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Discussing admin behaviour

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While you may think this is irreverent I think it is quite important to discuss how admins treat players in games, specifically squad. Let me start off with explaining a situation where this is applicable, it actually just happened to me not 5 minutes ago.

 

As we only have a base level of information to go off of so far I think its okay to make some small assumptions about how squad may have some similarities to Project Reality. As such, the start of game timer, used to let people load into the game and theoretically used to discuss how the team will work together and perhaps formulate a plan. Once again, I use the word theoretically.

 

So, I bring this up because about 5 minutes ago I was banned from the PRTA PR server for spamming mumble. Sure, mumble spammers deserve to be banned, I hate them. But was I spamming? Maybe, if you considering saying Okay, I'm going to make an actual recon squad and get info for the team and lase for CAS" I was then immediately ridiculed by the team and then when i reacted saying "fine if you don't want to work together just don't talk" I was then banned for "spamming".

 

No, this is not a complaint thread where I look for "aww I'm so soorrryy, here take some virtual sympathy" Its rather a discussion to have about what I think we need to refine and look into for Squad. If squad is going to be welcoming to new players and hopefully teach them how to play properly then we need to make sure the environment is satisfactory, otherwise the entire game could very well end up like the PR community, which while it has some awesome guys and gals, it also has some of the most troll/ toxic people I have run into.

 

As was mentioned in another thread about having a base line rule set that servers could use to help aid with rules and confusion I believe there should also be some very strict monitoring of admins. Actions like banning someone for trying to get the team to communicate and work together is ridiculous, I have been playing PR since 0.6 and what that one person just did has actually left an extremely negative "taste" in my mouth. This has permanently stained the PRTA server and its admins for me, and while I am just a single person, how many other are experiencing this exact same problem. Anyway, as I mentioned this is not a rant to get sympathy but more so to bring admins into the thread and have a civil discussion about how to act and resolve problems. Handing out bans and or kicks can hurt the community in many ways and we want the flower that is Squad to flourish!

 

Thanks for reading, sorry about the long post. If you can think of anything constructive in the way of solving these kinds of issue feel free to post below.

 

Server admins, I really hope you take this post seriously and maybe discuss some of the "weaknesses" that admins have and maybe we can brainstorm a way to fix this for Squad and make the entire community happier in the process. Cheers! Have a great day! :)

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As was mentioned in another thread about having a base line rule set that servers could use to help aid with rules and confusion I believe there should also be some very strict monitoring of admins. 

Can you clarify as to what you mean by this; like who should monitor etc...

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The popular US servers in PR as of right now are some of the worst in a long time in regards to admins and teamwork.

IIRC it was mentioned that at least early on that servers would need to get a license from the dev team to run a public server like with PR, so they would potentially hold the power over these admins... However, it doesn't seem like it would be all that practical for the dev team to spend their time investigating reports of abuse.

I think that the best approach would be to encourage rules and admin strategies that promote a specific atmosphere in Squad servers, and have players vote with their feet by joining servers with good rules, good admins, and good teamwork.

(Let's all start by avoiding servers that enforce the squad name rule, please.)

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The popular US servers in PR as of right now are some of the worst in a long time in regards to admins and teamwork.

IIRC it was mentioned that at least early on that servers would need to get a license from the dev team to run a public server like with PR, so they would potentially hold the power over these admins... However, it doesn't seem like it would be all that practical for the dev team to spend their time investigating reports of abuse.

I think that the best approach would be to encourage rules and admin strategies that promote a specific atmosphere in Squad servers, and have players vote with their feet by joining servers with good rules, good admins, and good teamwork.

(Let's all start by avoiding servers that enforce the squad name rule, please.)

 

 

I agree with everything said here apart from the squad name rule, if by that you mean "the asset reserved for X squad" as in "APC squad" and such. I think we need that rule because it does for the most part create good teamwork. but at the same time you need a good SL to do this. 

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The DEVs can obviously not monitor each and every server's internal issues, only each server's administration could effectively do that. 

 

And I do agree with Gent. The American servers in PR have some of the most incompetent administration and worst teamwork (apart from =HOG=).

 

Perhaps we will see a better variety from Squad.

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I agree with everything said here apart from the squad name rule, if by that you mean "the asset reserved for X squad" as in "APC squad" and such. I think we need that rule because it does for the most part create good teamwork. but at the same time you need a good SL to do this.

No, it is one of the worst rules in PR servers today.

It encourages the rush to create the first named squad; in all of these servers infantry squads tend to not be made until the assets are all taken.

It also encourages hoarding where not necessary; a map with 3+ apcs all too often ends up with an apc squad locked at 4 players. Admins defend it with claims of not wasting all the assets at once, and this leaves no room for any other squads to utilize the asset (even with permission from the other squad; these admins will very often punish without investigating).

One of the trends upon the introduction of 8 man squads was having a mech infantry squad that filled their own APC with 6 dismounts; it made for a great combination, a dedicated transport and fire support element with direct comms, and it was all around beneficial to gameplay. Again, the squad naming rule comes in and stomps its big ugly feet all over a creative, realistic, and beneficial tactic.

The squad naming rule is the absolute worst rule common in PR servers, disguised as being beneficial. It's a secret leech on the community.

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No, it is one of the worst rules in PR servers today.

It encourages the rush to create the first named squad; in all of these servers infantry squads tend to not be made until the assets are all taken.

It also encourages hoarding where not necessary; a map with 3+ apcs all too often ends up with an apc squad locked at 4 players. Admins defend it with claims of not wasting all the assets at once, and this leaves no room for any other squads to utilize the asset (even with permission from the other squad; these admins will very often punish without investigating).

One of the trends upon the introduction of 8 man squads was having a mech infantry squad that filled their own APC with 6 dismounts; it made for a great combination, a dedicated transport and fire support element with direct comms, and it was all around beneficial to gameplay. Again, the squad naming rule comes in and stomps its big ugly feet all over a creative, realistic, and beneficial tactic.

The squad naming rule is the absolute worst rule common in PR servers, disguised as being beneficial. It's a secret leech on the community.

 

You know what. You just got a new member of the "get rid of squad asset naming rule". You not only provided a valid argument but you wrote your post in such a great way that I now completely agree with you. You actually said things that all made a lot of sense. I still think things like tanks should be in a squad so that they can work together, 2 tanks against 1 is usually a good bet so there is that, but APC's, I have always wanted more infantry - APC teamwork. This never seems to happen, and with what you have mentioned I could see it working extremely well.

 

Well argued, sir. Have a great night!

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The DEVs can obviously not monitor each and every server's internal issues, only each server's administration could effectively do that. 

 

And I do agree with Gent. The American servers in PR have some of the most incompetent administration and worst teamwork (apart from =HOG=).

 

Perhaps we will see a better variety from Squad.

 

I agree, far from viable for the Devs to be "mummy and daddy" and make sure the admins are behaving, I think maybe something similar to PRSpy on the Squad site would be good, maybe a public rating system for servers, as someone else mentioned (cant remember where or who, sorry) but they mentioned maybe some categories like: noob friendly, admin professionalism, etc. Showing the highest ranked servers at the top of the list, if sorted by that particular filter. I think as it stands currently the PR community in-game is terrible on newer players. I simply hope we can start a new with Squad. Have a nice evening, all :)

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Had the admins been warning for mumble spam? Y'all need to realize admining is far from easy. If some guy had been warning for mumble spam and then you said that then I don't see the problem. Find a different server, problem solved.

Also, are you all serious about squad naming. I can see it for Apcs, but the thought of tanks and jets not working together and all the fights over vehicles makes me cringe.

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I can almost guarantee that OP wasn't banned, but kicked for 10 minutes. In majority of the cases OP describes this is what happens: people spam mumble before squad creation timer, when squads are being created some still spam mumble so admins tell them to stop, OP comes back from bathroom break and speaks on local while squads are discussing stuff in their private chat (local can be heard by everyone and is very distracting), admins tell OP to stop, OP feels insulted, gets kicked for not stfu-ing and then cries about it in irrelevant places.

 

As for Squad naming rule - it's a good rule. Without it you get 10 people who'd like to fit in 2 CAS choppers sitting AFK for 15 minutes until CAS finally spawns, then 1 guy from 1st crew and 1 guy from 3rd crew get into the same chopper and proceed to argue for the next 10min who CAS belongs to. Same goes for TANKs and APCs.

 

Even worse is when a terrible crew gets a TANK, rushes, dies, respawns, takes an APC, rushes, dies, respawns etc. until they waste all available armour.

 

Since you praise MECH INF, there's servers with rules about it where a full MECH INF squad has priority over APC. Powered by: squad naming rule.

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The popular US servers in PR as of right now are some of the worst in a long time in regards to admins and teamwork.

IIRC it was mentioned that at least early on that servers would need to get a license from the dev team to run a public server like with PR, so they would potentially hold the power over these admins... However, it doesn't seem like it would be all that practical for the dev team to spend their time investigating reports of abuse.

I think that the best approach would be to encourage rules and admin strategies that promote a specific atmosphere in Squad servers, and have players vote with their feet by joining servers with good rules, good admins, and good teamwork.

(Let's all start by avoiding servers that enforce the squad name rule, please.)

TOTALLY agree

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The DEVs can obviously not monitor each and every server's internal issues, only each server's administration could effectively do that. 

 

And I do agree with Gent. The American servers in PR have some of the most incompetent administration and worst teamwork (apart from =HOG=).

 

Perhaps we will see a better variety from Squad.

They're going to have to monitor it in alpha. If people are wrongfully banned it will kill that players chances of having any kind of decent gameplay experience for the rest of the alpha, effectively making the alpha pack they backed worth a white dog turd, especially when the servers are going to be limited.

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I can almost guarantee that OP wasn't banned, but kicked for 10 minutes. In majority of the cases OP describes this is what happens: people spam mumble before squad creation timer, when squads are being created some still spam mumble so admins tell them to stop, OP comes back from bathroom break and speaks on local while squads are discussing stuff in their private chat (local can be heard by everyone and is very distracting), admins tell OP to stop, OP feels insulted, gets kicked for not stfu-ing and then cries about it in irrelevant places.
 
As for Squad naming rule - it's a good rule. Without it you get 10 people who'd like to fit in 2 CAS choppers sitting AFK for 15 minutes until CAS finally spawns, then 1 guy from 1st crew and 1 guy from 3rd crew get into the same chopper and proceed to argue for the next 10min who CAS belongs to. Same goes for TANKs and APCs.
 
Even worse is when a terrible crew gets a TANK, rushes, dies, respawns, takes an APC, rushes, dies, respawns etc. until they waste all available armour.
 
Since you praise MECH INF, there's servers with rules about it where a full MECH INF squad has priority over APC. Powered by: squad naming rule.

 

 

 

Hey mate, not here to argue, just here to clarify some points is all :)

 

First off, I was there for the whole time, didn't go afk and come back to get kicked.

secondly, It was before squads could be created that I was banned, also it was for more than ten minutes as I was trying to reconnect.

thirdly, I was banned for spamming without being told by an admin to stop, I was just talking and trying to formulate a plan as our team had been obliterated the previous round due to bad communication. I tried to get the team to formulate a plan for the beginning of the round and was immediately trolled by idiotic teammates then promptly banned for spamming.

Lastly, as I stated, I'm not here for sympathy, I'm here to bring these kinds of things to light so as to avoid them in Squad, if we have admins doing this in Squad it will poison the community and give players, new or not the wrong impression. I don't know which admin banned me nor do I care to know. I just don't want this kind of thing to carry over to Squad and ruin the player base. So, instead of assuming random things maybe next time try and bring something constructive :) Have a great night.

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The popular US servers in PR as of right now are some of the worst in a long time in regards to admins and teamwork.

IIRC it was mentioned that at least early on that servers would need to get a license from the dev team to run a public server like with PR, so they would potentially hold the power over these admins... However, it doesn't seem like it would be all that practical for the dev team to spend their time investigating reports of abuse.

I think that the best approach would be to encourage rules and admin strategies that promote a specific atmosphere in Squad servers, and have players vote with their feet by joining servers with good rules, good admins, and good teamwork.

(Let's all start by avoiding servers that enforce the squad name rule, please.)

 

Well said.

Just don't play on shit servers.

 

Servers have had their licenses revoked before, in PR.

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Well said.

Just don't play on shit servers.

 

Servers have had their licenses revoked before, in PR.

 

We aren't here to say "don't play on crap server" more to discuss ways of admins and players understanding and working together to achieve the same goal, which in the end is to have fun. I think we need to discuss an anti-spam rule, or some way of trying to fix this problem. And I know what you are going to say, "just mute your sound". This isn't a fix, because its not me that is "offended" or anything by the spam, its annoying and for the most part it takes players who would probably play correctly and be in the mood for realism and instantly makes them put their silly hats on and they end up playing like... well like not very good teammates.

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They're going to have to monitor it in alpha. If people are wrongfully banned it will kill that players chances of having any kind of decent gameplay experience for the rest of the alpha, effectively making the alpha pack they backed worth a white dog turd, especially when the servers are going to be limited.

The big issue here is that the majority of the time the accuser doesn't give the full story. Go take a look at the =HOG= or PRTA forums. Majority of reports (meaning obviously not all...) are due to Op making a rage post for something they actually did do but didn't understand well.

The DEV team would be wasting resources managing this.

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The big issue here is that the majority of the time the accuser doesn't give the full story. Go take a look at the =HOG= or PRTA forums. Majority of reports (meaning obviously not all...) are due to Op making a rage post for something they actually did do but didn't understand well.

The DEV team would be wasting resources managing this.

 

I agree, a lot of the time this is exactly what happens, I mean look at and episode of "highway Patrol". Cop rocks up to give a ticket after watching them do something illegal and immediately they go on the offensive about how they didn't do it. 

 

Its definitely going to be very hard to manage this. Especially in Pre-Alpha/ Alpha.

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The thread should really be called "Discussing Human Behaviour " .

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The thread should really be called "Discussing Human Behaviour " .

Yep.

 

We aren't here to say "don't play on crap server" more to discuss ways of admins and players understanding and working together to achieve the same goal, which in the end is to have fun. I think we need to discuss an anti-spam rule, or some way of trying to fix this problem. And I know what you are going to say, "just mute your sound". This isn't a fix, because its not me that is "offended" or anything by the spam, its annoying and for the most part it takes players who would probably play correctly and be in the mood for realism and instantly makes them put their silly hats on and they end up playing like... well like not very good teammates.

 

It's not like admins and players are different. Admins are players, that want to help their server out. It entirely depends on the person/server rules/admin team attitude. If you don't like a certain servers server rules/admin team/whatnot. Then you should simply not play there.

Same as in PR. There is a lot of people playing regularly on the FreeCandyVan server. Me personally and a lot of people have had terrible experiences there. It does not encourage PR gameplay like we want to see it.. So the best solution for us is to not play there. Luckily there are plenty of servers to choose from.

 

At first I wanted to see all servers removed that had rules/admins/gameplay that I didn't agree with. But now I think it's a good thing to flush out those specific kind of players. Keep them out of the good servers :)

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You both make good points :P

 

As I said, I'm not really here to talk specifically about my experience, just wanted to try and avoid this with Squad, but you are right, its just a matter of "if they are bad admins, don't play there" :)

 

But thank you MikeDude for reading my response and not just flaming me :) Its nice to know that even if someone doesn't agree they don't just troll. Thanks gentlemen, have a great evening/ day :)

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You both make good points :P

 

As I said, I'm not really here to talk specifically about my experience, just wanted to try and avoid this with Squad, but you are right, its just a matter of "if they are bad admins, don't play there" :)

 

But thank you MikeDude for reading my response and not just flaming me :) Its nice to know that even if someone doesn't agree they don't just troll. Thanks gentlemen, have a great evening/ day :)

Well, welcome to the ''mature'' community of Project Reality and Squad! ;)

Atleast we try to come across as a mature community.

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pfft sanctimonious

 

You call me a prick in another thread, you call me sanctimonious now.. Is everything alright?

 

:| somehow posted so many times. 

 

If you post something, and it doesn't refresh the page. Don't repost. It will duplicate.

This happens when someone posted something in the time you are writing your reply.

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You call me a prick in another thread, you call me sanctimonious now.. Is everything alright?

 

 

If you post something, and it doesn't refresh the page. Don't repost. It will duplicate.

This happens when someone posted something in the time you are writing your reply.

 

 

Ah, didn't realise, I have REALLY bad net here and sometimes pages just don't go, so yeah, kinda clicked it a couple more times :P

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