Rainmaker

Graphic exploiters / cheaters

62 posts in this topic

Hello dear Developers,

 

Being involved with your game since the release on Steam and being part of core community, we in our unit have always been wondering will you make Squad cheater/exploit proof in the future. Being approched by some people saying that editing Squad ini files are allowed and better yet encouraged to do for better performance for the price of good graphics was disturbing to say the least. A topic explaining how to ruin your graphical visuals which is also pinned on this forum can be found here on this link:

 

I have tried to manipulate the settings like in the tutorial, and edited the ini files. And its unspeakable of what I have found. The gorgeous game that I have known is absolutelly disguasting and gross looking. The lightning is gross, there are no shadows, grass in the distance does not render, the detail of the gun is awful, the detail of the map reminds me of a game from 90s. Theres just no depth to the visual look of the game. That being said I gained on performance. I also (and this is IMPORTANT) gained advantage (which I could clearly see and feel) over other players. Because there was no shadows and some foilage was missing in the distance, all this combined with my good shooting ability made me easily see the enemy and dominate.

 

Its like being on easy mode.

We have always been wondering why sometimes some people could do certain stuff and shoot us from weird angles, even though we already knew how, now we tried it first hand. And the whole experience is horrible and disapointing.

 

As I am a leader of my unit this sort of stuff is very important to form my decision if I shall invest our efforts, like we did so far, further around your game. I would like to know if this whole ordeal will get adressed and in what way? Will there be some sort of protection against exploits? When can we expect it? I would not post this if I was not being directed to the pinned thread on this forum explaining how to exploit the graphical settings.

 

Thank you for your time,

Rain

 

 

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Posted (edited)

There is a game mode (I think its called tournament) which you can only join if you have shadows activated. I'm sure there could be a setting for more ini tweaks for a game mode like this as well. I play with the ini tweaks. Makes my game run acceptable on my laptop (few years old - no gaming laptop). I do notice that sometimes some texture are missing like foliage and the wooden train bridge on Gorodok - not sure which setting causes this or if it's a bug unrelated to the  ini tweaks. But these missing textures seem to be rare/not give a big advantage (except one time where some players thought they could hide in a field - which was a smooth land for me from a few hundred meters away).

 

Edit: There was a time where the fov could be lower than 90 as well. That did give me some fps gains and zoom (better for low resolution 720p since its hard to see with the pixels at range). In cqb it was bad though.

Edited by Nyrak

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1 hour ago, Rainmaker said:

Hello dear Developers,

 

Being involved with your game since the release on Steam and being part of core community, we in our unit have always been wondering will you make Squad cheater/exploit proof in the future. Being approched by some people saying that editing Squad ini files are allowed and better yet encouraged to do for better performance for the price of good graphics was disturbing to say the least. A topic explaining how to ruin your graphical visuals which is also pinned on this forum can be found here on this link:

 

I have tried to manipulate the settings like in the tutorial, and edited the ini files. And its unspeakable of what I have found. The gorgeous game that I have known is absolutelly disguasting and gross looking. The lightning is gross, there are no shadows, grass in the distance does not render, the detail of the gun is awful, the detail of the map reminds me of a game from 90s. Theres just no depth to the visual look of the game. That being said I gained on performance. I also (and this is IMPORTANT) gained advantage (which I could clearly see and feel) over other players. Because there was no shadows and some foilage was missing in the distance, all this combined with my good shooting ability made me easily see the enemy and dominate.

 

Its like being on easy mode.

We have always been wondering why sometimes some people could do certain stuff and shoot us from weird angles, even though we already knew how, now we tried it first hand. And the whole experience is horrible and disapointing.

 

As I am a leader of my unit this sort of stuff is very important to form my decision if I shall invest our efforts, like we did so far, further around your game. I would like to know if this whole ordeal will get adressed and in what way? Will there be some sort of protection against exploits? When can we expect it? I would not post this if I was not being directed to the pinned thread on this forum explaining how to exploit the graphical settings.

 

Thank you for your time,

Rain

 

 

So essentially you're freely admitting that you've edited game files and played online against other for "testing" purposes only of course? And now you're thoroughly appalled that anybody could freely edit the game files and gain not only a performance boost but a clear advantage in sight distance etc. but you're wondering if the developers are going to fix an exploit you've discovered and posted? Am I correct here? This reminds me of people against kiddie porn downloading it so they could see how horrible it is. Because if thats the case I'd like to see you banned across the board and I'll certainly watch for your tag in the server I admin on. 

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In your scenario I am not sure which one of the two characteristics outweighs you. Stupidity or ignorance.

 

I am in no way, shape, form, mentality or mindset a cheater/exploiter/file tweaker. Same goes to all my unit members and we take proud in that.

 

The stuff that I tried to do is pinned on the forum by the official developers of the game. That was the point. Here is the link to it again 

 

 

God have mercy on the forum you will admin on ;) @Zylfrax791

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36 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

In your scenario I am not sure which one of the two characteristics outweighs you. Stupidity or ignorance.

 

I am in no way, shape, form, mentality or mindset a cheater/exploiter/file tweaker. Same goes to all my unit members and we take proud in that.

 

The stuff that I tried to do is pinned on the forum by the official developers of the game. That was the point. Here is the link to it again 

 

 

God have mercy on the forum you will admin on ;) @Zylfrax791

Interesting. Because the original pinned post was about increasing the fps of the game and mentioned nothing about the subjects you brought up and the little experiments you performed.

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I always thought it was good to experiment (and report) in the alpha stage of a game.

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It is known to the dev team, certain things in the ini can give certain advantages. It's not prohibited per say to alter the ini during alpha phases, as optimization can be a little crazy for some, and .ini tweaks help with performance issues during alpha. But it is heavily frowned up to do heavy changes in the ini to remove certain things or lower things to a point where they're near non existent.

I remember a discussion a while ago, where devs were stating .ini will be locked sometime and messing with values will result in the game not launching. My guess this will happen for the Beta or very late Alpha, before beta hits.

Until then, I guess, all we can do is give the obvious cheese lords some cheeky banter, and then give them some 10/10 advice near full release to upgrade their potato's, when they cry about not being able to run Squad without major ini tweaks.

 

3 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Interesting. Because the original pinned post was about increasing the fps of the game and mentioned nothing about the subjects you brought up and the little experiments you performed.

I think you're misreading and blowing things out of the water a little bit. A tiny bit of misconception maybe.





 

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As stated above, the .INI values will be locked in the future so it might be an issue now but it will be fixed when the game actually fleshes out into a more competitive, serious state. That being said, I hope in the future that some features will not be option at all (such as shadows, ground-level foliage, etc.) because low-level settings will always be used to cheese about as often if not more often than by people who actually have low-end computers when it comes to competitive video games. This is part of the reason why War Thunder has basically made playing on low settings as hard if not harder than playing on the highest settings (because bushes are basically rocks and trees are much thicker and bigger on average).

 

I think the devs should really set the bar high when it comes to graphics rather than pander to the lowest possible crowd. I understand that you always want to sell as many copies as possible, but at the same time you really shouldn't devalue the experience of the game during one of the largest hardware change eras in recent computer history (HBM and ridiculously high-capacity GPUs for under $300, new processors hitting the market soon, etc.) because if they do that the graphics of the game will become visually outdated quickly (as rather than future-proofing the game with better, more immersive graphics they will be figuring out ways to balance out the minimum settings) and the UE4 use will be a complete waste. 

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even the simple settings you can do in the game options can be game breaking!

 

SQUAD_01.jpg

 

SQUAD_02.jpg

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Posted (edited)

I found Smooths guide really useful when playing on my laptop and absolutely feel he did it to help the community run the game at decent frames on lower end gear. (not that my laptop was low end, just older 4700HQ and 780m GPU but I wanted 60 fps).

 

Then I realised it gave me an advantage over others visually and I removed the settings, I have played for well over 6 months on tournament settings (shadows medium and view distance high from memory) with everything else off or low with standard files. But then again I need every advantage I can get LOL old eyes.

 

I have several long term Squad mates who used to score really big, all the time. And they have all confirmed they used the INI file changes for the advantage, these were like regular 45-5 plus sort of scores. Most of them don't play in matches now as you usually need tournament settings to play.

It is what it is, personally I wont hack, but stuff like this is more subjective - obviously in any form of competitive environment/game it needs to be equal for all and secure hence the introduction of tournament settings server side as an option for servers.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Shoshin

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Posted (edited)

Then you might as well be able to set a max resolution. A high resolution can be an advantage at long range and not everybody can spend the money on a 4k+ monitor.

Edited by Nyrak

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49 minutes ago, Shoshin said:

I have several long term Squad mates who used to score really big, all the time. And they have all confirmed they used the INI file changes for the advantage, these were like regular 45-5 plus sort of scores. Most of them don't play in matches now as you usually need tournament settings to play.

It is what it is, personally I wont hack, but stuff like this is more subjective - obviously in any form of competitive environment/game it needs to be equal for all and secure hence the introduction of tournament settings server side as an option for servers.

 

I believe they will only allow the usage for the duration of the Alpha so that lower end PCs have the ability to play the game with reasonable FPS since minimum hardware spec recommendations are unreliable.

 

But honestly, if you're using these kind of settings in a team based game while already having decent FPS it's kind of missing the point. Sure you can snipe people attempting to hide in foliage for dat dank KD and bragging rights but don't you feel kind of cheap yourself?

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23 minutes ago, Nyrak said:

Then you might as well be able to set a max resolution. A high resolution can be an advantage at long range and not everybody can spend the money on a 4k+ monitor.


Are you serious right now?

 

Some of those ini tweaks (removing shadows and vegetation etc), allow those players to see stuff that they otherwise would not see in the 'normal' game. When a squad is laying prone in a field, they just see 9 guys laying down in the open. A FOB hidden in a bush is just a radio standing in the middle of nothing. People using shadows to their advantage get spotted straight away because the tweaker does not see shadows. And so on...

I'm pretty sure everyone would consider wall-hacking cheating, cause you are able to see enemies when they should be hidden...

THIS IS EXACTLY THE SAME THING.

The only way to solve this is zero tolerance. ini-tweakers should not be able to connect to multiplayer servers.
 

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There will always be someone that wants to take away from the game, or have an advantage(cheat) Personally I love the look and what they are trying to achieve.  They won't bring in a minimum setting because too many players wouldn't be able to play so I live with it and enjoy my game as much as I can. 

 

My advice is to new guys is presume all vegetation doesn't provide concealment ( if it does its a bonus ). And that only Object that would be rendered at distance, building low terrain walls give concealment. It's been the same for years in nearly all fps, military sims.

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You can also be at a disadvantage without shadows. With shadows on you sometimes see enemy players shadows before you see their player model (corners etc.).

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Frontliner said:

But honestly, if you're using these kind of settings in a team based game while already having decent FPS it's kind of missing the point. Sure you can snipe people attempting to hide in foliage for dat dank KD and bragging rights but don't you feel kind of cheap yourself?

Not at all for 2 reasons, 

 

1. In a competitive match I assume others will use these settings.

2. I seriously am not very good and need all the help I can get! LOL If I was racking up 45-5 scores then I may feel different, but i'm not so it's fine.

 

Re FPS I want to push my system, but not for the highest FPS - I want the best stable lowest FPS I can get to match my monitor, so currently I play at 71fps fixed on all maps, full servers in 2K at 1.25 resolution scale. (This is to do with headaches after long sessions re my eyes, fluctuating FPS really messes me up).

 

As a note I agree the screen resolution and resolution scale max should be set for tournament settings for sure, but these tournament restrictions will be enhanced as the game and community evolves. 

 

Edited by Shoshin

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hopefully upon release shadows and foliage will have a specific value at which it can't be removed due to weak/dated hardware on the user end.

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Its really nice to see you boys carry the light aswell. 

Thank you for your input, I would really like somebody from the official development team to give us more insight into this though.

I am sure nobody can't blame us who bought proper (and expensive) gaming machines to run good graphics and experience the full spectrum of enjoyment Squad has to offer. How crazy it would be if we got to adapt our awesome gaming machines to run bad graphics like exploiters do. Where is the fun in that?

I agree with you guys, shadows and render distances must be a fixed thing for everybody, in the very near future. 

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Posted (edited)

On 1/2/2017 at 7:04 PM, Rainmaker said:

Hello dear Developers,

 

Being involved with your game since the release on Steam and being part of core community, we in our unit have always been wondering will you make Squad cheater/exploit proof in the future. Being approched by some people saying that editing Squad ini files are allowed and better yet encouraged to do for better performance for the price of good graphics was disturbing to say the least. A topic explaining how to ruin your graphical visuals which is also pinned on this forum can be found here on this link:

 

I have tried to manipulate the settings like in the tutorial, and edited the ini files. And its unspeakable of what I have found. The gorgeous game that I have known is absolutelly disguasting and gross looking. The lightning is gross, there are no shadows, grass in the distance does not render, the detail of the gun is awful, the detail of the map reminds me of a game from 90s. Theres just no depth to the visual look of the game. That being said I gained on performance. I also (and this is IMPORTANT) gained advantage (which I could clearly see and feel) over other players. Because there was no shadows and some foilage was missing in the distance, all this combined with my good shooting ability made me easily see the enemy and dominate.

 

Its like being on easy mode.

We have always been wondering why sometimes some people could do certain stuff and shoot us from weird angles, even though we already knew how, now we tried it first hand. And the whole experience is horrible and disapointing.

 

As I am a leader of my unit this sort of stuff is very important to form my decision if I shall invest our efforts, like we did so far, further around your game. I would like to know if this whole ordeal will get adressed and in what way? Will there be some sort of protection against exploits? When can we expect it? I would not post this if I was not being directed to the pinned thread on this forum explaining how to exploit the graphical settings.

 

Thank you for your time,

Rain

 

 

 

May not cover everything, but EAC now does file integrity checks to ensure people are not deleting foliage or other required files. I believe they also implemented .ini checks for certain properties, but I am not sure if that part has been enabled yet or was just talked about. I do know they were talking about it in one of the various discussion forums.

 

This doesn't alleviate the problem with foliage on lower settings being easier to see through, but it is a step in the right direction. I have no doubt that they will continue to move forward with changes that put everyone on an even playing field; regardless of in game settings. 

Edited by DoctorKamikaze

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I've been saying this for a long time now..."Lock all Squad files" it's the right time to do so.

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A general "people are ini tweaking" report is not helpful.

Locking down a setting is easy. We might have missed some that give unfair advantages. If you want to help send me a screenshot comparison between the default low settings and the relevant ini setting changed.

Regarding shadows: currently those are expensive on some gpus. that is why you can turn them off in the menu. We are looking into different shadow implementations for the future. In terms of gameplay tuning shadows off is an advantage in some situations and a disadvantage in others, just as a low FOV is better sometimes but a disadvantage at other times.

 

If the EAC file verification is not working that is a bug and we need to know about this.

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On 1/5/2017 at 8:25 PM, Norby said:

A general "people are ini tweaking" report is not helpful.

Locking down a setting is easy. We might have missed some that give unfair advantages. If you want to help send me a screenshot comparison between the default low settings and the relevant ini setting changed.

Regarding shadows: currently those are expensive on some gpus. that is why you can turn them off in the menu. We are looking into different shadow implementations for the future. In terms of gameplay tuning shadows off is an advantage in some situations and a disadvantage in others, just as a low FOV is better sometimes but a disadvantage at other times.

 

If the EAC file verification is not working that is a bug and we need to know about this.


Hey @Norby
Thank you for your reply. Yes, I do want to help. I did some work today and took some screenshots. It took me some time to completely wipe the changes I did according to the pinned exploit thread.

This is what is possible to do with the ini changes from the thread pinned here on the forum (keep in mind that I did not research the exploit in detail, so there might be a possibility to further downgrade/exploit the graphics to get even more edge on other proper players).


Exploited:
 ziKwXLs.png

Default High/Epic, no AA:
 9eouVmT.png


In these two screenshots you can clearly see, the shallowness and no depth to the graphics, hence why people who do these exploits automaticaly have advantage over others. The grass is not rendering on longer ranges, and no shadows makes it ideal to spot and easily kill targets. Even the steering wheel and gauges and letters in the humvee are gross.

Exploited:
z2De1ud.png

Default High/Epic, no AA:
kmH3DVc.png

Same stuff different angle.

Exploited:
cUFzwam.png

Default High/Epic, no AA:
zv2qxUg.png

 

I tested these settings live on the server, also, I've met, talked and played with people with high-end machines (latest i7's, 980's and 1080's) who likes to do these sort of exploits, because its easy mode, and they would do everything to have advantage over proper players. From my thorough observation, these kind of people do not enjoy the game or immerse themselves in it, they play it for the scoreboard and thats it. In general, they are not team oriented players, but very individualistic in nature of their gameplay, they would abandon their unit to chase their own glory in the blink of an eye and leave a whole team hanging. Naming no names or groups because nothing good can come out of it, I am just putting it out there for the awareness purpose and I am here to help turn this back around. This needs a fix (whatever that means), as soon as possible because it can't be possible that this thing is allowed.

I am prepared to do more screenshots if needed.
Thank you for reply,
Rain

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this is exactly why i dont bother playing anymore till beta or release comes out. hell the exploited screen shots look comparable or worse than prbf2.

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