Socrates

Your Thoughts on the 3 People Vehicle Claim System

133 posts in this topic

vehicles are abandoned because people didnt learn to use them good at the moment. Give the meta game time to evolve and develop. Give the Squadleads time to integrate the motorized forces in ther playstyle. 

 

I try to use as much of the vehicles i can every round i play. Humvee Squas, mechanized Infantery with BTR, Logistic Squad. 

Its just tough to learn how the vehicles play out, how to use them properly, how to preserve them, and what they are capable of. In addition to that, its a whole different story to command them as SL. It took me quite a while to get a good commanding style for an Infantery Squad. Now there is suddenly a Cars with Guns u can use. Which u have to protect, let your infantery move with them. Its all a matter of training, adaption and meta game evolving. 

Be patient, play more hours, let the good SLs do their Job and dont join the 3 man random vehicle Squad. 

 

 

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Yea i think the 3 people claim is good but when theres no fob and all the squads are full and 2 players makes a new squad. Then its a long walk or can we claim a vehicle with blue members near?  Do we need to wait until someone maybe joins or walk. Yea we can ask for ride but if we join middle game no ones coming. Im not complaining the system is good but sometimes this can happen. I know maybe BTR would need more crew members like commander for the vehicle but for example technical doesnt. These situation are random and dont happen all the time and for good game experience need to choose the server real carefully :D 

Edited by Frosty2

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Given that I'm used to the PR method of 'get out of the car or you'll get kicked / banned for repeat offenders', the claiming system feels rigid and awful.

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5 hours ago, IrOnTaXi said:

 

 

If you can't organize 3 people as an SL then I am not sure I can help you. 

 

 

Some people will never want to co-operate, it's a video game.

 

It's the culture of the game community itself that keeps visits from such people brief (that and readily available admins), and that develops over time as a social norm, just as it did in PR. My gut feeling is that the claiming system as it is will only hinder the emergence of that aspect.

Edited by Barks_Internally

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If some people need an artificial system to be kept from lonewolfing, they shouldn't be playing in the first place. This isn't going to replace manual moderation by local admins, but I guess it works for now in Squad's chaotic state. Imho it'd be enough if only Squadleaders could claim/approve vehicles, so that you only have to watch out for rogue SLs, but the minimum player count is going to be counterproductive in the long run.

Edited by mezzokoko

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Its fine, it prevents idiots from just driving off alone and wasting a vehicle.

We just have to get used to when respawn at base to get new vehicles to the frontline.

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I like the Idea of the claiming system - problem is still that ppl. do not understand it, since they do not read the v7 changelog/release notes,

which is also a big problem since most players are not aware of the ticket penalty of the vehicles being destroyed.

 

Not to forget that there a still some players abusing the vehicles (especially the supply truck) as a "casual Battlefield"  transport and dropping it of at the frontline, getting it destroyed.

 

Also I have been several times teamkilled by claiming a technical with my squad and some other "squad" not liking it and wanting it for themselves.

 

But oh well...this is a playerside problem and not about the claiming system....

 

I think the Idea with 2 ppl claiming a HMVEE would be great, since they could do taxi runs as well.

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2 minutes ago, Logisticz said:

they do not read the v7 changelog/release notes

 

Yessir can confirm that for ~70% of playerbase.

Evey new game people dont get it to start/claim a vehicle and i gotta tell them.

Yesterday I was in a squad, people didnt know how claiming works, SL didnt know how approving a claim works.

Costs so much time.

Edited by Pvt.Chill

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I feel two is a better number. Expecting a full third of the squad to go back to main to pickup a vehicle is just one person too costly and difficult to coordinate. Especially for remote claiming, two makes everything way easier. One recent game had two squad elements trying to each get trucks, and the end result was that I ended up switching to the other squad so they could claim, before I and another switched back so we could claim. A big waste of time, that could have been easily avoided under a different system.

 

I second the idea that the more valuable the asset should require more dudes to claim, with two for technicals and humvees, three for BTRs, and maybe more for heavier vehicles. I understand the desire to have three as the basis for squad claiming, but once you've got at least three people in the squad, it should only take two to claim vehicles remotely. 

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I understand it for larger vehicles like APC's. They shouldn't just be used for fire support like in PR. I think it should be a 2-man rule for humvees and technicals (especially technicals), because often you want to pick up your squad or provide fire support for them. Debatable.

 

What bothers me most is the 3 person rule for trucks and logistics trucks. Sometimes I really want to help my guys who have built a forward base but we have to have 2 guys kill themselves because you need 3 people to get supplies to where you need them. That means 2 people doing nothing for a supply run. I really feel it should only be 1 person for the supply truck. Very often I'm in a squad that's cooperating properly but we have to have squad members waiting at spawn for someone to die and give up because we NEED the fob active. It's detrimental to teamwork, I think. 

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What about a tweak where a blueberry can get in and use a claimed vehicle, but it notifies the SL and he gets a prompt where he can kick them out. It lets abandoned vehicles still have use when the owning squad was wiped and cant get to it while still preventing vehicle stealing.

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33 minutes ago, Calculon said:

I understand it for larger vehicles like APC's. They shouldn't just be used for fire support like in PR. I think it should be a 2-man rule for humvees and technicals (especially technicals), because often you want to pick up your squad or provide fire support for them. Debatable.

 

What bothers me most is the 3 person rule for trucks and logistics trucks. Sometimes I really want to help my guys who have built a forward base but we have to have 2 guys kill themselves because you need 3 people to get supplies to where you need them. That means 2 people doing nothing for a supply run. I really feel it should only be 1 person for the supply truck. Very often I'm in a squad that's cooperating properly but we have to have squad members waiting at spawn for someone to die and give up because we NEED the fob active. It's detrimental to teamwork, I think. 

 

It only take 5 minutes(?) for a fob to be active without supplies.  It's not that detrimental to operations especially when you have a rally to fallback to.  If your team is really always in need of logistics or transport then create a trans/logi squad and be the people who supply on demand.

 

[edit]  As for the extra men.  This goes back to another thread of abandoned vehicles.  Having 3 lets you reclaim abandoned vehicles and having enough people to drive both back to main on your runs.  Also, ask yourself what happens when you do run into enemy and the driver gets killed? (abandoned vehicle unless you have more people with you)

 

The latter part of getting somewhere and putting a fob but having to suicide to get back to main for supplies is a failure of the squad & team, not the game.  Plan beforehand on fob locations, leave main with what you need or have a logistics squad or transport squad and request transport or supplies.

 

I believe devs have already said that they are sticking with 3.  So there is really no reason to debate this.

Edited by Dankicity

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Not really too familiar with it, game has suddenly started crashing since the hotfix yesterday, and with the awful server browser I find it a pain to even get into a game to the point where it puts me off playing.


Anyway, in regards to the vehicles. It seems overly complicated and faffy in regards to how vehicles are claimed, perhaps I just don't know enough about the system yet, and perhaps it will change in the future. Haven't really been following the dev notes and what not, played PR on and off, so I'm not sure if we're getting a commander role, but giving the commander the ability to lock/unlock vehicles through his map would be alot better.

 

He'd be able to assign squads their vehicles at the start of the match (vehicle would get a little number next to it to denote who it's claimed by, if by anyone. Not claimed = usable by anyone). This assignment would be persistent through vehicle respawns, meaning squad  1 loses their APC, it will still be assigned to them when it respawns.

 

If SQ1 dismounts from their transport truck and leaves it in a ditch somewhere, and another squad stumbles upon it, they'll just be able to request that command transfer ownership. Would fix the faffing on with needing half your squad to somehow be within a magical circle to claim something, and needing to leave squad members inside vehicles to prevent rambo SQLs from stealing them (admittedly this isn't really an issue as the only vehicles that would be left disembarked are transport trucks which aren't really extremely important, APCs, etc. would always be manned)

 

Maybe have some nice UI elements besides the squad roster to show which vehicles are assigned to which squads, which are in the unlocked pool, etc, I don't know.

 

Also, they really need to fix the spawn points for vehicles, having them all spawn in a column is a massive pain, especially on the smaller maps like the Afghan heroine field ones, where logi trucks can't get within resupplying range because of the respawning vehicles blocking the narrow, one-way roads, but that's an issue for another thread.

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I've played v7 for quite many hours now and i gotta say, that it still needs some work. Its going into the right direction though.

 

First, often mentioned and imo a big problem: When you need a supplytruck from the base, you need 3 ppl there. Is annoying and frustrating. Most ppl dont really want to do the task to go back to base and get a truck (if a truck was destroyed at the frontlines for example). That was already a problem in PR. Now there need to be 3 people at base, all of them doing the annoying work.

Its not just annoying, it also binds manpower to a truck, that needs (depending on the map) a long time to reach its goal.

 

Secondly: at the beginning of a round, while everyone is running around like headless chickens, its tedious to claim 1, not to mention 2 vehicles.

 

And dont just justify all that with "Oh, then the SL is doing is job wrong" or "Then the team communication must improve".

In my opinion the system is a bit flawed when it comes to useability.

 

But i dont have any idea how to properly improve it =P

 

Greetings.

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The oroblem with needing X amount of people near a vehicle to claim it is that the cost associated with doing so is usually not justified.

 

The organizational challenge of getting 3 people to a vehicle is not difficult. The problem is that other stuff is going on on the battlefield, and you have to prioritize all of these things.

 

Vehicle reclamation doesn't happen in a vacuum. Peeling off three guys from your infantry squad to go pick up an abandoned vehicle, and consequently risking losing your position, not being able to effectively reinforce a defensive objective, or having to postpone an assault is rarely worth it.

 

Taking your entire 3-man logistics squad to reclaim an abandoned vehicle instead of building FOBs and support facilities, and supplying other FOBs, is rarely worth it.

 

It's an issue of cost, not organization.

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I don't really like the system as it shoehorns vehicles in to being integrated with 9 man squads, rather than allowing specialised infantry squads to act being supported by transport/logistics as was common in Project reality. Forcing a single style of asset integration means more rounds where teams fail to organise themselves logistically, and means that pure infantry squads are relatively rare.

 

The style of logistics/transportation that is shoehorned in to Squad at the moment forces people to choose between operating at partial strength, or abandoning vehicles. Meanwhile, the player requirement means that any attempt to operate a pure logistics squad will be too player intensive to be beneficial to the team.

 

 

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On 8/9/2016 at 11:56 AM, Barks_Internally said:

Given that I'm used to the PR method of 'get out of the car or you'll get kicked / banned for repeat offenders', the claiming system feels rigid and awful.

 

That's funny as I think the PR method sounds rigid and awful.

 

On 8/9/2016 at 11:22 PM, Kerri said:

If SQ1 dismounts from their transport truck and leaves it in a ditch somewhere, and another squad stumbles upon it, they'll just be able to request that command transfer ownership.

 

If this happens you don't have to request a commander to be able to claim the vehicle. If left unattended it only takes SL + 2 to claim an abandoned vehicle.

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Everyone hates the claim system and the devs aren't even done integrating it. It will change and we the players don't know how it will work in the end. Honestly you guys have to realize the amount of hell that would be happening right now if vehicles were open to anyone? The devs saw this issue coming and made sure they were prepared. 

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8 hours ago, Major Trouble said:

 

That's funny as I think the PR method sounds rigid and awful.

 

 

If this happens you don't have to request a commander to be able to claim the vehicle. If left unattended it only takes SL + 2 to claim an abandoned vehicle.

 

I should clarify that by 'PR methods' I was thinking of how it generally works on my home servers, where common sense and not-being-a-total-idiot tends to be the norm. And where admins can promptly deal with anyone who doesn't play ball.

 

It was a very comfortable and effective management system, but it is difficult to set up and sustain.

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@Barks_Internally Each system has its faults but I think the one Squad uses just now is the best compromise to limit Battlefield joyriding and promote teamwork on public servers with no admins to enforce vehicle restrictions.

 

Granted it doesn't work very well if you want dedicated logistics squads but you can still use one guy out of your squad to do logi runs and communicate delivery very effectively. Having a dedicated fob squad, even with smaller numbers, works surprisingly well when I've stayed connected long enough to witness it.

 

It might be just a case of you PR chaps and new players adjusting or the devs see how the current iteration plays out once players get used to it and make some further adjustments. Squad is great for making you think and adapt your tactics and finding the best way to utilise a 3 man vehicle claim system is currently just part of it.

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Just now, Major Trouble said:

@Barks_Internally

 

It might be just a case of you PR chaps and new players adjusting or the devs see how the current iteration plays out once players get used to it and make some further adjustments.

 

Could well be the case

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Quote

 

Not enough vehicles, and or seats for all the squads on each team.

Edited by Devastation

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