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Stat tracking  

328 members have voted

  1. 1. 1.) Are stats good for us?

    • Stats are awesome in all shapes and forms. Shower me in stats!!
      120
    • Stats are useful, but some are harmful to the community. (Please describe the differences in a comment if you can.)
      124
    • Other. I can describe below.
      15
  2. 2. 2.) Where should the stats be used?

    • Everywhere! Shower me in stats!
      53
    • In a player database.
      83
    • In the forums.
      9
    • In-game, but not during a match.
      106
    • * In-game, but only during matches. (Note: See: http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/2174-stat-tracking-ii/page-6#entry47072)
      13
    • Other. I can describe below.
      11
  3. 3. 3.) Who would be able to see them?

    • Everyone! Shower them in my stats!
      132
    • Only friends.
      26
    • Only me.
      39
    • Only officers. (Note: See: http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/2174-stat-tracking-ii/page-6#entry47072)
      9
    • Only squad mates. (Note: See: http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/2174-stat-tracking-ii/page-6#entry47072)
      6
    • Only commander. (Note: See: http://forums.joinsquad.com/topic/2174-stat-tracking-ii/page-6#entry47072)
      3
    • Other. I can describe below.
      9
    • Show me detailed stats about me, but restrict what others see about me.
      53
    • Only Devs.
      10


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As long as u have stats that are public, you will have a percentage pf players playing for the K/D ratio, the number of hours, the number of revives...

 

and they wont play the game....

 

I really don´t need any stats, and would love to be a part of a community that didnt need any (or maybe just a Little bit)

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14 minutes ago, RAGE_EFFECT said:

This game is a first person shooter, I want K/D stats.

In a game about killing and dying this is important. . .

There is at least one North American server that keeps K/D stats.

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3 hours ago, RAGE_EFFECT said:

This game is a first person shooter, I want K/D stats.

In a game about killing and dying this is important. . .

Actually, it's a tactical shooter, which is about semi-realistic combat, assaulting, capturing and defending territory and not just killing and dying. Killing is just one of the means to achieve the objectives but it's not the only way, hence it's not the main objective of the game.

 

As such, K/D ratios are a very simplistic stat to keep track off that doesn't convey the slightest amount of what went on in the match. If something similar to K/D should be kept track off, it's probably ticket cost, possibly also adjusted for other factors like vehicle types, etc.

 

So, if someone gets a K/D ratio of 20/5, he didn't just cost the enemy 20 tickets and his team 5. What about vehicles lost or abandoned for example?

if he also cost his team 5 logis in the process because he solo-taxis them to the frontline and abandons them there to play solo rambo , then he's a selfish player who is detrimental to the team, he doesn't know what the game is about, and stats should reflect that and punish him, instead of encouraging him with a shiny K/D meter for all time.

 

I prefer a guy who is a trash shot but is where he needs to be, even as an extra target for the enemy, than people with great twitch/fps skills who are never where you need them to be and are generally worthless to your squad at best, or complete liabilities at worst.

You know, the kind of people who are on the other side of the map and either never talk to warn you about anything remotely helpful until they go down and start spamming for medic (as if medics can fly to them across the map), or keep talking in squad chat about what they see, give callouts with bearings relative to their position (where nobody else is) and pester the SL for markers to range their shots, while the rest of the squad is trying to assault a fortified compound at a completely different position.

 

Also, holy thread necromancy xD

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52 minutes ago, Burningbeard80 said:

You know, the kind of people who are on the other side of the map and either never talk to warn you about anything remotely helpful until they go down and start spamming for medic (as if medics can fly to them across the map), or keep talking in squad chat about what they see, give callouts with bearings relative to their position (where nobody else is) and pester the SL for markers to range their shots, while the rest of the squad is trying to assault a fortified compound at a completely different position.

You won't get that many kills doing this though. In order to get kills you need to be where the enemy is, usually the caps.

 

Might be deathmatch (hard to call it tactical) but it's important work. Your primary FOBs will weaken and die without players respawning at them, like it or not K/D is more or less an accurate representation of their performance. Pressures the enemy in the most direct and efficient way.

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41 minutes ago, Good-Try Greg said:

 

You won't get that many kills doing this though. In order to get kills you need to be where the enemy is, usually the caps.

 

Might be deathmatch (hard to call it tactical) but it's important work. Your primary FOBs will weaken and die without players respawning at them, like it or not K/D is more or less an accurate representation of their performance. Pressures the enemy in the most direct and efficient way.

This guy gets it :)

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Well, i still disagree. K/D ratio is one among many means of capturing or defending. It's not the only way to skin a cat and it's far from the objective in and of itself.

 

Source: I've had countless games in Squad's predecessor (the Project Reality mod) where one team would force the other off points after 30 minute long firefights and each side would get maybe 20 kills during the whole thing. And that's with permadeath mechanics (if you got shot within 2 minutes of being revived you were dead for good and had to respawn, if you got grenaded while down you could also die from splash damage, and things like taking a tank shell to the face meant instant death) and only medics being able to revive.

 

The only reason K/D is important in Squad right now is the spawning and death mechanics that make the game fast paced. It's so easy to put bodies on the objectives that killing more than the enemy is the only way to stem the tide. Personally, i think it makes the whole experience much shallower, predictable and restricted than it could be.

 

But in a game like PR with time limited rallies, no buddy rallies and FOBs with a larger overrun radius which forces players to place them a bit further off the flag,  it's not so easy to stack an entire team on the point within minutes of it going live. Then, interdiction of movement and area denial become much more important than simply having a good aim and the game becomes much deeper and varied tactics-wise. Suppression also becomes much more important and viable.

 

You know, people tend to be more careful and die less, if they know they'll have to spend 3-5 minutes walking after every respawn to get back into the action. So you can keep them off the point simply by making it known that their avenue of approach is a killzone for your MGs or mortars. Then they have to find a way to flank around, you have to be on your toes to spot that and deny their new approach and so on. Or you could actually set up in a place away from any objective and still be useful (crazy, right? you can play the whole map and not just 9 points of it, lol), because you could ambush people moving to the objectives. It's much more varied and spicy than just having an entire team rushing a point until someone runs out of tickets.

 

In summary:

 

K/D ratio is important because of the current spawn and death mechanics that make it easy to rush a point ad nauseam, until your team runs out of tickets. But with the amount of flak these features have been getting from the community and the developers' own admission that buddy rallies are mostly a temporary band-aid mechanic until they introduce improved transportation (like helicopters), things probably won't remain that way.

So it doesn't really make sense to implement a stats system centered around a metric that will probably hold a reduced level of importance in the finalized version of the game. They'd have to come up with something only to have to redo the whole stats system once the game is out of alpha/early access, the mechanics are finalized and a new meta emerges where other metrics are much more important (such as time spent alive, time spent within a cap radius, or amount of supplies transferred). Until the majority of the game's mechanics are final, a stats system is prone to constant revision and as such, a waste of resources they could spend on other things.

Edited by Burningbeard80

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Without a lifetime stats or progression screen each game is meaningless, win or loose you go to the menu and nothing has changed not even a record of wins or losses. K/D ect.

 

People want to know how they compare to others so they have something to work towards or improve on, Otherwise the game will get boring real fast and the playerbase will slip away.

 

Stats and/or achievements are very important in every game if you want the playerbase to stick around and work towards a goal or get better at the game

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3 hours ago, RAGE_EFFECT said:

Without a lifetime stats or progression screen each game is meaningless, win or loose you go to the menu and nothing has changed not even a record of wins or losses. K/D ect.

 

People want to know how they compare to others so they have something to work towards or improve on, Otherwise the game will get boring real fast and the playerbase will slip away.

 

Stats and/or achievements are very important in every game if you want the playerbase to stick around and work towards a goal or get better at the game

 

Each game is a new game, regardless of what happend last round.

It's a teamwork game. What didn't work before might change next map with some new SL's and some new players.

 

I'd rather have no stats. I like not having to care until the end of round if i'm gone hold my preferred k/d or not, else it drives me insane.

And after the round, i forget about last round and start over.

 

Besides, a sapper who might blow up 4 radio's and die 15 times during those attempts brings alot more to the team than my k/d or spm ever will.

 

Stats or achievements don't affect playerbase except for a select few who hunt achievements, and surely don't make the game more exciting.

The players don't come for fabricated virtual stats, they come to play the game.

 

Nobody "works' on their stats, you just get better the more you play. It just happens... or it doesn't...

Edited by oTec

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To be honest i can see both sides of the argument. It's just that Squad is not that kind of game to begin with.

 

There are enough games to satisfy the achievement hunters out there, with progression systems, unlocks, etc, and i've played a few over the years myself. And it doesn't mean that you only get that kind of deal in ordinary shooters , there are also more tactical oriented games like the Red Orchestra series that have killfeeds, achievements and unlocks.

 

That being said, there is also another gamer demographic that doesn't care about all that, but prefers a more sandbox themed style of play. Here's a map, a set of objectives, a set of tools and a set of game mechanics to achieve them, now go out there and see what you can do with them. The value in such a game is not found in progression and stats, but in immersion and emergent gameplay. Sometimes it's not even found in winning. I've had rounds i won in Squad and similar games that were pretty boring, and rounds i lost that were nail-biting tense and exciting until the last second.

 

The real enjoyment in such a game comes from the "wow factor" moments that you get amid the total confusion and chaos that surrounds you. And to be honest, i can barely remember any such moments from shooters with progression systems because the very existence of stats, unlocks and progression conditions you to focus on these things rather than on the actual gameplay developing around you. But i can fill a small book with memorable moments from my time playing games without such features that put the emphasis squarely on the "being there" feeling like Project Reality, which Squad is based on.

 

Overall, i'd rather prefer it if Squad remains loyal to its original premise (and kickstarter promise) and satisfy that niche which focuses on immersion and emergent gameplay, rather than progression, stats and things that promote the game to the competitive scene like symmetrically balanced maps and factions. Half the fun in Squad and PR before it is that it can be balanced for the most part, while being highly assymetric in certain cases. If every gun of the same class does the exact same damage and every faction has the exact same capabilities, then everything is just a reskinned version of a base model, which is pretty dull to be honest and has been already done to death by the gaming industry.

 

There's nothing wrong with liking that approach of course. But if people want to play something similar to Battlefield they can already play Battlefield. Games like Squad come once in a while and are pretty unique as a result. It would be a real pity to dilute it and make it the same as everything else out there, because that would also drive away a core part of the player base. And that's the part that actually "gets" the game, knows what it's trying to be and how it works, and as a result maintains the overall skill level of the playerbase at an acceptable level.


And when i say skill i mean the important stuff, like understanding the value of proper positioning, supplies, suppression, area denial, maneuvering and being able to read a map and anticipate what will happen in the next 5-10 minutes. Individual reflexes and aiming skills mean little in a game that tries to simulate combined arms warfare in a semi-realistic fashion. No matter how good you are in a CQB fight where twitch skills do in fact come into play,  if the enemy can maneuver effectively to put a bunch of armor and 2 squads at a place where it hurts you, you can be xxx360noscopeGodxxx with a 3:1 K/D ratio, but you will still fail and lose the game miserably. If you play it like that you're just setting yourself up to have a bad time in the long run, because you'll have to unlearn a bunch of debilitating habits at some point.

 

E.g, if we could suddenly replace all of the Squad community with people who play exclusively Call of Duty or CS:GO, the game would die within a few months because the players wouldn't be able to achieve anything worthwhile (for the standards of gameplay they prefer) within the current game rules and mechanics. Of course, they could adapt and the game could thrive as a result, but they wouldn't count as CS:GO players at that point, because they would be playing the game with a different mentality than the one they had when they started.

 

Long story shot, it's like playing basketball and complaining that it's not more like football. Well, you could either play football in the first place and let people who enjoy basketball do their thing, or adapt and learn how to play basketball too.

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K/D stat tracking might have made some sense prior to v13. However, considering it's much harder to actually fully kill someone now more than ever but just as easy to kill one's self because of a mis-spawn or to simply teleport across the map it's become completely meaningless at this point.

 

 

 

 

 

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There is only one stat that I would like to see. Play time as different role. I would like to know which player is experienced in any specific task and assign specific task for them. On another hand, if the player would like to learn another role, I can send someone with more experience to mentor him in game. 

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10 minutes ago, RB79BALL said:

There is only one stat that I would like to see. Play time as different role. I would like to know which player is experienced in any specific task and assign specific task for them. On another hand, if the player would like to learn another role, I can send someone with more experience to mentor him in game. 

 

*Win/loss ratio as SL

 

 

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2 minutes ago, oTec said:

 

*Win/loss ratio as SL

 

 

You sure about that? A defeat is usually a group responsibility among all squads. This will further discourage players from playing SL if they are unlikely to win the round...

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6 minutes ago, RB79BALL said:

You sure about that? A defeat is usually a group responsibility among all squads. This will further discourage players from playing SL if they are unlikely to win the round...

That works in both ways. A bad SL is also likely to make a good team lose on the brink.

 

I'm still an advocate for no stats at all though.

Edited by oTec

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3 hours ago, oTec said:

I'm still an advocate for no stats at all though.

Yeah, same here. I reached 5 Star Supreme Commander in Enemy Territory: Quake Wars with all the role achievements with over 5000 hours of gameplay and yet the webpage doesn't exist anymore so nobody can even see what a badass I was and give me personal validation brownie points. So now I'm just a legend in my own mind.

 

That said, if stats are ever implemented it better be retroactive because I've got close to 5000 hours in Squad and deserve Platinum Global Elite Expert with Oak Leaves and Scrambled Eggs status lol...

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On 7/4/2019 at 8:58 AM, Burningbeard80 said:

To be honest i can see both sides of the argument. It's just that Squad is not that kind of game to begin with.

That is basically the summation of my thoughts on stats in this game.

Personally I've never cared too much for people who bragged about stats when it had no impact on their life overall. Unless you're getting paid to be a competitive gamer, who really gives an att's rass about your KDR or whatever other stat you feel is worth bragging about? If all you get is a sense of pride from an otherwise meaningless accomplishment, it may be time to take stock of your priorities if you're letting a particular task with no payout become such a focal point/time sink. I say this as someone who has spent a considerable amount of time gaming in years past when I could've/should've focused on making meaningful life improvements.

This is a team-oriented game and overall there's not much to it other than the enjoyment of a moderate level of emulation of real-life warfare. Just because a person has a great KDR doesn't necessarily make them a benefit if they're lone-wolfing and not contributing to the overall objective. I've been frustrated plenty by persons/squads in game modes like Invasion, where they're off fighting on an old objective that's already lost and can't be reclaimed and the rest of the team is focused on maintaining the currently active objective. Sure you might rack up kills on an unsuspecting squad out in the middle of nowhere, but if we're losing the objective anyway is that really something to brag about?

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Well, to be honest i'm not a big fan of "play the objective no matter what" mentality because it disregards quite a few variables. True, most of the times it's useless to be away from it, but sometimes it pays to fight a delaying action or be slightly off the flag.

 

Eg on invasion, if you have no easy way to get to the next defensive objective, you will probably have to disengage and start running with the entire enemy team on your back. At that point you're pretty much dead anyway, so you might as well make a last stand and take a few enemy tickets with you as you go down. Especially if the enemy team is trigger happy and likes their K/D ratios, they'll stick around and try to clear you out. You will end up dying and having to respawn anyway, but you'll be buying your team some time to get into position on the next objective or build an extra FOB.

 

Similarly for placing FOBs or taking up position close to but not immediately on the the cap (provided the are other friendlies on it). People inside a besieged compound routinely get taken down and the cap is lost because they have limited vision outside of their fortified positions, so the enemy manages to gradually crawl in and start clearing them out. Having a squad close but outside the immediate cap to provide overwatch, intel/spotting and flanking can work wonders in such cases, because as soon as the enemy team starts stacking up on the walls, you can have your team inside the compound start throwing grenades over the walls and then you can charge amid the confusion, sandwiching the enemy assault between you and the defenders. It's basically the same thing that happened in Stalingrad, only in a miniature scale. I haven't seen it done very often, but the few times i've seen this tactic applied it was devastating for the attackers.

 

What i'm trying to say is that a lot of things in the game are highly situational and sometimes there are cases (the exceptions) where it pays off to do the opposite of what you would normally do 90% of the time (the rule). It's just a matter of recognizing when you have such a case, when to quit and when to switch priorities, rather than not doing it at all ever.

 

All in all, the charm of the game for me is its fluidity. That's a big part of the reason i disagree with simplified stats like K/D ratios and ranks, as well as some of the current spawning and death mechanics: they condition players to play in a very rigid and predictable manner a lot of times.

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I would like to see "Teamwork" based stats added...

% of time digging up emplacements + time running logis = Teamwork score....there should be rewards for Teamwork play. If this is a tactical shooter you should be rewarded for tactical play which includes support roles and support functions. Having a spotlight on K/D ratio will not promote teamwork. 

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10 hours ago, skidmark said:

I would like to see "Teamwork" based stats added...

% of time digging up emplacements + time running logis = Teamwork score....there should be rewards for Teamwork play. If this is a tactical shooter you should be rewarded for tactical play which includes support roles and support functions. Having a spotlight on K/D ratio will not promote teamwork. 

Blowing up fob's and vehicles with mines without getting the driver/operators killed also yields no points.

I spend an entire round mining and fob hunting alone with a truck, dying once in the process. (0 - 1 - 0) and blew up 3 fob's and 2 trucks, detracked a 30mm shitbox and ended the game with -10 points...

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agree oTec

 

i still think the best personal stat would be:

Ticket loss

Ticket gain

 

due to the low scoreboard reward for damaging vics without kill there also needs to be a better way of showing this.

Vic damage total?

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- Average ticket contribution per match

 

You kill 5 , die 3x , rez one friendly and dig up a radio. (first shovel on it and dig untill gone, or limit it to first 2-3).

+5 -3 +1 +10 = +13 ticket balance

 

But then on the end round screen.

 

For the vehicles, vehicle damage / kills.

 

Still don't prefer permanent stats :l

 

 

Edited by oTec

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3 hours ago, suds said:

agree oTec

 

i still think the best personal stat would be:

Ticket loss

Ticket gain

 

due to the low scoreboard reward for damaging vics without kill there also needs to be a better way of showing this.

Vic damage total?

This has always been one of my points of contention (rants) that you get zero credit and/or validation for vic kills in the game which is ridiculous especially back when they were actually worth something. Also, unless you shoot someone out of a logi you don't get credit for a kill if you simply blow a vehicle up because it just counts as a ticket lost to an explosion. Not only that, for the people that just blatantly rush vics into dangerous spots and get them destroyed only to shampoo, rinse repeat over and over and over again there's nothing showing their incompetence score either.

 

This is further ammunition for completely removing the ticket cost of vehicles altogether at this point if you're not going to get credit for their destruction good or bad.

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yeah i don't care about permanent stats either. 

 

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