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Ladders: Vertical - Dimensional & Collision.

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LADDERS: dimensional constraints and/or collision requirements.(how to get one to work - my method)

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*******        UPDATE: the post to look at is here:

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Could one of the Devs post the relevant dimensional constraints for creating a "ladder" that will work with the game and character animations, please?

 

Or, are we able to modify (re-model/adjust) the current Ladder asset and have it still work correctly?

 

I have posted pics in the "WIP" thread of building objects i have made that have stairs (i have made them 200mmx200mm(step) and they appear to work properly) but also a couple have "Re-Bar Rung" ladders, which i would like to act as ladders. >

 

 

 

Cheers!

.LJ

ps: please do not direct me to Discord, thanks.

Edited by LaughingJack

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The current ladders don't have any animations attached to scaling them, are you referring to future possible animations? Currently they just basically just disable gravity on the pawn and change the w/s input to the y (or z, not sure what unreal uses for up, I guess z) axis. You could easily do the same with some rudimentary blueprints. If you're referring to some actual climbing animation that I'm unaware of, sorry for wasting your time

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Hey Psyrus,

ta for the reply. i pretty sure UE uses Z for the up/down axis, i think most game engines do, unlike nearly all 3D programs that use Y instead.

i'm not after the Animations stuff, per-se, but need to know what I have to do to suit the animations in the game already.

if the Climbing Ladders system IS as simple as you've just described then dimensions would be arbitrary unless  you want the animated hands and feet of the Pawn to actually look like they're using the ladder rungs, instead of looking like the Pawn is shimmying/sliding up and down with arms a legs pistoning all the time and looking very B-Grade.

i know that in CryEngine you have to stick to specific dimensions so that the Pawns hands and feet actually Connect to (find) the ladder being climbed, because in that engine you are physically connected to the object whilst climbing (afaik).

i was hoping that the Climbing thing would be a Blueprint (or collision/triggger volume) that i could attach to the ladder (or set of rungs) object so that it would be seen as a "Climable Object" and a Pawn could climb them.

 

Cheers!

.LJ

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OK, so i've re-named the thread- just for Ladders now.

 

I've had a good look at Squads Deployable Ladder asset to see if i can understand how they work.

the ladder mesh is tied to 3 volumes that don't really tell me what they do, but from sifting through the settings for each i have come to the conclusion that they are probably only there for the Deployable side of things (ie: deployment limits and such).

looking at the Mesh itself, it has Colllision set to Custom but the custom settings are within the Blueprint somehow - the actual settings for making it "climbable" - not within the Mesh settings. now i guessed that these settings are only in a blueprint because of the need for the other "Deployment" controls for the Ladder to be in a blueprint.

 

my question now is this: can the Mesh itself deal with the collisions required to make it climbable? (without the need to involve a blueprint).

 

what i would like to do is use my own Mesh and set the collisions to "Block-All" and "Character can step up on to" and the "ground slope" thing set to 90 degrees (+ tolerance if req'd) - and hope i get a working ladder out of it.

 

any help is greatly appreciated as the info iv'e found so far in the docs and searching for tutorials is next to useless.

 

Cheers!

.LJ

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I am at work so I can't check out the SDK to give you actual guidance, but if I can make one suggestion, try reading this document and for now, implement your own ladder system based on the tutorial. You will probably throw away the work later, but taking the hour or so to understand and implement this system, you will get a much better grasp for the blueprinting and actor system, and it should help you in tweaking later. 

 

https://gamingbootcamp.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/ue4blueprintladdervolumetutorial.pdf

 

If you don't want do do that and haven't got any other responses, when I get home on Sunday I will try to remember to jump into the SDK and give you some more detailed help. 

 

Edit: Got a little more time. Here are some more resources that look great on cursory glance. 

https://answers.unrealengine.com/questions/15993/how-to-make-a-ladder-with-blueprint.html

https://www.reddit.com/r/unrealengine/comments/44ack1/making_a_working_climbable_ladder/

 

Edit: A little info about volumes, could be helpful for this or future modding

https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Engine/Actors/Volumes/

Edited by Psyrus

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Ta for the reply Psyrus, much appreciated.

 

i've actually looked at those and more (most are dealing with 2d sidescrollers, lols), except the vid, which was interesting, if eye-glazingly diffucult to follow or understand. the problem with all those ones is they are dealing with a system where the player has to press a button to activate climbing the ladder and use a magic-flying-person type thing to fake climbing the ladder - seems cheap and clunky to me, apart from being silly-complicated.

what i'm looking for is something that makes the character climb the ladder (W/S) and be able to stop/start and look around (MOUSE) at any point along the ladder, fall/slip off if strafing (A/D) and not need to press a button to "Use" the ladder.

 

i don't believe Squad uses all that, or much of it.  i believe (correct me if i'm wrong Devs) that Squad allows the character to "step" onto each rung and be able to walk uphill at up to 89 degrees, therefore requiring a fairly specific spacing of ladder rungs to allow the character to reach each rung when stepping upwards, and using a fairly simple system to achieve it - very similar to the way stairs work with basic(complex) collision, just vertical.

 

i think what i need to do is have my ladder Mesh and add a volume to it that tells the character controller to allow walking uphill at 90deg. i assume doing this, making a blueprint, will expose the other Collision Customisation panel that the Mesh does not have, where i can set these settings.

 

i will have more of a play tonight. ;)

 

 

Cheers!

.LJ

 

Edited by LaughingJack

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well i've got a working ladder for what i  needed - well close enough. thanks again @Psyrus, for making me think harder about it.

 

nearly vertical ladder (4 deg. off)

 

i think a 4 degree tilt will go unnoticed on my rung ladders, which are vertical.

turned out simpler, as i'd suspected - after i'd finally looked at the Ladder Static Mesh and not the BP Deployable version!  - i managed to fit all the relevant settings into the side panel for those interested.

Note: anything less than 4 degrees produced a laggy start to the climb; less than 3.5 produced pronounced Climbing when trying to strafe off the side; less than 3 made it difficult to even get the climb to start, if at all.

 

i also tried making a collision box for each rung and both rails, which seemed to work when the Ladder was placed vertically, but i did get stuck most of the way up so i think i may have run into a higher rung(collision box)  that stopped me. maybe offset/step each collision box backwards a small amount going up from the bottom, might get it to work properly - might try this as well and see what happens.

 

the next job is to swap the ladder Mesh for my re-bar rungs Mesh and see what happens.

 

.LJ

 

 

 

Edited by LaughingJack

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WooHoo! finally got a working vertical ladder!

 

JO_Asset_ReBarRungs_2

 

and the Collisions stuffs

JO_Asset_ReBarRungs_1

 

easy to use. works reliably. easy to back on to from the top, to come down. slope to catch you if you miss the edge at the top (4.375 degree angle on the volume). the ReBars are 300mm apart.

Edited by LaughingJack

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@LaughingJack I congratulate you on your success and perseverance. However it doesn't look like a very good solution to what is, it seems, a functional problem in the UE engine. Why the engine has a problem with vertical ladders needs to really be addressed by Epic.

 

Your 'solution' only allows for limited height ladders until you clip the obstacle they're attached to at the top of the ladder. It would look bad as your character starts off climbing away from the ladder and then clips through the ladder as he climbs.

 

Out of interest have you tried creating a vertical ladder so you might have to do a 'jump' start to the climb? Not sure how that would fair for the decent though.

 

TLDR: Epic need to sort this and enable reliable climbing mechanics in their engine.

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Ta for the reply Major, :)

 

I absolutely agree, Epic needs to fix this, considering they, and many others, promote the UE engine to be the best thing since sliced bread.

 

Considering there is no default climbing mechanic built into the engine, and that to have one, you have to create it from scratch, and that climbing is really just walking up really steep slopes as it stands, i dont think a bit of clipping/floating of feet(etc.) will be noticed so much and i won't really be bothered about it until we get "Climbing" in the engine.

I could do the jump-start thing by simply raising the Collision Box up a bit - so you had to jump to the first rung, kinda thing. Coming down, I believe you would simply Walk off the bottom of the Box face and drop to the floor (few inches or so) . . . I think. (after all it's just walking up/down a really steep plane)

Yes i'm limited to height with this solution but i dont really need anything longer at this point.

As for the Bad Clipping; At the bottom it looks kind of like when you approach a ladder and swing up to the first rung in one hit, in one motion - only looks bad when you stop at the bottom and see the gap. At the top is easy unless poor object placement puts something in the way. Backing onto the ladder from top is pretty easy and allows a confident start to descent. And at the top your feet look like they're in the right place (kinda), and in the middle looks like your hanging-ten of the rungs.

Another thing with the angled Box is that it will "catch" you if you 'miss the top step'.

Oh, and i don't end up with Magic Flying Avatar that requires a complexity of Blueprint stuffs to work - like most of the solutions i've found in tutes and vids online. this works with just the Mesh and a Collision Box - soooo much simpler.

 

 

Cheers!

.LJ

Edited by LaughingJack

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On 8/28/2016 at 0:06 AM, Major Trouble said:

 

TLDR: Epic need to sort this and enable reliable climbing mechanics in their engine.

 

3 hours ago, LaughingJack said:

I absolutely agree, Epic needs to fix this, considering they, and many others, promote the UE engine to be the best thing since sliced bread.

 

Considering there is no default climbing mechanic built into the engine, and that to have one, you have to create it from scratch, and that climbing is really just walking up really steep slopes as it stands, i dont think a bit of clipping/floating of feet(etc.) will be noticed so much and i won't really be bothered about it until we get "Climbing" in the engine.

 

Sorry I just want to point out a small fundamental misunderstanding here. The engine and Epic are under no obligation nor should they be expected to provide "ladder climbing mechanics" in the engine. The engine is an amalgamation of physics, lighting, sound, graphics and input "engines" (or components). They made it "developer friendly" by including a bunch of sample projects for people to learn from, but their job is to make and improve the fundamental systems to enable game developers to create their game mechanics (such as ladder climbing, if they so wish). 

 

If you look carefully, there isn't even a default "walking" or "jumping"  system in the engine. They have input capture and some base functions to translate the position of actors/pawns, and from there you build your own movement system however you'd like. That means it could be 6-dof, side scrolling, inertial, teleportation... whatever you want! That is the beauty and power of such an engine. 

Edited by Psyrus

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25 minutes ago, Psyrus said:

 

 

Sorry I just want to point out a small fundamental misunderstanding here. The engine and Epic are under no obligation nor should they be expected to provide "ladder climbing mechanics" in the engine. The engine is an amalgamation of physics, lighting, sound, graphics and input "engines" (or components). They made it "developer friendly" by including a bunch of sample projects for people to learn from, but their job is to make and improve the fundamental systems to enable game developers to create their game mechanics (such as ladder climbing, if they so wish). 

 

If you look carefully, there isn't even a default "walking" or "jumping"  system in the engine. They have input capture and some base functions to translate the position of actors/pawns, and from there you build your own movement system however you'd like. That means it could be 6-dof, side scrolling, inertial, teleportation... whatever you want! That is the beauty and power of such an engine. 

 

      Whilst true and agreeable (no misunderstanding on my part, i know theres no obligation) i still think they could include such basic functions as walk/run, jump and climb as defaults. After all they are welcoming Indie Developers (which would infer everyone from experienced to non-experienced(Me) peeps that want to make something beyond a static environment) to use it, they say it's easy to use (or sum such), Lols! even CryEngine comes with a fully working avatar by default.

      I enjoy utilising existing things in different ways, such as taking an object that needs minor/major tweaking to suit my purposes and i enjoy learning the bits'n'pieces that make them work, but it's hard to renovate a House if its actually a Woodshed, and instructions on how to build a house amount to "you can build a house in here" but don't tell you what is required to actually build one - the problem i have with the Docs for UE4, they are next to useless for beginers such as myself (same goes for almost all "Docs" - most are lists tools but no explanation on HOW they work).

      I guess the problem i have is this: to find any Help you have to rely on the wider community, not the Docs as they are cursory at best - devoid at worst.; and with this particular issue of vertical ladders, the only Help i could find, through online community, was relating to overly complex builds that would not suit my useage/tweaking.

whilst this is a very powerful engine, and we'll see that one day when they finally iron out the bugs and make half the features actually work, outside of some "no-player cinematic", i do think it is nearly impossible for a beginner to actually produce anything worthwhile in less than half a lifetime without outside community help. they don't even hint at how it could be done.

     i work full time running my business so weekends are the only real time i get to play with these things and if i had to actually learn all the nitty-gritty of this (and other) software, i would still be trying to get an avatar to run around in my map after six months. (fun fact: took me 2 weeks(off & on) of trying to learn LUA to make a simple switch in CryEngine - the frustration of broken Docs and almost zero help made me give up entirely :().

    

 

.LJ

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This is similar situation to learning how to program in any language: you can't complain the compiler manual doesn't explain how to create a CRM system. I know I am exaggerating here, but the analogy is not that far from truth. The problem with pre-made solutions is that they don't fit every need, that was the case with ue's net code which OWI had to rewrite to make vehicles work reliably on Squad's scale of maps and # of players. So a generic ladder system would be nice to have but could not fit games being created, potentially a waste of resources. Besides there are many ways to accomplish features, each with pros and cons, it would be impossible to document them all. Just my 2 cents.

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5 hours ago, Psyrus said:

 

 

Sorry I just want to point out a small fundamental misunderstanding here. The engine and Epic are under no obligation nor should they be expected to provide "ladder climbing mechanics" in the engine. The engine is an amalgamation of physics, lighting, sound, graphics and input "engines" (or components). They made it "developer friendly" by including a bunch of sample projects for people to learn from, but their job is to make and improve the fundamental systems to enable game developers to create their game mechanics (such as ladder climbing, if they so wish). 

 

If you look carefully, there isn't even a default "walking" or "jumping"  system in the engine. They have input capture and some base functions to translate the position of actors/pawns, and from there you build your own movement system however you'd like. That means it could be 6-dof, side scrolling, inertial, teleportation... whatever you want! That is the beauty and power of such an engine. 

 

I find it sad that such an important game engine doesn't at least offer some rudimentary mechanics that less advanced developers can't adapt and learn from. It appears that Cryengine does and is all the better for it. Epic may not be under obligation to provide such content but it would help the engines adoption rate enormously if simple things are accessible.

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33 minutes ago, Major Trouble said:

I find it sad that such an important game engine doesn't at least offer some rudimentary mechanics that less advanced developers can't adapt and learn from. It appears that Cryengine does and is all the better for it. Epic may not be under obligation to provide such content but it would help the engines adoption rate enormously if simple things are accessible.

 

Hmm, I have the feeling you haven't worked much with the engine if you're saying there aren't many learning materials and starter kits.... But I could be wrong. It is the first engine I have worked with that provided so much hand-holding. You mention that Cryengine has a bunch of things already in it... that is true but it is just Crysis assets and code with very little explanation or guidance. I was part of the PR2 team for a very short period and please believe me when I say UE4 is like a dream compared to CE3, especially for newbies. 

 

Over 300 tutorial videos created by Epic developers (over 30 topics) plus almost 500 indexed community tutorial videos + dev twitch streams

https://www.youtube.com/user/UnrealDevelopmentKit/playlists

 

Over 100 easy to find community driven tutorials ranging from simple to complicated

https://wiki.unrealengine.com/Category:Tutorials

 

5+ full working game examples that can be downloaded for free (with source code) - I think there are more but the docs haven't been updated. 

https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Resources/SampleGames/

 

A bunch of templates to learn from when starting a new project (last time I checked there were 8 completely different templates ranging from vehicles to 1st person to 3rd person to others)

Edited by Psyrus

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@Psyrus You're 100% correct I have zero experience of the UE4 development engine and I am basing my judgment on LaughingJack's efforts to fudge his way around working ladders. If there are usable examples out there that he's missed then that's a great resource and my disappointment is probably a bit unwarranted.

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22 hours ago, Zenrique said:

. . . . The problem with pre-made solutions is that they don't fit every need, that was the case with ue's net code which OWI had to rewrite to make vehicles work reliably on Squad's scale of maps and # of players. So a generic ladder system would be nice to have but could not fit games being created, potentially a waste of resources. Besides there are many ways to accomplish features, each with pros and cons, it would be impossible to document them all. Just my 2 cents.

 At least they had something to work from, to give some understanding of which direction to head. you've answered your own question, kinda thing - adapt the existing.

A generic system would never be a waste of resources. this is exactly what IS needed - again, something to work from - a working example to sit beside the Docs.

i'm sorry, i need examples to work from as the Docs confuse me in places and im not a scriptmonkey with programming experience (ie: exactly the experience you guys have got and thus dont fully understand where unexperienced n00bs such as myself are coming from when we have issues like this).

 

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18 hours ago, Psyrus said:

 

Hmm, I have the feeling you haven't worked much with the engine if you're saying there aren't many learning materials and starter kits.... But I could be wrong. It is the first engine I have worked with that provided so much hand-holding. You mention that Cryengine has a bunch of things already in it... that is true but it is just Crysis assets and code with very little explanation or guidance. I was part of the PR2 team for a very short period and please believe me when I say UE4 is like a dream compared to CE3, especially for newbies. 

 

Over 300 tutorial videos created by Epic developers (over 30 topics) plus almost 500 indexed community tutorial videos + dev twitch streams

https://www.youtube.com/user/UnrealDevelopmentKit/playlists

 

Over 100 easy to find community driven tutorials ranging from simple to complicated

https://wiki.unrealengine.com/Category:Tutorials

 

5+ full working game examples that can be downloaded for free (with source code) - I think there are more but the docs haven't been updated. 

https://docs.unrealengine.com/latest/INT/Resources/SampleGames/

 

A bunch of templates to learn from when starting a new project (last time I checked there were 8 completely different templates ranging from vehicles to 1st person to 3rd person to others)

 

CryEngine actually has a really good and expansive set of tools to work with, in particular is the landscape & foliage tools, that have Paint By Slope/Elevation and a couple other features as well, that UE4 does not have and as such makes UE4 quite difficult to work with in some areas, compared to CE3. what took me mere hours in CryEngine took nearly 3 weeks to figure out in UE4, due to shitty Docs and broken stuff and lack of basic paint tool options.

the Crysis assets, even witout good Docs (they terrible), again it's at the very least a starting point from which to learn.

you've obviously worked with this kind of stuff for years and have a good experiance base to work from, so things that appear simple and obvious to you will confuse the crap outa me, so i take all the hand holding i can get. UE4 has very little handholding IMO for my level of competancy or knowledge of the engine, the Docs are rough and i still maintain that the best source of info is the community not Epic, they just throw you in the deep end and expect you to learn before drowning.

as for the links above, the first one is extensive, i could spend half the day just looking for a ladder in it and 20 of the 30 catagories dont relate to my issue(s). the second link has no ladders at all that i could find and the third i've already skimmed over ages ago (1st person game ex.) and it is simply a wall of programmer-speak to me, devoid of ladders, and i dont have the time or inclination to spend the next year or two trying to learn about game scripting etc.

my experience is in using an Interactive Level Editor (NILE) not an entire Game Engine. i dont want or need to learn how to create a game i just want to build maps & assets for the existing game.  :)

 

Cheers!

.LJ

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40 minutes ago, LaughingJack said:

 At least they had something to work from, to give some understanding of which direction to head. you've answered your own question, kinda thing - adapt the existing.

A generic system would never be a waste of resources. this is exactly what IS needed - again, something to work from - a working example to sit beside the Docs.

i'm sorry, i need examples to work from as the Docs confuse me in places and im not a scriptmonkey with programming experience (ie: exactly the experience you guys have got and thus dont fully understand where unexperienced n00bs such as myself are coming from when we have issues like this).

 

 

Actually I get where you're coming from, we were all beginners at some point so I agree with you, examples would help a lot. Perhaps the best solution would be for Epic to provide a basic example of each style of game they support on the engine, like a simple FPS, a racing game, a RTS game,  etc. At least of the most common types of games out there. Then there would be a simple implementation of features like ladder climbing, weapon system, damage system and so on, very basic just for teaching. But even this would be a monnumental thing for Epic to do, for even a simple game would require a lot of work. But then people would have a nice example from where to start.

 

Regarding the network system, I agree in parto too: it may have provided an example of how to do sometings, but the core had to be totally rewritten from scratch if I understood it correctly. So it had it value as a starting point, even to model parts of the vehicle system which werent directly related to network (physics, damage,  posession, etc).

 

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18 hours ago, Major Trouble said:

@Psyrus You're 100% correct I have zero experience of the UE4 development engine and I am basing my judgment on LaughingJack's efforts to fudge his way around working ladders. If there are usable examples out there that he's missed then that's a great resource and my disappointment is probably a bit unwarranted.

 

actually it's virtually identical to OWI's Deployable Ladder but without the deployment mechanics and is vertical, not angled. it just took me a week to work that out, before using the idea on my ladder object.

of the examples iv'e found, none deal with vertical and nearly every one is from a single player game environment that uses magic-floating-person mechanics to move and a button to Use the ladder, consequently requiring masses of Blueprint stuff that makes my head hurt.

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4 minutes ago, LaughingJack said:

CryEngine actually has a really good and expansive set of tools to work with, in particular is the landscape & foliage tools, that have Paint By Slope/Elevation and a couple other features as well, that UE4 does not have and as such makes UE4 quite difficult to work with in some areas, compared to CE3. what took me mere hours in CryEngine took nearly 3 weeks to figure out in UE4, due to shitty Docs and broken stuff and lack of basic paint tool options.

 

 

Yeah I can't comment in terms of mapping, the only stuff I looked at was scripting/code and object imports (my -not-so- pretty wheelbarrow :P ) . I have no doubt that CE has its strengths, but basically the unnecessary complexity of the character import and animation system destroyed what little motivation we had left. 

 

8 minutes ago, LaughingJack said:

you've obviously worked with this kind of stuff for years and have a good experiance base to work from, so things that appear simple and obvious to you will confuse the crap outa me, so i take all the hand holding i can get.

 

That's understandable, and I applaud your efforts. But at the end of the day there is a reason why even half-decent software developers make a pretty respectable amount of cash just sitting on their butts tapping away at keys (and planning etc obviously)... it's not a particularly easy skill to learn. 

 

11 minutes ago, LaughingJack said:

as for the links above, the first one is extensive, i could spend half the day just looking for a ladder in it and 20 of the 30 catagories dont relate to my issue(s). the second link has no ladders at all that i could find and the third i've already skimmed over ages ago (1st person game ex.) and it is simply a wall of programmer-speak to me, devoid of ladders, and i dont have the time or inclination to spend the next year or two trying to learn about game scripting etc.

 

The point is, unfortunately, that you won't find cookie cutter solutions for most of your issues. The documentation and tutorials are very good for getting the basics down, and from there it is a matter of experimenting and improving until you get to the level that you can implement what you want to do. But essentially I feel bad for you because you're (seemingly, please correct me if I am wrong) not interested in becoming a developer or a scripting modder, so this stuff really is throwing you in the deep end, so to speak. 

 

In these kinds of cases you can feel fine with just hacking together whatever you manage as a placeholder, then find someone who is proficient at scripting to give you a hand with that side of things down the road. :) 

14 minutes ago, LaughingJack said:

my experience is in using an Interactive Level Editor (NILE) not an entire Game Engine. i dont want or need to learn how to create a game i just want to build maps & assets for the existing game.  :)

 

 

That's exactly right, you want to mod and do level design, so honestly just don't worry about the scripting stuff. That being said, a lot of the map related stuff goes through blueprints, so they are good to become familiar with anyway 

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5 minutes ago, Zenrique said:

 

Actually I get where you're coming from, we were all beginners at some point so I agree with you, examples would help a lot. Perhaps the best solution would be for Epic to provide a basic example of each style of game they support on the engine, like a simple FPS, a racing game, a RTS game,  etc. At least of the most common types of games out there. Then there would be a simple implementation of features like ladder climbing, weapon system, damage system and so on, very basic just for teaching. But even this would be a monnumental thing for Epic to do, for even a simple game would require a lot of work. But then people would have a nice example from where to start. < they have, to some point. Psurus's 3rd link is it. however, as iv'e stated, it's a wall of programmer-speak to me.

 

Regarding the network system, I agree in parto too: it may have provided an example of how to do sometings, but the core had to be totally rewritten from scratch if I understood it correctly. So it had it value as a starting point, even to model parts of the vehicle system which werent directly related to network (physics, damage,  posession, etc).  < indeed. but they employ qualified coders. althought the Logic behind those things is relativley simple to follow.

 

 

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On 30/08/2016 at 1:48 PM, Psyrus said:

. . .  (my -not-so- pretty wheelbarrow :P )  < orsim wheelbarra' !

 

. I have no doubt that CE has its strengths, but basically the unnecessary complexity of the character import and animation system destroyed what little motivation we had left.  < same here. totally too hard to import anything, even statics!

 

. . .   not interested in becoming a developer or a scripting modder, so this stuff really is throwing you in the deep end, so to speak. < yeah, exactly, although i'm not averse to looking at script and/or dealing with the Logic.  i did all the Gameplay logic for a JO thing in CE3, on paper, but could never get my head around how to actually script it.

 

In these kinds of cases you can feel fine with just hacking together whatever you manage as a placeholder, then find someone who is proficient at scripting to give you a hand with that side of things down the road. :)   < indeed. much respect and appreciation for those willing to lend a helping hand (looks at brother(programmer&PythonGuru)).

 

That's exactly right, you want to mod and do level design, so honestly just don't worry about the scripting stuff. That being said, a lot of the map related stuff goes through blueprints, so they are good to become familiar with anyway  < i know. i do want to learn to some level (i've only ever dealt with "Node" editing in Lightwave3D, and only skimmed the surface there) and i know this sort of editing/creation can be quite powerful.

 

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