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After playing squad since quite some hours now i have come to some thoughts:
Until now you only can play dedicated infantry soldiers. But imagine how much variety there would be if we had some other classes.

My experience so far is, that you never really know where there are enemies and how many. The real military has specialists for that, who have several drones, special vehicles and techniques: Recon troops. I dont think that would be too costly to develop and implement.

Another great thing would be Combat engineers (as discussed in some older threads): There is a huge variety of tasks fulfilled by military engineers. Expecially for Squad there could be possibilities to lay and clear mines, to build specialized defences, to breach doors, walls etc. and to build bridges. A fight for a river can be a very complex and demanding task, which needs the collaboration of many different troops, beginning with reconnaissance, over fire support, infantry protection and of course engineer work.

 

For a real military operation there would be of course a lot more different branches of service, like signals, artillery or logistics. As far as i know they want to implement the latter in the next update, but i think that should just be the beginning to have a real MilSim.

 

Imagine a huge battle with 6 squads per team, of which there is one recon squad and one combat engineer squad, for example, scouting the battlefield with drones and laying mines and tank traps on strategically important positions, giving the players much more complex tasks than "take this village".

 

What do you think?

 

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2 hours ago, Karl Martell said:

Recon troops. I dont think that would be too costly to develop and implement.

 

'recon, special forces, etc.' has been covered extensively. check out the search function, my friend:

 

http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/10551-a-swat-seal-or-recon-type-squad/

http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/18832-2-man-squad/

http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/6476-spotterrecon/

http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/7114-special-forces/

http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/5403-ive-been-pondering-a-recon-squadwonder-if-it-would-work/

http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/7114-special-forces/

http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/2062-balanced-reconscout-squads/

 

the list goes on and on.. and this is only a few pages of having simply searched the term 'recon'

 

Quote

Another great thing would be Combat engineers (as discussed in some older threads): 

 

the breacher kit is already confirmed, and it isn't ludicrous to assume the devs are considering the potential for specialized roles that handle things like mines

 

Quote

For a real military operation there would be of course a lot more different branches of service, like signals, artillery or logistics. As far as i know they want to implement the latter in the next update, but i think that should just be the beginning to have a real MilSim.

 

Squad is not being designed to be a 'Milsim,' it is being designed to bridge the gap between milsim (Arma) and more 'casual' but teamwork based military shooters like Battlefield 2.

 

Here's a handy diagram I put together from back during the Closed Pre Alpha..

 

Vq7XfBU.png

 

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Imagine a huge battle with 6 squads per team, of which there is one recon squad and one combat engineer squad, for example, scouting the battlefield with drones and laying mines and tank traps on strategically important positions, giving the players much more complex tasks than "take this village".

 

If you ever play Project Reality, (the spiritual ancestor to Squad), you will find this is exactly what occurs on a regular basis. Specialized squads form that help one another accomplish objectives and secure victory.

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I do agree that I would like very much to see some more specialized roles added to the game as well, and allowing squads to have recon capabilities etc.  @IRONXBAYYou know you don't have to shut down every idea that comes in.  You could let people discuss the possibilities etc of what they want.  Just because we are a milsim game, doesn't mean there isn't value to specialized squads, especially with the vehicle update coming.  Just saying

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Just now, JAndreoli said:

@IRONXBAYYou know you don't have to shut down every idea that comes in.  You could let people discuss the possibilities etc of what they want.  Just because we are a milsim game, doesn't mean there isn't value to specialized squads, especially with the vehicle update coming.  Just saying

 

I haven't shut down anything.. 

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1 minute ago, IRONXBAY said:

 

I haven't shut down anything.. 

Your post was very, not for this game, rather than saying thats a good idea but in reality Squad is a little different.  I don't find it hard to believe at all that we could or should have additional types of specialties, but thats just my opinion.  Perhaps it doesn't have to be  a PR/arma thing but could jazz up what we have now.  for sure.

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Just now, JAndreoli said:

 I don't find it hard to believe at all that we could or should have additional types of specialties

 

I never said anything remotely close to disagreeing with that.

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1 minute ago, IRONXBAY said:

 

I never said anything remotely close to disagreeing with that.

K

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Shutting down any of your ideas was not my intent, OP -- just trying to get you up to speed with topics that have been already covered in length and filling you in on some news related to your post.

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Yeah I want the ACC (Army Catering Corps ). It could be a valuable asset that every one could use  )  

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4 hours ago, JAndreoli said:

Your post was very, not for this game, rather than saying thats a good idea but in reality Squad is a little different.  I don't find it hard to believe at all that we could or should have additional types of specialties, but thats just my opinion.  Perhaps it doesn't have to be  a PR/arma thing but could jazz up what we have now.  for sure.

Don't take it wrong JAndreoli, our team is very thankful for every kind of feedback!

We gladly discuss topics that interest you, but some topics have been covered in the past and we're trying to make sure that the once crystallized out information seeps back through and is not lost.

 

Don't take IRON's post wrong, we're all friends! :)

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@JAndreoli, just to address a few things here... @IRONXBAY's comments were on the nose as far as where we stand in relation to Milsim vs. Casual shooter. He isn't really shutting anything down. But to be totally frank, you have to understand where our moderators are coming from. There are literally 100 different posts (probably more) that are suggesting exactly what the OP is suggesting here. More specialized roles. Many of which have been discussed in depth with posts both here and on reddit, as well as interviews that have been done by the other developers like Irontaxi and Merlin. And as @invisible.nin/SINE said, we are very thankful for any feedback we get. The moderators handle a lot of questions that have been juggled multiple times, and then we try to step in and answer others as we can. We are all very busy, but there is no reason to be upset or anything. I think we are all wanting this game to grow and prosper. 

Also, on a totally other note, while there are some other official roles coming down the pipeline soon, there will also be many more added via the community modders. The SDK will enable the community to develop all sorts of things that could change the game drastically.

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31 minutes ago, Odin said:

Also, on a totally other note, while there are some other official roles coming down the pipeline soon, there will also be many more added via the community modders. The SDK will enable the community to develop all sorts of things that could change the game drastically.

My only big concern about modding in Squad is that the game won't become sandbox-mod mess like Arma  with RPG bs elements running around and eventually be mainstream while vanilla maps, game-modes, weapons and skins will be abandoned and the majority of the community will move to play stupid, non-related  to the base game mods. I'm trying to say that ... my fear is from original-game design changing mods to become mainstream and people won't play Squad MP in the way we know it today. I know this is also been extensively discussed.

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PR is more casual than Squad? W0t? You sure about that Iron?

Well if we consider that you have separate animations for dry and tactical reload, real weapon away, and in the future a myriad of features that pr can't achieve due to engine constraints, I don't think it's that strange to label squad as more realistic/sim than pr.

Edit: but in terms of gameplay I would say pr is light-years ahead of squad in terms of sim-like behavior

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7 hours ago, Zhenya said:

Project Reality is more "Hardcore" than Squad is at this time, but I'm sure Squad will become the defacto tactical fps in a few years.

What is more hardcore in PR than in Squad?

 

18 hours ago, Karl Martell said:

Imagine a huge battle with 6 squads per team, of which there is one recon squad and one combat engineer squad, for example, scouting the battlefield with drones and laying mines and tank traps on strategically important positions, giving the players much more complex tasks than "take this village".

 

At the moment there are more than enough tools to play this game inf-only. And majority(90%) of people aren't even able to properly complete tasks like take the village. It is actually a hard complex task and you can do that in 1000 different ways. And people definitely will not be able to complete more complex tasks at the moment. Maybe in 2020 when the community is going to be comfortable with the game, then maybe it will be able to complete properly a little more complex tasks than just taking the village.

 

Maybe with vehicles it will be nice to have more classes(like an driver/pilot to control vehicles) and tools(like a wrench to repair vehicles) but not drones for sure.

Edited by KulaGGin

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6 hours ago, Frontliner said:

PR is more casual than Squad? W0t? You sure about that Iron? :D

From what I have seen of PR it sits midway between Arma and Squad, considering its 'military style' breadth and depth.



 

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18 hours ago, Karl Martell said:

My experience so far is, that you never really know where there are enemies and how many.

It's easy. Open your map and communicate with your squadmates and teammates in local voice, man. Then you will always know the exact position(down to a keypad) of the players from the opposite team.

 

This game is not going to spoon-feed you with information, like Battlefield 4 with drones. You're going to have to gather that information by yourself.

 

18 hours ago, Karl Martell said:

The real military has specialists for that, who have several drones, special vehicles and techniques: Recon troops. I dont think that would be too costly to develop and implement.

It would turn the game into a Battlefield 4. I don't think that majority of Squad players would want that. Otherwise they would just go and fly on drones in Battlefield 4. AFAIK there are plenty of drones in Battlefield 4.

Edited by KulaGGin

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31 minutes ago, KulaGGin said:

What is more hardcore in PR than in Squad?

 

12 minutes ago, Shoshin said:

From what I have seen of PR it sits midway between Arma and Squad, considering its 'military style' breadth and depth.

 

In my defense, look at the chart I made. It spans quite a wide range, and PR/Squad are extremely close to one another.

 

32 minutes ago, KulaGGin said:

Then OWI gonna need to add 3D spot icons and rename the game to Squadofield 4... dat drones...sarcastic_hand.gif I mean, really?..facepalm.gif

 

Don't point and laugh and taunt OP as if you've got some sort of omniscience given to you by the developers. Drones have been talked about in the past, before you were even a part of this community, and it was a rational conversation without bad attitude slung at people who had ideas about it.

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1 minute ago, IRONXBAY said:
16 minutes ago, Shoshin said:

From what I have seen of PR it sits midway between Arma and Squad, considering its 'military style' breadth and depth.

 

In my defense, look at the chart I made. It spans quite a wide range, and PR/Squad are extremely close to one another.


Sorry I can't move on from this................LOL. Please change the info-graph immediately! 

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22 minutes ago, KulaGGin said:

What is more hardcore in PR than in Squad?

Right now? Weapon deviation, soldier movement speed, spawn timers and penalties, FOB and rally placement rules...

 

22 minutes ago, KulaGGin said:

At the moment there are more than enough tools to play this game inf-only. And majority(90%) of people aren't even able to properly complete tasks like take the village. It is actually a hard complex task and you can do that in 1000 different ways. And people definitely will not be able to complete more complex tasks at the moment. Maybe in 2020 when the community is going to be comfortable with the game, then maybe it will be able to complete properly a little more complex tasks than just taking the village.

 

Maybe with vehicles it will be nice to have more classes(like an driver/pilot to control vehicles) and tools(like a wrench to repair vehicles) but not drones for sure.

 

That's not justification for dumbing the game down. 99% of the people don't play chess in a decent level, so lets make chess easier then? Or what about teaching them to play better? Project Reality is the proof that this is possible, just give time for the new players to learn the game. PR has drones for the Commander role and it works very well, so I wouldn't just shoot that ideia down too (pun intended), it's just the case of not making it overpowered (like limiting it to camera only and a predefined path of flight, similiar to PR). There are a thousand FPS games which are "simple", but few which gives the players oportunities to make a difference in the match by more than just shooting each other (which can get boring and repetitive after some time), that for me is a major attraction in PR and Squad.

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27 minutes ago, Zenrique said:

That's not justification for dumbing the game down.

I didn't propose that, did I?

 

27 minutes ago, Zenrique said:

99% of the people don't play chess in a decent level, so lets make chess easier then?

But that 99% of chess players they don't smack their head against the wall(or sitting on some random mountain or doing any other random things) dash1.gif during the chess session instead of actually playing chess, right? These 99% of chess players actually playing chess(playing the objective). Well, 90% of Squad players are actually doing some random things like sitting on a random mountain in the middle of nowhere doing literally nothing instead of playing the objective.

 

27 minutes ago, Zenrique said:

Or what about teaching them to play better?

You can make horse to come to a river but you can't make it drink. There are tonns of materials about every single little thing concerning Squad and FPS in general. And information nowadays is more accessible and closer to the human eyes than a river water to a mouth of a horse...

 

32 minutes ago, IRONXBAY said:

In my defense, look at the chart I made. It spans quite a wide range, and PR/Squad are extremely close to one another.

Spoiler

Vq7XfBU.png

 

I saw that chart and I agree with that.

 

PS Nice Paint skills BTW.

 

Edited by KulaGGin

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19 minutes ago, Zenrique said:

99% of the people don't play chess in a decent level

But............

 

99% (well ok say 75%) of people that play a few games of chess understand the basic concept, piece movements, how to set the board up etc.

Do 75% of new Squad players use their mic (or have one), call out a basic map co-ordinate, cover their team mate whilst advancing etc, after a few rounds?

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16 minutes ago, KulaGGin said:

I didn't propose that, did I?

 

I assumed you did, when you said that Squad already has more than enough tools already. To me that sounds like you're saying the game is too complex.

 

 

16 minutes ago, KulaGGin said:

But that 99% of chess players they don't smack their head against the wall(or sitting on some random mountain or doing any other random things) dash1.gif during the chess session instead of actually playing chess, right? These 99% of chess players actually playing chess(playing the objective). Well, 90% of Squad players are actually doing some random things like sitting on a random mountain in the middle of nowhere doing literally nothing instead of playing the objective.

Actually one can play chess and not go for the objective too, for example by moving only the horse back and forth to the  same useless places the whole game: they would be playing chess by the rules, but not capturing the king ever because the movements simply achieve nothing. That example fits exactly what you described above: a lot of Squad players right now are pieces of chess making random movements on the board instead of coordinating and using some strategy to capture the king (oops, the flag)...

 

16 minutes ago, KulaGGin said:

You can make horse to come to a river but you can't make it drink. There are tonns of materials about every single little thing concerning Squad and FPS in general.

 

People hardly read or watch them, It is like reading a car manual before driving, noone does it. What I do is I create a "NEWBIE" squad at the beggining of every match, and ask every squad member if they need help. Because most of them dont have a clue, and if we teach them, they can become good players. Squad is a different game, where thete is much more than just going around and shooting, so that must be explained to new players, specially now when the UI is not finalized yet. It is actually not hard, some pick things up very fast and become proficient players in a few matches, and so they can replicate the lessons to other new players. That's how I am trying to make the horse drink... :) 

 

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have you ever played Project Reality OP?  there are dedicated armor, CAS, logi, mortar, and troop transport squads.  as these functions are added to Squad, we'll definitely see the same kind of profession-oriented squad organization.

reconaissance quadcopter drones is a very interesting concept that I hadn't even thought of.  I'm not sure how much they're in use by the current US forces, but I've definitely seen ISIS and the like utilizing them, both for combat recon and filming combat for propaganda videos.

I wouldn't doubt the commander getting access to a sort of "recon UAV".  he did in Project Reality

Edited by Mannex

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