linear cap order, is the problem at all, and changing to non-linear is not going to fix anything. You're talking about a shite team versus a kick-ass team, and with that sort of imbalance you will always end up with the scenario you describe above.

As myself and Another have already stated above, the best solution, and also because some did not like my "get rid of the ticket system" idea, would be to end the match on the loss of their last Capturable flag, regardless of how many tickets are left. - use the remainder of tickets to weight the end scores for the teams, maybe?

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