Jump to content
Catindabox

LMGs not lethal enough

Recommended Posts

Everytime me or someone else uses an LMG it seems like you are barely a danger to the enemy. Having a semi-auto m4 makes you a much more dangerous, effective, and hidden suppressing asset- but whenever you use an LMG the enemy knows that there is a very small chance you can actually kill them unless you're in a great blindspot position prone. They see your tracers, your exposed prone position, and pop up and kill you. The suppression effects are minimal, and as I said, they will just poke up from a hidden position and shoot you without fear.

 

I feel like it has been this way for far too long and that bipods will not really do much to help. In Arma 3, for example, the LMGs are often the go-to weapon if you can get it- deadly and accurate. Here they are nothing more than a light show.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was word in previous update notes about LMG getting upgrade with damage, and that future is planed penetration. Adding ti that tripod deployment I see OP being the future  for LMG. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Smee said:

There was word in previous update notes about LMG getting upgrade with damage, and that future is planed penetration. Adding ti that tripod deployment I see OP being the future  for LMG. 

Hmm, why would it get an upgrade in damage if the m249 uses the same caliber as the M4?

 

I feel like a slow movement/mouse sensitivity "deploy mode" while walking or standing up where your character braces for the recoil would benefit it a lot, as it stands in PR. It would reduce the recoil significantly for the maneuverability trade offs, but not pin point like a bi-pod.

Edited by Catindabox

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only thing that the LMG should get is a bipod. Since that is being implemented in the future, it will up it's lethality. Anything else would be bad to implement. I've used the AR on all the factions in this game. I like them not because of their role but because it's basically a regular rifle with more ammo. At least to me. I tap the SAW and use it like an M4 unless it's CQC. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly, until bipods make an appearance, it's really not even worth discussing; the use of LMGs will change hugely. It'll be nice for the 249 but especially for the RPK, considering right now it's just used as an AK with more ammo. I think damage buffs are out of the question.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

maxresdefault.jpg

Can't wait imo. 
Coming from BF3, i hated suppression, i much rather we changed the ammo type (Ghost Recon:FS Incendiary rounds, anyone? :) ) or some other strategy, but we will have to wait until bipods work, one of the big things i found with LMGs is that not being able to mount them on chest high walls really crippled them, so you could say a buff is already coming! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, ZiGreen said:

Have you ever tried to kill enemies instead of suppressing?

 

 


With all due respect, your game looks absolutely horrible. Once you get off the easy mode (with your graphical exploits) and play the game properly on decent graphical setting this stuff you showed holds no weight. Disguasting.

About LMG, it needs a working bipod which will neutralise most of the recoil once deployed on a solid surface.

Edited by Rainmaker

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:


With all due respect, your game looks absolutely horrible. Once you get off the easy mode (with your graphical exploits) and play the game properly on decent graphical setting this stuff you showed holds no weight. Disguasting.

About LMG, it needs a working bipod which will neutralise most of the recoil once deployed on a solid surface.

Militia stand out quite a bit with their current black uniforms, but those .ini tweaks make them stand out x10 more.

Can't wait for the day when .ini files are completely locked down. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Dubs said:

Militia stand out quite a bit with their current black uniforms, but those .ini tweaks make them stand out x10 more.

Can't wait for the day when .ini files are completely locked down. 

Also off topic, why even post those on the game's forums to show how scummy your settings are. It's just stupid.

 

Anyway the SAW really only shines as an SMG in <20m engagements at the moment 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The LMGs (particularly the M249) is great at close range. It's high fire rate makes it a perfect contender along with it's, what, 200 round mag? Don't remember if it's 100 or 200. But yeah, the bipod is a super big handicap. As soon as we get the ability to deploy bipods, I think you'll see just how much more useful it is. I mean hiding behind a sandbag wall and shooting at an enemy fob is near impossible unless you're laying down. It would give FOB fortifications a whole new meaning. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Nikko B said:

The LMGs (particularly the M249) is great at close range. It's high fire rate makes it a perfect contender along with it's, what, 200 round mag? Don't remember if it's 100 or 200. But yeah, the bipod is a super big handicap. As soon as we get the ability to deploy bipods, I think you'll see just how much more useful it is. I mean hiding behind a sandbag wall and shooting at an enemy fob is near impossible unless you're laying down. It would give FOB fortifications a whole new meaning. 

 

100 for US, 200 for Militia :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lack of suppression is the issue with the LMGs. Getting shot at by a 249 in PR is horrifying. Getting shot at by an LMG in Squad causes me to side step and slot the bloke almost immediately.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

7 hours ago, ZiGreen said:

Have you ever tried to kill enemies instead of suppressing?

 

 

6.45 neatly illustrates what's wrong with the game in it's current state. Zero ill-effects to your weapon handling or inertia after a dead-sprint across a field, nailed 1 bloke in a vehicle, followed up with a series of perfectly executed and disgustingly gamey dropshots on dudes you could only see because of your graphical settings. Brilliant video haha.

 

 

Edited by Cheesy_LeScrub

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Cheesy_LeScrub said:

Lack of suppression is the issue with the LMGs. Getting shot at by a 249 in PR is horrifying. Getting shot at by an LMG in Squad causes me to side step and slot the bloke almost immediately.


This is so true.

I couldn't have said it better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Cheesy_LeScrub said:

Lack of suppression is the issue with the LMGs. Getting shot at by a 249 in PR is horrifying. Getting shot at by an LMG in Squad causes me to side step and slot the bloke almost immediately.

That would be because when you're getting shot at in PR you can't see. You are literally not able to see anything. In Squad, when you're getting shot at, your screen gets a slight red tint. That's why people just shoot back when they're getting shot at, instead of ducking into cover (the latter being a much more realistic behavior, of course). But is this an unrealistic gameplay mechanic? Yes, it is! Wait though, does it make people behave in a much more realistic fashion! Why, yes it does.

 

I think we cracked the case (once again, for like a 20th time)!

 

Jane_MacQuitty__821_158658a.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Instead of calling people scumbags for playing the game how they want to, we could instead suggest how these things can be tweaked so people find them undesirable to do, as well as allowing people with lower-end PCs like my own to still play with a decent FPS.

 

I haven't played Project Reality, but if it really does make you as blind as you say it does, I don't think that's a great of a solution, either. I've noticed it's extremely hard to pay attention to my surroundings when I have filter effects on from both being critically wounded and suppressed instead of being completely blind. You also don't have that degree of spatial awareness you do that you will in an actual firefight than you do in a videogame, where you don't "feel" that you're on the ground or by a wall.

 

Maybe if youre prone the LMG could have a huge dampening on its recoil? It'd make more sense seeing how it's a less mobile but more dangerous weapon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Cheesy_LeScrub said:

 

6.45 neatly illustrates what's wrong with the game in it's current state. Zero ill-effects to your weapon handling or inertia after a dead-sprint across a field, nailed 1 bloke in a vehicle, followed up with a series of perfectly executed and disgustingly gamey dropshots on dudes you could only see because of your graphical settings. Brilliant video haha.

 

 

^ that, and the dolphin-diving - such CoD!, too n00b!

actually Cheesy', i'm surprised someone would be silly enough to post it, but he did.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, katyushadear said:

Instead of calling people scumbags for playing the game how they want to, we could instead suggest how these things can be tweaked so people find them undesirable to do, as well as allowing people with lower-end PCs like my own to still play with a decent FPS.

 

I haven't played Project Reality, but if it really does make you as blind as you say it does, I don't think that's a great of a solution, either. I've noticed it's extremely hard to pay attention to my surroundings when I have filter effects on from both being critically wounded and suppressed instead of being completely blind. You also don't have that degree of spatial awareness you do that you will in an actual firefight than you do in a videogame, where you don't "feel" that you're on the ground or by a wall.

 

Maybe if youre prone the LMG could have a huge dampening on its recoil? It'd make more sense seeing how it's a less mobile but more dangerous weapon.

Playing how you want to is fine, drop shots are cheesy but will be fixed with the upcoming animations system coming soon . The major issue is, not everyone who ini tweaks are doing it solely for performance(people have more than capable PCs, yet still ini tweak), even people who may have started off doing it for performance, eventually find a few tweaks here and there that'll give them major visual advantages. ini will be locked more near beta/full release, It's inevitable and people with 2009 hardware expecting to run 2016 - 2017 games will hit a reality wall and be forced to upgrade.

Suppression in PR doesn't make you blind per say, it's more so partial blindness, using heavy Vignette and Gaussian blur. As volume of fire increased around you, the more vignette/blur would show up on screen, as you took cover or volume of fire decreased, after 1 - 2 seconds it would fade away. This mechanic helped pace firefights and made people think before engaging and crossing open fields. Here's a video showing it off pretty well.


It wasn't/isn't perfect, but it did it's job. Squads suppression system will have changes, devs have mentioned in the past making changes and possibly adding character reacting to cracks and whizzes with twitches etc. They def have something planned as Ross teased on reddit about it.hQF784R.jpg

Edited by Dubs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Dubs said:

Suppression in PR doesn't make you blind per say, it's more so partial blindness, using heavy Vignette and Gaussian blur. As volume of fire increased around you, the more vignette/blur would show up on screen, as you took cover or volume of fire decreased, after 1 - 2 seconds it would fade away. This mechanic helped pace firefights and made people think before engaging and crossing open fields. Here's a video showing it off pretty well.

 

That's awesome. I can't say I've seen much gameplay from PR as I dove into Squad straight from Arma but that mechanic would make firefights much more intense for sure. Even if they didn't want to make the blacking out/blurring effect quite as harsh they could add a mechanic by which while being suppressed your weapon stability is decreased similar to Red Orchestra or Insurgency making it harder to "side step and slot the guy". Very excited to see where this game goes as it gets more and more developed!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, TheFSM said:

That's awesome. I can't say I've seen much gameplay from PR as I dove into Squad straight from Arma but that mechanic would make firefights much more intense for sure. Even if they didn't want to make the blacking out/blurring effect quite as harsh they could add a mechanic by which while being suppressed your weapon stability is decreased similar to Red Orchestra or Insurgency making it harder to "side step and slot the guy". Very excited to see where this game goes as it gets more and more developed!

Arma with ACE3 has some DOF changes and discoloration when suppressed or explosions near by, made Arma Milsim firefights intense!
There's some old post on the forums somewhere with Squad devs talking about what they can possibly do to add to the Squad suppression system. I'll try find them, was interesting what they were saying.

RO has a nice suppression system, and general gun mechanics are decent too!

Indeed, Squad has a bright future. Just wish the Devs didn't tease as much :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Dubs said:

Arma with ACE3 has some DOF changes and discoloration when suppressed or explosions near by, made Arma Milsim firefights intense!

Indeed ACE does do a nice job of intensifying the already intense gunfights in Arma. Only really delved into heavily modded Milsim utilizing that kind of stuff fairly recently though and just haven't had enough time to put into it and experience it all.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hahah, nice reaction :) This is not my footage, just picked up a video from the guy who is really trained with LMG. I wouldn't talk about enemies which are visible only due to graphical exploits, cause there is a big difference between watching pre-recorded video and actual gameplay. Also, there is no need to mention black militia spots. You asked for this cause you weren't able to tell the difference between militants and russians (even with nametags, jeez).

 

It is also really sad to see how brutal logic is being raped through suppression and game pace discussions. Implementing suppression to bring down the pace of firefights? It is just a nonsense. Suppression FORCES you to move and shoot faster, to get an advantage over the enemy. Also, suppression removes the difference between exposed and concealed or fortified enemy, allowing for mad rabbits to rule the battlefield.

 

Right position is the key element in firefights. Right position gives you defense, weapon rest, proper angle of view and concealement. These ones are the natural advantages, not subjective and undetermined "fear of death" factors. A proper game pace will be achieved if players will look for proper positions, not for the chance to make the first shot.

 

As I said many times before, if you are able to kill an enemy wh ostarted to bring the lead rain upon you before you even noticed him - he has no clue how to play this game. There is no need to encourage people who just shoot at every moving object they see and give them such benefit as suppression.

 

8 hours ago, katyushadear said:

Instead of calling people scumbags for playing the game how they want to, we could instead suggest how these things can be tweaked so people find them undesirable to do, as well as allowing people with lower-end PCs like my own to still play with a decent FPS.

 

I haven't played Project Reality, but if it really does make you as blind as you say it does, I don't think that's a great of a solution, either. I've noticed it's extremely hard to pay attention to my surroundings when I have filter effects on from both being critically wounded and suppressed instead of being completely blind. You also don't have that degree of spatial awareness you do that you will in an actual firefight than you do in a videogame, where you don't "feel" that you're on the ground or by a wall.

 

Maybe if youre prone the LMG could have a huge dampening on its recoil? It'd make more sense seeing how it's a less mobile but more dangerous weapon.

 

This guy is the common sense beacon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, ZiGreen said:

Hahah, nice reaction :) This is not my footage, just picked up a video from the guy who is really trained with LMG. I wouldn't talk about enemies which are visible only due to graphical exploits, cause there is a big difference between watching pre-recorded video and actual gameplay. Also, there is no need to mention black militia spots. You asked for this cause you weren't able to tell the difference between militants and russians (even with nametags, jeez).

 

It is also really sad to see how brutal logic is being raped through suppression and game pace discussions. Implementing suppression to bring down the pace of firefights? It is just a nonsense. Suppression FORCES you to move and shoot faster, to get an advantage over the enemy. Also, suppression removes the difference between exposed and concealed or fortified enemy, allowing for mad rabbits to rule the battlefield.

 

Right position is the key element in firefights. Right position gives you defense, weapon rest, proper angle of view and concealement. These ones are the natural advantages, not subjective and undetermined "fear of death" factors. A proper game pace will be achieved if players will look for proper positions, not for the chance to make the first shot.

 

As I said many times before, if you are able to kill an enemy wh ostarted to bring the lead rain upon you before you even noticed him - he has no clue how to play this game. There is no need to encourage people who just shoot at every moving object they see and give them such benefit as suppression.

 

 

This guy is the common sense beacon.

I wouldn't say he's really trained with the mg, drop shotting enemies he shouldn't be able to see so easy due to ini tweaks isn't being trained. That's called pushing boundaries with an over competitive mindset to wave his E-Penis around about how much kills he has at the end of the game. 

Suppression is a big factor in games like Squad and PR. Without proper suppression, the game become a 'point and shoot' game and makes individual shooting ability more important than it needs to be. This is one thing PR does better than Squad. Squad currently is about parkour run n gun mlg optic sniping people, where 2 or 3 good shooters can carry a whole game. 

"As I said many times before, if you are able to kill an enemy wh ostarted to bring the lead rain upon you before you even noticed him - he has no clue how to play this game. There is no need to encourage people who just shoot at every moving object they see and give them such benefit as suppression."
LOL LMAO You what mate? You do realize this isn't some CSGO one man army game right? You do realize the game is called "SQUAD", not "RAMBO" right?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Dubs said:

Suppression is a big factor in games like Squad and PR. Without proper suppression, the game become a 'point and shoot' game and makes individual shooting ability more important than it needs to be. This is one thing PR does better than Squad. Squad currently is about parkour run n gun mlg optic sniping people, where 2 or 3 good shooters can carry a whole game. 

 

Have you read my post? I just said that suppression will give undeserved benefits to players who are the fastest gunslingers. Why should someone been pinned down and dead in progress, just because his opponent was the first to pull the trigger?

 

8 minutes ago, Dubs said:

"As I said many times before, if you are able to kill an enemy wh ostarted to bring the lead rain upon you before you even noticed him - he has no clue how to play this game. There is no need to encourage people who just shoot at every moving object they see and give them such benefit as suppression."
LOL LMAO You what mate? You do realize this isn't some CSGO one man army game right? You do realize the game is called "SQUAD", not "RAMBO" right?

 

Read my post again. Since when "Squad" is about the fastest gun and not about skills and tactical decisions?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×