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Croaker

Kicked for Refusing to Suicide

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Not sure about you guys but It gets tiring when SLs insist on perpetuating "gamey" tactics like this just to meet the ends of a round.

 

Scenario: My squad goes to defend cap, everyone dies except me, other squad moves in and successfully takes cap back with me while my squad respawns and prepares to back cap.

(400 meters from new offensive flag, Chora)

SL: "You do know we need you on the frontline, are you new to this game or something?"

Me: "Yeah sorry but I survived at the defend flag, i'm working my way over"

SL:  "You do realize that the optics rifleman is a key part of any squad?"

Me "YEAH, I'm moving to cap, I just don't believe in wasting tickets and killing myself to get there faster"  

*Kicked from squad*

(Not sure it would have been faster anyways as I got to cap a minute or two after I got kicked :P)


SLs need to understand that this tactic should not be viable not on a server to server basis but through game mechanics (i.e. respawn at main base or increased suicide respawn time from status quo) IMO. When I hop on to play a round or two on the new update I don't want to be hounded for refusing to abuse/exploit the game. I get that this isn't a simulator (and I appreciate that) but I don't think that suicide should be a viable tactic in all but the most dire situations or for resolving unworkable issues (stuck in objects, weapon missing etc.)

 

Edited by Croaker
Add emphasis to main point

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1 hour ago, Croaker said:

Not sure about you guys but It gets tiring when SLs insist on perpetuating "gamey" tactics like this just to meet the ends of a round.

 

Scenario: My squad goes to defend cap, everyone dies except me, other squad moves in and successfully takes cap back with me while my squad respawns and prepares to back cap.

(400 meters from new offensive flag, Chora)

SL: "You do know we need you on the frontline, are you new to this game or something?"

Me: "Yeah sorry but I survived at the defend flag, i'm working my way over"

SL:  "You do realize that the optics rifleman is a key part of any squad?"

Me "YEAH, I'm moving to cap, I just don't believe in wasting tickets and killing myself to get there faster"  

*Kicked from squad*

(Not sure it would have been faster anyways as I got to cap a minute or two after I got kicked :P)


SLs need to understand that this tactic should not be viable not on a server to server basis but through game mechanics IMO. When I hop on to play a round or two on the new update I don't want to be hounded for refusing to abuse/exploit the game. I get that this isn't a simulator (and I appreciate that) but I don't think that suicide should be a viable tactic in all but the most dire situations or for resolving unworkable issues (stuck in objects, weapon missing etc.)

 

 

Totally agree with you, SLs need to have some understanding of other players situations. Plus ordering someone to suicide shouldn't be a thing at all, completely breaks immersion as well as making the SL look like a bit of a D**k. 

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Agreed...Maybe the SL was butthurt due to you being the last man standing.

And you being kicked without any warning,kind of sumsup on what type of chap he really is.

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Welcome there buddy.

That SL was moron .... good squad leader will not do that. Keep playin and good luck at another squad leader :)

Iam at your side. But we have hard times now....and for somebody new like you it has to be total chaos now. 

Good work that you survived that battle. Its much valuable than run and gun die style. 

See you at field. 

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Shitty situation but best taken up with server admins. Also a good reason to be selective about the servers you join and even more about the squad to join. There are a lot of terrible and clueless squad leaders out there, especially after the update

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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2 minutes ago, alex.sweedensniiperr said:

Tell me this...

 

1. How many times has this happend to you?

2. Do you have a microphone?

@alex.sweedensniiperr

 

1. I've been kicked twice and definitely reprimanded more than that (in the course of several months ofc, so its relative)

2. Yeah, I was actively communicating with SL that I was moving up, and I've been playing since steam release with a mic, so I hope it works ;)

 

The problem lies in the fact that SLs sometimes want things faster than the game "should" allow them to get them. This doesn't apply to just suicide, in the new update i've had SLs wanting transports APCs and humvees to drive right into the enemy cap for the sake of speed. I just feel that the meta has to be established for squads to value tickets and individual lives rather than just pushing points indiscriminately (and I trust that the devs are working on it, it's just a bit frustrating sometimes :]).

 

This is just a open appeal to SLs (who I know assume a large job) to try and establish a status quo that encourages ticket conservation and minimal respawns. I know it might be difficult in certain situations to do so, but I am confident it will lead to the Squad that we all want to play if we can encourage this kind of gameplay.

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It only happened to me once, a SL (on a public match and I never knew the guy before etc) said 'everyone suicide and spawn down south, it's quicker.'

 

And he was right, it would be.

 

I said, no way you guys crack on but i'm not doing it.

 

Some did, some didn't, but I could tell the SL was annoyed with me, and simply didn't get why I wouldn't do it. (to me it's like glitching thru a wall to see etc).

 

I can't recall it ever being asked in our clan, it may happen but it's not a thing for me.

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1 hour ago, Croaker said:

 

This is just a open appeal to SLs (who I know assume a large job) to try and establish a status quo that encourages ticket conservation and minimal respawns. I know it might be difficult in certain situations to do so, but I am confident it will lead to the Squad that we all want to play if we can encourage this kind of gameplay.

 

Hey Croaker, SL here with some good input you might want to read. I personally know the guy who kicked you, he's not kick crazy but like me he doesn't have a tolerance for inefficient game play. The unfortunate truth is, is that flag captures and defenses are often pulled off by 1-3 guy margin if both sides are playing as hard as they can and having one to two guys in transit for upwards of 2 minutes isn't something you can afford as a squad lead. It may break your immursion, but it probably broke his immuhrsion when he lost the game because someone would rather spend upwards of 2 minutes walking back to a point that they could be useful at, and then lost because of it.

 

I've lost many games where an offence on Train Station at Fool's Road didn't push through fast enough and the enemy neutralised Fortress and then to not break their immursion they made the 5 minute long Trek back to our side of the map. We lost because we had 9 people outside of anything useful for too long and sometimes in tight fights you can't afford to be down 9 men that long. 

 

Also the tickets you want to conserve so much. Compare the 9 tickets a squad loses for having to suicide to get back into position, compare that to how many tickets you lose when your flag defense fails due to lack of manpower. 

Edited by Bill Nye

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2 minutes ago, Bill Nye said:

 

Hey Croaker, SL here with some good input you might want to read. I personally know the guy who kicked you, he's not kick crazy but like me he doesn't have a tolerance for inefficient game play. The unfortunate truth is, is that flag captures and defenses are pulled off by 1-3 guys if both sides are playing as hard as they can and having one to two guys in transit for upwards of 2 minutes isn't something you can afford as a squad lead. It may break your immursion, but it probably broke his immuhrsion when he lost the game because someone would rather spend upwards of 2 minutes walking back to a point that they could be useful at, and then lost because of it.

 

I've lost many games where an offence on Train Station at Fool's Road didn't push through fast enough and the enemy neutralised Fortress and then to not break their immursion they made the 5 minute long Trek back to our side of the map. We lost because we had 9 people outside of anything useful for too long and sometimes in tight fights you can't afford to be down 9 men that long. 

 

Also the tickets you want to conserve so much. Compare the 9 tickets a team loses for having to suicide to get back into position, compare that to how many tickets you lose when your flag defense fails due to lack of manpower. 

 

I get that it wins games, and that it is definitely more efficient in some cases, but I would argue that the developers need to make it not viable for these kinds of tactics to manifest. I think everyone can agree that suicide should not be used as a means of transportation and if it wasn't an option in the situations that you speak of strategies would obviously be adapted to deal with them.

 

The truth simply is suicide should not be a gameplay mechanic, but rather a fix for bugs. Distance and positioning are part of the game, and if it takes a soldier a couple extra minutes to move up to the squad because he DID HIS JOB AND SURVIVED A FIREFIGHT, so be it.

 

Kindly tell your friend that what he did (kicking me without notice after I explained my reasoning, and as I was moving up per his orders) is only going to hurt the community and growth of this game in the long term, as well as discourage new players to hold spawns and really value every respawn. What I was attempting to do was perfectly logical and nearly everyone can agree that it is not inherently bad to play the game the way it's designed to be played (i.e. not dying to save extra 2 minutes, not like my being there as a singular soldier was going to miraculously change the round.) We are trying to build a community here, and whether he gets his immersive round win or not is irrelevant if it includes forcing other players to exploit the game and kicking those who refuse.

 

The point is the mechanics of suicide need to be changed so that it is not used in this exploitative manner, and furthermore what SL did was rude and does not set a good example for other players and SLs to follow, whether more efficient or not, end of story.

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Actually,  with the current system in the game

 

-> slow moving characters

-> vehicles

-> large scale maps

-> more tickets

 

I think an order to suicide in this game if you're on the other side of the map in order to spawn on the current objective on the other side of the map is more efficient.

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2 minutes ago, Socrates said:

Actually,  with the current system in the game

 

-> slow moving characters

-> vehicles

-> large scale maps

-> more tickets

 

I think an order to suicide in this game if you're on the other side of the map in order to spawn on the current objective on the other side of the map is more efficient.

 

I'm not arguing that it isn't efficent, I'm arguing that it really shouldn't be used in all but the most extreme situations (i.e. not if you are literally 2 minutes away at one flag behind, the situation that I explained :/), and that the devs should make sure that it is not more efficient unless these extreme criteria are met in the first place. 

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I've never operated under the assumption the Suicide mechanic will stay forever in its current iteration. I too hope that it gets 'nerfed' in some way if at all possible, or just removed.

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I would never do a suicide just to get to an objective faster. If we are getting back capped or what ever, then we had planned something wrong or we are not using vehicles incorrectly (not there when we need them). In these cases, we deserve to lose the match.

 

In my book, the only "valid" causes for suicide are game glitches like getting stuck, losing my gun (I have had my thumb fire bullets one time), gun not reloading even with full magazines available and so on.

Edited by DeckGunner

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5 minutes ago, s0tic said:

RIP

 

This is the guy who kicked me recently for doing this in the example I stated. 

 

I would contend that his relevant contribution and helpful mannerism is truly indicative of the leadership this game is fostering in its community. Stand up SLs like these are what we need to really encourage new members to actively discuss and talk about issues.  Glad to see these clan members really stepping up to help newer players out and help the game grow!

 

Kicking players without reason and ignoring their inquiry for explanation is a GREAT way to keep up the positive spirit, and as we all know you gotta make sure to make a derisive comment in their thread just for good measure, cause who cares about these newbies? I say we close sales of Squad just so us veterans can REALLY play the game without these tools.

 

Keep up the good work buddy!

 

/sarcasm 

9_9

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While I do not inherently support the decisions made by @s0tic in this particular instance. Squad leaders are allowed to remove anyone, for any reason, from their squad. 

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19 minutes ago, Odin said:

While I do not inherently support the decisions made by @s0tic in this particular instance. Squad leaders are allowed to remove anyone, for any reason, from their squad. 

 

Yeah the kicking is one thing, and it's up to servers and players to deal with for sure,  but I think the suicide mechanic as a whole just needs tweaking to be less viable to be used in this manner, discouraging squads and SLs to use it in this way. That's why I didn't mention the player in the first place, the focus is on the suicide mechanic and its larger meta implications rather than the individual case.

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Just now, Croaker said:

 

Yeah the kicking is one thing, and it's up to servers and players to deal with for sure,  but I think the suicide mechanic as a whole just needs tweaking to be less viable to be used in this manner, discouraging squads and SLs to use it in this way. That's why I didn't mention the player in the first place, the focus is on the suicide mechanic and its larger meta implications rather than the individual case.

 

I can agree with that. I think the suicide mechanic should be tweaked. Although, that is not currently a priority for us, and also not my call. That is something that is more up to someone like SgtRoss as a game designer rather than a programmer like me. 

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When this game is done, suicide will never be a preferable option to staying alive.

 

I get why people do it, but it is a bad habit to get in to for the long haul.

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6 minutes ago, Croaker said:

 

Yeah the kicking is one thing, and it's up to servers and players to deal with for sure,  but I think the suicide mechanic as a whole just needs tweaking to be less viable to be used in this manner, discouraging squads and SLs to use it in this way. That's why I didn't mention the player in the first place, the focus is on the suicide mechanic and its larger meta implications rather than the individual case.

Luckily with vehicles now in the game, out of position squads can quickly recall back to defense flags if they kept their initial vehicles alive. However prior to that, the fastest way to get back into the fight was to "commit sodoku" and spawn at the nearest allied FoB, of course I don't think suiciding to reposition is the most fun gameplay mechanic but it was the most effective and if you were in a tight game and wanted to pull it back, that's what you did, you committed suicide and waited the 60s penalty.

 

Personally when i'd request it, I'd say "Commit suicide if you want otherwise you're facing a 5 minute walk and you'll be bored AF" I'll always strive to do the most effective option to not lose the game and up until vehicles were released there was a lot of the time that it came down to it.

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I'm glad we've had DEV's input on this topic & suicide will be punished in some sort.So those who like using suicide as a warping tool,enjoy while you can.

Beam me up Scotty!. :D

 

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I'm also kicking squaddies that aren't following orders. I always give a clear warning before I boot them I'm aware about the suicide exploit but never used myself. Should force player to spawn in main base or make 30sec debuff timer on each suicide taken in the party.

Edited by Heradon

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Actually, only spawning on the main base might be the best way of "nerfing" the suicide function.

Edited by Dennisz125

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