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darricks

[Feed+sugg] Why scoreboard isnt revelant

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darricks   

I'm really, really, annoyed, by "master" SL, claming u are useless cause you are not falling back when they have lost their flag in 10 minutes. Like I add a group teleportation scroll in my pocket. 

So let me clear something about this, I think we really need the dev to add the numbers of tickets we have costed to the ennemy in the score board. It will clarify the situation.


Let me explain why with some maps (who basicly explain why I hate playing in attack - cause you are always blamed if defenser are wiped) : 

 

map_1511.jpg

 

As u can see, we rushed gazhi with my squad . We destroyed a 50. caliber with 4 men and defended it a long time until squad 4 joined us with a logi. 
We stayed on Ghazi after fobing it, cleaning several wave of attackers without real issue. 
I asked squad 4 to stay on Ghazi and they did, so I attacked the last militia flag on my map side once it looked clear.

We had a really low resistance on this push, but we pushed slowly, doing several travel with the humwee to brought my men 3 by 3 cause there is only 5 room in the humwee and i let the other one to the team. 

 

We started to cap this flag, when I discovered Ghazi was white caped, and i was ****ed with 8 men to brought back and only 1 humwee for transporting them. 

I dont even had the time to finaly choose to fallback I got messaged hardly on the red by a SL saying "hey squad 3, can you make yourself usefull". 
With the deseagrement of loosing a game, you also have to deal with ppl thinking you are a ****ing wizard able to teleport his squad where he wants, but it doesnt work this way. 

 

We destroyed 3 logi, 2 FOB, 1 SPG9, 1 50. caliber which made barely 145 tickets if we had the 61 tickets we took in kill. 
I'm not saying its heavy, but we largely paid our contribution to the game, sadely, our defenser failed (which can happen to everyone), and we were ****ed. 


I really think, instead of showing KDA for ppl wanting to argue about their frag, we need to see the ticket amount the squad (not player by player) costed to the ennemy team (the main goal of the game i mean), its more revelant of what they did / tried to do during the game. 

 

I already made myself this reflexion cause, 2 week ago, I was playing militia with my team and we had a very good 4 men squad of random who just ambushed and destroyed several BTR on mine entrance fool's road map, helping us to take all the flag without firing the sound of this strong vehicle. 

But like they took no flag, they had a 120 points score, which is a lot unfair cause they took 90 tickets to our ennemy and I had to explain to a few of my men they have been usefull the hell even if it was not looking so, cause they were arguing they have been useless (they didnt have the red so they cant know). 


Also control points you earn for taking flags are not a good. Squad who want high points just need to take flag closer to the main with full squad 1 or 2 times and they are already high the ****, but with the current meta, its a 1 man mission so...

 

So I guess, ticket account is more revelant and better to show the good work which has been done. 

 

Here the whole game for those already arguing its all our fault or i dont know what : https://www.twitch.tv/videos/119773246

 

If someone say "the score doesnt matter", I agree, but dont put a score board so, just list the name by squad and its fine. 

Edited by darricks

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TheFSM   

Yes, this would be so preferable to the current points system. As you said, right now if you sit your whole squad on the first two points and cap them you will instantly have far more points than anyone else despite the possibility that other squads have had a much higher effect on the ticket counter of the enemy via disabling FOBs and destroying vehicles.

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gec   

If you feel you are doing well, then simply do not engage in discussion with other players. If they dont know better then it is their loss.

Showing other players how well you are doing should not really be relevant, if they are good they will feel the reduction in pressure from a fob going down or shit like that.. and not just blame it on random events.

Edited by gec

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I disagree. What about if you are sitting on the flag defending  and no enemies attack? The end of the round scoreboard will say you are useless because you didnt kill any enemies. If it aint broke, dont fix it.

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darricks   
1 hour ago, gec said:

If you feel you are doing well, then simply do not engage in discussion with other players. If they dont know better then it is their loss.

Showing other players how well you are doing should not really be relevant, if they are good they will feel the reduction in pressure from a fob going down or shit like that.. and not just blame it on random events.

 

Its a purge to have your red spamed by a retard. 
Its not at me to not answer, its a him to not flame. 
By giving each others the ability to have a good view of who have done what, it can help a lot to keep some mouth close. 

Edited by darricks

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darricks   
56 minutes ago, NanoAgeWarrior said:

I disagree. What about if you are sitting on the flag defending  and no enemies attack? The end of the round scoreboard will say you are useless because you didnt kill any enemies. If it aint broke, dont fix it.

 

You can do it, just simply add the ticket bleed on the account of the team keeping the flag in both case : 

 

Case 1 : 

The defended flag is activating the ticket bleed, so the ennemy lost 4 tickets each minutes. 
Just add it to the score board of the team who is defending it. 

 

Case 2 : 

The defend flag isnt activating the ticket bleed

Just add the ticket saved by not loosing this more flag. 

Ticket bleed improve for each more flag you have lost after the one activating it. So it will be really revelant of the utility of staying back and defending. 

 

In case 1, you are granted the amount of tickets bleed you have kept by defending the flag

In case 2, you are granted the amont of tickets you have saved by not letting the ennemy taking one more and improving it
 

U can also the add the fact, once the defending squad dont have to defend this flag anymore cause the attacking squad got the next one, they got the 20 points you can lost if the flag is caped by the ennemy team. 

 

Edited by darricks

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3 minutes ago, darricks said:

 

You can do it, just simply add the ticket bleed on the account of the team keeping the flag in both case :

 

 


Alright cool, so how exactly would you score, medics, kill assists, driving logies, driving armed vehicles, recapturing flags, placing rally points, fobs, building/place sandbags......... into a "how many tickets this cost to the enemy" system?

Or you know, we could just keep the current score system.

Edited by NanoAgeWarrior

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darricks   
8 minutes ago, NanoAgeWarrior said:


Alright cool, so how exactly would you score, medics, kill assists, driving logies, driving armed vehicles, recapturing flags, placing rally points, fobs, building/place sandbags......... into a "how many tickets this cost to the enemy" system?

Or you know, we could just keep the current score system.

 

samelogic than all the rest. 

When the fob spawn, you are granted by 20 tickets once she is activated, unless you dont loose it. Work both if you wait or if u come with a logi. 

Resing a mate give 1 tickets, cause you spare one. The ticket is only lost when the guy give up or is "definitively" dead. 
Recapturing flag cost 24 tickets to the ennemy team currently, so you have 24 more tickets. 
Attacker neutralising / preventing the ennemy flag to be active are slowly decreasing the ticket bleed, so they have it back. 

 

Placing rally point as nothing to do with score, aswell as sandag or driving combat vehicle, and current scoreboard doesnt take this in account already so no change. 

Edited by darricks

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54 minutes ago, darricks said:

Placing rally point as nothing to do with score, aswell as sandag or driving combat vehicle, and current scoreboard doesnt take this in account already so no change. 


Driving does give score but its very limited and devs already promised it will be changed. What about building? What about when they add helos and you can do resupply runs? I can somewhat see what you trying to say about the tickets cost but it's flawed, doesnt work in all cases and doesnt really add anything that the current score system currently doesnt do.

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darricks   
57 minutes ago, NanoAgeWarrior said:


Driving does give score but its very limited and devs already promised it will be changed. What about building? What about when they add helos and you can do resupply runs? I can somewhat see what you trying to say about the tickets cost but it's flawed, doesnt work in all cases and doesnt really add anything that the current score system currently doesnt do.

 

your missing a big point in what i'm asking. 
I dont an individual score board any more, i want it to be grouped by squad. 
When you drive a logi for a fob, the squad got 20 points if you activated an FOB, so you are rewarded for driving it cause your whole squad got 20 points. 
Same logic for driving the crow which make 38 kills, its global, its not the gunner who got the ticket, its the squad.
Pb solved right? 

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8 minutes ago, darricks said:

 

your missing a big point in what i'm asking. 
I dont an individual score board any more, i want it to be grouped by squad. 
When you drive a logi for a fob, the squad got 20 points if you activated an FOB, so you are rewarded for driving it cause your whole squad got 20 points. 
Same logic for driving the crow which make 38 kills, its global, its not the gunner who got the ticket, its the squad.
Pb solved right? 

Right, so if I leave the squad and join the another squad those points would be transfered making that system irrelevant. Or if the points dont transfer, that user can just get kicked from the squad and have 0 personal points. Great.

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darricks   
Just now, NanoAgeWarrior said:

Right, so if I leave the squad and join the another squad those points would be transfered making that system irrelevant. Or if the points dont transfer, that user can just get kicked from the squad and have 0 personal points. Great.

 

Its currently the exact samething and would be the same if we keep point like they are currently. 

So you're more looking to seek the last word than really arguing.

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Souf   

i agree here , i play only SL and often end the game with 0--0,  cz im looking at the map and trying to coordinate my squad 95% of the time .

week ago my squad killed like 50 tango in defense with +20000 pts but others  SL's diss me in the red mic saying im useless . i also tried to create an artillerie squad , we handle it quite well me 0-1 and my buddy who was firing killed like an entire squad from 700 meters , same sl dissing me at the end even tho no one was responding in the game when we ask if the need arty support or even feedback about the aiming . 

so yes the scorboard need more features . 

Edited by Souf

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Or maybe we should just ditch the scoreboard because it does nothing beyond conflict and shit talking. Here's an older thread on the topic, and there are many more:

 

 

Edited by Tartantyco

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Why does anyone need a score system for bullshit in the first place? I'm fully content with a simple K/D display at the end of the round due to me being curious, how well I did during that round, how much I contributed(or didn't) to the team's success I know best myself. PR uses a similar point system that awards people points for sticking together, revives, taking flags, building FOBs. Supposedly that system gives a greater incentive to play properly in theory and it could be true, on the other hand I recently had an instance of a Squad constructing 1(one!) Super FOB in an admittedly not bad position, just not relevant to the fight. When normally people would try get involved in capturing, to them manning it over the course of the entire round was more important, because only then they could boast over how many points they've gotten from just sitting there(let's face it, if you're only killing 3 people as a squad of 8 in 30 minutes you're not productive whatsoever) after the round was over. Meanwhile I ran around with my Heavy Anti-Tank Kit in the enemy's backlines, killing a Tank, an IFV and 2 APCs, one of which at full capacity.

 

I mean, if people want to believe that these points are reflective of their impact on the match just let them in be, no point in arguing. Switch teams instead and make them cry.

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Fir3w411   

The scoreboard gives you an idea as to how the enemy's doing. 

 

Why remove it just because of some idiots talking about it at the end of the round? 

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23 minutes ago, Fir3w411 said:

The scoreboard gives you an idea as to how the enemy's doing. 

 

Why remove it just because of some idiots talking about it at the end of the round? 

 

I don't think you should get that kind of intel from the scoreboard. You should know how the enemy is doing based on the state of the playing field, and that's it. Just another reason to remove it.

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Fir3w411   

In reality you'd know these things, wouldn't you? (Enemy and friendly deaths and casualties, tanks destroyed, etc..)

 

Or dk you want to rely on your own team (the same one that can't even report a fob sometimes) to always provide this information? 

 

 

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Do we want to turn this into a hardcore military simulation or a tactical shooter? What's the point of tickets anyway then? I thought Squad wants to be the successor of Project Reality. If you do not know how the enemy team is doing e.g. k/d wise random players will just give up instantly and not even bother saving tickets. Removing the scoreboard is a way to ruin any close match beacause nobody has a clue how good or bad they actually are.

Edited by blacktea65

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@blacktea65 You already don't know the enemy k/d in Squad. That's not shown until the match ends. The game has not yet descended into anarchy so I think it would survive without the scoreboard...

 

@Fir3w411 And you know these things in Squad by virtue of communicating it. If you destroy a BTR, you inform your team about it. You do not a have a scoreboard in real life that automatically updates your k/d for you. Statistics are gathered manually through reports. 

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Tickets are the most important asset (that's right, bold, italic and underlined)in the game, the entire scoring system (if we even need a scoring system, I'm not convinced we do) should revolve around tickets earned and tickets lost.

 

No personal k/d, even at the end of the match, instead either display squad k/d or none at all, I couldn't care less. Personal stats are the death of teamplay, they mostly  only provide incentive for players to play selfishly and their dubious benefits ("I can check how well I did") don't outweigh their negative impact. If you absolutely have to see personal stats in Squad, then just display tickets earned/lost per player, that is the best way we currently have to determine "how well you're doing", definitely not by k/d.

 

If all of the players could believe for 1 minute that we could do away with personal stats, the entire Squad would  become so much better.

 

Edited by MultiSquid

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Tickets won/lost isn't a good benchmark, either. Easy example is two guys with RPGs firing on a BTR. Only one of them gets the tickets, but both of them are equally responsible for the BTR going down. And there's no shortage of situations like this, where other players and other squads are responsible for other players and other squads being able to take down enemy soldiers or vehicles, cap flags, or take down FOBs.

 

This is the fundamental problem with any scoreboard. You simply cannot accurately reflect the impact of indirect effects, which is a huge part of teamwork. Your squad ties down the enemy so another squad can cap the flag. You report on enemy vehicle movement that results in another squad taking it out.

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LugNut   

I'd support no scoreboard, or just teamwide, If people are compelled to have stats, I think they should be accessible out of the match, so you could look up your career stats, k/d, hours per role, whatever you wanted, it just wouldn't be observable to anyone else in game. 

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End of the day all that matters is who won. Either your tactics worked and you prevailed or they didn't and you lost. Enough of this shit of one squad blaming everyone else for losing even though their squad K/D is negative but they superfobbed a flag all game and got a bazillion points.

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it's pathetic that some fell the need to blame others at all - grow up, it's only a Game.

 

Get rid of the Ticket system = problem solved (most likely).

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