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PaperbackWriter

So, when do the other factinons get artillery?

33 posts in this topic

The rocket technical, when properly used, is an effective artillery platform.  But no other faction has anything that can do the same thing.  Seems like a pretty serious balance issue to me.

 

 

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eJY9v.jpg
 

You will feel completely different about the rocket technical and its effect on game balance, as soon as player-controlled mortars are in this game. There's no point in balancing the game right now when you know it'll have to be completely rebalanced in the next version anyways.

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1 hour ago, Nightingale said:

eJY9v.jpg
 

You will feel completely different about the rocket technical and its effect on game balance, as soon as player-controlled mortars are in this game. There's no point in balancing the game right now when you know it'll have to be completely rebalanced in the next version anyways.

There will be nothing more fun than completely ruining a superfob with one mortar.

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In any game I play, everyone unanimously says the rocket techies are useless and leaves them at main. They're a cost. You spend manpower and constant resupplying with a logi truck to have those work. It's a huge risk because those trucks are worth tickets. The FOB they're effectively tethered to is even more tickets. It's a wonderful and often devastating tool when used effectively but it's the epitome of fear and resent and being afraid to use/coordinate something in public servers.

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4 minutes ago, Arduras said:

It's a wonderful and often devastating tool when used effectively but it's the epitome of fear and resent and being afraid to use/coordinate something in public servers.

I jumped on a BASE GAMEMODE (Jensen's Range) server where two teams of 15 faced off in a super fob battle. We had the artillery truck and wiped out their fob in waves. But it was so difficult not getting the thing destroyed; it was blown up about every other barrage. So agreed. Very useful when used effectively, but in regular public servers, it's more tickets down the drain more often than not.

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I think you're overestimating it's effectiveness. And if anything insurgents/rebels need a lot more features to make playing them worth while. You're going up against BTRs, CROW humvees, and scopes with aks and comparatively shitty camouflage and equipment.

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Rocket artillery is not so efective..Us and Russian sides are still OP against insurgent and militia factions except cqbs- I mean "Sumari Bala"

Map..

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5 hours ago, alex.sweedensniiperr said:

Man, what is with americans SCREAMING into the microphone

Not sure what you mean. My effects are always louder than my Comms. It helps with immersion and realism. So just like I did in real life, I'm not going to scream but I'm going to try and talk about the gunfire. 

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19 hours ago, Nightingale said:

eJY9v.jpg
 

You will feel completely different about the rocket technical and its effect on game balance, as soon as player-controlled mortars are in this game. There's no point in balancing the game right now when you know it'll have to be completely rebalanced in the next version anyways.

 

That's going to be a real chore.  A proper mortar implementation would require some pretty in-depth technical information to go along with it.  People will have to learn about spotting, bracketing and turns. (And maybe even range stakes.) Then there's the issue of FDC.  It gets complicated fast.  Unless we just want a toy that makes pretty explosions.  But that's not why we're here, is it? 

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36 minutes ago, PaperbackWriter said:

 

That's going to be a real chore.  A proper mortar implementation would require some pretty in-depth technical information to go along with it.  People will have to learn about spotting, bracketing and turns. (And maybe even range stakes.) Then there's the issue of FDC.  It gets complicated fast.  Unless we just want a toy that makes pretty explosions.  But that's not why we're here, is it? 

One of the Squad devs created the mortar system for Project reality (squads predecessor) and another dev (sgtRoss) was a real life mortar man in Afghanistan. So its safe to say they know what theyre doing ;)

m252mortar.jpg  

m1937mortar1.jpg

Edited by Gorzu

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35 minutes ago, PaperbackWriter said:

 

That's going to be a real chore.  A proper mortar implementation would require some pretty in-depth technical information to go along with it.  People will have to learn about spotting, bracketing and turns. (And maybe even range stakes.) Then there's the issue of FDC.  It gets complicated fast.  Unless we just want a toy that makes pretty explosions.  But that's not why we're here, is it? 

 

I guarantee that mortars won't be implemented on such a technically complex level. I don't expect something so low as Arma 3's point and click system, but in the end Squad isn't a milsim.

 

 

7 hours ago, alex.sweedensniiperr said:

Man, what is with americans SCREAMING into the microphone

 

A gross generalization that has nothing to do with this thread... unnecessary :P

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45 minutes ago, Aniallator said:

 

I guarantee that mortars won't be implemented on such a technically complex level. I don't expect something so low as Arma 3's point and click system, but in the end Squad isn't a milsim.

 

 

 

A gross generalization that has nothing to do with this thread... unnecessary :P



i reckon it will be pretty similar to this.. just with implements of a better hud for the range input.
 

 

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7 minutes ago, Bigsmokeee said:



i reckon it will be pretty similar to this.. just with implements of a better hud for the range input.
 

 

 

Yeah, I'd guess something along the lines of PR or even a bit more in-depth. It's also important to remember that like the FOB resupply system, the initial mortar system will be WIP and will likely see some big changes between now and release based on how well it plays with gameplay and how much players like it.

 

I have to say, at this point half of what I look forward to when it comes to new weapons (especially emplacements) is the animations. Like those SPG animations, OMG... not to mention two separate animations for emplacement and vehicle-mounted. Can't wait to see mortar animations.

Edited by Aniallator

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20 hours ago, Robin Sage said:

Really? I have footage that says otherwise. 

I call fake :)

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2 hours ago, suds said:

I call fake :)

There is artillery footage in there dropping right on top of a squad. Also have the unedited longer portion of it where everyone in that clip died. 

Edited by Robin Sage

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On 12/9/2016 at 7:38 PM, PaperbackWriter said:

The rocket technical, when properly used, is an effective artillery platform.  But no other faction has anything that can do the same thing.  Seems like a pretty serious balance issue to me.

 

 

In my experience when a squad uses the rocket technical they don't help to get the win at all. So you are right that there is an imbalanced, the other factions need them too so they can waste manpower as well. lol

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On 10.12.2016 at 1:38 AM, PaperbackWriter said:

The rocket technical, when properly used, is an effective artillery platform.  But no other faction has anything that can do the same thing.  Seems like a pretty serious balance issue to me.

 

 

 

The rocket techie is completly useless in its current form! Would trade 10 rocket techies for one BTR or Crow. Fix the toys that were given to militia/ins before adding artillery to other factions.

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People just need to get used to the idea that the vehicles have a learning curve, that's all. The rocket technical is no different from BTRs or humvees in that regard, only with the technical the curve is steeper.

 

It's not gonna get any easier, boys! I can't wait to see people crashing helicopters everywhere once they're implemented.

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On 11.12.2016 at 0:39 AM, Odin said:

 

We have all seen people killed from the arty trucks. Especially if you follow @karmakut and Squad Ops at all.

i can see why using the truck in a one life event is usefull since killing even one enemy weakens the enemy. But on normal round where people can respawn in 45 sec a weapon who kills 1 (or 2 if lucky) guys just isnt worth it.

 

On 11.12.2016 at 3:03 AM, Robin Sage said:

There is artillery footage in there dropping right on top of a squad. Also have the unedited longer portion of it where everyone in that clip died. 

Ok so you show video from a trailer to prove usefullness of a rocket techie???? That video shows nothing since it is a trailer (probally set up) and it cuts just as the killing rocket hits (so not even sure if that squad got killed)!

 

But ok that video is actually the perfect situation for a rocket techie. A squad moving in the open on flat ground with the techie zeroed in perfectly. But this almost never happens in squad. if there is just a little cover around or the ground is a little uneven the techie will kill noone! Uneven ground means people can lie down and techie will then only kill from direct hits. Next problem is that it take so long to zero in and the rockets have such a long travel time that most of the time enemy squad will be in cover before the effective rounds hits.

 

Honestly a RPG guy firing frag rounds are often a million times more usefull than the expensive reload that can only kill people on flat ground techie.

 

15 minutes ago, MultiSquid said:

People just need to get used to the idea that the vehicles have a learning curve, that's all. The rocket technical is no different from BTRs or humvees in that regard, only with the technical the curve is steeper.

 

It's not gonna get any easier, boys! I can't wait to see people crashing helicopters everywhere once they're implemented.

hahaha learning curve on BTR and crow?! You mean point at stuff and they die. The only thing you need to learn when using BTR and crow is staying back. Rest is way to easy! Those vehicles are even set up so you can easily one man use them (no delay when shifting from driver to gunner).

Edited by Romby

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33 minutes ago, Romby said:

hahaha learning curve on BTR and crow. You mean point at stuff and they die. The only thing you need to learn when using BTR and crow is staying back. Rest is way to easy! Those vehicles are even set up so you can easily one man use them (no delay when shifting from driver to gunner).

 

Most of the people can't keep a vehicle alive for more than 5-10 minutes and come out at least even on tickets if they get destroyed, so yeah, I'd say there is still a lot to learn there. Also, finding the best positions for each map (and each layer), adjusting your approach according to enemy movement and FOB placement, taking out enemy vehicles without getting destroyed yourself, there's already much more depth to the vehicles than the average Squad player can handle, and you want to tell me there's no learning curve? I see people fail with the vehicles in spectacular fashion every game. Sure, you can always  just grab a vehicle and "point at stuff so it dies", but that's not good enough, and definitely won't be good enough once we get to the more destructive weapon systems.

 

I'm sure there will be some kind of transition time when switching to a gunner so you can't just one-man vehicles, I wouldn't worry about that now if I were you.

 

With the rocket technical you need to look beyond the kill potential, it has been stated by the devs that it's more of a suppression tool with its huge and somewhat random spread. If you can keep a squad hunkered down and having to constantly tend to their wounded and bleeding soldiers then you've done your job, for securing the kills you need to cooperate with other squads to move in and clean up after you've kept the enemy suppressed. Easy in theory, hard to execute.

Edited by MultiSquid

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16 minutes ago, MultiSquid said:

 

Most of the people can't keep a vehicle alive for more than 5-10 minutes, so yeah, I'd say there is still a lot to learn there. Also, learning the best positions for each map (and each layer), adjusting your approach according to enemy movement and FOB placement, taking out enemy vehicles without getting destroyed yourself, there's already much more depth to the vehicles than the average Squad player can handle, and you want to tell me there's no learning curve? I see people fail with the vehicles in spectacular fashion every game. Sure, you can always  just grab a vehicle and "point at stuff so it dies", but that's not good enough, and definitely won't be good enough once we get to the more destructive weapon systems.

 

I'm sure there will be some kind of transition time when switching to a gunner so you can't just one-man vehicles, I wouldn't worry about that now if I were you.

Yes you are right. All these things are stuff that a lot of people still need to learn.

 

But comparing the rocket techie with btr and crow just makes me laugh. Techie is only usefull in very speciffic cases (for example enemy moving on flat and open ground and you are already zeroed in). This case happens so seldom that it isnt really worth it having people waiting in vehicles. 9 out of 10 times these 2-3 guys would be a lot more usefull if they just joined normal battle. BTR and Crow are almost alway usefull in some way and since it at the moment only need 1 guy it isnt a big drain on the team resources.

 

Therefore make the techie usefull before adding mortars! And please dont add very usefull artillery to US/Rus and leave the Militia/ins with rocket techie.

Edited by Romby

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