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Aniallator

How to give the Militia an edge

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The US and Russian factions usually have the upper hand against the Militia, for one simple reason. Vehicles. Say what you will about the M4A1 or woodland EMR, but the HMMWV and BTR-80 are the game-changers when it comes to fighting conventional factions. So, how to address this dilemma?

Uh... BRDM-2 anyone?

 

ve_sct_brdm2_v1.jpg

 

Implemented right, the BRDM-2 would help to balance the Militia faction while retaining asymmetry and realism. Compared to the BTR-80, it has the same 14.5 mm KPVT as its primary armament (making the devs' job a bit simpler), while having somewhat thinner armor and a smaller carrying capacity. I would give it the same ticket value and respawn time as the CROWS and set the limit to one BRDM, though perhaps two on vehicle-centric maps like Yehorivka; technicals should still be the primary source of vehicular firepower. Furthermore, the BRDM-2 opens the devs to a world of variants, including ones mounting anti-air or anti-tank missiles.

 

BRDM-2s have been used for decades in conflicts all over the world, most recently in the War in Ukraine, a region where the Militia faction is hypothetically set.

Edited by Aniallator

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Militia is harder to play because more communications and teamwork are needed to operate this faction. 

 

Imo one of the best way to play this class is to play it fast. In fact, one of the latest update was made to give militia a better advantage (check out their vehicle buff). If possible, one or two squad has to rush out with transport vehicle and build a fob + ammo crate (this will help to, hopefully, stop the btr/humvee), and stop the enemy from advancing forward with their cap point. It's true that the opposition can attempt the same strategy and stop the militia from capping too, but both Russian and American logistic trucks are way slower, making this strategy less applicable to them. 

Edited by LifeIsLikeABoxOfChoc
Grammar

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This is BRDM-2М.

BRDM-2 slightly diffirent.

300px-BRDM-2_(1964)_owned_by_James_Stewa

Yet,this vehicle interesting by many cases.

Edited by samogon

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There is already a btr with a custom militia paint job that was revealed months ago. Wonder why it's not in yet...

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I'd love to see the BRDM-2 in Militia. Maybe then the BTR did not feel himself a king. :)

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Gameplay with militia is not intended to be perfectly balanced. Please stop requesting balancing features.

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I don't think militia currently needs some buff or is lacking in vehicle department.

 

It could be a bit harder to shoot someone out of a technical though.

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I am so tired of trying to convince anyone that a slight jittery aim for each bullet whizzing by your head mechanic is a key to an effective suppressive fire and thus giving INS/Milita a higher chance to win firefights, and with winning firefights comes conquering enemy FOBS/Objectives and thus much easier to win the game.

 

It is hard to judge how the gunplay mechanics affects the gameplay without knowing the difference from other games. The classic example here is -> Darkest Hour 44-45, the mod for RO1 (not RO1 itself because there the jumping sight for whizzing bullets is absent).

 

Giving that Squad happened to have exactly the same shooting mechanics that DH 44-45 has, like let's just assume for a moment that it actually had everything from the level of sway (because sway in Squad is so low), aiming capability, penalty for getting hit like loss of aim (currently your aim is absolutely perfect and totally unswayed even if you get hit), jumping sight for whizzing bullets etc etc, all these details (because perfect gameplay always lies in details that's why the most mainstream games like BF/Cod are crap because they don't care about details).

 

If Squad had all these details to shooting mechanics that DH has then 100% the US or the Russian team wouldn't be so completely dominating the Militia/INS with their surplus of optics per each squad that they do now.

 

 

 

 

You're going to say "optics are not the only thing that decides the winning games by US/Russia team" ?? Please...... how many times I have gone over this argument.

 

For the last 1 or 2 weeks I've been trying to only play and try to win as Militia/INS. And the only reason we've won is because I was playing as a squad leader and was very cleverly placing our fobs that no enemy could ever take it and destroying along the way at least 2-3 enemy fobs, also partially by the stupidity of players on the US/Russian team.

 

Still, notice all those screenshots how in literally every single won game that we won as Militia/INS, the US/Russian team still has way larger number of kills.

 

And I swear I'm not trying to brag that I played those won games as militia extremely well but just merely trying to make a point that if I didn't play as a SL and try to do as best as I can, the US/Russian team would have an absolute walk in the park with their optics to steamroll through the map because that's what usually happens every other time.

 

NXRY7d4.jpg

va6ushP.jpg

tKP6csm.jpg

 

Notice all those screenshots how in literally every single won game that we won as Militia/INS, the US/Russian team still has larger number of kills. Sorry but kills do have a huge impact on winning the game. Why? Because in order to destroy that enemy FOB or get to the enemy objective YOU DO HAVE TO KILL THAT ENEMY DEFENDING IT FIRST. In order to get to that enemy FOB and objective, the kills is what facilitates the squad to actually secure it. And here where the totally unrealistic use of optics with 0 sway on standing position and no penalty for getting hit, turning 180 and killing you instantly and no jumping sight for whizzing bullets making suppressive fire ineffective comes into issue.

 

The absence of these mechanics is the core cause of most of the imbalance that is in the game. Not the absence of more super weapons that militia doesn't have...

 

Now I know that weapon resting over objects feature is confirmed which subsequently should increase way more the sway when actually not resting weapons making it much harder to aim while running and standing in the open field but still features like penalty for getting hit is desperately needed and if only Squad had my favourite feature of getting jittery aim for each whizzing bullets just like it's in DH 44-45 where there is just a tiny jump of your sight, it would make me so happy and I would be so thankful to devs if they ever did add that great gunplay feature to the game.

 

Edited by Friesen

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55 minutes ago, wingman9 said:

Gameplay with militia is not intended to be perfectly balanced. Please stop requesting balancing features.

 

Of course it's not, and you're mistaken if you think adding one BRDM-2 would perfectly balance it. Eventually the Militia will doubtless receive such vehicles as the BMP and possibly something along the lines of a T-64 anyway, as in PR, so I really don't see your point.

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19 minutes ago, Aniallator said:

 

Of course it's not, and you're mistaken if you think adding one BRDM-2 would perfectly balance it. Eventually the Militia will doubtless receive such vehicles as the BMP and possibly something along the lines of a T-64 anyway, as in PR, so I really don't see your point.

Not to mention the biggest issue with Militia right now is that it isn't played like an unconventional force. It's practically a worse version of conventional forces if you put two equally competent teams against each other. It takes way more work to win.

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At some point it would be great to see the BRDM-2 introduced, but I think giving the Militia a liberal amount of truck mounted ZU-23-2s would be far more interesting.

 

original-1.jpg

 

The issue I see with adding a BRDM-2 now is that it would just perform like an underpowered BTR, whereas a gun truck is a completely different beast. Now there are issues with the gun truck, namely that a marksman could immediately eliminate the threat as so often happens with the current techies, but given that the gunner in sitting that may not be as much of an issue.

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3 hours ago, Friesen said:

You're going to say "optics are not the only thing that decides the winning games by US/Russia team"

 

I am, because they're not. The greater presence of optics in conventional factions gives them an edge for sure, but that's a topic for another thread. Hit penalties, a reworked suppression system, these are things that have already been confirmed.

 

The superiority of American/Russian vehicles plays a huge factor. On Logar, all the US has to do is bumrush two squads and a couple HMMWS to South Residence, or sit a CROWS on the hill just west of their main, and the Militia will eat .50 BMG for the rest of the round. Asymmetry is a key aspect of squad, so I don't just want to replace the techies with BRDMs, but allocating the Militia one BRDM at least gives them more options, and if used well the possibility to overcome the menace of conventional armored vehicles.

 

 

3 hours ago, Catindabox said:

Not to mention the biggest issue with Militia right now is that it isn't played like an unconventional force. It's practically a worse version of conventional forces if you put two equally competent teams against each other. It takes way more work to win.

 

Exactly! What I would give to have faction-specific squad and team tactics guides available in the main screen, so prospective SLs could have a read up.

 

 

2 hours ago, Stom said:

At some point it would be great to see the BRDM-2 introduced, but I think giving the Militia a liberal amount of truck mounted ZU-23-2s would be far more interesting.

 

The issue I see with adding a BRDM-2 now is that it would just perform like an underpowered BTR, whereas a gun truck is a completely different beast. Now there are issues with the gun truck, namely that a marksman could immediately eliminate the threat as so often happens with the current techies, but given that the gunner in sitting that may not be as much of an issue.

 

Oh, the Zeus is a must :) I'm suggesting the BRDM-2 in large because it's more of a match to BTRs and HMMWS in its armament, armor, and carrying capacity, and because down the road AA and AT variants could be implemented, whereas the Zeus is basically direct fire artillery that occupies a strictly supportive role, and should never be withtin 150 meters of the enemy. But yes, an absolute 100% yes to gun trucks; I don't think anyone can disagree with that. Better yet, they're applicable to both the Insurgents and Militia, where the BRDM is only suited to the latter.

Edited by Aniallator

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But dear sir, I was trying to explain how the lack of mechanics in the gunplay vastly favours the optics and that they're not entirely deciding the outcome of the victory title but still play a very large role and I mention these shooting mechanics because not all of the gunplay mechanics that I have mentioned are confirmed to be added in the future (and which are very important to not be disregarded).

 

In fact a lot of the times the reason Militia wins over Russia/US team is because they blow up so many vehicles and that costs the US/Russian team a lot of tickets. However the amount of kills shown on the scoreboard at the end despite Militia winning the game is a clear proof that optic completely dominate any standard iron-sighted riflemen.

 

I never have as many kills playing as an iron-sighted weapon than what I usually get while playing in the Russian/US team as an optic rifle.

w4v2wyu.jpg

 

And when you dominate standard iron-sighted riflemen so easily your path via the enemy fob/objective is open and it facilitates the victory. It takes way less effort to do so playing while having the surplus of optics, even 1 more optic per squad than the other team makes a huge difference in an average percentage of winning the firefights. Since sometimes it's that last optic rifleman alive that kills and finishes off the entire enemy squad. It's just a walk in the park.

Edited by Friesen

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1 hour ago, Friesen said:

-snip-

 

So basically what you're jonsing for is a better suppression system? While I agree with that, that's not going to have a big impact on the Militia having trouble against conventional factions. It just won't. Hence, BRDM :) Down the road I can see the Strela-mounted BRDM being the Militia's primary AAV, and the "Spandrel" BRDM with Konkurs missiles would bode well against APCs and IFVs.

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Of course I'd love to see a BRDM for the Militia team or some other vehicle where the gunners are not exposed as they are in the current techies. However better suppression system and other shooting mechanics would definitely improve and prolong the firefights by not making them a completely useless dead-meat at longer than 50m where is just a simple tap-tap and you're dead because right now it's like shooting ducks at a range when using the optics and that so largely determines the chances of winning a battle.

 

I agree the current techies they are so exposed I don't think I've ever found them useful to actually use them to shoot at enemies, every time I start firing I get sniped by the optics within seconds.

 

This is why again I bring the issue of optics dominating not just single riflemen but techie gunners as well. They totally disarray any balance in terms of the gameplay on the battlefield.

 

The game just outright forces me to not play an iron-sighted weapon because most of the time that's a suicide unless you actually run up right behind the enemy really close which is rare. Let's say the BRDM gets added to the game... All that it will do it'll just make all the riflemen to rely on the BRDM and be the same old "hey BRDM can you deal with that enemy optic, take out that optic game", while all the standard riflemen being useless that can't even lay down an effective suppressive fire that would actually maim the optic rifleman and make his ability to return accurate fire dispersed.

 

I mean when I play Darkest Hour 44-45, the sniper with his optic is pretty dangerous when hidden. But the minute I actually start pouring bullets on the enemy sniper there is no way for him to even hit me back accurately. In SQUAD this is entirely opposite, and this is my the biggest issue with the game that deters me from playing. Might as well make it an all-out optic game or all-out iron-sighted game because the disparity between the two is just too huge.

 

Example at 9:55 (careful loud intro)

 

And because of these suppression effect mechanics in DH, the machine gunner is actually pretty powerful when he fires at you, the sniper has no chance to hit back accurately because of that jumping sight while the bullets are whizzing by. Eventually he snipes the machine gunner only when he stops firing at him.

Edited by Friesen

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20 hours ago, Friesen said:

-snip-

 

Could you stop repeating this? One post is enough, you didn't need two more making the exact same point. You want better suppression mechanics, great. I get it. But that's a topic for another thread. And look, I don't know if you've had a few especially bad rounds getting nailed by optics or if you just aren't good at ironsights, but at this point you're completely exaggerating. The game forces you not to play with ironsights because most of the time that's suicide? Bro... come on :P This thread is about how and why BRDM-2s should or should not be implemented, please keep it that way.

Edited by Aniallator

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maybe the devs will implement something in the Rcon to disable optics, excluding the marksman.

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Problem with militia is the game has asymmetric sides (conventional armies vs. militias), but currently the militias have no benefits, other than the extra frag round for the RPG. Their camo is worse, which is probably one of the biggest downsides to playing them, their weapons are worse, their optics are worse, their vehicles are worse or non-existent (in terms of heavier fire support with optics), and they don't even get extra tickets as a simple way to make up for it.

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I get it, you want BRDM, but the devil is in the details so can't just add the BRDM and ignore all the other details that causes this imbalance. Also the title is a bit misleading because it asks itself outright "How to give the Militia an edge". So I give my own honest answer that while the BRDM would probably make Militia win much more often, the infantry engagements would still be one-sided towards the surplus of optics of the other team. And the last post wasn't as much as repeating myself but more like trying to point out how it would be better to see first how the jumping sight suppression effects improve that current imbalance before adding the BRDM and by this trying to show an evidence through the video of how totally different the outcome of infantry firefights would be affected, given that Squad had the same suppression and sway mechanics that DH 44-45 mod has.

 

I'm bad at iron-sights? Really, so the first screenshot 24 kills the highest number of the whole team, even higher than the optic riflemen on our team (because the SL has no optic in Militia) isn't high enough for purely iron-sighted weapon then... (Mind you that only was possible because I kept taking enemy by surprise from the back all the time. There is no chance to win an engagement if both you and the enemy having an optic already see and fire at each other).

Edited by Friesen

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17 hours ago, Kerri said:

Problem with militia is the game has asymmetric sides (conventional armies vs. militias), but currently the militias have no benefits, other than the extra frag round for the RPG. Their camo is worse, which is probably one of the biggest downsides to playing them, their weapons are worse, their optics are worse, their vehicles are worse or non-existent (in terms of heavier fire support with optics), and they don't even get extra tickets as a simple way to make up for it.

 

You nailed it!

 

 

1 hour ago, Friesen said:

I get it, you want BRDM, but the devil is in the details so can't just add the BRDM and ignore all the other details that causes this imbalance. Also the title is a bit misleading because it asks itself outright "How to give the Militia an edge". So I give my own honest answer that while the BRDM would probably make Militia win much more often, the infantry engagements would still be one-sided towards the surplus of optics of the other team. And the last post wasn't as much as repeating myself but more like trying to point out how it would be better to see first how the jumping sight suppression effects improve that current imbalance before adding the BRDM and by this trying to show an evidence through the video of how totally different the outcome of infantry firefights would be affected, given that Squad had the same suppression and sway mechanics that DH 44-45 mod has.

 

I'm bad at iron-sights? Really, so the first screenshot 24 kills the highest number of the whole team, even higher than the optic riflemen on our team (because the SL has no optic in Militia) isn't high enough for purely iron-sighted weapon then... (Mind you that only was possible because I kept taking enemy by surprise from the back all the time. There is no chance to win an engagement if both you and the enemy having an optic already see and fire at each other).

 

Suppression mechanics will not magically change the imbalance between the Militia and conventional factions. You seem to forget that everyone is and will be affected by suppression, not just the people with optics, and from afar they will be able to suppress you a lot better than you can suppress them. I didn't say you were bad at ironsights, and if you think you're good at them why would you say using them is suicidal? You realize that ironsights or 1x sights are used by 80%-90% of players?

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But like in the DH video, optic only becomes effective the moment the machine gun stops firing. Not like in the video "Squad 2" where I demonstrated I pick out the enemy machine gunner behind sandbags while me standing up in the open and receiving continuous MG fire.

 

You seem to forget that having a zoomed-in view, the jumping effect of the sight is bound to be higher than a normal 1x zoom. So the enemy optic that receives a continuous fire wouldn't just have an easy time aiming back because of the jumping sight for each bullet whizzed by and would probably have to duck in cover (like in the video at 9:55 against the firing machine gun). Therefore optics or single shots in general will only be useful when not being pinned down.

 

Saying "you don't know if you just aren't good at ironsights it's implying I'm just bad at iron-sights, that's an implication.

 

Well if you read carefully the entire post I wrote "unless you run right behind enemy", it is suicidal like I described in situations where both you and the enemy optics already see and shoot at each other. And I wrote the only reason I scored the kills with the iron-sights because I took many enemies by surprise. Otherwise it is a suicide. You also have to take into accounts how penalty for getting hit would turn a lot of engagements differently since currently many times hitting the enemy once does absolutely nothing to him and often he kills you back. That happens so much more often when shooting at the optics. It wouldn't happen as much if there was at least some kind of penalty for getting hit like a drastically increased sway for instance. Do you see what I'm trying to get across now?

 

Giving that many times there is 3 optics per squad + the marksman that's about 40% of the squad so 80%-90% of the players is not entirely true since most of the kills are done by the optic (except occasionally for the grenadier but in this case we're only talking about optics vs iron-sights).

Edited by Friesen

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2 hours ago, Friesen said:

But like in the DH video, optic only becomes effective the moment the machine gun stops firing. Not like in the video "Squad 2" where I demonstrated I pick out the enemy machine gunner behind sandbags while me standing up in the open and receiving continuous MG fire.

 

You seem to forget that having a zoomed-in view, the jumping effect of the sight is bound to be higher than a normal 1x zoom. So the enemy optic that receives a continuous fire wouldn't just have an easy time aiming back because of the jumping sight for each bullet whizzed by and would probably have to duck in cover (like in the video at 9:55 against the firing machine gun). Therefore optics or single shots in general will only be useful when not being pinned down.

 

Saying "you don't know if you just aren't good at ironsights it's implying I'm just bad at iron-sights, that's an implication.

 

Well if you read carefully the entire post I wrote "unless you run right behind enemy", it is suicidal like I described in situations where both you and the enemy optics already see and shoot at each other. And I wrote the only reason I scored the kills with the iron-sights because I took many enemies by surprise. Otherwise it is a suicide. You also have to take into accounts how penalty for getting hit would turn a lot of engagements differently since currently many times hitting the enemy once does absolutely nothing to him and often he kills you back. That happens so much more often when shooting at the optics. It wouldn't happen as much if there was at least some kind of penalty for getting hit like a drastically increased sway for instance. Do you see what I'm trying to get across now?

 

Giving that many times there is 3 optics per squad + the marksman that's about 40% of the squad so 80%-90% of the players is not entirely true since most of the kills are done by the optic (except occasionally for the grenadier but in this case we're only talking about optics vs iron-sights).

 

Not even going to bother reading, please take this to another thread.

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Give the militia Katanas and black cloaks!  :-) or even throwing knives!

force2.jpg

Edited by XRobinson
throwing knife

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