shankly1985

Squad not support 7.1 Audio?

58 posts in this topic

Guys, did you see/hear this already?

 

(From about 10:10)

 

 

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dude just say....HRTF? Oh **** yes baby!!  please Devs...update to this version of UT4 i beg of you

 

sadly the stream flip the audio sources lol...well lets hope the Devs will use the updated engine so 7.1/HRTF fans can both be happy. 

Edited by RaulO4

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In my experience, I guess it's not that much that you have with headsets, when I switched from a 50 bucks stereo headset to a true surround (the Medusa one's) I was really impressed by it. I was able to figured out where gunfire is coming from and this really accurate. And the quality of sound was not that bad as some people mentioned here (comparing with the same price of each stereo and surround for 50 bucks).

But I know, and everybody has to know, a headset will never had that good audio quality and channel separation like a audio system.

Just my 50 cents out of my experience.

One more addition, that experience was with a dedicated sound card. Since I have to use the onboard sound it sounds badly both quality and separation of channels.

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On 10/02/2017 at 1:41 PM, Skul said:

They're like $30, aren't they?      //US$ ?

 

As a workaround, try to go to control panel and turn off sub and center channels:

Well i had to import them from England, cost me about $60-70 aussie, iirc.

Might try that and see what happens. Ta :)

 

On 10/02/2017 at 7:47 PM, grimshadow said:

Belive it is ue4 atm. They are re writing g the entire audio system properly this time, hoping it works. 

My only experience so far with these is with Frostbite(me hard), in BF3 and BF:BC2. I did notice, ages ago when i last played, that Squads possitional audio was really terrible, like ArmA2/3, using the Medusa's - don't recall TeamFortress2 ever being a problem . . .

That said, i hope they(UE4) get it right too!

Edited by LaughingJack

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On 2/11/2017 at 6:08 PM, Jaghammer said:

But I know, and everybody has to know, a headset will never had that good audio quality and channel separation like a audio system.

https://blog.codinghorror.com/3d-positional-audio-and-hrtfs/

 

Pretty much all good players play using headphones. If loudspeakers were better, good players would just use 2.0/4.0/5.1 loudspeakers instead of 2.0/4.0/5.1 headphones. I tried 5.1 loudspeaker systems in video games and I liked 5.1 headset better compared. But again, it's not the matter of liking.

 

Pretty much all games made in last 15 years(BF:BC2/2/3/4, CS:GO, Insurgency, Team Fortress, etc.) weren't designed to be used with loudspeakers because every person has loudspeakers on different distances relatively to their ears. Games were desinged using simple crossfade algorithms(aka we don't care about sound at all). Here's example from CS:GO:

cs_audio_graphic02.png

 

And that's where problems, when players can't tell if sounds are coming from behind or from in front, are coming from.

 

All games should use HRTF functions by default in all games all the time. But again, 4.0/5.1 with HRTF will still be better than stereo:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A3D

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-related_transfer_function

 

Edited by Skul

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On 2/11/2017 at 0:20 PM, RaulO4 said:

well lets hope the Devs will use the updated engine so 7.1/HRTF fans can both be happy. 

You can use HRTF on any 2.0+ systems(2.1/3.0/3.1/4.0/4.1/5.0/5.1/6.0/6.1/7.0/7.1). It's just the matter of laziness of audio engine developers and Squad developers.

I don't know what sound engine they will use but HRTF is just a general name and it will be different to HRTF in CS:GO.

Edited by Skul

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Wtf are you talking??? I have both setups headphones and speakers. I want to use my speakers all the time because it's just amazing. With The games I'm playing, Arma, bf, squad and some racing game's I have no problem to point out where a sound is coming from. The single problem is why I can't use it all the time is my wife is saying "Johnny turn it off it's too loud" :-(

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37 minutes ago, Skul said:

You can use HRTF on any 2.0+ systems(2.1/3.0/3.1/4.0/4.1/5.0/5.1/6.0/6.1/7.0/7.1). It's just the matter of laziness of audio engine developers and Squad developers.

I don't know what sound engine they will use but HRTF is just a general name and it will be different to HRTF in CS:GO.

Actually it is in ue4 ballpark as they are re writting their entire audio system. Go to trellO for more Information. Why would the devs spend countless mo the time and mo ey doing something ue4 is already working on. When they are finished they will update. 

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26 minutes ago, Jaghammer said:

Wtf are you talking???

https://blog.codinghorror.com/3d-positional-audio-and-hrtfs/

Did you read it?

 

I'll quote it for you:

Quote

I've always been fascinated with 3d positional audio through headphones. The nice thing about headphones is that they don't bug your neighbors or your wife-- and they're actually the best way to hear surround sound, too:

Quote

But for some surround sound, particularly 3D positional computer audio, headphones can actually work better than speakers.

The reason for this is that you've only got two ears. The way you tell whether a sound's in front, behind or above you, rather than just to your left or your right, is by processing the complex differences in phase, time delay and frequency balance that're imparted to differently located sounds by nearby objects (like walls), and by the sonic characteristics of your head.

Your pinnae - the outer parts of your ears - strongly influence sound waves that pass through and bounce off them. 3D game audio uses Head Related Transfer Function (HRTF) algorithms to fake the effects of the pinnae, the head and various listening environments, so that injecting the sound straight into the ear canal can produce the impression of real 3D audio sources.

When you've got HRTF-massaged two-channel audio already, for instance when you're playing a game, headphones are obviously the best way to get the sound into your head. There's no way for speakers to do the job as well, because there's no way for them to stop each ear hearing the sound that's intended for the other.

 

And I said good players. What I meant is top 1% competitive players in games like CS:GO, Squad and other games where positional audio matters.

 

26 minutes ago, Jaghammer said:

I have both setups headphones and speakers.

Did you try to play in 4.0 mode using your headset and compare it to 4.0 loudspeaker system? 5.1 in surround headsets is broken(without mods which require you to put additional dynamics inside headphones or change positions of at least 4 dynamics out of 8 in your headphones) as it was explained on the first page.

 

26 minutes ago, Jaghammer said:

 I want to use my speakers all the time because it's just amazing.

That's awesome. But why do you make statements like:

On 2/11/2017 at 6:08 PM, Jaghammer said:

But I know, and everybody has to know, a headset will never had that good audio quality and channel separation like a audio system.

Without providing any proofs/sources. And what you say is just against basic logic of how things work. Headsets actually has better audio quality and channel separation in video games than loudspeaker systems by definition(read article posted above).

 

And it's fine that your loudspeaker system is 'just amazing', but it's a battle of hardware and technologies not a battle of your feelings.

 

 

26 minutes ago, Jaghammer said:

With The games I'm playing, Arma, bf, squad and some racing game's I have no problem to point out where a sound is coming from.

Well, you shouldn't compare it like that. 'I have no problem'. I know players who say 'I have no problem to hear enemies in CS:GO on my $10 made in Chinese Siberia v2'. When in fact they don't hear shit when you play together with them. You have to compare 4.0 loudspeaker system to your Medusa or whatever in 4.0 mode. And you also have to configure both systems properly. And as I see in this thread(and in all others) a lot of people have serious problems configuring 5.1 headsets properly for video games.

 

26 minutes ago, Jaghammer said:

The single problem is why I can't use it all the time is my wife is saying "Johnny turn it off it's too loud" :-(

Well, that's too sad, but check threads I posted and it can be proven scientifically why headphones are better than loudspeakers and it has already been proven on practice that headphones are better than loudspeakers. If loudspeakers were better all tryhards would use loudspeakers instead of headphones, they wouldn't care about their relatives and neighbours at all. I don't know a single tryhard(talking about top 0.01% players in BF/CS series) who would play using 5.1 loudspeaker system to get an advantage. But I know quite a few who play using 5.1 headsets to get an advantage over players with stereo headsets. I mean, in CS 1.6 days they would buy sound cards which supported A3D on hardware level, in BF2 days they would buy Creative cards which supported EAX to hear enemies better and tweaked sound settings to hear enemies better, in BF:BC2 days they would buy external PCI-E 5.1 sound cards and 5.1 headsets to hear enemies better, now it continues in CS:GO, Squad, Insurgency and other games.

 

Never heard of any tryhards buying 5.1 sound card and 5.1 loudspeaker system to get competitive advantage in video games.

Edited by Skul

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Yes I saw a thread where it was suggested to turn off center and subwoofer channels but it sounds worse. At least the lack of bass was bringing me back to 5.1. I don't know about headsets behind 100 bucks of price but the comparse which I can do Medusa and my speakersystem I can tell you my speakers have a huge advantage when it comes to quality.

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Skul is right on this (re 5.1 and the medusa headset etc), and to the point with his posting LOL.

I have gone back to decent quality stereo headset (well Sennheiser PC350's direct into MSI Z97m mATX motherboard), once the final Squad audio is implemented I shall have a listen again!

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15 hours ago, Skul said:

You can use HRTF on any 2.0+ systems(2.1/3.0/3.1/4.0/4.1/5.0/5.1/6.0/6.1/7.0/7.1). It's just the matter of laziness of audio engine developers and Squad developers.

I don't know what sound engine they will use but HRTF is just a general name and it will be different to HRTF in CS:GO.

 

UT engine does not support 7.1/HRFT (unless of course Devs remove the whole audio system and build their own)

 

At least now 7.1/HRFT will be out of the box for Squad devs (if they update to it) or any future devs. meaning we has gamer will start to see a increase of HRFT use in games.

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27 minutes ago, RaulO4 said:

UT engine does not support 7.1/HRFT (unless of course Devs remove the whole audio system and build their own)

I know HRTF isn't used in UE4 atm. I meant that HRTF is just a general name and it can be implemented differently(not only on stereo).

And you can use 7.1 in Squad at the moment. It's just glitched, sounds in side channels are very-very quite for some reason.

 

27 minutes ago, RaulO4 said:

At least now 7.1/HRFT will be out of the box for Squad devs (if they update to it) or any future devs. meaning we has gamer will start to see a increase of HRFT use in games.

If I had a choice(squad doesn't work correctly on 6.0), I would play on 6.0+HRTF, because positions of virtual sound channels completely match positions of physical dynamics in my headset.

 

14 hours ago, grimshadow said:

Why would the devs spend countless mo the time and mo ey doing something ue4 is already working on. When they are finished they will update. 

You know it's not going to be like Squad devs just press update button, right?

 

Well, anyway, I hope @shankly1985 got answer to his questions asked in OP.

Edited by Skul

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I know HRTF isn't used in UE4 atm. I meant that HRTF is just a general name and it can be implemented differently(not only on stereo).

And you can use 7.1 in Squad at the moment. It's just glitched, sounds in side channels are very-very quite for some reason.

 

 

your issue is cause by Unreal engine not supporting 7.1 audio. this is one of the reason why UE team is completely rebuilding the audio engine from the ground up. you can research this so you can understand why you having "very very quite" on the side channels. also UE also does not support Virtual sound so that too has issues.

 

this is why the only solution for devs is to design their own audio from the ground up if they want 7.1 if they using UT engine.

 

  

Quote

ork correctly on 6.0), I would play on 6.0+HRTF, because positions of virtual sound channels completely match positions of physical dynamics in my headset.

 

note HRTF is note design to be use with anything above 2.0 (at least all of the HRFT i know as of yet/and with virtual sound..let me get back to you for True 7.1/6.0) is a style of audio to recreate how the human hear audio in terms of real life. for example if you using HRFT in CT GO and turn on your 7.1/6.0/5.1 you are in fact bring down the quality of HRFT for this game/most. even in Overwatch with Dolby Atom again ask players to turn of their virtual/7.1 software. 

 

of course one of the reason they also ask for you to turn it off is because it may conflict with their Virtual surround system. which they may be creating their own 7.1/5.1 virtual surround systems so adding another on top will/could affect the end result.  

 

Quote

You know it's not going to be like Squad devs just press update button, right?

  

its not towards me but i throw it in at least...yea I know but Audio is very important for games. I hoping the Devs see the value of having 7.1/HRTF Audio that in my view will simple push the audio to amazing levels. hope they devs decide its well worth the time and effort to make the last push for squad before focusing fulling on Optimization/feature locking it.

Edited by RaulO4

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8 hours ago, RaulO4 said:

your issue is cause by Unreal engine not supporting 7.1 audio. this is one of the reason why UE team is completely rebuilding the audio engine from the ground up. you can research this so you can understand why you having "very very quite" on the side channels. also UE also does not support Virtual sound so that too has issues.

 

this is why the only solution for devs is to design their own audio from the ground up if they want 7.1 if they using UT engine.

And I think what devs really need to do is to make 4.0 support(4.0 doesn't work in this game, when you choose 4.0 in windows control panel, game work in stereo mode) using HRTF. This way sounds will be as perfect as they can be in video games.

 

 

8 hours ago, RaulO4 said:

for example if you using HRFT in CT GO and turn on your 7.1/6.0/5.1 you are in fact bring down the quality of HRFT for this game/most. even in Overwatch with Dolby Atom again ask players to turn of their virtual/7.1 software.

Forget about virtual 5.1/7.1. We're talking about true 5.1/7.1 headsets and systems in this thread:

inside.jpg

 

Virtual 5.1/7.1 is a complete joke and just marketing strategic move to charge more for stereo headphones.

 

So far I can pretty safely say that with my modded 5.1. headphones I can distinguish sounds better than other 99.99% players(maybe all of them) in any games(BF/CS/H&G/Insurgency/Squad/etc.). I don't know what you base your decisions in choosing sound systems and settings but I base my decisions on kind of threads about audio systems I've posted above.

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22 minutes ago, Skul said:

And I think what devs really need to do is to make 4.0 support(4.0 doesn't work in this game, when you choose 4.0 in windows control panel, game work in stereo mode) using HRTF. This way sounds will be as perfect as they can be in video games.

 

 

Forget about virtual 5.1/7.1. We're talking about true 5.1/7.1 headsets and systems in this thread:

inside.jpg

 

Virtual 5.1/7.1 is a complete joke and just marketing strategic move to charge more for stereo headphones.

 

So far I can pretty safely say that with my modded 5.1. headphones I can distinguish sounds better than other 99.99% players(maybe all of them) in any games(BF/CS/H&G/Insurgency/Squad/etc.). I don't know what you base your decisions in choosing sound systems and settings but I base my decisions on kind of threads about audio systems I've posted above.

 

Just stop please. You call virtual surround just a marketing strategy but your 40€ true 5.1 are great, yeah right. You're paying so little for each speaker it's a miracle you can even distinguish any sounds. I'm sure the sounds coming exactly from one of speaker's positions are very easy to pin point but your config still needs to play tricks to make it sound like in-between 2 speakers. And that's where they sound bad and are hard to pin point. You sound like our forum friend Sergei, so I'll ask the same of you that I have of him - list all stereo headphones you consider good, have used them and still think your Medusas are better.

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Having used the Roccat 5.1 True they are very good in what they do positional audio cues.. But sadly like above be cause the drivers in each cup are so small the sound quality is quite bad, I didn't realise just how bad till I changed to a mid/high end range of Headphones. "Philips Fidelio X1"

Now I was left in a situation, I really like the "surround" but now using Stereo was at first very tricky to get used to. I tried and tested different software "razer" etc even my Sound cards "SoundBlaster Z" but sadly they all give this horrible Echo/Hallway effect to the audio its like you always playing inside a massive hallway sounds wrong.

So time went on I gotten used to Stereo CSGO I was still kicking arse :D
Sennheiser then announce GSX 1000/1200 with one key selling point that grabbed my attention

Sennheiser Binaural Rendering Engine. The groundbreaking 7.1 Virtual Surround Algorithm was developed with the needs of professional gamers in mind. Experience surround sound on a new level. 

 

Now for this to be GroundBreaking it needs to do what others can not do!! So After months waiting for the release I taken the gamble at £200 its very pricey and probably the only downside for most people.. let me just tell you this!! Hands DOWN the best surround sound most can buy RIGHT now for PC headphone use!! Nothing and I mean that nothing comes close. "From What I have Tested"

Hear is a little Overwatch comparison for this test make sure you set your sound too stereo ONLY this is important.


And if you interested here is my first ever review :D

 

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And I think what devs really need to do is to make 4.0 support(4.0 doesn't work in this game, when you choose 4.0 in windows control panel, game work in stereo mode) using HRTF. This way sounds will be as perfect as they can be in video games.

 

Again you cant use any of those with HRTF because it was design for Two speakers headsets. at least for the HRFT that has been release is always meant to simulate the human Hearing. on 4.0 well i have no clue but maybe with the new audio engine it would be fix so we have to see.

 

Quote
17 hours ago, RaulO4 said:

your issue is cause by Unreal engine not supporting 7.1 audio. this is one of the reason why UE team is completely rebuilding the audio engine from the ground up. you can research this so you can understand why you having "very very quite" on the side channels. also UE also does not support Virtual sound so that too has issues.

 

this is why the only solution for devs is to design their own audio from the ground up if they want 7.1 if they using UT engine.

And I think what devs really need to do is to make 4.0 support(4.0 doesn't work in this game, when you choose 4.0 in windows control panel, game work in stereo mode) using HRTF. This way sounds will be as perfect as they can be in video games.

 

 

17 hours ago, RaulO4 said:

for example if you using HRFT in CT GO and turn on your 7.1/6.0/5.1 you are in fact bring down the quality of HRFT for this game/most. even in Overwatch with Dolby Atom again ask players to turn of their virtual/7.1 software.

Forget about virtual 5.1/7.1. We're talking about true 5.1/7.1 headsets and systems in this thread:

inside.jpg

 

Virtual 5.1/7.1 is a complete joke and just marketing strategic move to charge more for stereo headphones.

 

So far I can pretty safely say that with my modded 5.1. headphones I can distinguish sounds better than other 99.99% players(maybe all of them) in any games(BF/CS/H&G/Insurgency/Squad/etc.). I don't know what you base your decisions in choosing sound systems and settings but I base my decisions on kind of threads about audio systems I've posted above.

 

well you wrong on that front. Virtual 5.1/7.1 is in fact the same/better than "True". the only downside is that you need good quality sound Drivers. also virtual is a marketing to bring down the price because all headsets that "True" is in there marketing is normally around 200 to 300$. i may also had those that also try to have good drivers. the issue is replacing all those drivers and replacing them with one Great drivers is also better for audio. 

 

HRFT for example like Virtual will work better for the user depending on the quality of the driver itself. there is a reason why "Gamers" headsets has been getting alot better in terms of audio the last past few years. mostly because Real Audio company has entered the market with Quality audio headsets for the gamer forcing everyone to drop gamer gimmicks. Now surround Sound is one thing that is useful and unlike the other "Gamer" gimmicks is useful. now why remove true? well again if you have two headsets by logitech and they have 2 options

 

1. $150 G533 true 7.1 headset with 8 plus drivers

or

2. $150 g533 G pro driver headset

 

the G pro driver will not only sound better because the budget is being place for 2 drivers instead of 8 drivers. Since you have a better driver that lend itself to having better audio for music, movies, Virtual, and now even HRFT. so you can start to understand the shift from True to simulate. try this yourself...use Razer surround with cheap earbuds or your 60$ headset...than switch to a 150 plus headset and hear the differences in all sections. The main problem with Virtual is that not ALL Virtual simulation software are the same or same quality. << this and not having quality Drivers will create a sub par surround sound.   

 

Edit: there is another ISSUE has well...well razer got around this...not all ears are the same so sound does not come in the same angle. Razer sound lets the user adjust these sound angles.

 

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On 2/14/2017 at 10:55 AM, banOkay said:

Just stop please. You call virtual surround just a marketing strategy but your 40€ true 5.1 are great, yeah right.

Nah, my are ~$100:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/ROCCAT-Analogue-Premium-Gaming-Headset/dp/B00UHRXTM2/ref=dp_ob_title_ce

 

And when you add raw value of modification(only materials), I'd say their cost is about ~$150-200. I wouldn't personally sell mine for less than $250. So let's say my modded headset cost $200. So what?

 

I also use external sound card from Creative(Sound Blaster X-Fi Tianium). So cost of my sound system is about $250 atm. But it isn't about price. And it never is.

 

On 2/14/2017 at 10:55 AM, banOkay said:

You're paying so little for each speaker it's a miracle you can even distinguish any sounds.

But you know better, because you never used any, right?
And what if I said that I didn't pay anything for them and stole them? So I paid $0 then. You have to stop being a fanboy of a price and read what you buy before you buy it, because it isn't about price. Very often you can buy better product for much less money, when you don't know market and you don't know how things work.

 

On 2/14/2017 at 10:55 AM, banOkay said:

I'm sure the sounds coming exactly from one of speaker's positions are very easy to pin point but your config still needs to play tricks to make it sound like in-between 2 speakers.

Nah, man. You've got no any idea what you're talking about. At least dismantle some headsets and change pin-out on any of them. Then we'll talk. Right now you're talking from a perspective of a fan boy who paid for his headset $200 and think that his headphones are better than anything else on the market just because he paid $200 for this headset.

 

On 2/14/2017 at 10:55 AM, banOkay said:

And that's where they sound bad and are hard to pin point.

Man, you have no clue what you're talking about. You've never used any kind of good proper true 5.1 headsets. You can start claiming something after you actually dismantled and made proper true 5.1 headset or at least played using one. I mean, before I actually bought(or stole, who knows) true 5.1 and managed to modify or at least configure them in a proper way, I wouldn't go to forums and claim anything, because I didn't know enough about the topic and I didn't actually try all systems, so back then I couldn't claim that one system is better than the other, because I've never tried all systems myself. But that's what you're doing lol, you've never tried half of the other systems there are on the market and you still claim that your stereo is better(lol).

 

On 2/14/2017 at 10:55 AM, banOkay said:

so I'll ask the same of you that I have of him - list all stereo headphones you consider good, have used them and still think your Medusas are better.

Not a battle of who can buy more expensive headphones. It's a battle of technologies. I provided like ~5 or whatever articles + bunch of different graphics + logical explanation why one system is better than the other. And you're like:"Nope, my $200 stereo is better because I paid $200 for my stereo". laugh1.gif I mean, is that all you know about audio? That you paid a lot of money for your headset?

And you're telling me that if you paid $200 for your stereo it will be better than any other headphones, kek. Doesn't work like that in this world. You can easily pay less and get better product than other people if you're a smart buyer. That's what I did, I paid much less than you(let's agree that I stole them = paid $0 dollars for my headset) and got much better(efficiency-wise in video games) product than you.

 

You could pay $9999 for your stereo headphones, they would still be worse than proper true 5.1 headset in Squad by definition.

 

In the future I plan to make my own housing for drivers and put 10(2*center, 2*sub, Front L/R, Side L/R, Rear L/R) high-quality 40-50mm drivers used in those $500 Sennheiser or whatever(so basically make my own proper true 7.1 headphones because of lack of proper true 7.1 headsets on the market). BTW, your $500 Sennheiser or any other manufacturers use $2-5 drivers in their headphones from AliExpress or whatever. So 10 of these drivers will cost me less than $50 bucks including shipping. Why would I do that? This mod was just a beginning to know if I'm going in the right direction. And it is.

 

Again, this is battle of technologies, it's not about who can buy more expensive headphones. You say your $200 stereo is better than these 5.1, fine. There can be $800 5.1 or $1000 7.1 proper true headset which will use the exact same dynamics which are used in your precious $200 stereo. What will you say then? "Oh but my stereo is better, because..." What? You can't say "because I have better dynamics inside". Other  $800 5.1 headset will have 8 of those and other $1000 7.1 headset will have 10 of the same dynamics used in your cheap $200 headphones. That's why it isn't about who can buy more expensive headphones but a battle of technologies.

 

You can't compare by price, you can only compare technologies itself aka stereo crossfade algorithms vs virtual surround crossface vs true surround crossfade vs stereo hrtf vs true 5.1 loudspeakers vs etc.

 

Tell us which $200 headset do you use, I will just might order the exact drivers(they will just might cost $2 a piece on AliExpress) you use from AliExpress and make true 7.1 of them, spending less than $50 including shipping.

Or I will just order 5 pieces of your headset, then steal it from the shop(so I pay $0 for them in total including shipping), then make true 7.1 out of 5 pieces. And it will be the best cheapest headset you can ever get.

That's just to explain you that it isn't about price, it's about technology. And stereo just sucks compared to 5.1 in video games which use simplified crossfade algorithms(basically all games nowadays), just by definition.

Edited by Skul

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19 hours ago, RaulO4 said:

also virtual is a marketing to bring down the price because all headsets that "True" is in there marketing is normally around 200 to 300$.

Medusa is like $30, Roccat Kave ~$100. There aren't too many true 5.1 models. Like ~7 of them. Only Razer Tiamat and some other headset is $200+

 

19 hours ago, RaulO4 said:

HRFT for example like Virtual will work better for the user depending on the quality of the driver itself. there is a reason why "Gamers" headsets has been getting alot better in terms of audio the last past few years. mostly because Real Audio company has entered the market with Quality audio headsets for the gamer forcing everyone to drop gamer gimmicks. Now surround Sound is one thing that is useful and unlike the other "Gamer" gimmicks is useful. now why remove true? well again if you have two headsets by logitech and they have 2 options

I don't know any competitive players(which play actual tournaments/LANs) in their right mind who would play using virtual surround.

 

19 hours ago, RaulO4 said:

also virtual is a marketing to bring down the price because all headsets that "True" is in there marketing is normally around 200 to 300$. i may also had those that also try to have good drivers. the issue is replacing all those drivers and replacing them with one Great drivers is also better for audio. 

 

HRFT for example like Virtual will work better for the user depending on the quality of the driver itself. there is a reason why "Gamers" headsets has been getting alot better in terms of audio the last past few years. mostly because Real Audio company has entered the market with Quality audio headsets for the gamer forcing everyone to drop gamer gimmicks. Now surround Sound is one thing that is useful and unlike the other "Gamer" gimmicks is useful. now why remove true? well again if you have two headsets by logitech and they have 2 options

 

1. $150 G533 true 7.1 headset with 8 plus drivers

or

2. $150 g533 G pro driver headset

 

the G pro driver will not only sound better because the budget is being place for 2 drivers instead of 8 drivers. Since you have a better driver that lend itself to having better audio for music, movies, Virtual, and now even HRFT. so you can start to understand the shift from True to simulate. try this yourself...use Razer surround with cheap earbuds or your 60$ headset...than switch to a 150 plus headset and hear the differences in all sections. The main problem with Virtual is that not ALL Virtual simulation software are the same or same quality. << this and not having quality Drivers will create a sub par surround sound.   

 

Edit: there is another ISSUE has well...well razer got around this...not all ears are the same so sound does not come in the same angle. Razer sound lets the user adjust these sound angles

All of these true 7.1  from Logitech and Razer is a joke, because they place their dynamics in random positions and they also use dynamics different in sizes. So they're bad just by definition: bad dynamic placement and random dynamic sizes.

 

Again, don't know any competitive players in their right mind in any games who would use these 7.1 headsets(most of games don't even support 7.1) with different dynamics and random positions.

Edited by Skul

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Wow you assume a lot in these tl;dr responses. I don't even have a headset, I have headphones. I have tried true 5.1 headphones - Zalman way back when BF2 came out. Titanium isn't an external sound card. It's not all about money but when you're paying $100 for that many drivers they obviously won't sound good.. And so many "competitive players" use whatever they get sponsored by, and then use IEMs on LAN, maybe we should start doing that. I am now waiting for the list of stereo headphones you have used to determine if you ever used proper headphones or if you're just a fanboy :D

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18 minutes ago, banOkay said:

I have tried true 5.1 headphones - Zalman way back when BF2 came out.

Oh yeah, that's awesome, considering BF2 doesn't even support 5.1.

 

 

18 minutes ago, banOkay said:

Titanium isn't an external sound card.

lol. I obviously meant PCI-E and not integrated. But nice catch.

 

18 minutes ago, banOkay said:

It's not all about money but when you're paying $100 for that many drivers they obviously won't sound good.

I didn't pay $100 for them. I stole them, told you.

 

18 minutes ago, banOkay said:

I am now waiting for the list of stereo headphones you have used to determine if you ever used proper headphones or if you're just a fanboy :D

HD 630VB

AKG Q701

HD 598

Philips X2/27 Fidelio

PC 360

 

All of them have no chances against properly designed and configured true 5.1 headphones.

 

It doesn't matter how much you pay. One technology is just better than the other, as it was explained above. You keep trolling or whatever you're doing without providing any arguments whatsoever. But keep believing that your expensive stereo can compete with proper 5.1, better for me. There are 1 player out of 99 who plays with true 5.1, anyway. And maybe 1 out of 999 who actually configured it in the right way.

Edited by Skul

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1 minute ago, Skul said:

Oh yeah, that's awesome, considering BF2 doesn't even support 5.1.

 

Of course it does and it always did, it's limited to 5.1 until you unlock Ultra high. Have you tried playing PR?

 

4 minutes ago, Skul said:

All of them have no chances against properly designed and configured true 5.1 headphones.

 

Cool, I guess ears are different. Our arguments are pretty simple - stereo headphones with good driver and a game using proper HRTF are superior because there's no dead space in-between your X speakers, the sound quality is better because one big driver > many small drivers made by some gaming company. I never liked 5.1 because it sounds so bad when a sound isn't coming from exactly where a speaker is. No problem telling where the sound is coming from here. Same as BF2 with ultra-high.

 

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47 minutes ago, Skul said:

Oh yeah, that's awesome, considering BF2 doesn't even support 5.1.

 

 

lol. I obviously meant PCI-E and not integrated. But nice catch.

 

I didn't pay $100 for them. I stole them, told you.

 

HD 630VB

AKG Q701

HD 598

Philips X2/27 Fidelio

PC 360

 

All of them have no chances against properly designed and configured true 5.1 headphones.

 

It doesn't matter how much you pay. One technology is just better than the other, as it was explained above. You keep trolling or whatever you're doing without providing any arguments whatsoever. But keep believing that your expensive stereo can compete with proper 5.1, better for me. There are 1 player out of 99 who plays with true 5.1, anyway. And maybe 1 out of 999 who actually configured it in the right way.


Are you basing this comparison solely on Positional Audio or Sound Quality also?

Because if you say sound Quality AM DONE! 

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Quote

Medusa is like $30, Roccat Kave ~$100. There aren't too many true 5.1 models. Like ~7 of them. Only Razer Tiamat and some other headset is $200+

 

the audio Quality and the Driver Quality of those headsets are below 15$ earbuds. so for them to have "Decent" quality or even ok you need to invest more which means the price of those headsets goes up. even at 200 to 300$ a 80$ is better.

 

Quote

I don't know any competitive players(which play actual tournaments/LANs) in their right mind who would play using virtual surround.

 

dont know what that had to do with what was quoted but its ok

 

No Pro player use 5.1 or 7.1 True headsets as well. they use Quality 2.0 Headsets that can reproduce sound correctly instead of these 5.1/7.1 true or virtual. Also i like to add that pro players are now starting to switch into HRFT. note some teams are and other are not.

 

Quote

All of these true 7.1  from Logitech

 

you completely missed my example.

 

i try again with you. we making a headsets and we have to design a headsets that will fit a 150$ price range.

 

lets say 50$ goes into the headset design, earcups, and so on. that leaves us with 100$ to put into audio drivers.

 

simple math 100/ by 2 = $50 or 100/ by 8 = $12.50 per Audio Driver.

 

By the way Logitech has not made a true 7.1 and Razor with their possible last True 7.1 10 drivers they ever create wont go on..why

well because when Real Audio company came into the market with their Vastly better sound compare to "Real true 5.1/7.1" headsets for 1/4 of the cost. what do you think the market did? the consumer went and bought Hyper x clouds for the budgets buyers, other bought Audio Tech headsets, and the top end bought Senn headsets. why? because every other "Gaming" headsets couldnt compare to non of those i listed with their "High End" 300$ headsets. who will spend 300 when 60$ will get you something completely better in audio and build quality?

 

The best part? HRFT/Virtual surround performances depends directly on the Audio drivers themselves. HRFT on earbuds compare to something even like HyperX is a completely different. which by the way dont use HRFT with those headsets of yours cause 1. they need to be on 2.0 and 2. that headsets simple will suck in terms of Audio Quality. just think how much of the budget went into 8 audio drivers. 

 

proof that razer is true 7.1 https://www.razerzone.com/gaming-audio/razer-tiamat-71 ten drivers in each earcub.

 

Quote

Again, don't know any competitive players in their right mind in any games who would use these 7.1 headsets(most of games don't even support 7.1) with different dynamics and random positions.

 

 

No Pro gamers again dont use true 7.1/5.1 at all in fact. instead they use Quality 2.0 Headsets that can create the most accurate sound (lows,mids, and highs). So again this supports my point. also i like to make clear i am not arguing just incase the typing seems edging or anything. just commuting mate :) 

 

Edit:   

i would like to ask this question again to you

 

if i can follow a player with my eyes close (yes i have tested this for fun) and have my cross hair either on him or near him when i open my eyes with HRFT. what will

 

1. having good true 7.1/5.1 headset

2. than 3D print a proper line up or having a headset that is not out yet

3. than setting it up

 

will do for me on a personal level? how can it improve on something that accurate.

I can already follows almost one to one with a player simple by hearing them move around so i personally don't see what True 5.1 will do for me. i mean the only level above that is having Daredevil vision ingame XD.

 

I also like say that i have that ability with HRFT and also have above and below audio direction which no 5.1/7.1 has. which is why personality prefer HRFT than any 5.1/7.1. even if you are completely right that my issue is because i never set it up right...the best it will do is to match the Accuracy of what i perform with my eye close test. so even if they are = HRFT also provides me with above/below direction plus all i have to do is hit a switch and its all setup correctly for me. all i need is one great pair of headsets/headphones

simple the effort/price to reach the same/lower experiences is not worth my time personally for me.

 

  

Edited by RaulO4

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