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CageMatchKimsey

We've had a good while with v7 now, how do you like it?

We've had a good while with v7 now, how do you like it?  

126 members have voted

  1. 1. Essentially, are you glad we now have vehicles?

    • I average 30 fps+ and like v7 (yay vehicles, the game needed them)
      68
    • I average 30 fps+ and liked it better prior to v7 (performance or fatal error is too much of a headache)
      13
    • I DO NOT average 30 fps+ and like v7 (yay vehicles, the game needed them)
      11
    • I DO NOT average 30 fps+ and liked it better prior to v7 (performance or fatal error is too much of a headache)
      11
    • Any progress puts us closer to release
      14
    • I think issues being introduced when we had relatively smooth gameplay is a step backward
      7
  2. 2. Assuming a similar hit to performance, are you glad we have Vehicles or would you have preferred 100 players first?

    • Vehicles all the way baby
      111
    • 100 players - 50 v 50 is where it's at
      14


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I feel for those who have severe performance issues but think the game needed a milestone of either Vehicles or 100p over a possible performance increase.

Edited by CageMatchKimsey

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Vehicles have made this game even more intense and added another layer of depth. I love em. The bugs and performance issues will get ironed out, obviously. I think it's good that the devs pushed them out earlier than later...you just have to push forward and make progress, ironing out the finer points later IMO.

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For me the game crashing constantly and at every game restart is not fun.  I enjoy the vehicles, but am seriously bummed that they introduced so many fatal errors and crashes.  It seems to me like these should have been apparent before vehicle release and at least worked on somewhat.

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The lack of refinement upon release is, somewhat, frustrating. Although, knowing the size of the team compared to other AAA releases -- it's understandable and I really appreciate them coming forth and acknowledge the fatal errors and working around them in the small patches we've received over the past few weeks. Unfortunately these errors kill a lot of the "enjoyment factor" but I can't say they make the game unplayable for me.

 

The vehicles... I'm still 50/50 on, personally. I think they're needed in the end but I almost feel like it was too soon for the release. I also dislike some of the features and in some cases they can be restricting actual gameplay. (Spawn at base, vehicles drive off, and you're locked out of all the remaining vehicles... great.)

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Game was beginning to get samey so luckily the vehicles introduced a new sense of excitement and tactics.

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1 hour ago, MoTeC said:

The lack of refinement upon release is, somewhat, frustrating.

 

Thankfully the game hasn't been released yet, we're still in the Alpha phase where some people bought in to play during the "early access" period, which helps the developers by allowing what is essentially mass-stress-testing and gather community feedback about performance and feature direction in the game, where they so please. :)

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4 hours ago, JAndreoli said:

For me the game crashing constantly and at every game restart is not fun.  I enjoy the vehicles, but am seriously bummed that they introduced so many fatal errors and crashes.  It seems to me like these should have been apparent before vehicle release and at least worked on somewhat.

Keep in mind, they DIDN'T know about the crashes and crappy frames because these issues, for whatever reason, didn't show up during testing, even with dozens of testers.

Edited by fatalsushi

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I still want 50/50 Gameplay but the vehicles relly add something to the game. When, for instance a squat of infantry alone in a town and you hear engine sound, then it becomes exciting and the guy with the RPG becomes relly important, to have the right place. 

Now the bugs just need to be traced down and crushed.

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vehicles first over 100 player servers, personally I would limit server size to say 52 slots to help the whole community play the game across more servers.

 

Then let V8 optimization happen and if appropriate increase server size again etc.

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vehicule FTW but since 7.2, I've crashed 3 times in 1h30 in the same server and the last crash had frozen my PC, I need to press reset to reboot....

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 The bar shouldn't be 30+ FPS, this is a shooter - the bar should be 45-60+.

I personally find 30 FPS unplayable when it comes to shooters.

I've posted a few times, but I'm anti-vehicle:

1) Vehicle use is too random and unpredictable, making thoughtful decisions needlessly complex

1a) As an extension to this, pre-v7 when your Squad committed to a move action or attack action, you knew it was going to take X time to complete said action. You could make estimates or use recon to determine enemy movement as well. Vehicles increase the pace too much, and poor vehicle use adds too much unpredictability. Also, the issue of the beginning of each match being a race to an objective was only amplified with vehicles. Too many matches are decided by who gets to, say, Storage Site first.

2) Introduces the dreaded rock-paper-scissor effect. Everyone pre-v7 was on equal footing, with small quirks/advantages given to each role. One skilled, resourceful player could turn the tide in a battle.

2a)  I've hated this in Battlefield, Planetside, etc. Let's say your Squad (scissors) runs into a vehicle (rock), you use your rocket gunner (paper) to take out the vehicle. He misses both shots or just one, and now you have 8 soldiers with two options: Run or hide. I hate this style of gameplay.

3) I don't believe that vehicles are worth the 50-100% FPS loss. If the performance is permanently like this because of vehicles, and better hardware doesn't solve the issue (like in Arma), then I'll be sorely disappointed.

 

Just for the record: I can look past 2. I understand what type of game Squad wants to be, I just fell in love with the game Squad was. If infantry-only servers were more popular, I'd feel a lot better about v7. I enjoy the smaller additions: timer on fob, weapon sway, run speed, etc. All are great and contribute to the greater whole, I just feel like vehicles overshadow the many ways the game did improve with v7.

 

Conclusion: Squad was one of my go-to games. Now, I haven't booted it up in over a week. I'm hoping the dev's deal with some of the issues that I personally have with the game in its current state. If my vision of Squad doesn't line up with theirs, then that's fine and their decision, and there's plenty of other games I can play.

Edited by Crichton

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Don't forget that vehicles also brought logistics into the mix. The whole claiming system still needs work if we're going to have dedicated transport and logistics squads, but combined arms is where this game was always supposed to go. In my opinion, where it should go.

 

As for performance, I think we've hit the minimum acceptable. Sometimes, frames can even tank to the low 20's, depending on map and server pop. So I'd say that making V8 an optimization update after introducing vehicles in V7 is the way to go.

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My biggest issue with V7 is it has compounded the problem with lack of quality SL's. I was in a game last night where we sat in base for 10 minutes trying to figure out who was going to be SL for squad 2 and 3 and what transport to take. All the while the other team ran around the maps with supply trucks getting up FOBs. We lost by 365 tickets. I don't think I have been in a game since V7 where the winning team didn't win by less than 100 tickets. I know a lot of people think it will work itself out in the long run but it's not like this wasn't an issue 3 months ago. SL's need some tools to make it easier for newer SL's to lead. I personally don't have much fun running over the other team to the last base and vice versa.

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1 hour ago, Crichton said:

 The bar shouldn't be 30+ FPS, this is a shooter - the bar should be 45-60+.

I personally find 30 FPS unplayable when it comes to shooters.

I've posted a few times, but I'm anti-vehicle:

1) Vehicle use is too random and unpredictable, making thoughtful decisions needlessly complex........

 

 

30 fps is the lowest I would call playable.  I have some skin in it because I don't average a lot more than that and usually still contribute and most importantly still have fun.  It's also around the point of eye trickery.  Of course, playable or not is a subjective measurement and I agree 45-60 is what I expect when the game is further optimized.  Less than that and I'd be underwhelmed.

 

The point of the 30fps +- is to segregate who can probably play and who probably can't.  Had to pick some point to start.  My wife gets 15 fps and that is distinctly difficult to play.

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13 hours ago, Psyrus said:

 

Thankfully the game hasn't been released yet, we're still in the Alpha phase where some people bought in to play during the "early access" period, which helps the developers by allowing what is essentially mass-stress-testing and gather community feedback about performance and feature direction in the game, where they so please. :)

Technically it is released.  

 

I'd prefer 50v50 but having vehicles is a nice change of pace.  

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7 minutes ago, smokyhook said:

Early access does not equal "released"

 

Separate debate, part of why early access is so controversial.

My definition of early-access is functional, well performing, but content incomplete. Which is a fair trade for me paying $$$ for a product.

My definition of alpha/beta is perhaps not so functional, unoptimized, and content incomplete. Which is a fair trade for me paying nothing.

 

Squad is walking a fine line between functional/well performing and not so functional/unoptimized as of v7

Edited by Crichton

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3 minutes ago, smokyhook said:

Understood- however,as you noted, those are your definitions... not everyone's.

Not everyone's, but I think there's a case to be made that people will get more angry over rough patches (like some would say v7 is) when they have $$$ invested than when they got invited to a closed alpha/beta for free.

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2 hours ago, smokyhook said:

Early access does not equal "released"

Arguing semantics is dumb.  The game is released.  It's available to the public for purchase.  

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15 minutes ago, DesmoLocke said:

Stay on topic.

 

maxresdefault.jpg!!!!!!! Has been some great discussion, keep it civil folks.

Edited by CageMatchKimsey

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Back when infantry was first released it was very limited (no prone anyone?), lots of glitches and bugs, bad performance and so on. It took more than 6 months to refine and get to the v6, and yet there are some enhancements to be done (anymation refactoring). This is just for infantry feature in the game. Now that vehicles are out, they are at the same stage as infantry back when squad came out: lots of bugs, limitations, bad performance, etc. It will take some months more to refine them to the same level as infantry is now.

 

Same with us players, it took us sometime to fleshen out the meta in general and for each map, and each version brought adjustments based on players experience and devs' goals. So the same will happen to vehicles, we are still fleshing out the new meta, and so lots of mistakes and experimenting right now.

 

Back in Project Reality the maps are much bigger, so teams have more time to plan and execute, there is not such a big hush for flags at the start, but each  map usually has a predefined "opening movement" similar to chess, where some tactics are known to work better than others. Like getting a heli to take a squad to the first enemy flag to hold them from capturing it while the rest of the team advances. These and other metas will appear as time goes and players learn how best use each resource in the game.

 

I like where squad is heading, similar to PR cadence but with new tools and features too, just lacking content but then PR took 10 years to get everything is has today. Lots of those contents will certainly come from squad modding community, which is already shaping up great. Great times ahead gentlemen.

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I sometimes wish we had infantry only versions where we could just go back and play on a stable platform.  The bleeding edgers can get their vehicle servers.  Thankfully despite performance dips I can still play when I want.

One thing I am really hoping for is that vehicle handling will be redone at some point.  The handling of most vehicles is laughably arcadish.

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1 minute ago, mikec81 said:

I sometimes wish we had infantry only versions where we could just go back and play on a stable platform.  The bleeding edgers can get their vehicle servers.  Thankfully despite performance dips I can still play when I want.

One thing I am really hoping for is that vehicle handling will be redone at some point.  The handling of most vehicles is laughably arcadish.

 

 

I would like to be able to run folk over and it kill them.  It is kind of a neat dynamic however to bounce back.

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