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Remove K/D statistics

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People tend to think K/D is the most important thing in a game. They forget all of the work support teams, pilots, commanders,and so on do to win the match for the main "fighters". In a game like this where building bases and moving ammo and supplies will play a major role K/D is not the be all end all accomplishment of a match. Props to original poster of this topic.

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People tend to think K/D is the most important thing in a game. They forget all of the work support teams, pilots, commanders,and so on do to win the match for the main "fighters". In a game like this where building bases and moving ammo and supplies will play a major role K/D is not the be all end all accomplishment of a match. Props to original poster of this topic.

 

Indeed. Personally, I don't want a trans pilot that is concerned about K/D. :) 

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Indeed. Personally, I don't want a trans pilot that is concerned about K/D. :)

 

Hehe :D  isn't PR giving points for transport ?? 

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I am not a fan of the KD based on my experience with the cod series (RIP) and more recently BF4 (RIP). I know too many players that go rogue to boost their KD.

Being that this game is neither of those mentioned above, I fail to see the benefit of the KD as how it pertains to a Squad based game. Helpful information to me would all be based on Squad performance.

 

lol, how many of us have been transported in a chopper only to reallize that the pilot bailed out to suit themselves... :ph34r:

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But K/D ratio is important. It provides a metric to determine how well your team is doing. You could have the most team-oriented team with all squads supporting each other, but if there is a stalemate between flags and you're not keeping a positive K/D as a team, you're losing. And if the commander and squad leaders want to change strategy to pull out a victory, they need to know that information.

 

I'm for a 5 min delay in scoreboard reporting kinda like how it is in PR now. You don't get the confirmed kill until that enemy respawn which if they wait to full 5 mins for a revive, then that's how long the delay is in the scoreboard.

 

I'm a big believer in fighting the battles in PR to win. I don't want to spend 45+ mins in a losing effort. If my team loses by a slim margin I don't mind as much, but not knowing during the round how the tide of the battle is going by K/D would be a bummer.

 

If anything, include the overall team K/D in the scoreboard and keep individual K/D to the end of round scoreboard.

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I agree with not having a scoreboard while playing, but I still would like to see one at the end of the round so you can judge on how well you and your squad did overall.  It would be hard to judge your overall efficiency if there was nothing to go by imo.  Also, as already stated not having a scoreboard while playing will make it harder to gauge on whether you have killed your enemy at range, which can easily change the way you play. +1 OP.

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If we are going to have a KD, then make it just for the Squad KD. I can see the 1 player in a squad having a low KD being bumped from the squad. It doesn't take long to figure out who can hit the barn door.

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If we are going to have a KD, then make it just for the Squad KD. I can see the 1 player in a squad having a low KD being bumped from the squad. It doesn't take long to figure out who can hit the barn door.

 

I really like the idea of a squad K/D, and no individual K/Ds being displayed.

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But K/D ratio is important. It provides a metric to determine how well your team is doing. You could have the most team-oriented team with all squads supporting each other, but if there is a stalemate between flags and you're not keeping a positive K/D as a team, you're losing. And if the commander and squad leaders want to change strategy to pull out a victory, they need to know that information.

 

I'm for a 5 min delay in scoreboard reporting kinda like how it is in PR now. You don't get the confirmed kill until that enemy respawn which if they wait to full 5 mins for a revive, then that's how long the delay is in the scoreboard.

 

I'm a big believer in fighting the battles in PR to win. I don't want to spend 45+ mins in a losing effort. If my team loses by a slim margin I don't mind as much, but not knowing during the round how the tide of the battle is going by K/D would be a bummer.

 

If anything, include the overall team K/D in the scoreboard and keep individual K/D to the end of round scoreboard.

^ this is the direction that should be used. 

Display individual stats at the END Of the match and lump sum by squad/team in Live scoreboard. Solves all problems rationally and logically without crippling a mechanic because of fear. Pilots don't SUDDENLY stop flying because of PR's scoreboard nor do they run around trying to whore KD, the assumption that this will happen is absurd. The above quoted direction is the correct addressing of this believed/perceived "issue". (I say believed/perceived issue because the game isn't opened up enough to claim it to be an issue yet)

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Take the Insurgency route. Show K/D ONLY when you fully die (AKA Unrevivable)

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If people are too afraid to let go of seeing their own individual K/D stats at the end of the round and require it implemented, I say make it so that they're only visible to themselves. You can see your own individual stats and nobody else's. 

 

Always focus in on the squad/team's statistics first and foremost every single time stats are shown.

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Always focus in on the squad/team's statistics first and foremost every single time stats are shown.

 

+1

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If people are too afraid to let go of seeing their own individual K/D stats at the end of the round and require it implemented, I say make it so that they're only visible to themselves. You can see your own individual stats and nobody else's. 

 

Always focus in on the squad/team's statistics first and foremost every single time stats are shown.

A scoreboard shown for 20 seconds at most every hour+ at the end of a round (showing the entire teams performance or just top 15 score) does nothing to impeded the emphasis of squad/teamwork game play. Other wise you would assume 90% of PR is KD whoring, which in 90% of my games the winning team very rarely has "high KD" players rather the best scoring players are those employing squad/teamwork because that is what the game rewards and KD is secondary.

 

The emphasis on squad/team play is NOT based on IF the KD is shown publicly or not(pr has proven this OVER and over). Comparisons to cod/bf/arma are disingenuous and miss informed as those games PUT emphasis on the KD OVER the teamwork. AND consist of persistent stat tracking Again things PR and squad WILL NOT HAVE. It is not a comparison that holds any validity. 


The emphasis on teamwork/squad play WILL BE DONE by in game mechanics, and scoring systems. Which I have no doubt will done correctly without catering to unfounded fear. If you reward Kills with more points than squad play then YES KD will be negative. HOWEVER if you put emphasis on teamplay WHILE also tracking KD (with no emphasis on that KD) NO "KD" play will be generated as again PR and other titles prove. Therefor it is not advised to remove that stat as its the emphasis the GAME puts on that stat and not the stat itself.

TLDR
KD stat does not generate bad play alone. Persistent stat tracking (not in squad or PR) can create bad play, Scoring emphasis in the game put on KD (again NOT in squad or PR) can create bad play. but the simply display OF KD without any emphasis on that stat at the end of a hour+ match does not generate the bad play so many people are "fear mongering" about.

(Spoken to those who posted about these titles BF,COD,ARMA as comparisons for KD application)
To makes claims about BF and COD (in regards to application of KD stats) is equal in validity to claim that "both games have m4's therefor they are both arcade run and gun shooters" The fact that both games have the m4 has NO ties into the game play created WITH that gun. "Correlation does not imply causation" having a KD like other games with KD issues DOES NOT imply that KD is the cause OF that bad play.

If you are willing enough to assume that the "teamwork viability" in squad is SO on edge that a KD stat will "ruin it" or prevent it from being viable, is to FIRST make Wild and Gross assumptions about the core games design. Which I fundamentally disagree with and would rather see threads addressing the REAL design issue rather than scape goating a valuable statistic with great positive effects for learning and new player experiences. I do not believe the games team work mechanics are SO fragile that a 2 number display will ruin it.

think about this, What are "KD" players doing to achieve such a high KD? The idea that removing the statistic removes the play is in error. If you have an issue of people breaking the "rules" adding more rules doesn't solve the issue. To assume people who break the rules will suddenly start following them because there are more rules is more or less proven wrong. 

If people are abusing game play to "whore KD stats" then lets talk about WHAT these players are doing, rather than pretending that a number every hour+ is the key value in their play.

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While I can understand some points made there is value to K/D. Example if you are the squad marksman and have a K/D of 10-1 as you stated then you did justice obviously if those numbers are flipped you are hurting your squad and should not be a marksman. Im only making this statement from a snipers point of view.

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To makes claims about BF and COD (in regards to application of KD stats) is equal in validity to claim that "both games have m4's therefor they are both arcade run and gun shooters" The fact that both games have the m4 has NO ties into the game play created WITH that gun. "Correlation does not imply causation" having a KD like other games with KD issues DOES NOT imply that KD is the cause OF that bad play.

 

I said nothing about BF or COD in the post you quoted from me, why did you even mention those? And why are you constantly using capital letters? It's like you're yelling. 

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If people are too afraid to let go of seeing their own individual K/D stats at the end of the round and require it implemented, I say make it so that they're only visible to themselves. You can see your own individual stats and nobody else's. 

 

Always focus in on the squad/team's statistics first and foremost every single time stats are shown.

+1

 

^This is the best and only option to keep all sides of this discussion happy, the people who want K/D and the ones who don't.

 

As it has been mentioned so many times before,playing Squad is about the  whole team and K/D stats should be based on this.

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I said nothing about BF or COD in the post you quoted from me, why did you even mention those? And why are you constantly using capital letters? It's like you're yelling. 

I quoted and responded to you, then I "TLDR" which was not referring to your quote only but to the whole thread in general. I thought that was obvious but I will edit my post to make it clear I am not specifically addressing you in my 4th paragraph. 

I mention them because others in this thread did. I could have multi quoted, but my post was already long enough.

This is a forum of discussion. I use the full use of text options available to me emphasizing words with capitol letters, bolding and italicizing. I also capitalize things like game titles and abbreviation. 

I type how I speak, So naturally I add more speaking inflections and emphasis to my text.

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5 hours ago, -Hades said:

Only bads don't want stats.

Hardly. I don't care how many kills my team's Bradley crew has if my medic ass has had to walk all game because no transport is around.

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I don't play for K/D in this game it's all about the teamwork and moving forward as a team, I like to see my K/D at the end to see how many kills iv actually got, because most of the time in intense firefights im tagging people from medium to long range and im unsure if I've killed them or just tagged them. It's a nice little reward at the end of the game when your team goes wow, when you've gone 25/4/35 and say nice work but all you've been doing is playing the OBJ and helping your team. Most of the time ill play as HAT and get vehicle kills i don't get rewarded for but the sense of achievement I get from protecting my team from the enemy armor, with my sick ass aiming is fun. 

 

Some of the time when I feel like chilling ill just run logistics and just drive around dumping supplies were needed. 

 

Removing the K/D in my personal opinion isn't a good idea, shows some new player how well they can progress in the game, you don't get anything at the end of a game but the pure satisfaction that you did good in a game. As there isn't any points or leveling up or stats in this game. 

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dont know what I probably said before on this as its now an old thread..but I always check my K/D its a good way to see if I can actually hit people!  But it is not the most important thing .. although dying as a medic 11 times with 11 heals not sure is worth while.. so it can tell you about performance ...

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For those claiming that K/D count does not matter, try talking the enemies out of the cap zone next time.

 

K/D ratio is actually a vary reliable tool for measuring one's actual contribution to the team's success. A team with 100 kills most likely contributed far more than one with 50 kills(unless they were logi or mortar squads), and it not only proves the skillness of individual team member, but also that of the SL who managed to get his squad into action effectively.

 

I would even argue that the current point system is completely broken, as a squad spending the entire game building useless super fobs yet getting overrun in minutes can score higher than one assulting enemies positions eliminating FOBs, infantry and vehicles to bleed enemy tickets. In fact, what we need are seperate kill count systems for vehicle hits and FOB eliminations. 

Edited by Noobgamer

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