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-MG

Netcoding is off ???

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In a game earlyer i shot a guy 3 times in the head and he even had the time to turn around and be like; Oh haii there and kill me. 
Before that i fired a an RPG at a humvee, 1st hit was an explosion, 2nd hit ?....Nothing. Just a blast frm the RPG ???.

Also the amount of trades that happen often ?.

I hope all this will be improved in the future cuz it's really a turn off for a immersive game such as Squad which i realy love. 

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it happens a lot to me on most servers,

however i would not say  that this is a general problem of the game, more a server thing.

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Yes we've talking about this! It seems to be the tick rate most servers are around 15 to 25 for some reason?? The only server that I've seen is our server ZXD #1 with around 35 to 52 tick rate 

 

there's a UE4 update soon that will improve this hopefully 

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Can't say I had this happen to me since like V7.5 or something. Also, if you shoot in the silhouette and not the center of the body part the damage can be drastically lower. Like a person taking 7 hits instead of 2, if you don't shoot "through the bone" of his arm, for example, as it were.

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39 minutes ago, Peerun said:

Can't say I had this happen to me since like V7.5 or something. Also, if you shoot in the silhouette and not the center of the body part the damage can be drastically lower. Like a person taking 7 hits instead of 2, if you don't shoot "through the bone" of his arm, for example, as it were.

I don't think that's true, as far as I've seen if you shoot the very edge of a moving player model then the game sometimes shows the 'blood splash' effect without actually registering a hit. I'm pretty sure there are no separate hitboxes for bones and such. 

Edited by MultiSquid

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Yeah the only visual you have on the enemy is their head you shoot it blood sprays out then they turn around and kill you. Frustrating. Especially when. You sneaky up to them

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17 minutes ago, MultiSquid said:

I don't think that's true, as far as I've seen if you shoot the very edge of a moving player model then the game sometimes shows the 'blood splash' effect without actually registering a hit. I'm pretty sure there are no separate hitboxes for bones and such. 


That's why I said "through the bone" and not through the bone. Damn people are so difficult sometimes. 
Anyway, you definitely do less damage, if you only hit the peripheries.

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8 minutes ago, chaz69 said:

Funny, ive never heard the term "netcode" until bf4.  seems to be the cool new term.

It's a very old term, actually.

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9 hours ago, chaz69 said:

Funny, ive never heard the term "netcode" until bf4.  seems to be the cool new term.

 

Most people who don't do programming or make games wouldn't have any need to know the word, just like they generally wouldn't need to care about words like "multi-threading" or complain about it. Unfortunately most people just know the buzzword and not what it involves, so you have people randomly suggesting multithreading that doesn't make any sense from a programming perspective to add parallelism. 

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Bitching about a term isn't really going to solve the problem off Live ammo not registering at all -_- .
@PsyrusWel you got a point, i don't have too....but i happen to give a **** about it :).  

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10 hours ago, ZXD_Lee said:

Yes we've talking about this! It seems to be the tick rate most servers are around 15 to 25 for some reason?? The only server that I've seen is our server ZXD #1 with around 35 to 52 tick rate 

 

there's a UE4 update soon that will improve this hopefully 


Aaah, how come there are servers with such low data transfer capabillity ?. It makes no sense with a game that has 72 people firing their guns, nades and vehicles :/ . The bullets thing isn't much of an issue, but the RPG rcoket dissapearing still ****s with me. How can such a unit just dissapear after being launched o.O

?.  

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18 minutes ago, -MG said:

Aaah, how come there are servers with such low data transfer capabillity ?. It makes no sense with a game that has 72 people firing their guns, nades and vehicles :/ .

 

A 15-25 tick rate means data updates every 40 to 67 milliseconds. That's not really acceptable in my opinion either, but considering how "slow" squad is (compared to say CS or the old Quake games), it can be seen as justifiable given the scale of the battles happening. Increasing the tick rate means you are both stressing the the CPU more (with the increased IO burden) and increasing your bandwidth costs (sending out updated data more often). So ideally, from a business perspective, you want the lowest tick rate that allows your customers to play without minding "too much".

 

From the consumer's side, we want the highest tick rate we can possibly get, but most of us don't want to pay a monthly subscription fee to servers to support the higher cost that comes with the better hardware and networking environment required. :)  

(Edit: and there is the unfortunate reality that no matter how much you pay, you hit technology walls where the hardware we have right now simply can't do any better at the higher end)

 

18 minutes ago, -MG said:

The bullets thing isn't much of an issue, but the RPG rcoket dissapearing still ****s with me. How can such a unit just dissapear after being launched o.O

 

The RPG does have an arming distance to my knowledge, so if the vehicle was too close, the rocket would have hit it but not detonated because it had not yet reached the minimum arming distance, and thus it would have appeared to have disappeared to you. 

Edited by Psyrus

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4 minutes ago, Psyrus said:

 

A 15-25 tick rate means data updates every 40 to 67 milliseconds. That's not really acceptable in my opinion either, but considering how "slow" squad is (compared to say CS or the old Quake games), it can be seen as justifiable given the scale of the battles happening. Increasing the tick rate means you are both stressing the the CPU more (with the increased IO burden) and increasing your bandwidth costs (sending out updated data more often). So ideally, from a business perspective, you want the lowest tick rate that allows your customers to play without minding "too much".

 

From the consumer's side, we want the highest tick rate we can possibly get, but most of us don't want to pay a monthly subscription fee to servers to support the higher cost that comes with the better hardware and networking environment required. :)  

(Edit: and there is the unfortunate reality that no matter how much you pay, you hit technology walls where the hardware we have right now simply can't do any better at the higher end)

 

 

The RPG does have an arming distance to my knowledge, so if the vehicle was too close, the rocket would have hit it but not detonated because it had not yet reached the minimum arming distance, and thus it would have appeared to have disappeared to you. 


Yeah that makes sense tho', just very frustrating. Especially whenyou know how unforgiving Squad is when it get's to encounters. Hopefully there'll be somehow a improvement of it trough engine uodates even tho if it's in increments. 

I call BS on the RPG,  cuz i was at the same distance as when i fired the 1st round. So i can't find a logical reason why it shouldn't detonate. It was a static humvee aswel lol 

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I have noticed the RPG issue as well, more then one time.

 

Same situation as OP describes. Same range, and stationary target.

First rpg7/m72 LAW shot dissapears, goes right through the vehicle while the second round detonates. I noticed this under V7.

 

I have also noticed (rare) occasions of an RPG7 round sticking to a vehicle when fired at close range, expending all its "fuel" and then detonating 1-2 seconds later doing full damage. Have never observed this using the m72 LAW.

 

I also noticed the "hitreg" generally being worse in V8 compared to V7. Tick rate changes? Lowered message rate to pool from sub systems?

 

Some weapons such as: SVD and other 7.62 rounds have confirmed issues. SVD for example require 2x shots to the head to kill, while any 5.56 to the head will be a one shot one kill.

 

As others have mentioned, the hit reg issues could be 100% caused by server tick rates, same as problems in battlefield 3 before they raised that in BF4.

 

I often notice you need 2 bursts to kill people even if the first burst have "multiple" blood splatter indicating more then one hit connecting. This is very noticeable when you use the PPsh gun for example. It has such a high rate of fire that you can empty half the magazine before people actually die. I have also been in situations were i shot people from behind but they seem to take 0 dmg, then they turn around and "1 shot" you. 

 

I have also noticed odd behaviour using .50 cal BMG / 12.7mm kornet HMGs on infantry FROM CLOSE RANGE <30 meters . Often you need more then one hit to drop people EVEN though in V7 one hit would be an instant kill, maybe it has been changed or also related to netcode/hitreg issues?

 

Generally speaking, I found less situations were hit reg was an issue under V7 compared to V8. Under V7 it was extremely rare for me.

 

With that said, I rather have ~40 more FPS in V8 + hit reg issues then 40 less FPS in V7 and almost no hit reg issues.

Edited by old_Sneakers

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5 hours ago, Psyrus said:

A 15-25 tick rate means data updates every 40 to 67 milliseconds. That's not really acceptable in my opinion either, but considering how "slow" squad is (compared to say CS or the old Quake games), it can be seen as justifiable given the scale of the battles happening. Increasing the tick rate means you are both stressing the the CPU more (with the increased IO burden) and increasing your bandwidth costs (sending out updated data more often). So ideally, from a business perspective, you want the lowest tick rate that allows your customers to play without minding "too much".

 

These low ticks are laughable and not something that should be acceptable at all. Hopefully the game develops further where we could have stable 50 tick servers and reliable hit detection. Nothing makes people rage and mistrust a game more than problems with "netcode".

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I think what is off is not the hitreg itself, but updating the positions of players and vehicles. For example when someone joins or leaves a server you often teleport a few inches, as if the server force-synced everyone. With vehicles it can be even worse - rubberband whilst driving etc.

Edited by Peerun

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13 minutes ago, banOkay said:

 

These low ticks are laughable and not something that should be acceptable at all. Hopefully the game develops further where we could have stable 50 tick servers and reliable hit detection. Nothing makes people rage and mistrust a game more than problems with "netcode".

 

Indeed.

 

BF3 ran on 15hz during its launch and on 64 player servers with close range fighting people were dying behind cover and during trades none stop. I still have nightmares from OP Metro, and I have not touched a BF game since BF3 debacle.

 

With that said, in BF4 the server client can run all the way up to 144hz and from what I heard DICE have basically removed the problem.

 

Squad being a slower paced game with larger scale 144hz is probably not needed to create a coherent feeling to fire fights, but 25 is clearly too low.

 

50hz+ should be minimum.

 

144hz is 6.9ms ~7ms between ticks, add to that a ~35ms ping.

Edited by old_Sneakers

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20 hours ago, ZXD_Lee said:

Yes we've talking about this! It seems to be the tick rate most servers are around 15 to 25 for some reason?? The only server that I've seen is our server ZXD #1 with around 35 to 52 tick rate 

 

there's a UE4 update soon that will improve this hopefully 

Dont think you can go above 50 tickrate right now,especially on full server.

Our server gets tickrate from 35-48 on full server depending on the map.

Yehorivka is WIP and its around 25-30.

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I'd like to know how squad handles on a dedi server ( E5-2637 v5) vs whatever game serving companies use as their mass rentable virtual cpu's.

 

On a dedi box, i would assume its like water over glass.   And the basic rentable from a gameserver is water over concrete.

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WTF is wrong with hitboxes? Are you serious about that? Most times it takes 3 up to 5 hits to get 1 down. they can even withstand between 2 or 3 headshots. This is happening since v8.x. Is that intended? And hits are clearly confirmed by blood spray.

 

Just feels like another Battlefield since v 8.x. 

 

Dont come up with that" shot through the bone" thing. Every one who gets hit by an bullet would get out of their aim or the body would shake on bullet impact. This is bullshit for now!!!

 

i had that happening on servers with a tick rate between 40 and 50!!!

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From my experience during free weekend, I usually drop enemy in one burst (3-5 round) in cqb 2 bullet is enough to kill somebody.

Maybe its just server lag?

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Something I've not really witnessed myself and it's much better than what I experienced on Battlefield. On BF3 and BF4, I'd be round a corner by a good 5ft and still die to bullets.

On something similar, the collision when shooting over walls. I have a guys head in my sights, but the bullets hit the wall. Happened yesterday on 1 of the new maps with the fields in it and Tempest, Village locations on there. There's a wall with the top part missing from it and you can look over it. It shot cleanly into the back of a guys head, 3 times it wouldn't hit. He turned around and started spraying. Eventually he came up to the wall and I managed to shoot his face off, but that annoyed me. I had clear shots.

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You'd have to expect a certain level of netcode optimization to be deferred until the game engine is mature, it's a proper scale and methodology of building a framework in a game.

 

Since the K/D ratio is lower than other fastpaced games, raging and whining can be more common it's just that unless you're getting a serious error of some sort (where you'd have to check a log to see some form of connection error), combined with the fact that the guns don't always shoot completely straight (don't quote me on this, bulletdrop anyone?), just take everything with a grain of salt and if it reoccurs then it's a user-specific issue so unless you're getting more yield to whine, just keep to yourself

 

In your defence, the game might have better net performance in not displaying the ping of all players just as other large mmorpg games don't display em (eg ark, rust).

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