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Fourkillmaster

Render Full Distant Foliage Through Scope

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As it stands now using Iron Sights against an Optic wielding player is pretty-much impossible, my proposal is that Full distant foliage is rendered on whatever an optic users scope can see. This will help give players sneaking around in grass and behind bushes a little more cover as the optic user will have to reallocate his target before engaging effectively.

 

Now I'm not tech savvy and I don't understand the performance or requirements to have this feature work in-game but I think it would definitely help the meta game causing engagements to last longer as-well as promote more flanking and team-play. As it stands now if you look at any leader-board after a match players with optics have at-least 10-25 kills while Iron sights wielding player have 1-10. Now this isn't always the case but I've noticed it enough for it to warrant my attention.

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While I don't like the current way of rendering foliage at distance (being able to see people better at distance than in close range makes no sense whatsoever), I disagree with the general "scopes are way too good" sentiment. The foliage renders the same way for the optics and iron sights users, so if he can see you unobstructed, the same goes for you seeing him, even if one of the players has a magnification.

Edited by MultiSquid

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FWIW I spent 9 months in basic training for our defence force and I never got to fire a scoped weapon or a handgun.

 

It was only after the basic training that I got  trained as a sniper, I got to shoot a scoped weapon. So what I'm saying is that scoped weapons and handguns are not readily available for grunts at least where I live.

Edited by DeckGunner

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23 hours ago, Devastation said:

All weapons should have a scope option, and every class should have a secondary backup handgun !

This is simply not how professional armies are equipped, nor their Militia/Insurgent rivals.

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On September 21, 2016 at 8:46 PM, Devastation said:

All weapons should have a scope option, and every class should have a secondary backup handgun !

 

I have to say I agree with this statement. I know it's not how it is IRL, but it's not real life, it's a ****ing game... it's time to balance this shit.

 

EDIT: I didn't realize I can't curse on the forums..... **** 

 

EDIT2: so I guess I just can't say ****. That's ****ing stupid

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22 hours ago, IWI-GALIL5.56FA said:

 

I have to say I agree with this statement. I know it's not how it is IRL, but it's not real life, it's a ****ing game... it's time to balance this shit.

 

EDIT: I didn't realize I can't curse on the forums..... **** 

 

EDIT2: so I guess I just can't say ****. That's ****ing stupid

****ING ****ING ****. So bad.

edit:

But I do agree with the sidearm thing. Not 100% on the optics, but I do think it might be a good idea to try out just to test how it affects balance. Increase the damage on the DMRs while you're at it and that will slow gameplay right down to where it should be.

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22 hours ago, IWI-GALIL5.56FA said:

 

I have to say I agree with this statement. I know it's not how it is IRL, but it's not real life, it's a ****ing game... it's time to balance this shit.

 

EDIT: I didn't realize I can't curse on the forums..... **** 

 

EDIT2: so I guess I just can't say ****. That's ****ing stupid

This is a part of the forum rules:

 

Spoiler

§3 Swearing

While we will not strictly moderate every little swear that occurs, please try to avoid excessive bad language. The moderation reserves the right to remove rants and unsuitable content at any time.

 

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11 hours ago, IWI-GALIL5.56FA said:

 

I know it's not how it is IRL, but it's not real life, it's a ****ing game... it's time to balance this shit.

Come back when you got something that at least looks like some sort of argument.

"iT'z juhZt a GamEh!" is no, nor was it ever, an argument - it is a catchphrase without any value or meaning.

With this stupid phrase, you can render any  debate completely irrelevant.

 

Just a game.

Just a movie.

Just a book.

Just a car.

Just a human being.

 

It is nonsense and leads nowhere.

On top it is the tool of those who have nothing to say, but wish to speak.

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@IWI-GALIL5.56FA
enough. I had a look at your latest posts. This attitude is not welcomed here.
Take a break from the forum over the weekend. Use it to reflect on your language and attitude.

 

remider:

http://forums.joinsquad.com/announcement/11-forum-rules/

Spoiler

 

§1 Show Respect

This community can only work if we all respect each other. To that end, it is imperative that any time you engage with another user, either directly or indirectly, you show them respect with the content of your post. In particular refrain from flaming, insulting, abusing, taunting, racism, and other similar types of actions towards other forum users.

§3 Swearing

While we will not strictly moderate every little swear that occurs, please try to avoid excessive bad language. The moderation reserves the right to remove rants and unsuitable content at any time.

 

 

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On 9/22/2016 at 4:42 AM, DeckGunner said:

FWIW I spent 9 months in basic training for our defence force and I never got to fire a scoped weapon or a handgun.

 

It was only after the basic training that I got  trained as a sniper, I got to shoot a scoped weapon. So what I'm saying is that scoped weapons and handguns are not readily available for grunts at least where I live.

 

What military? You said defense force, so I'm assuming Finland? The Finnish military's deployment wing (the Jaegers) are equipped with ACOGs on their Rk95s. In the US Army, every soldier has either an ACOG or an Aimpoint, and even in Crimea we saw that Russia's main deployment troops have access to a wide variety of optics. Modern militaries have optics for their fighting forces, but not for their reserve forces. Just worth mentioning. 

 

On 9/22/2016 at 9:58 PM, IWI-GALIL5.56FA said:

 

I have to say I agree with this statement. I know it's not how it is IRL, but it's not real life, it's a ****ing game... it's time to balance this shit.

 

EDIT: I didn't realize I can't curse on the forums..... **** 

 

EDIT2: so I guess I just can't say ****. That's ****ing stupid

 

Except that's totally how it is in real life. Just because it's a game doesn't mean accuracy should be sacrificed. 

 

On 9/23/2016 at 2:01 AM, koschilein said:

This is a part of the forum rules:

 

  Hide contents

§3 Swearing

While we will not strictly moderate every little swear that occurs, please try to avoid excessive bad language. The moderation reserves the right to remove rants and unsuitable content at any time.

 

 

Well **** shit. :P

 

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3 hours ago, VarenykySupreme said:

Except that's totally how it is in real life. Just because it's a game doesn't mean accuracy should be sacrificed. 

 

Maybe, but the Dev's have made it clear that game play will trump realism in most situations... 

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1 hour ago, IWI-GALIL5.56FA said:

 

Maybe, but the Dev's have made it clear that game play will trump realism in most situations... 

Which is a completely relative statement and could mean anything.

The "muh don't make dis like Arma/it'z juhsd a [email protected]!" faction in this forum usually loves to use this or similar phrases to shoot down every suggestion or complaint that aims in any way towards a more authentic gameplay.

Also, realism does not have to contradict gameplay automatically, it always depends what you're talking about.

 

But this is just another thing certain people here can't get in their heads, so they rather generalize and argument with nonsense-catchphrases instead of reason.

Edited by Lethargo

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32 minutes ago, Lethargo said:

Which is a completely relative statement and could mean anything.

The "muh don't make dis like Arma/it'z juhsd a [email protected]!" faction in this forum usually loves to use this or similar phrases to shoot down every suggestion or complaint that aims in any way towards a more authentic gameplay.

Also, realism does not have to contradict gameplay automatically, it always depends what you're talking about.

 

But this is just another thing certain people here can't get in their heads, so they rather generalize and argument with nonsense-catchphrases instead of reason.

 

Ok man, I'm sorry.

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1 hour ago, IWI-GALIL5.56FA said:

 

Ok man, I'm sorry.

Might be a misunderstanding.

I didn't address you directly, I was speaking more... generally.

However, considering your earlier outburst including instant personal attacks and using a completely nonsensical argument like "just a game" (whatever that means!?), you sure fit into that category as well, but again: I wasn't addressing you directly, my wording was just unclear I assume. My bad.

 

To clarify my point - which may or may not be a little OT:

It is just really annoying and counter-productive for the games development to see so many discussions being sabotaged by people without any sort of real argument.

Usually, these people are on the "gamey" side of the fence, and seem to be deadly afraid of any changes that lean more towards authenticity and realism, while the sole argument always seem to be "this is supposed to be fun!" or "gameplay is more important!"

 

But... what is fun and what is gameplay? Ask 10 people, receive 11 opinions.

Both terms are absolutely subjective, so using them as an argument - especially without any further elaboration - is just nonsense, or simply abuse of these terms to further pursue some hidden agenda instead of simply saying "Nah I like it arcade/fast/easy" .

They know "arcade" won't fly much here, it is known the game won't be a mil-sim, but it sure won't be another Battlefield-like game, so they gotta cover it up with "muh gameplay/muh fun!" , acting as if this is automatically contradictory to authenticity and/or realism, which is simply not the case.

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no offence Lethargo and not trying to be argumentative and not defending anyone,

 

but what is authenticity and what is realism ? ask the same 10 people and get another 10 different answers.

 

 

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Revealing back to the initial idea of the post.
I do get the issue. You lay down around grass foliage, you basically see nothing except grass (in most cases and situations). While at the same time it becomes of course a bit easier for a magnified scope user to hit you, while perhaps at the distance he is shooting from, the foliage is just not rendered. Anyhow, vice versa, when you get towards CQ situations, the superior factor of the scope vanishes pretty quickly. Then people start requesting double purpose sights with magnification and a red dot on top, and then while we are at it, also add flame throwers and triple 40 mike mike tubes and a katana.

I find it a bit hard to argue between desires, hopes and dreams and how it could technically be versatile to implement the obscuring effect of the foliage when laying down, or rendering it from a distance.
Perhaps a bit more rough layers of foliage on the distance that don't cost too much of performance and still help an additional level of hiding in distance (?). 

 

A game, even a military simulator, can only use a parts of the basic of how it works in real life - orientate itself towards those perhaps. I think highly of this game, especially if you are in a good team with good squads. It simply does not matter what weapon you are using - a well organized insurgent team with mostly iron sights will overrun any regular forces fraction's team that has weaker organizations and are all equipped with red dots and magnified scopes. 

 

I guess for this I also need to say, that the scopes should give you some sort of an advantage in some situations. It enforces everyone to use tactical approaches as good as they can or can imagine - to circumvent being pinned down by a single marksman or to avoid getting spotted and fragged from the distance. To find ways to push in to enemy positions or to defend positions by using the best means of the equipment you have. Isn't that the fun of it all and why most of us play this game? Or at least that's what I thought. 

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5 minutes ago, Scum said:

.... Anyhow, vice versa, when you get towards CQ situations, the superior factor of the scope vanishes pretty quickly. Then people start requesting double purpose sights with magnification and a red dot on top, and then while we are at it, also add flame throwers and triple 40 mike mike tubes and a katana....

You do know that backup sights are planned right? They even have them in PR.

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3 hours ago, koschilein said:

You do know that backup sights are planned right? They even have them in PR.

 

Ok. Forget that part of my post ;)

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10 hours ago, LaughingJack said:

no offence Lethargo and not trying to be argumentative and not defending anyone,

 

but what is authenticity and what is realism ? ask the same 10 people and get another 10 different answers.

 

 

Oh don't worry, I see your point, but I think there are indeed differences.

While one can argue about the exact depiction/implementation of certain realism aspects (ballistics, gear authenticity, medical system, ...) there are clear facts about these things. Ballistics for example. We know how it works, there's no room for interpretation or "opinions", if you see my point?

However, one could argue all day long about what exactly "fun" means.

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On 30/09/2016 at 0:31 AM, Lethargo said:

Oh don't worry, I see your point, but I think there are indeed differences.

While one can argue about the exact depiction/implementation of certain realism aspects (ballistics, gear authenticity, medical system, ...) there are clear facts about these things. Ballistics for example. We know how it works, there's no room for interpretation or "opinions", if you see my point?

However, one could argue all day long about what exactly "fun" means.

indeed.

Fun = Enjoyment, which is entirely subjective.

 

On 30/09/2016 at 0:31 AM, Lethargo said:

... there's no room for interpretation or "opinions",

 i see your point and Opinion is very subjective, however i would say that Interpretation (of the Real) would always be Selective(Adapted?) to fit within the context of the game and capabilities of the engine (but maybe that's what you mean).

 

I guess the problem lies with finding something most players will enjoy and not falling into the trap of blindly apeing reality to create so-called immersion. There are numerous "features" of this engine that are totally non-realistic and do not add to immersion - but of course that does not mean you cannot be immersed in the game, as well all know the immersion is also subjective.

JO is a good example: dated graphics, "interseting" physics, complete lack of "systems" (bleed, logi, rank, etc.) - but the "game-play" was brilliant and that made for great immersion into the game.

 

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