Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
WARti0k0ne -BG-

Is this what is called tactical gameplay?

Recommended Posts

I agree with you WARtiokone and I recognise the same things mentioned. Shooting mechanics along with other mechanics like rally points, fobs, heavy weapon emplacements, flag capture system etc must get a tweak to create a tactical environment. V7 was the step in the right direction I must say, I was very happy about that, slowering the movement speed was one of the greatest updates so far, if you look to create a tactical environment with team/squad oriented gameplay, where staying with the squad matters and your kit selection in squad matters.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When we can go from full sprint to landing perfectly accurate shots with a scope all below 2s there's a problem. In Squad there's almost never a "should I shoot or not?" moment since you'll almost always shoot and get a kill very fast, no thought or setting up required. This is a big contrast to PR for example where shooting is rarely the thing to do right away, unless surprised in CQB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my opinion it would help alot if free aim was introduced and rifles scope in more and more off-center depending on how much of your stamina has been depleted. This would make it way harder to pick up targets after a long run, but still give you the ability to hit your mark if you do aim for your mark.

 

The other thing you could do to prevent these comical shots is to introduce deviation based on exhaustion, but let's be honest, nobody wants that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There was a patch where the ACOG was swaying all over the place, then due to the amount of complaints it was reverted back. You would stand there and it'd be all over the place. When firing it was as if you've got a mini gun and the scope was just ridiculously all over the place.

I got a 68-4 K/D using one myself and luckily it was mostly having a damn good position behind the enemy / situational awareness.

As it is now, I think it's about right. Maybe some sway after running.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Mad Ani said:

There was a patch where the ACOG was swaying all over the place, then due to the amount of complaints it was reverted back.

Yep, but that were constant sway all over the place. Not something that is momentarily after you have moved with certain mode. Also IIRC there weren't even a stance multiplier (were a prone a thing back then?). Now it is on the other side of the spectrum. Personally I would be satisfied if just momentary bigger sway would be introduced to two cases 1) while you move standing 2) after you have sprinted and these are purely for gameplay reasons not realism.

 

I countered these 60-1 marksmans (legit or not doesn't matter since you can pull such figures with the ACOG vs. Irons) after a release the experience were shit. Can't remember how many spawns it took to get a cover and find the location of that one (in this particular case in video clip). Then when your team marksmans are thinking that they are CQB heroes there is none to counter snipe, just like is the case in BF4 in those somewhat sane kit restricted servers, where I had most enjoyable part of the least enjoyable 100hrs I have ever spend for a game. I forgot I must play on well administrated server, yeah sure.

 

Edited by WARti0k0ne -BG-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

gimme a second...

 

You are complaining about DMs with too low sway, but not about hitting a 400m target with iron sights while kneeling, after you climbed a hill?

 

You are also complaining more about the character, not the weapon.

The character handles the gun, its sway, its recoil.

The gun just shoots, like every other M4 with 5,56.

 

The DM character you are playing resembles a fully trained army professional, doing sprint-stop-shots and popshots for breakfast, and you are complaining about it?

 

You aren't playing Private Paula on his first week at the bootcamp.

 

just a hint..

Edited by Metapher

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be fair I think WarTi0K0ne has a point... Sure, the player character should indeed model a well-trained soldier who has good aim and can do sprint-stop-shots. But I cannot imagine it's possible to go from standing up to prone with a rifle in your hands and pull off an accurate shot immediately. There should at least be a split-second delay, perhaps 0.3s before the sway is back to minimum. I also find it strange that you can spin around very fast in the prone stance, as if on a pivot of some sort. IRL you would have to shuffle around when prone, not spin.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@OskarPRYes. these gameplay tweaks have been a bit on sidetrack compared to the time before steam EA launch early EA. Based on what I have followed the progress. Well to be fair, there have been tweaks at the places. 

 

@Metapher Thx for the unfruitfull comment. I'll leave you figuring out by yourself what is the difference with Private Paula and the figure on the game. Here also something for you.

 

Edited by WARti0k0ne -BG-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, OskarPR said:

To be fair I think WarTi0K0ne has a point... Sure, the player character should indeed model a well-trained soldier who has good aim and can do sprint-stop-shots. But I cannot imagine it's possible to go from standing up to prone with a rifle in your hands and pull off an accurate shot immediately. There should at least be a split-second delay, perhaps 0.3s before the sway is back to minimum. I also find it strange that you can spin around very fast in the prone stance, as if on a pivot of some sort. IRL you would have to shuffle around when prone, not spin.

 

the prone/kneel movement is a realy valid point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yep. I were testing something else at the range and noticed the AGOC and this thread did jump to my head. Got a bit irritated so here is for you a full minute and plus worth of strafescoping.

 

Edited by WARti0k0ne -BG-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

looks like a fun game....oh wait, it is!

It will be far less fun if shooting is unpredictable. 

 

I dont mind if there is a penalty when tired, bleeding or just after prone. BUT I should be able to ADS while moving and still expect accurate fire. The only penalty should be the speed which I can achieve this.

Vary speeds in animation timing for ADS, add sway linked to stamina or other effects but dont make it random or frustrating, to do so would be a game killer.

 

Tactical play will still beat hand eye coordination as it should but the most popular FPS games are those which reward response time. If the guy camping in the corner always wins, the game will become very unpopular very quickly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/25/2016 at 3:57 AM, banOkay said:

90% of the clips you see of Squad are incredibly basic: sprint, see enemy, stop, right click, hold shift to focus, left click a few times. That's it, all it takes to get a kill. We've had several threads about shooting mechanics needing a huge overhaul but little has changed since earlier versions. I agree that there's nothing tactical or cool or satisfying about this gameplay, looking at Squad videos it looks exactly like another generic fps.

This, I don't know if its the community or what, but ever since A6ish and on wards, the game has felt drastically a lot more like BF4 in terms of running and gunning. Arma does a decent job of having sway whilst in Close Quarters. 

 

I know this is a QoL improvement, however it's effect on the current gameplay imo is vary apparent, and is killing the immersion for a lot of people, myself included. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, LMR Sahara said:

This, I don't know if its the community or what, but ever since A6ish and on wards, the game has felt drastically a lot more like BF4 in terms of running and gunning. Arma does a decent job of having sway whilst in Close Quarters. 

 

I know this is a QoL improvement, however it's effect on the current gameplay imo is vary apparent, and is killing the immersion for a lot of people, myself included. 

You should like A8 then. "Zomgomghax what changes then??!?!!!?!?"

Well, let's just say Nordics clip clearly wasn't shot in A8 ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Karm said:

You should like A8 then. "Zomgomghax what changes then??!?!!!?!?"

Well, let's just say Nordics clip clearly wasn't shot in A8 ;)

Of course I like A8, I've been playing it for the past few weeks! ;)

 

I'm just talking about the long term haha. I just think that, like parent fears their child loosing their life, this community fears this game going down the CoD route, though highly unlikely nor intended, sometimes, clips like Nordic's give us all a scare :P

Edited by LMR Sahara

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All we need is an exhaustion effect on ADS and a few tweaks here and there.
- Sway added with low stamina
- More sway when moving in ADS(Unless the walk function is made useful, then sway would be minimal depending on exhaustion)
- Aiming deadzone increase

I haven't tried V8 in testing or played Squad much as of recently, The braindeadness of most public games lately has thrown me off a little, But I'm sure things I mentioned will be tweaked in, sometime.

All we need is a fine balance between realism and fun play. 
 

Edited by Dubs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

- Aiming deadzone combined with sway is really bad idea. It makes player loose control more than what deadzone would indicate. == Player not in contol is bad, Player teased (ie sway), but kept in contol goood.

 

In general level (not to topic of this thread) I would also argue that deviation is valid option as a flavour and possible tweak in small extend in some cases. It is even realistic phenomenom that could be called as mechanical inaccuracy and system inaccurary.

 

I also do want to say, that when I opened this topic I were (and still are) only speaking of the inf. weapons (classes) with most magnification and which are basicly a "sniper weapons" like this ACOG and others like Drakunov platforms etc. They should be kept as special middle to long range classes, not some CQB and sniping capable supersoldiers. If you choose to go with high magnification weapon, don't go to CQB stay behind in overwatch and support. Or be that hit and run sniper somewhere edge of the hot zone, it is fun if it is challenging trust me.

 

Propably everyone who is closely following the game and is active in playing knows what to expect from V8 atleast partly, but on the flipside people who are not following and listening ( like me who did a longish brake even in here ) what are whispered in the dark shadows of community are not aware what is the short term plan and that will create these kind of topics and pull confusion. It doesn't help that the forums are mainly used these days as a platform of official announcement in business shcedule and the information what really is going on is scattered to million other places like Reddit, Twitch shows, IRC, Ingame VOIP, Discord (mod/official) etc. etc. Who would known that the sound system is seemingly idle state because there is one outsourced programmer that is building a new system and therefore it would be total waste of time to devs to tweak it in small scale while total overhaul is coming. So in that sense, the Devs communication have a cap and place of improvement. NDA is NDA so I do not (or have not) expect to anyone slur anything out. it is job of the developers, which is a bit funny, since I do not even expect no more that devs are following what is written in forums outside of SW and HW issues.

Edited by WARti0k0ne -BG-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

in all Nordic's shots in that video he has full stamina, is crouched - stationary or moving slowly with ADS and there is a small period of adjustment to precisely aim before he fires. There is no spins to hit, just view of an enemy, aim, fire.

If he is good he should hit each exactly as he has, if he were running about I might feel differently but that video is a good example of what a skilled gamer should expect from a game - even a fully dulled to numbness reality simulator. As soon as the enemy shoots at him effectively he dies, perfect. 

 

Would a real soldier hit slowly moving targets at that range while crouched and ready? No idea, remove all the stress from possible death or that felt in competition and he might do nearly as well, perhaps even better. There is no way that a game should put psychological modifiers on.  Perhaps some stamina impact from firing? Not sure how much a modern rifle hurts.

Edited by suds

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
52 minutes ago, suds said:

in all Nordic's shots in that video he has full stamina, is crouched - stationary or moving slowly with ADS and there is a small period of adjustment to precisely aim before he fires. There is no spins to hit, just view of an enemy, aim, fire. Full blown BS!! & whitewashing! 0:15 to 0:21 (2 kills.) Both strafe scoped. 0:21Sprint, stop, point & shoot 1:22 point & shoot 2:04 Drop to knee while move aim to enemy shoot 2:08 drop prone and instashoot.

If he is good he should hit each exactly as he has, if he were running about I might feel differently but that video is a good example of what a skilled gamer should expect from a game - even a fully dulled to numbness reality simulator. As soon as the enemy shoots at him effectively he dies, perfect.

.. And again this is not attack against *Nordic, but the broken mechanics of the high magnification scoped weapon. Which turns to parody because of roseglasses so many seems to look at it.

Edited by WARti0k0ne -BG-

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×