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Dubs

Rifle to Pistol transition time

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Some people on the Squad steam forums are complaining about weapon transition timing. I know for a fact, it averages around 2 seconds for a rifle to pistol transition. Clear the rifle while firing hand is moving to pistol, lifting the pistol and pushing to eye line.It could be 1.8 seconds for some, could be 2.4 seconds for some, depends on the individual .Excluding adrenaline and combat factors, which could improve reaction timing in a life and death scenario, or it could cause fumbling, thus increased time.

So I made a video with time displayed for both US and RU factions to prove my point, that its actually not that long and people are too used to almost instant transition in run n gun shooters. We have realistic timings.


People need to stop doubting the dev team.

EDIT : As of v10 - Long(Rifle) to short(Pistol) transition time has changed, almost a 50% reduction.

Depending on the rifle and what pistol, the times are now 1.2 and 1.3 seconds.


The factor still remains the same as before, even with a reduction in time -- people still claim it is too long, Which it isn't. People feel like it's too long, because they want the pistol out now. In dire situations, time perception warps and short times feel long. You want the pistol out NOW and not in 1.2/1.3 seconds. It's impatience, not a fault of the game.

 

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2 minutes ago, IrOnTaXi said:

Considering its modelled from actually transition video. It should be realistic timing. ;)

I thought this as much too, the detail in animations strongly hints that :P

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30 minutes ago, Dubs said:

1.8 seconds for some, could be 2.4 seconds for some

 

Nice job.

 

I've been wanting to do this type of video. Care to share to a noob video editor how you added the timer? I have PowerDirector14 if that matters.

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18 minutes ago, DesmoLocke said:

 

Nice job.

 

I've been wanting to do this type of video. Care to share to a noob video editor how you added the timer? I have PowerDirector14 if that matters.

Different editing software's, have different ways of doing it. I use Sony Vegas, but good news is, I also have experience in Adobe Premiere and PowerDirector :)

You need a download called Timecode (Free DL below)
http://www.mediacollege.com/downloads/video/timecode/

When you have your video file set on the time line, you need import media (the timer)
Drag the clock down into a different track.
Resize and position to your liking.
Play the video, you now have a timer display.
Then you just pause the clock track at the desired time .

Its a lot easier than sony vegas, have to do a bunch of crap for it to function. But you have more control over it. Its also built in to it.
 

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Nice. Thank you. I found that solution too. Unfortunately it doesn't seem very robust because I couldn't get it to count down, only up. I appreciate it.

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8 minutes ago, DesmoLocke said:

Nice. Thank you. I found that solution too. Unfortunately it doesn't seem very robust because I couldn't get it to count down, only up. I appreciate it.

Highlight clock in timeline.
Select the power tools button.
Check the video reverse box.

It may have changed, this was waaaay back in PowerDirector12.
 

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Cheers Dubs, I always thought weapon transition for other games was way to fast anyway. My main thoughts though are the timings of going from bandage or medi pack to pistol. Surely we can speed that up a little. Very rarely do I get the drop on an enemy when in the middle of a healing situation and they round the corner. I try to get team mates to cover me in those situations but quite often you're also last man alive.

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1 hour ago, Major Trouble said:

Cheers Dubs, I always thought weapon transition for other games was way to fast anyway. My main thoughts though are the timings of going from bandage or medi pack to pistol. Surely we can speed that up a little. Very rarely do I get the drop on an enemy when in the middle of a healing situation and they round the corner. I try to get team mates to cover me in those situations but quite often you're also last man alive.

Just done a basic test, from bandage to pistol, bandage to rifle and the same with med bag, for both US & RU. This doesn't take into account, the healing animation coming to a stop. My estimate is around 0.5 seconds for it to stop. The transition test all came up 1.8 seconds. Add on 0.5, roughly takes around 2.3 seconds.


I can do a more detailed test tomorrow, involving the healing animation, when its not 1:45am and buddies are online :P

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As we all know by now, the tag line for Squad's development virtue when going over things that could enter the realm of simulation is "gameplay>realism," in this case I hope the pistol draw times could be made shorter to make them a more viable option, as many players seem to practically forget they exist.

 

Killing someone with a pistol is more for style-points than utility currently.

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I only really use the pistol for 'snipers' at close range. If only I had a knife or could smash them with my shovel.

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4 hours ago, Catindabox said:

As we all know by now, the tag line for Squad's development virtue when going over things that could enter the realm of simulation is "gameplay>realism," in this case I hope the pistol draw times could be made shorter to make them a more viable option, as many players seem to practically forget they exist.

 

Killing someone with a pistol is more for style-points than utility currently.

Its 2 to 4 seconds faster(depending on the weapon) to switch from rifle to pistol, than it is to completely reload your rifle.

M4 reload times                                                  
(If round chambered) - 4.83s
(If rifle is empty) - 5.26s

AK74 Reload times
(If round chambered) - 4.66s
(If rifle is empty) - 5.36s

Then marksman rifles are literally 4+ seconds longer to reload compared to just switching to pistol. I find it's better in real close quarters to switch to my pistol than it is trying to reload when my rifle goes empty and the enemy is just out the door way, saves you from the whole getting pushed while half way through your reload and dying aspect.

The issue is, people's time perception is pistols take ages to switch to and pull out, because in a dire situation you feel the action is taking longer, when in fact it's quite fast. If most people knew its actually 50%+ faster to pull your pistol out, than to reload your rifle - It would probably be used more.

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1 hour ago, Dubs said:

Its 2 to 4 seconds faster(depending on the weapon) to switch from rifle to pistol, than it is to completely reload your rifle.

M4 reload times                                                  
(If round chambered) - 4.83s
(If rifle is empty) - 5.26s

AK74 Reload times
(If round chambered) - 4.66s
(If rifle is empty) - 5.36s

Then marksman rifles are literally 4+ seconds longer to reload compared to just switching to pistol. I find it's better in real close quarters to switch to my pistol than it is trying to reload when my rifle goes empty and the enemy is just out the door way, saves you from the whole getting pushed while half way through your reload and dying aspect.

The issue is, people's time perception is pistols take ages to switch to and pull out, because in a dire situation you feel the action is taking longer, when in fact it's quite fast. If most people knew its actually 50%+ faster to pull your pistol out, than to reload your rifle - It would probably be used more.

But if you start your reload quickly like most people do when they run out of ammo in a bad situation, and get to cover for a second, they will have 30 rounds of 5.56 instead of 9 9mm. In most situations of these situations it's better to just refill your mag.

Edited by Catindabox

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Posted (edited)

Can you do a breakdown of the time it takes to:

1. Pull a smoke and deploy it

2. Switch from Medic Bag to Rifle

3. Medic Bag to Pistol

 

**EDIT**

It seems too long, ESPECIALLY if you accidentally hit the wrong number and try to remedy the situation.

Edited by diezl

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im not particularly concerned about the pistol draw times taking to long its the stuff in between ... a discussed on various threads before what is painful is the fact that you have to go through a process with various arms to fold sights down first and other bits and pieces before getting a bandage or pistol, in the middle of a firefight or being shot my least concern is how tidy ive folded my rpg or rifle/gl etc etc...

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55 minutes ago, diezl said:

Can you do a breakdown of the time it takes to:

1. Pull a smoke and deploy it

2. Switch from Medic Bag to Rifle

3. Medic Bag to Pistol

 

**EDIT**

It seems too long, ESPECIALLY if you accidentally hit the wrong number and try to remedy the situation.

- For the U.S/GB it takes 4.10 seconds to deploy smoke. RUS/MIL/INS smoke grenades are 1 or 2 seconds longer IIRC.
- Med to Rifle is 1.50sec
- Med to Pistol is 1.20sec
 

 

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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, embecmom said:

...

hmm... it's not about being tidy but being safe? Weapons take time to get armed and ready. For example: LAT, when armed, can be dangerous for operator as much as it is for target if not handled correctly. I think they tried to cover this aspect with animations timing. To cover it at any more depth, it would take more CPU usage or developers time, neither of which they can spare at the moment.

 

And let's not forget that they need some mechanics to avoid run'n'gun play style. Care for your own life is something they can't just put in as one system but need to address it trough numerous systems such as spawning, movement, animations, suppression and so on... Why would they bother to do this? It's core to this game experience. That promotes teamwork and communication that we all know and love. You can always play Quake/UT with teamspeak but that will hardly give you enjoyment and depth that regular public squad match give.

Edited by Disco

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2 hours ago, embecmom said:

im not particularly concerned about the pistol draw times taking to long its the stuff in between ... a discussed on various threads before what is painful is the fact that you have to go through a process with various arms to fold sights down first and other bits and pieces before getting a bandage or pistol, in the middle of a firefight or being shot my least concern is how tidy ive folded my rpg or rifle/gl etc etc...

+1

 

FACTS!

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9 hours ago, Disco said:

hmm... it's not about being tidy but being safe? Weapons take time to get armed and ready. For example: LAT, when armed, can be dangerous for operator as much as it is for target if not handled correctly. I think they tried to cover this aspect with animations timing. To cover it at any more depth, it would take more CPU usage or developers time, neither of which they can spare at the moment.

 

And let's not forget that they need some mechanics to avoid run'n'gun play style. Care for your own life is something they can't just put in as one system but need to address it trough numerous systems such as spawning, movement, animations, suppression and so on... Why would they bother to do this? It's core to this game experience. That promotes teamwork and communication that we all know and love. You can always play Quake/UT with teamspeak but that will hardly give you enjoyment and depth that regular public squad match give.

tidy / safe its semantics..., you end up coming close to a guy with your RPG out you are not going to stop, take the rocket out and put it away, u will throw it to the ground and get out your pistol or rifle.. 

 

they already recognised that some of the transitions were slow/poor (GL for instance) 

 

if im bleeding out and close to death my last thought is my safety , im already shot... my priority is get that bandage out...not folding the bi pod away on my LMG, or making sure I put the rocket back into my imaginary backpack or lowering the sight on my GL .. 

 

I will agree that the ability to do it quickly all the time leads to an element of COD like transition behaviour that we dont want.  But even PUBG has an inventory and ability to drop and pickup weapons, not something that is going to happen anytime with Squad but it works well.

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