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Tartantyco

Universal Logistical System

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UNIVERSAL LOGISTICAL SYSTEM

(Previously RSBB, now more streamlined)

 

The purpose of the Universal Logistical System is to give teams the tools and ability to shape the battlefield, and creates varied and emergent gameplay that ensures that no match is ever the same.

 

Resources

Two resource types exist, one of which is derived from the other.

 

Supplies is the main resource, and is an infinite resource that is dispensed from a faction’s Main Base. It is used for construction, rearming vehicles, repairing, and spawning.

 

Ammunition can either be converted from Supplies(1:1 ratio), or a player can spawn with Ammunition Bags. It is used for rearming infantry weapons and weapons emplacements. It cannot be converted back to Supplies.

 

The only primary source of these resources is at Resource Extraction Points(REPs), located at Main Bases. Logistical vehicles can interact with these to extract Supplies for transport to other parts of the map. Other vehicles and players can only extract Ammunition from these points, either to rearm or to transport. The quantity of Supplies or Ammunition that can be carried depends on the vehicle.

 

Logistics

Once a vehicle or player is loaded with either Supplies or Ammunition, these can now be transported to other parts of the map for use. They can be deployed in several ways.

 

Supply Dumps can be created by a logistical vehicle carrying Supplies. They have a 50m radius in which structures and emplacements can be constructed, and players can resupply from them. They can hold and be resupplied with both Supplies and Ammunition. If depleted, the foundation remains unless destroyed or deconstructed. Supply Dumps cannot overlap.

 

Supply Crates can be created from a Supply Dump and are man-portable. They can hold only a fraction of the Supplies a Supply Dump can hold, but allow players to move Supply Dumps to vehicle-inaccessible locations. They have no construction radius, but can be converted into Supply Dumps. Players can resupply from them. If depleted, they disappear from the map.

 

Ammunition Boxes can be created by any vehicle carrying Supplies or Ammunition, and are man-portable. Players can resupply from them. If depleted, they disappear from the map.

 

Ammunition Bags are a piece of player equipment that allows them to carry small amounts of Ammunition to resupply  team members with. Players can either directly apply them to other players, or drop them on the ground for players to resupply from. If depleted, they disappear from the map.

 

(Man-portable crates and boxes can be carried by one player, but reduces their movement speed and disables any equipment use.)

 

(Rearming vehicles depletes Supplies and can only be done from REPs or Vehicle Repair Stations. Ammunition cannot be used.)

 

(Players can interact directly with vehicles carrying Supplies or Ammunition to resupply from them.)

 

Construction

The Supply Dump is the base structure required for any construction. When deployed, Officers can place structures and emplacements within its 50m radius. Construction depletes Supplies from the Supply Dump. Spawning or resupplying on it depletes either Ammunition or Supplies. All structures and emplacements within the Supply Dump’s radius are automatically linked with it and can extract Supplies and Ammunition from it at will through player interaction.

 

Spawning

When a player spawns in on a FOB, they deplete Supplies from the Supply Dump it is linked to. How much they deplete depends on the equipment of the player. If there are not enough Supplies on the Supply Dump, players cannot spawn in on the linked FOB.

 

Rally Points are now a piece of Officer kit equipment that can be dropped and picked up at will. They serve both as spawn points and resupply points for the squad, but can only be re-charged with Supplies. Only one can be active at a time, so if the squad leader resupplies his RP, then any currently deployed RP disappears. Just like a FOB, spawning on a RP depletes resources. A depleted RP disappears from the map.

 

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The system is entirely player-driven, ensuring that teams are rewarded for their teamwork, organization, and logistical skill.

 

FOB placement becomes more sensible. Teams can’t drop magic spawn points behind enemy lines with no regard for supplying them.

 

Freeing construction from the FOB allows teams to use structures and emplacements to their maximum potential. They can now be used in innovative and flexible ways that expand gameplay variety.

 

Logistical vehicles become vital strategic assets that can be targeted to cripple the enemy’s ability to reinforce areas of the map. They also become important to defend and keep alive.


The larger footprint of the Supply Dump dissuades the currently common shrub-FOB style of play.

 

The system is self-balancing. Player get out only what they put in.

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"Teams cant drop Magic spawn points ?"  You been playing SquadCraft or too much Factorio !? 

 

 

Edited by BatSithCrazy

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Does inf spawning at an fob deplete supplies currently? Maybe the current ato supply point gain every second isn't really showing it. I think fobs should automatically gain points to a lower limit say 300 to make logistics more important. You top a base up to 2000 and you'll use up supplies to below 300 and it'll automatically gain back to 300 and no more without supplies added from main.

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10 minutes ago, Major Trouble said:

Does inf spawning at an fob deplete supplies currently? Maybe the current ato supply point gain every second isn't really showing it. I think fobs should automatically gain points to a lower limit say 300 to make logistics more important. You top a base up to 2000 and you'll use up supplies to below 300 and it'll automatically gain back to 300 and no more without supplies added from main.

 

Spawning does not currently cost any resources in Squad.

 

The problem with any kind of auto-points generation is that it undermines the entire purpose of a logistical system. It means you can dump a FOB behind enemy lines and be able to use it without any logistical support. Enemies targeting your supply chain isn't as effective. People end up relying on the auto-generation, which means that people don't bother establishing good logistics.

 

The fundamental basis of the logistical system is that every single resource used on the battlefield originates from the Main Base and is transported there in some form by the players.

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I am sure the Devs have plans to tweak fobs & supply points in the future once people get used to the whole concept of it in a fps game. It's pretty new to me not having played PR and I am sure many others are in the same boat.

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Yeah, we'll have to wait and see what the devs come up with, I'm sure they would like to make the logistical system more of a vital role in this game.

 

It opens it up to more strategical gameplay.

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Basically in this game the special role classes are so overly abundant right now, there is usually only like 1 rifleman in each squad whereas this should be the most common seen class on the battlefield, therefore I would really really love this idea where if the FOB runs out of the special equipment, then the only thing you can spawn as would be a rifleman unless the FOB gets resupplied.

 

Also currently any structures/emplacements just give away the position of the enemy FOB, the minute you see sandbags you know the enemy has a FOB somewhere nearby. So I really like the idea of being able to move around structures/emplacement and place them more freely around the map, not just on the FOB.

 

I also think the FOB placing behind enemy lines is an exploitable problem. In real life you don't have just 30 men covering a whole frontline as that is a maximum in the game, you have even some 300-500 men covering a frontline at the same time and it's much harder to just penetrate through the line and place some magic spawn point for your team to go up behind the enemy lines. In-game this must be somehow simulated to restrict this kind of thing from happening.

Edited by Friesen

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@Tartantyco+1 Good ideas. Should happen. RPs need nerfing badly.

 

Long range engagements mean nothing without advancement toward the enemies position, which is unrealistic. Vehicle insertion only used early game or late game if a squad gets wiped, unrealistic.

 

@Friesen I agree different roles too abundant. Should be made a resource where players actually equip the weapons at the start of the game while waiting in base. With SL permission possibly, like he checks it off or something. Love it.

 

Edited by madcat768

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Good post overall, seems like interesting game mechanics. If I understood correctly, even though the build radius around the supply dump is only 50 meters, players can carry supplies with them if they wish to build something outside of those 50 meters? Have you considered removing the 50 meters hard-limit all together, and perhaps replace it with something like longer shoveling times the further away you are from the supply dump?

 

 

On ‎8‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 2:48 PM, Tartantyco said:

Rally Points are now a piece of Officer kit equipment that can be dropped and picked up at will. They serve both as spawn points and resupply points for the squad, but can only be re-charged with Supplies. Only one can be active at a time, so if the squad leader resupplies his RP, then any currently deployed RP disappears. Just like a FOB, spawning on a RP depletes resources. A depleted RP disappears from the map.

 

 

This is very interesting, it solves certain issues with Squad Leaders having to stay alive all the time in case rally-point is lost and they have to build a new one. And its in tune with the supplies-draining spawning mechanics. Does the enemy just need to get in proximity of the RP for it do disappear? Seems in place to make the rallypoint slightly more "hardy" if losing it means that the whole squad needs to retreat to resupply the rally. Maybe require enemy to be in its proximity for several seconds / require digging / require multiple enemies to be in the zone (similar to current FOB-despawning).


A final question, the whole setup seem to require constant supplies being brought from main and into the battlefield. Is this interesting enough gameplay for people to be doing so actively as prescribed in this post? It will probably be more logistics-intensive than PR was. I dunno if people are that into it. I don't wanna see people being forced to do logistics when they don't really wanna, just because they know it will win them the game.

 

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2 hours ago, plissken said:

Good post overall, seems like interesting game mechanics. If I understood correctly, even though the build radius around the supply dump is only 50 meters, players can carry supplies with them if they wish to build something outside of those 50 meters? Have you considered removing the 50 meters hard-limit all together, and perhaps replace it with something like longer shoveling times the further away you are from the supply dump?

 

 

 

This is very interesting, it solves certain issues with Squad Leaders having to stay alive all the time in case rally-point is lost and they have to build a new one. And its in tune with the supplies-draining spawning mechanics. Does the enemy just need to get in proximity of the RP for it do disappear? Seems in place to make the rallypoint slightly more "hardy" if losing it means that the whole squad needs to retreat to resupply the rally. Maybe require enemy to be in its proximity for several seconds / require digging / require multiple enemies to be in the zone (similar to current FOB-despawning).


A final question, the whole setup seem to require constant supplies being brought from main and into the battlefield. Is this interesting enough gameplay for people to be doing so actively as prescribed in this post? It will probably be more logistics-intensive than PR was. I dunno if people are that into it. I don't wanna see people being forced to do logistics when they don't really wanna, just because they know it will win them the game.

 

You could make it so it's change each run between a firwteam on fob or squads so each nitbthe sl would run the logistic with sl droping fob and fob down

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1 hour ago, plissken said:

Good post overall, seems like interesting game mechanics. If I understood correctly, even though the build radius around the supply dump is only 50 meters, players can carry supplies with them if they wish to build something outside of those 50 meters? Have you considered removing the 50 meters hard-limit all together, and perhaps replace it with something like longer shoveling times the further away you are from the supply dump?

 

The general idea was that you wouldn't have too many emplacements tied to the same Supply Dump, so you could but the HAB at one Supply Dump and set up another Supply Dump nearby with a Repair Station, ammunition, and various emplacements so that consuming resources with those emplacements wouldn't interfere with HAB spawning. Want a bigger build zone? Place another Supply Dump. You can quickly transfer resources between the two if necessary due to the short distances.

 

Anyways, increasing the build radius would probably work fine. Not the biggest of deals.

 

1 hour ago, plissken said:

A final question, the whole setup seem to require constant supplies being brought from main and into the battlefield. Is this interesting enough gameplay for people to be doing so actively as prescribed in this post? It will probably be more logistics-intensive than PR was. I dunno if people are that into it. I don't wanna see people being forced to do logistics when they don't really wanna, just because they know it will win them the game.

 

There's always someone who's into it. I spent entire matches in PR just driving logistics around. Other people spent entire matches transporting people. People already do constant supply runs for mortars in Squad. I honestly don't think it would be a problem at all. Regardless, it's just a matter of adjusting the emplacement resource consumption and vehicle resource carrying capacity. The most important aspect of this is the physical transportation requirement that gives more logical placement(I can't spam five repair/rearm FOBs in the rear anymore :( ). 

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13 minutes ago, Tartantyco said:

There's always someone who's into it. I spent entire matches in PR just driving logistics around. Other people spent entire matches transporting people. People already do constant supply runs for mortars in Squad. I honestly don't think it would be a problem at all. Regardless, it's just a matter of adjusting the emplacement resource consumption and vehicle resource carrying capacity. The most important aspect of this is the physical transportation requirement that gives more logical placement(I can't spam five repair/rearm FOBs in the rear anymore :( ). 

 

From my experience:

 

There is a very small number of players who volunteer for multiple logi runs for the duration of the match. 

Some would only do a single or 2 runs at most just to get urgent supplies.

Most don't like to do it at all.

 

Just yesterday I was Squad Leading and asked my squad mates to pick a logi from main to supply an urgent FOB. They rose to the occasion, great! I told them what safe route to take but instead drove straight into the hornets nest and got the logi blown up with full supplies... :(

 

I wish there was a map system in place that allows squad leaders to draw with a virtual pencil what route/direction vehicles and personnel should approach a location for the entire squad to see.

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@CptDirty That's because you picked people who joined an infantry squad to do logistics. I never have any trouble getting someone to do constant logistics if I'm running a Mortar squad. I rarely have any issues when running Infantry either, for that matter. I'm sure that's server dependent.

 

If you have a need for constant logistics and the ability to run dedicated logistics, you will always have people willing to do it.

 

As for drawing on maps, we had that at the start of the alpha, but it was a bit buggy and everyone drew dicks. I'm sure we'll see it if they introduce multi-layer maps(Squad, team, etc.)

Edited by Tartantyco

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41 minutes ago, Tartantyco said:

@CptDirty That's because you picked people who joined an infantry squad to do logistics. I never have any trouble getting someone to do constant logistics if I'm running a Mortar squad. I rarely have any issues when running Infantry either, for that matter. I'm sure that's server dependent.

 

If you have a need for constant logistics and the ability to run dedicated logistics, you will always have people willing to do it.

 

As for drawing on maps, we had that at the start of the alpha, but it was a bit buggy and everyone drew dicks. I'm sure we'll see it if they introduce multi-year maps(Squad, team, etc.)

Multi year maps could you explain more?

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9 minutes ago, Dls Samuel said:

Multi year maps could you explain more?

 

Autocorrected. Multi-layer.

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Great idea I like the depth. Personally I would keep everything the same except  I would like the ability to create supply dumps.  SL can deploy 3 different sized supply zones. 4mx4m 16mx16m 32mx32.  The logitrucks can dump a maximum of 2000 on the 4x4 - 8000 on the 16x16 and 16000 on the 32x32.  Infantry can move 500 in ammo sized crate which you visibly see yourself moving and must put it down to unleash weapon if there is ammo in the crate it can be used immediately but construction must be in radio range.

 

  The supply zones itself  would visibly drop crates depending on the amount there so enemy can see it building up and attack it. And sl can see resource values on them from map view.

 

This means that on the larger maps access to supplies doesn't have to be a 10minute round trip ... as one logitrucks can supply the forward dump and another logitruck + smaller vehicles (mrap techies) + infantry can support multiple bases.

 

 

 

 

 

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@Tartantyco

Quote

Rally Points are now a piece of Officer kit equipment that can be dropped and picked up at will. They serve both as spawn points and resupply points for the squad, but can only be re-charged with Supplies. Only one can be active at a time, so if the squad leader resupplies his RP, then any currently deployed RP disappears. Just like a FOB, spawning on a RP depletes resources. A depleted RP disappears from the map.

 I assume thered be a longer timer to respawn each time the rally gets picked-up or placed somewhere new, to disencourage very frequent movement of it, or?

Also, isnt there a certain incentive here for SL to just stay back and keep the rally alive, instead of joining his squad in battle?

How would you feel about letting any squad mate carry the rally point, if SL approves?

What would you think about needing to shovel the rally to take it down / remain in its proximity over time, ie just like how a fob works, but obviously the rally would have less 'HP'? Then you give it a small sound cue like the fob has, so it cant be hidden in ninja-spots.


All of these could be considered 'buffs' for the rally. I think the rally is absolutely key to for squad cohesion, and should be the main spawn point used. When FOB becomes the main spawn point for a team, then squad cohesion suffers, as we have seen in Squad so far, and especially in Post Scriptum. The FOB / supply dump should be crucial for the squads success, but not be used as the main spawn point, but instead as a 'reset' point for the squad to spawn from and ressupply from.

Also curious what you think of the wave spawning system, aswell as how fob spawns should be different from rally spawns other than being team-wide and squad-wide spawns, respectively.

Edited by plissken

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On 16.10.2018 at 4:10 PM, plissken said:

 I assume thered be a longer timer to respawn each time the rally gets picked-up or placed somewhere new, to disencourage very frequent movement of it, or?

No, the main limitation of the RP would be the supply requirement. Frequent movement would, if anything, adversely affect spawning ability because if you don't go back to pick up your old RP and just plop down a new one, those supplies on the old RP would just disappear.

 

On 16.10.2018 at 4:10 PM, plissken said:

Also, isnt there a certain incentive here for SL to just stay back and keep the rally alive, instead of joining his squad in battle?

I'm not sure where you get that from. The RP isn't kept alive by virtue of the SL staying alive.

 

On 16.10.2018 at 4:10 PM, plissken said:

All of these could be considered 'buffs' for the rally. I think the rally is absolutely key to for squad cohesion, and should be the main spawn point used. When FOB becomes the main spawn point for a team, then squad cohesion suffers, as we have seen in Squad so far, and especially in Post Scriptum. The FOB / supply dump should be crucial for the squads success, but not be used as the main spawn point, but instead as a 'reset' point for the squad to spawn from and ressupply from.

I disagree. The RP is currently a source of squad cohesion simply because it is too powerful a spawn and the FOBs ticket cost and placement restrictions, leading to teams not relying on substantial FOB networks. The RP also undermines use of transport, so squads just fight in localized spots on the map simply because that is where their RP is.

 

The potency and simplicity of the RP means teams don't invest in other alternatives, which means that when squads lose their RPs, they also lose squad cohesion. The solution is not to buff or maintain current RP potency, but to reduce it so that teams will have to rely on other alternatives. When that happens, gameplay variety will increase as more deployment options become available to the teams.

 

On 16.10.2018 at 4:10 PM, plissken said:

Also curious what you think of the wave spawning system, aswell as how fob spawns should be different from rally spawns other than being team-wide and squad-wide spawns, respectively.

Wave spawning systems are shit, no matter the context.

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Not to mention how quickly any squad that currently loses it's RP can make the entire team fall apart. I feel like RP's should be able to be placed only within a certain amount of distance from either a friendly FOB or flag, not too close to the current objective. I'd personally also like to see the time between being able to place em increased, and the radius at which they get overrun increased. The main base should remain an important spawn throughout the entire match, promote usage of transports (transport squad?) FOBs would be the main forward spawns, but without supply runs from main they should be near useless.

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I love the OPs idea. Just that I dont see it happening with 70+/- players severs. The number of men it requires to keep a fob running would be too big in proportion. With 100+ players I think its a good idea. With some tweeking about how many supply points it costs to spawn and that´s it. I like what it represents and what it implies.

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15 minutes ago, Nightingale87 said:

I love the OPs idea. Just that I dont see it happening with 70+/- players severs. The number of men it requires to keep a fob running would be too big in proportion. With 100+ players I think its a good idea. With some tweeking about how many supply points it costs to spawn and that´s it. I like what it represents and what it implies.

It really isn't a problem. That is literally just a question of deciding the spawn costs, the emplacement costs, and the vehicle capacity costs.

 

If spawning cost 1 supply, a supply dump could hold 100,000 supplies, and a logi truck could carry 10,000 supplies, it would obviously be ridiculously easy to maintain supply.

Conversely, if spawning cost 200 supplies, supply dumps could hold 400 supplies, and logi trucks could carry 5 supplies, it would be a practical impossibility.

 

It's just a matter of finding a good balance somewhere in the middle, which is pretty simple. And it naturally adjusts depending on player count. Fewer players means less spawning means lower supply requirements means less people needed to maintain supply.

 

This system also allows teams to invest in logistics based on playstyle. One team may rely heavily on spawn FOBs to deploy their forces, placing multiple around the map. Another team may instead rely on vehicle transport for deploying their forces, instead focusing on vehicle supply stations and using few spawn FOBs. Some may a few big and well-supplied FOBs, others may have many FOBs with fewer supplies. It's an emergent system that allows for dynamic and varied gameplay, ultimately resulting in greater replayability and ultimately lifespan for the game.

 

35 minutes ago, Guan_Yu007 said:

I feel like RP's should be able to be placed only within a certain amount of distance from either a friendly FOB or flag, not too close to the current objective. I'd personally also like to see the time between being able to place em increased, and the radius at which they get overrun increased.

That just introduces a series of system-specific restrictions that further increase the learning curve of the game. The RP should be restricted from its current form, but you want to avoid complicating it. The PR system of the rally being a 1 minute thing on a 10 minute debuff is a pretty simple and direct method that could work just fine as well, I just think that's too divorced from the rest of the logistics in the game, with players popping out of the ground with no supply chain to support that. My suggestion basically just makes the RP into a FOB for the squad, with greater placement ease. If you understand the FOB system, you understand the RP system, and vice versa.

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Tartantyco I've always loved all of your ideas and from a logical point of view they seem like they would work brilliantly but as we've seen over the evolution of the game it's had to be dumbed down on numerous levels to not only appeal to the "unwashed masses" so to speak but also not be so complicated that they can't understand it. Honestly, during the entire duration of v11 most people are still playing the matches like it's still v9.

 

Now how do you expect them to actually grasp the heavy shit you're laying out? I mean seriously we've got people running over to fobs that have just been dropped and start shoveling them away.

Edited by Zylfrax791

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3 hours ago, Zylfrax791 said:

Tartantyco I've always loved all of your ideas and from a logical point of view they seem like they would work brilliantly but as we've seen over the evolution of the game it's had to be dumbed down on numerous levels to not only appeal to the "unwashed masses" so to speak but also not be so complicated that they can't understand it. Honestly, during the entire duration of v11 most people are still playing the matches like it's still v9.

 

Now how do you expect them to actually grasp the heavy shit you're laying out? I mean seriously we've got people running over to fobs that have just been dropped and start shoveling them away.

Getting pretty tired of this argument. This isn't complicated. It's simpler than what is in the game right now, and it's already being implemented to a substantial degree. And you get the player base you design the game for, not the other way around.

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There are other arguments that suggest that clans and specifc backers have a greater  influence on the direction of the game design so why does it feel like sometimes the game is getting dumber...?

 

I personally dont think the idea is to overly complicated, if you are going to have FOBS  and supply lines then why not make them so they work like that, a step in the right direction is the ammo and ammo bags in v12..  I would liked to have seen the rallies be the ammo and medic supplies themselves

 

 

Edited by embecmom

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