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Covalent

Plans on thermals for vehicles?

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'Ello.  Question for the devs, and maybe community as perhaps I missed something.

 

Do you plan on putting in thermals, like from Project Reality?  Most vehicles had it, par the technicals/humvees(some variants had it, mainly the remote controlled), and older styled vehicles like the BTRs and such.

 

With the Stryker coming out possibly with the next patch, or after it, a vehicle that most definitely should have thermal vision, will it be implemented?  Or will it just have a stock zoom?  Also I'm hoping the recoil stabilizing works, unlike the BTR where the optic bumps and jiggles around if you fire even one round.

Edited by Covalent

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I'm sure there are plans for this. It would be ridiculous for there not to be thermal optics in future builds. Will the Stryker have them right away? Probably not. Look at how the humvees are currently modeled inside. Everything is a WIP right now. I would expect them when the game is nearing feature completion, maybe a bit earlier. 

 

TLDR: 

Soon? No. 

Eventually? Probably, strongly leaning yes.

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i hope for "Infra-Red" instead. "Thermal" stuff in BF killed gameplay - everyone on the map turns into Santa-Suit blobs.

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20 minutes ago, LaughingJack said:

i hope for "Infra-Red" instead. "Thermal" stuff in BF killed gameplay - everyone on the map turns into Santa-Suit blobs.

 

It was insanely easy to pick out infantry and other vehicles.  But it wasn't always a saving grace, seeing as how there are TOW's, Heavy AT..  I imagine after a good year or so more we'll have something like what we've had in Project Reality.  But I don't think thermals or infrared should NOT be in the game.

 

I'm sure there are plans for this. It would be ridiculous for there not to be thermal optics in future builds. Will the Stryker have them right away? Probably not. Look at how the humvees are currently modeled inside. Everything is a WIP right now. I would expect them when the game is nearing feature completion, maybe a bit earlier. 

 

TLDR: 

Soon? No. 

Eventually? Probably, strongly leaning yes.

 

This is true.   I know the game is WiP, but to have at least some acknowledgement would be nice.  Since I've not seen anything on it.

Edited by Covalent

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Norby told me it's as easy as applying a few filters and it shouldn't take long. It's just a matter of getting around to making them. I'd probably see it happening before V10. 

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4 hours ago, Covalent said:

 

It was insanely easy to pick out infantry and other vehicles.  //yeah quite silly really             

 But it wasn't always a saving grace, seeing as how there are TOW's, Heavy AT..    //oh if only it was that simple all the time

 

Well from my personal experience it was nearly impossible to effectively combat "Thermal" optics/imaging (on anything). It is a ridiculous, over-the-top system that is not needed  in any game because it gives the user an extremely large advantage over any enemy, regardless of how far away or well hidden they are.

Got well-reamed for weeks in BF before i finally unlocked the "thermals", i nearly gave up on the game right there because those that did have Thermals completely owned those who did not have them. Absolutely unfair game mechanic. And once everyone finally had them it degenerated into ranged sniping through smoke clouds - pathetic!

Thermal optics = ye gads no

IR/NightVision = no probs

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10 minutes ago, LaughingJack said:

 

Well from my personal experience it was nearly impossible to effectively combat "Thermal" optics/imaging (on anything). It is a ridiculous, over-the-top system that is not needed  in any game because it gives the user an extremely large advantage over any enemy, regardless of how far away or well hidden they are.

Got well-reamed for weeks in BF before i finally unlocked the "thermals", i nearly gave up on the game right there because those that did have Thermals completely owned those who did not have them. Absolutely unfair game mechanic. And once everyone finally had them it degenerated into ranged sniping through smoke clouds - pathetic!

Thermal optics = ye gads no

IR/NightVision = no probs

 

Totally agree with you 100% sir.

That's one & maybe the main reason i never got hooked with PR.  Really, Thermals in any game is like having someone using Xray hack,doesn't matter where you hide,they gonna find you.

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I disagree with the two above, I thought the thermals on vehicles were a big boon to vehicles. It balanced out how comparatively flimsy they were versus infantry. Infantry should fear a tank, IFV, or close air support vehicle, in my opinion (and that is from someone who plays about 80% inf - SL/Medic, 10% transport/logi and 10% misc). 

 

Giving thermal optics to infantry would be taking it too far imo, but for the heavy classes of vehicles, it's hard to imagine playing PR without them. 

 

There are disadvantages to thermals too, such as vehicles being too trigger happy and wiping out a friendly squad because they saw a hot area duck behind a wall, or a heavy AT standing in front of a oil derrick (hot) and being near impossible to spot while using thermals, whilst they would be easily seen through the regular viewport :)

 

Just my opinion though... it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me either way

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12 hours ago, LaughingJack said:

 

Well from my personal experience it was nearly impossible to effectively combat "Thermal" optics/imaging (on anything). It is a ridiculous, over-the-top system that is not needed  in any game because it gives the user an extremely large advantage over any enemy, regardless of how far away or well hidden they are.

Got well-reamed for weeks in BF before i finally unlocked the "thermals", i nearly gave up on the game right there because those that did have Thermals completely owned those who did not have them. Absolutely unfair game mechanic. And once everyone finally had them it degenerated into ranged sniping through smoke clouds - pathetic!

Thermal optics = ye gads no

IR/NightVision = no probs

Interesting points

 

11 hours ago, Psyrus said:

I disagree with the two above, I thought the thermals on vehicles were a big boon to vehicles. It balanced out how comparatively flimsy they were versus infantry. Infantry should fear a tank, IFV, or close air support vehicle, in my opinion (and that is from someone who plays about 80% inf - SL/Medic, 10% transport/logi and 10% misc). 

I know I fear them with or without thermals as a grunt...don't know if not fearing them is an issue but that fear dissipating faster due to being able to evade them without thermals easier probably does.

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17 hours ago, LaughingJack said:

 

Well from my personal experience it was nearly impossible to effectively combat "Thermal" optics/imaging (on anything). It is a ridiculous, over-the-top system that is not needed  in any game because it gives the user an extremely large advantage over any enemy, regardless of how far away or well hidden they are.

Got well-reamed for weeks in BF before i finally unlocked the "thermals", i nearly gave up on the game right there because those that did have Thermals completely owned those who did not have them. Absolutely unfair game mechanic. And once everyone finally had them it degenerated into ranged sniping through smoke clouds - pathetic!

Thermal optics = ye gads no

IR/NightVision = no probs


I want some of that ganja you're smoking, because that's just over the top bull.  The maps in Squad are insanely small, so yes, thermals or whatever would be way, way too overpowered.

 

But in PR, it was INSANELY easy to TOW a tank or even hit them with a HAT.  I could count on fingers and toes and still be able to count more than enough times where I've blown up a tank, or APC with the HAT kit or TOW.  Hell, even using ATGM's on the wire guided vehicles I could kill them with good positioning.  

The problem right now, is people are RUSHING all around, and there's not collective thought about vehicles being a scary thing.  They're easy to take out, and they're easy to avoid.  

 

Thermals don't mean 360 degrees of vision, people can sneak around hills, people can distract you to get your attention, then another can pop up with a HAT kit somewhere else and pop you in the side.  

Thermals aren't overpowered on vehicles in Project Reality, and they wouldn't be overpowered here in Squad, either, if done right.

Edited by Covalent

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So, were you scared of those vehicles in PR with Thermal Vision?

 

Myself I do not scare anything in these games, I might be exited someway or another in certain situations, but scared no. The keyboard doesn't electrocute me if I happen to make a mistake in this game, I will be also irritated for my mistake while sitting in the respawn queue, but not scared.

Edited by WARti0k0ne -BG-

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14 minutes ago, WARti0k0ne -BG- said:

So, were you scared of those vehicles in PR with Thermal Vision?

 

Myself I do not scare anything in these games, I might be exited someway or another in certain situations, but scared no. The keyboard doesn't electrocute me if I happen to make a mistake in this game, I will be also irritated for my mistake while sitting in the respawn queue, but not scared.

Good contribution there, buddy.

 

Anyway, I don"t see thermals from BF being too relevant, these two animals are just way different, @LaughingJack.

 

I don't see why we wouldn't have some kind of enhanced optics on heavy vehicles in the  future. You could argue that they were more balanced in PR because of the view range limitation, or because some of the tanks and apc's had IR smoke that could block such sights, but I think the devs will find a way to implement them in a meaningful fashion. Of course, the heavy assets would then mostly just snipe, but we'll have ways to deal with them too. Tanks and APC's should be a force to be reckoned with and an invaluable asset to their team, not just some tin can fragmobiles to be disposed of at leisure.

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57 minutes ago, Covalent said:


I want some of that ganja you're smoking, because that's just over the top bull. 

 

so you're calling me a liar . . .

 

57 minutes ago, Covalent said:


 The maps in Squad are insanely small, so yes, thermals or whatever would be way, way too overpowered.

 

 

. . . but you agree with my point.

 

23 minutes ago, MultiSquid said:

Anyway, I don"t see thermals from BF being too relevant, these two animals are just way different, @LaughingJack.

 

 

I certainly hope so :)

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14 hours ago, LaughingJack said:

 

so you're calling me a liar . . .

 

 

. . . but you agree with my point.

 

 

I certainly hope so :)

 

Selective reading or what?  I said in the end that it wouldn't be overpowered in Squad if handled right.  Since the maps that are in Squad right now are relatively small, it'd be idiotically easy to control a whole map.  But when maps expand, and become bigger, it'll be a lot harder.

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Why would they be overpowered?

Ever used one?

 

We aren't talking about top notch Gen 3+ thermals.

 

We are (assumed) talking about soviet/NATO 1990 tubes

 

waermebild.jpg

zoomed in

2028547.jpg

(WBG of a Leopard 2A5 from 2009, distance ~30m)

 

img_28321cs7o.jpg

WBG Marder 1A3 (distance ~200m maybe even closer)

 

450px-Leopard_2a4_EMES_15_thermal_image.

EMES 15 Leopard 2A4  widefield mode

 

Handicaps: Fog, Dust, Rain, Snow, Heat, a smartass infantryman who thought it would be nice to wipe over the Germanium coating

You are going to lose every feeling for spatial vision and distances, without a proper laserrangefinder.

 

Dont think an older thermal would look like this:

military_thermal_scope_04.jpg

 

They suck, are ****ing loud and need to be cooled min. 15min before use.

And don't think to use them in a slighty wet environment, your are nearly blind.

 

Now thinking "hey lets use them in long distance enviroments like Afghanistan" in Squad: Kohat, Sumaari, etc.

Don't think about it.

Why?

 

How do they work:

A cooled Optic is going to recognize the difference in heat between the object and its environment.

 

So Afghanistan....35-40°C in shadow...a 36-40°C body of an insurgent....yeah lots of difference..and this little 20x100m dustcloud of the vehicle driving in front of you? nevermind that one, cuz you aren't going to see anything anyhow.

Edited by Metapher

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On 21.10.2016 at 8:00 PM, Zenrique said:

You guys need to play PR.

 

I have the same thought ... i notice 3 Thermal version in PR Grey, Green and Red, but the red one was very rare :D

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On 10/21/2016 at 9:58 AM, Metapher said:

Why would they be overpowered?

Ever used one?

 

We aren't talking about top notch Gen 3+ thermals.

 

We are (assumed) talking about soviet/NATO 1990 tubes

 

waermebild.jpg

zoomed in

2028547.jpg

(WBG of a Leopard 2A5 from 2009, distance ~30m)

 

img_28321cs7o.jpg

WBG Marder 1A3 (distance ~200m maybe even closer)

 

450px-Leopard_2a4_EMES_15_thermal_image.

EMES 15 Leopard 2A4  widefield mode

 

Handicaps: Fog, Dust, Rain, Snow, Heat, a smartass infantryman who thought it would be nice to wipe over the Germanium coating

You are going to lose every feeling for spatial vision and distances, without a proper laserrangefinder.

 

Dont think an older thermal would look like this:

military_thermal_scope_04.jpg

 

They suck, are ****ing loud and need to be cooled min. 15min before use.

And don't think to use them in a slighty wet environment, your are nearly blind.

 

Now thinking "hey lets use them in long distance enviroments like Afghanistan" in Squad: Kohat, Sumaari, etc.

Don't think about it.

Why?

 

How do they work:

A cooled Optic is going to recognize the difference in heat between the object and its environment.

 

So Afghanistan....35-40°C in shadow...a 36-40°C body of an insurgent....yeah lots of difference..and this little 20x100m dustcloud of the vehicle driving in front of you? nevermind that one, cuz you aren't going to see anything anyhow.

^
Basically what this guy said. Either you want squad to be realistic. Or you want squad to be arcade-like. You gotta choose. We store Thermals and NVG's in bags so they don't get exposed to light. That's how sensitive and ****ed up to use they are. 

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IMO the problem is infinite view range but beside that thermals should be added. 

 

On 10/20/2016 at 4:29 PM, WARti0k0ne -BG- said:

So, were you scared of those vehicles in PR with Thermal Vision?

 

Myself I do not scare anything in these games, I might be exited someway or another in certain situations, but scared no. The keyboard doesn't electrocute me if I happen to make a mistake in this game, I will be also irritated for my mistake while sitting in the respawn queue, but not scared.

So manly. Yea and when you just spent 20 minutes hunting a tank with a HAT that has a single shot you'll be pretty damn afraid of dying. 

Edited by Fir3w411

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I already hate the new humv as I cant do anything about it. For some reason the BTR never bothered me. Maybe because they never live long.

 

Other vision modes wouldnt add much to the game. If they are balanced nicely they wont harm it either. I think it would be a waste of dev resources really.

 

Better to spend time on cupholders, there are never enough cupholders.

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1 hour ago, suds said:

I already hate the new humv as I cant do anything about it. For some reason the BTR never bothered me. Maybe because they never live long.

 

Other vision modes wouldnt add much to the game. If they are balanced nicely they wont harm it either. I think it would be a waste of dev resources really.

 

Better to spend time on cupholders, there are never enough cupholders.

"You can't do anything about it" because you're using the wrong tools. You have to work together and use teamwork/AT to take them out. This isn't battlefield where everyone is a one man army, here you play your role.

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On 21/10/2016 at 11:01 PM, Covalent said:

 

Selective reading or what?  I said in the end that it wouldn't be overpowered in Squad if handled right.  Since the maps that are in Squad right now are relatively small, it'd be idiotically easy to control a whole map.  But when maps expand, and become bigger, it'll be a lot harder.

 

not neccisarily, just means engagements from greater distances!

PS: Covalent. please dont call me out as a liar for a statement i have made that you have absoultely no knowledge about, ie: My BF gaming experiences.

 

after coming back to this thread i can see now that "Thermals"  you guys are all talking about look the same as "Light Enhancment(n-IR amp.)" that i have used in other games, commonly refered to as "Night Vision" (NVG's), and NOT the "BF" all-seeing-rainbow-santa-suit-thermals  that i was initially talking about (and fearing was the OP's intent) - i assume this from the posted screenies.

there may have been some misunderstanding as there was no example in the OP as reference and the title is misleading and lacks clarity considering this.

 

i still maintain that  IR-LightAmps(NVG) are OK, all-seeing "Thermal" vision is not.

 

@Metapher: ta for the screenies - adds some clarity. what you've posted is what most (generalising here) gamers would consider to be NightVision and not "Thermal Vision" a'la BF - although the last one is quite high-res. and looks distinctly "Thermal Vision" rather than Light Enhancement (ie: no light source).

 

FLIR NV vs Thermal

night vision (reflected light) versus thermal imaging (elecromagnetic radiation)

Night Vision(NVG) uses a CCD to image near-IR for Light level Enhancment and will not work during daylight(overexposure).

Thermal Vision uses a dedicated IR sensor (not imager) to sense only IR, very acurately and over a very wide spectrum and can work in daylight, but cannot see through glass(?).

 

Edited by LaughingJack

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