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r3volution

Allow grunts to place map markers with SL permission

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After quite a few matches this weekend playing as Squad Leader, I've realised a lot of the SL's time is chewed up by attempting to get grid refs for spotted targets and enemy positions. I think I've come up with a possible solution to make this a bit easier if it's possible.

 

Allow infantry (non-SL) to place map markers in the same way the SL can, but these are only visible for members of the same squad and shaded differently (enemy = orange, general - yellow or light green). For any map marker placed by a squad member, the SL of that squad could choose to click on that map marker to 'approve it' in the same way a vehicle is approved remotely by the SL. Squad leader can also delete these markers by the same menu as approve.

 

This allows the squad to use markers for themselves without general map clutter, but also allows the squad leader to selectively choose map markers to show to the whole team.

 

TLDR : Allow grunts to place different coloured map markers visible only to their squad. SL's can 'approve' these like vehicles so they appear to the whole team or delete them.

 

Any thoughts?

Edited by r3volution

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I like this concept, but OWI would need to have a mute system in place before they implement this. SLs would need a way to stop trolls from placing random markers, confusing the squad.

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Good point on the trolling issue. I've edited the original post to include the ability to delete markers as SL. And otherwise if someone is trolling the SL always has ability to kick them from squad.

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i do think is part of the SL role to understand which info and intel from his own squad are important and crucial and which info (even if requested) need no marker. The idea sound nice but i still think a SL is a unique role, and need to accomplish unique duties with unique tools. Why not a new role (don t wanna go of topic here... but...) to help out the SL with this things, transform one of the standard rifleman into a Radio Operator, which can mark on the map.

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I personally like the squad lead handling the map marks alone. I can see if it takes people out of the game a bit if they're in the middle of an epic firefight and checking the map. However, to me, that's part of the fun of squad lead maintaining that awareness and marking targets of interest. It'd be more efficient if everyone else could put approvable marks, but like Starbricks, I like the uniqueness of SL in this department.

 

That being said, I'd be cool with this when fireteams are implemented, the SL could approve fireteam lead's marks, or give them permission to make marks at all.

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While I love having a unique role for the SL, I view it as much more than sitting there working out the map coordinates for contacts as soon as they're called in by your squad. My suggestion still allows for the squad leader to do it all themselves if they want, but provides a stronger backbone for communications and objective marking within the squad as well.

 

Definitely looking forward to seeing what the Fireteam leader role looks like when they introduce it though.

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how about this:

 

Allow a marker to be placed in 3D space by any player which only lasts a few seconds.

Eg

I am aiming at a building and say in chat "there is a sniper in that building to the west" I press my *mark  key and a marker appears in my squads view if they are able to see the mark.

 

OR

 

"You go that way [*mark] I'll do a 360 off the roof onto that wall behind the compound"

 

OR 

 

"You heal that guy [*mark] I'll get the other one"

 

OR 

 

"suppress that [*mark] alley while I bunnyhop across it"

 

This allows a quick reference without having the ability to point. The mark could be combined with an animation in future which would look really cool and help a player who was looking at the player but did not have the *mark in view.

 

The mark activation could be linked to the voice chat key up indicator so if people spammed them they could be suitable punished.

Limit markers per time + spam cooldown

 

note: bunnyhopping and 360° jumps are optional and should only be performed by experienced persons at their own risk

Edited by suds
safety warnings

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4 hours ago, suds said:

how about this:

 

Allow a marker to be placed in 3D space by any player which only lasts a few seconds.

Eg

I am aiming at a building and say in chat "there is a sniper in that building to the west" I press my *mark  key and a marker appears in my squads view if they are able to see the mark.

"Enemy sniper, (north east south west, up left right down) in the building (short describtion)"

 

OR

 

"You go that way [*mark] I'll do a 360 off the roof onto that wall behind the compound"

"You go (north west south east, up left right down) along that (building fence wall hedge ridge), i go....."

OR 

 

"You heal that guy [*mark] I'll get the other one"

 

"You heal that  guy (describe the location)"

 

OR 

 

"suppress that [*mark] alley while I bunnyhop across it"

"Suppress the alley (north west south east, up left right down) from (a specific unique location)

 

 

This allows a quick reference without having the ability to point. The mark could be combined with an animation in future which would look really cool and help a player who was looking at the player but did not have the *mark in view.

 

The mark activation could be linked to the voice chat key up indicator so if people spammed them they could be suitable punished.

Limit markers per time + spam cooldown

 

note: bunnyhopping and 360° jumps are optional and should only be performed by experienced persons at their own risk

 

Efficient communication is the key (and the skill in being good at this game). Surely its the squadleaders task to tell someone where he goes and what should be suppressed. The squadmembers task is to do is job as good and efficient as possible in order to execute the plan from the squadleader, also giving VITAL information about his situation (means that no one cares that" there is an enemy you cant shoot but you maybe saw him one time last time you know maybe behind a bush or something and you tried" ... you get what im saying here). The squadleaders task is to coordinate his squad and relay vital information for his team, and approximate location of enemies is enough for the other squadleaders to guess enemy movement and strategy.

For the other squadmembers its enough if you tell them you got incoming enemy fire from west your location (if the squadleader thinks its important to tell other squadleaders, its his choice, not yours, the squadmembers task is to deal with the enemy, which is not the squadleaders task, because he is busy in planning and communicating).

 

Long story short, squadleader should be the only one able to mark anything on the map.

 

PS.: Where is the like button gone? :(

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my post was about local coms really, SL doesnt need to know I want bob to suppress the windows of a specific building to the west.

 

Not sure why you quoted me tbh :)

 

Edited by suds

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54 minutes ago, suds said:

my post was about local coms really, SL doesnt need to know I want bob to suppress the windows of a specific building to the west.

 

Not sure why you quoted me tbh :)

 

Because you gave reasons for the implementation of said feature, and i wanted to say that i think those reason dont need any feature, but better communication.

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I think communication is important within the squad but using vocal comms is not the only way to communicate, visual icons on the map are ALSO a means of communicating.

 

Honestly I don't view one as a substitute for the other, I just view them as being both useful tools to ensure that your squad and your team get the information they need to fight effectively.

 

I really do keep coming back to the idea of the squad being able to use markers as much or as little as they want, and the squad leader being able to approve for team view, or delete them. Such a system is purely optional and squad leaders could tell people to use it or not depending on preference. But I feel it could be pretty useful as a supplement to verbal comms which can get difficult in the heat of battle.

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if they only last a few seconds, are only visible to squad and nearby plays, and have some cooldown to prevent spam. 

I can only see it as a good thing until we can get full gesture interaction

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Yeah if squad markers had a 20 second fade time and a 10 second cooldown to place that could work pretty well.

 

Also what's this full gesture interaction you speak of suds?

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If anything allow the scout/marksman type class the ability to mark so only him or the SL. Or when fireteams are implemented, only the FTL and SL can place markers. Exciting times, the future looks bright!

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future will be VR with the ability to control the players arms at the very least, this would allow us to point at things in game so others could see it.

 

Further in the future we might even be able to give each other the finger or give the full military gestures.

 

This is the official international gesture diagram

military_gestures_by_niboswald.jpg

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future will be VR with the ability to control the players arms at the very least, this would allow us to point at things in game so others could see it.

 

Further in the future we might even be able to give each other the finger or give the full military gestures.

 

This is the official international gesture diagram

military_gestures_by_niboswald.jpg


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That's what the radio is for

When they implement fire teams it would be cool to be able to pick a ftl and give hime ability to mark on the map. it would be sweet to give hime the ability to drop rallies instead of the sl who can drop a fob. 

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I guess you didnt understand Grim, and the image is in response to a question, not part of the idea.

 

To be clear, this would be in addition to voice chat in 99% of situations. Right now you can talk to people near you in real life, they can see from your body language and gestures that you use automatically what you are talking about. In any game this is a long way off, hence the discussion on "future". To augment the already very satisfying local voice and squad coms, some small abilities to indicate points in space would be a simple and very useful addition. Until we can point at things...

 

understand, recognise, respect, respond. I've just invented this as a description of so many users of forums, lets call it URRR.

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By allowing anyone in the squad to place markers, you allow basically everyone to pinpoint exactly where everything is and there is zero coordination in that. 

 

Nothing is wrong with calling out the grid and/or bearing of enemies. 

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I don't wanna be that guy but this just sounds casual as hell. There's nothing wrong with calling out coordinates and directions. Although I still see ppl who don't know their directions which is just sad....This game is in its infancy. As ppl learn and get more hours they'll learn that communicating is the only way to win or atleast not get curbstomped 300 tickets to zero. Anyway, having markers for everyone in the squad is a horrible idea. It makes the game so much easier and gets rid of teamwork on relying on your SL. Yes like you said all the SL would have to do is accept the squad members marking but couldn't the squad member just as easily call out coords and let the SL do his job? You don't need a new feature to do what your mouth already can.

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if a squad is spaced as they should be the coord system is an approximation at best.

It is far better to say "at the green building to the west of SL" in absolutely every case.

At long ranges a coordinate is useful to help pinpoint when sitting next to each other but this still requires "half way down the hill near the group of light coloured bushes"

 

Back in CQB we get reduced reaction times which make SL markers almost pointless and we should be using local chat which only needs to involve those near us. If a local marker was enabled we could say "you go in that door [*mark] i'll suppress this one [*mark]" these marks are visible to people near me, as if I had pointed at them...as I would in real life. 3-5 seconds later the marks are gone.

 

No use of coordinates will give this ability to comprehend quickly and simply without extensive descriptions and is a replacement for the lack of body language which is a high percentage of all human communication. The alternative to a 3d marker would be a "pointing" animation but I think this would be hard to recognise in game due to the reduced awareness limited by the FOV and other senses.

 

btw I use coms better than anyone else in game. this is irrefutable fact :)

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