Bishop

Make Squad great again...

So I am starting this thread not to drum up WHY the game got toxic quickly over the last few months, but how do we fix the issue to bring back old players and educate the new ones of the quality of community?

 

I've put in about 1000 hours of game play from December 2015 to roughly November 2016. I know many people have put in way more and quit playing for the same reason I have. Once the free weekend last fall occurred and a slew of new players entered the game things seemed to go way downhill in terms of community friendliness and quality of teamwork. 

I've tried playing several different times on different servers (that were available) since last fall and I just can't get past the players. It seems like old players and new ones are quick to jump down each others throats, troll, tk, and be verbally abusive.

This isn't just a personal observation either. I have a group on my friends list for players I've played squad with in the past that were great teammates and quality members of the community. That list is around 150 people from all over the world. I think on average i see maybe 2-4 people playing squad throughout the day and typically they don't play very long. This used to be 20-30 on average playing any time in the day. When I ask them about the game they say "it's too toxic," or "i just can't play that game anymore."  

I know i miss playing squad. What measures are in place to increase teamwork and decrease the level of trolling and player abuse going on? 

 

  1. Can we see some sort of SL vote kick feature?
  2. Maybe a time in requirement for important Roles?
  3. Some form of team vote kick for tker's as Admins often kick the wrong people or make the issue worse.
  4. Some form of mute feature to end players trolling others in local or in squad chat.
  5. Can we see changes in the conquest "every point can be captured" style map it seems awful for teamwork and every server I've joined with it playing never works together. 
  6. A commander role with some sort of vote into the position from the other players. This might help squads work together more.
  7. Possibly a pre-named squad list you can join or edit the name of such as "engineer, fob support, forward observation, assault, defense, etc."


 

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44 minutes ago, Bishop said:

~op~

  1. You can always leave the squad you don't like and join or make another. Vote kicking undermines the SL's authority and puts more power into the hands of non-SL players - no, thank you. The SL always has to be the top dog of his squad, period.
  2. Time requirements for SL's or others have been proposed in the past, got rejected for various reasons.
  3. Vote kicking can be abused much easier than admin powers, no thanks. Again, you're proposing giving a common player more power than he should have (nonsense, considering in your own post you complain about people trolling and being toxic)
  4. Also had been proposed, didn't pass because it's easy to abuse and doesn't conform to the aim of Squad - teamwork and communication.
  5. I agree, contrary to what some people seem to believe, conquest doesn't belong in a tactical game, at least not in the shape and form we have now.
  6. We will probably have some kind of a commander position, but don't make the mistake of thinking that it will magically solve player's bad attitude, they have to do that on their own. If anything, commander could make the problem worse.
  7. Also proposed, as far as I know deemed unnecessary because it would limit the squad's options to their chosen purpose and decrease flexibility.
Edited by MultiSquid

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thanks for the well thought out responses. Yeah i agree a vote option can definitely be abused. I just threw out a bunch of ideas to get a conversation going. 

I feel like the mute feature would still be really nice to get rid of the trolls not in your squad running around with an open mic singing songs. 

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IMO, we have to speak up against the toxic behavior as it happens.  If people start with the negativity, tell them to lay off.   If they do not, report them for toxic behavior and griefing.  Hopefully you're on a server where the admin will enforce it.  The tacticalgamer server is one where toxicity is not tolerated (full disclosure I am TG).

 

Also, support your friendlies who stand up to the toxic players.  Make it clear in VOIP that the toxic behavior is unacceptable.  

 

Additionally, cut it out with the 'why the **** did squad 2 put a FOB there?'  'what the **** is squad 3 doing?'.  Be respectful of other people's lack of skill and experience.  No one is born knowing the best FOB locations.  Teach them.  And do so with courtesy.  Set an example.  If you are the squad lead, tame your rude members.  

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24 minutes ago, BleedingKnee said:

IMO, we have to speak up against the toxic behavior as it happens.  If people start with the negativity, tell them to lay off.   If they do not, report them for toxic behavior and griefing.  Hopefully you're on a server where the admin will enforce it.  The tacticalgamer server is one where toxicity is not tolerated (full disclosure I am TG).

 

Also, support your friendlies who stand up to the toxic players.  Make it clear in VOIP that the toxic behavior is unacceptable.  

 

Additionally, cut it out with the 'why the **** did squad 2 put a FOB there?'  'what the **** is squad 3 doing?'.  Be respectful of other people's lack of skill and experience.  No one is born knowing the best FOB locations.  Teach them.  And do so with courtesy.  Set an example.  If you are the squad lead, tame your rude members.  

^^This

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bleedingknee took the words out of my mouth. especially the FOB shaming in SL chat.

 

This is a community issue, and the community will have to work together to fix it in my opinion. be pro-active, if you have lots of time in squad you should consider SLing and using that level of authority to police your squad mates and others from doing battlefield/cod/ other arcade multiplayer BS. (directed at everyone not just OP).

 

Hopefully the more we bring this up, the more people will realize it as a problem and come back to squad to get the FNGs in line and show them how fun this game is when played properly.

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I've been playing since i posted the OP over at Desmo's server and after 2 rounds I went SL to keep my squad from turning into a troll fest.  That is a good point paul_onesix, those of us who can SL and lead by example should. I think it becomes a chore sometimes to have to SL, but you are right we should step up and take that responsibility at least until everyone else starts coming around.  

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OP interesting suggestions but I can't see most of them being put in or even considered until at least beta.

But there really is a simple fix, hook up with an established clan and play with them. At least that sorts your Squad out in terms of decent regular game play.

Granted it doesn't solve all the issues, but it makes such a difference.

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I for one really enjoy the Conquest mode in SQUAD as it is, and feel it offers more replay-ability than the current repetitive nature of AAS in SQUAD.

 

I think Conquest takes more coordination and teamwork between the squads and the whole team, because you don't always know where the opposing team will be, what point they need to cap...and the currently annoying tactic of a whole team (minus a few) rushing to the opposing sides 1st or 2nd cap point at the beginning of a match is rendered ineffective.

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9 hours ago, Bishop said:
  • Can we see some sort of SL vote kick feature?
  • Maybe a time in requirement for important Roles?
  • Some form of team vote kick for tker's as Admins often kick the wrong people or make the issue worse.
  • Some form of mute feature to end players trolling others in local or in squad chat.
  • Can we see changes in the conquest "every point can be captured" style map it seems awful for teamwork and every server I've joined with it playing never works together. 
  • A commander role with some sort of vote into the position from the other players. This might help squads work together more.
  • Possibly a pre-named squad list you can join or edit the name of such as "engineer, fob support, forward observation, assault, defense, etc."

 

SL Vote kick? No. The SL must have complete control of his squad. If you're not happy with the SL, then MAKE YOUR OWN SQUAD.

 

Time in requirement? No. The SL should instead be able to exert full control over what kits are available to his squad members(Read Kitless Loadout System and ISKLR).

 

Team vote kick? As a customizable option for admins to turn on or off, sure.

 

Mute feature?  Sure, whatever. Not really had any issues with this.

 

Conquest mode is awesome. You should jump on the Mumblerines server for some good Conquest gameplay. However, I've made another suggestion that would provide structure.

 

Commander role? I'm not really sure what this would do, really. It hasn't worked out in PR, and I don't see a good way of implementing it. You can't give one person too much power as it will just be targeted for abuse, and without much power nobody will care.

 

Pre-named squads? Sure, as long as there's no actual mechanical effects or restrictions on what that squad can do. Again, this is one of the things the ISKLR suggestion would accomplish.

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i got into an argument with another squad leader for wanting to put a fob in the middle of a feild and got called an idiot and that i need to read the art of warfare. i really wish i was making that up but after i burnt his first fob he did it again and that fob was the pinned down because he put sandbags around the fob and one yes one guy with an acog pinned down a whole fob. i love teaching people how to fob and super fob things correctly but i cant help it when people do that and refuse to listen.

 this is what i try to bring to squad with fobs on points but if it wasnt for supporting squads then this fob wouldnt have done so well.

so when it comes to a time system or ranking system to stop newbs from being sl then im all for it because you cant read a book and act like you know how things work. i know im a decent sl im not perfect and have a shit ton to learn and try to adjust to but for **** sakes even the perfect sl couldnt help the guy i was in a game with.

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cba reading this, the title is bait surely.

 

Also , nothing is toxic, go to a better server.

 

Or!

 

Lets build a wall and make the trolls pay for it!

Trolls, PM me for paypal deposit details.

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  1. Can we see some sort of SL vote kick feature? I wouldn't mind seeing the Commander have an ability to initiate such a poll with all other SLs voting
  2. Maybe a time in requirement for important Roles? Too restrictive. Just give the SL the ability to lock certain kits to certain people.
  3. Some form of team vote kick for tker's as Admins often kick the wrong people or make the issue worse. A report feature, for when you get teamhit. Someone does team damage 5 times and the damaged players report him each time - he gets kicked. There's little potential for abuse, because you have to hit someone to get reported, but it's also not too automatic, because you can choose not to report someone - when you know it was an accident etc.
  4. Some form of mute feature to end players trolling others in local or in squad chat. Yes, please. I think it'd also be good if an admin could see how many people muted a person for themselves.
  5. Can we see changes in the conquest "every point can be captured" style map it seems awful for teamwork and every server I've joined with it playing never works together. That's a player problem, not the game. I myself played a couple good Conquest matches since it was added.
  6. A commander role with some sort of vote into the position from the other players. This might help squads work together more. Vote into position from other SLs, imo.
  7. Possibly a pre-named squad list you can join or edit the name of such as "engineer, fob support, forward observation, assault, defense, etc." Game is too fluid for something like that + you can name your squad whatever you want anyway. Not sure if I caught this question - probably misunderstood. But it would be pretty good to see some details about a game from the server browser, before you join. Like how long they've been playing. How many squads there are on each team. Etc.

    I see a lot of people saying - if you don't like the SL make your own squad - and while that's true to an extent, I feel like the problem isn't as much the bad SL, but the sheep-like players that flock towards squads like that. If you make your own squad, those players still won't give a shit that they are being led by a SL without a mic and who takes them to an uncap point on the map. But, it still hurts the team as a whole. 
    I am not blaming those players at all, they are just learning the game, but when you let squads like that exist then it just slows down the proccess of those players learning the game. It's just counterproductive, not to mention annoying to the team with a squad or squads like that.
    Then every time a lot of content is added into the game and you get an influx of new players, you get a greater and greater % of players that didn't yet learn the game mechanics, because of this phenomenon of inexperienced SLs and after a while, the community will not be able to keep up and the learning curves will be too split - with a half of the players knowing what to do, and the other half not knowing anything.
    I think a squad-disband poll, initiated by a Commander and voted through by all other SLs could help contain this, if not completely abolish it.

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What I've learned from voting systems in games is that two kinds of people exist: Those who don't care enough to participate, and those with malicious intent. As long as the voting pool is large enough, the former win out, but in smaller voting pools (Such as SLs only) players can easily rig the vote.

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On 26/1/2017 at 3:50 PM, MultiSquid said:
  1. You can always leave the squad you don't like and join or make another. Vote kicking undermines the SL's authority and puts more power into the hands of non-SL players - no, thank you. The SL always has to be the top dog of his squad, period.
  2. Time requirements for SL's or others have been proposed in the past, got rejected for various reasons.
  3. Vote kicking can be abused much easier than admin powers, no thanks. Again, you're proposing giving a common player more power than he should have (nonsense, considering in your own post you complain about people trolling and being toxic)
  4. Also had been proposed, didn't pass because it's easy to abuse and doesn't conform to the aim of Squad - teamwork and communication.
  5. I agree, contrary to what some people seem to believe, conquest doesn't belong in a tactical game, at least not in the shape and form we have now.
  6. We will probably have some kind of a commander position, but don't make the mistake of thinking that it will magically solve player's bad attitude, they have to do that on their own. If anything, commander could make the problem worse.
  7. Also proposed, as far as I know deemed unnecessary because it would limit the squad's options to their chosen purpose and decrease flexibility.

i agree i play only SL ,  adding something to allow not SL player to Kick the SL is a very bad idea . if someone is not happy with my lead he can try to lead is own squad period . 

-prenamed squad name is a very good idea tho ! it's very annoying to rewrite the squad name each new game ! 

 

-maybe some tips in the loading screen , instead of only having the screen with the keyboard make one who says things like "Squad is a teamplay game "  or " having a microphone will greatly increas your experience .  stuff like that i think  you have the general idea of those  tips loading screen . the idea behind is to encourage evryone to play as a "squad " even if the game itself is named squad some ppl dont get it lol .

 

-conquest mode is not fit for squad,  maybe if you add supply point on some strategical flag its can be nice . if one flag can speed up the supply for your fob the game change completly . 

 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Tartantyco said:

What I've learned from voting systems in games is that two kinds of people exist: Those who don't care enough to participate, and those with malicious intent. As long as the voting pool is large enough, the former win out, but in smaller voting pools (Such as SLs only) players can easily rig the vote.


Well that just comes down to the kind of community that you have on your server.
If you have toxic SLs that will vote in a toxic Commander, who will flag a non-toxic squad and the toxic SLs will vote that squad out then it obviously won't work.
This system would rely precisely on cultivating a community on your server, in which the majority of SLs are like-minded and strive for teamwork, which after all should be all licensed servers, according to the guidelines. 

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12 hours ago, Peerun said:


Well that just comes down to the kind of community that you have on your server.
If you have toxic SLs that will vote in a toxic Commander, who will flag a non-toxic squad and the toxic SLs will vote that squad out then it obviously won't work.
This system would rely precisely on cultivating a community on your server, in which the majority of SLs are like-minded and strive for teamwork, which after all should be all licensed servers, according to the guidelines. 

 

Any server capable of cultivating a good community would also have the admin presence to make voting unnecessary.

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20 minutes ago, Tartantyco said:

Any server capable of cultivating a good community would also have the admin presence to make voting unnecessary.


Any well cultivated community would be able to reduce the amount of admin work required, if given the option.

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3 minutes ago, Peerun said:


Any well cultivated community would be able to reduce the amount of admin work required, if given the option.

 

My point is that voting systems really only work in instances where they aren't necessary. If you have a well-cultivated community, you're probably not going to have to vote kick people. Introducing vote kicking won't make shit servers not shit.

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