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Friesen

I'll be seriously disappointed if on a full release of the game...

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We always get told the same thing with our requests/complaints/observations about SQUAD that it is still in alpha... And I bring up Darkest Hour 44-45 mod as an example of a game which is an old engine, it is not a milisim by any stretch of imagination and yet it does not neglect these few key features which make a huge impact on how the game behaves and I hope that this will not make it sound like I'm trying to flaunt over DH mod, it has many issues on its own but at least it tries to stay true to how shooting weapons or soldier movements behave in real life... So here's just what I'm saying:

 

I'll be seriously disappointed if on the release of this game these things won't be implemented ->

 

1. ADS shooting. When you fire your weapon your movement should be slowed down to a very slow walking pace, you should not be able to continue your jogging pace run or strafe right and left and fire at the same time with such a steady aim as now whatsoever.

 

2. More sway of your screen while running! Currently the view on your screen does not look as if I'm running at all but rather looks as if I was driving a sports car on a smooth motorway.

 

3. Suppression effect must, I repeat again MUST HAVE YOUR GUN/IRON SIGHT shake around as it's in DH so that it prevents firing so easily when the bullets whizz pass your head and thus suppressive fire or blind fire not being useless as it's now in Squad.

 

4. Lack of stamina should seriously be affecting the sway of your weapon.

 

5. Having to rest your weapon over any object so that you can have a steady-aim like in RO/DH/RO2.

 

6. No more instant getting up from prone to crouch-standing position, we need new animations so that changing of these stances do not become abusable when you fire at an enemy and he suddenly springs back up and kills you as it so often happens in Squad.

 

7. Temporary incapacitation after you're being shot in the leg by falling on the ground (going into prone position) and thus previously mentioned more slower-realistic animations for getting up to crouch/standing position would prevent unfair firing back and killing you by the enemy. As well as incapactiation to getting hit in the arm or in fact anywhere in the body should leave you uncapable to quickly respond by for example drastically RAISING YOUR SWAY after you get in the arm.

 

8. No moze zig-zagging like a mosquito by sprinting forward and then clicking AD to sprint sideways.

 

9. No more continuous IRON-SIGHT while switching position from prone-crouch-stand up, at least a slight delay of bringing your iron-sight back and thus simulating gaining a balance back.

 

10. Only a walking pace while firing a weapon, not jogging unless it was implemented so you can only shoot while jogging with a significantly reduced accuracy by having more sway/recoil.

 

11. Having a slower sensitivity when aiming down the optic of a sniper rifle to prevent easy aiming as it is now...

 

ALL I wish from Offworld industries was that they would assure as that they do care about these key elements and not turn the game into another easy fast-paced run'n'gun FPS that so many others have led us down.

I do not expect this to be immediately, I only want to know that Offworld Industries cares about these things and are intending to do it in the future.

Edited by Friesen

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Yes, we care about these things.......There are multiple reasons why were not doing it now, the main one being, we need vehicles ingame, so we can free up our programming team to start working on more stuff like this.

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Obviously there are more pressing matters? Vehicles? 100 player servers? All those things you have reported are QOL bugs/issues and if you searched the forums you would have read the devs response to it. Suppression as an example.

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I would open an additional topic to discuss some things, but I'll take yours.


1- Change the fatigue system, the jump should affect the main bar of stamina and be dependent on it, since fatigue is not divided into specific groups, it's just fatigue. Furthermore, the recharge rate and total amount of stamina should be reduced. It would be interesting to have a fatigue accumulation system, each discharged bar successively become the slower recharge of stamina, being necessary at any given time a longer stop, to get rid of fatigue accumulation.

 

2- Reducing the use of nametags / labels, let them slower to appear (much slower!) And set a small maximum distance in which nametags may appear. Currently most of the fight comes down to see if they appear or not nametags.

 

3.  Hide the display of loaded magazines, and connect it to a ´´hold button to check``, this would take some brief seconds to show how much loaded magazines is being charged, in this period the character could not shoot/run unless you cancel the action to check ammunition. Future this function could receive a character animation groping the vest.

 

4 Limit the map to take a few brief seconds to appear.

 

5. Remove the ´´flag`` capture display from player hud  and put on the map.

 

6-   respawn times larger and cumulative to certain conditions.

Edited by blayas
I missed the ``flag´´, heh

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Please feel free to add more I'm sure I've forgotten something. My concern the most is about player movement, weapon handling and suppression effect which I so hope will be rectified in the future by devs.

Edited by Friesen

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2 hours ago, Friesen said:

2. More sway of your screen while running! Currently the view on your screen does not look as if I'm running at all but rather looks as if I was driving a sports car on a smooth motorway.

Yeah, without screen sway game is completely unplayable. I can't even join the server without screen sway.

 

2 hours ago, Friesen said:

3. Suppression effect must, I repeat again MUST HAVE YOUR GUN/IRON SIGHT shake around as it's in DH so that it prevents firing so easily when the bullets whizz pass your head and thus suppressive fire or blind fire not being useless as it's now in Squad.

That's just a bad thing. We had that in Battlefield 3 and it doesn't work properly. It works this way: you started shooting first - you won the fire duel, enemy started shooting at you first - you have no chance of winning the duel because enemy already suppresed you and it is very hard for you to hit or even just supress him back. And by the time you will be able to supress him - you'll be dead.

 

2 hours ago, Friesen said:

4. Lack of stamina should seriously be affecting the sway of your weapon.

Well, I would personally just double weapon sway because at the moment it's way too easy to shoot in this game. I mean like you press RMB, aim, bam-bam, 2 taps, he's dead.

 

2 hours ago, Friesen said:

5. Having to rest your weapon over any object so that you can have a steady-aim like in RO/DH/RO2.

It ain't milsim. It is a hardcore tactical FPS.

Edited by KulaGGin

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1 hour ago, blayas said:

4 Limit the map to take a few brief seconds to appear.

 

5. Remove the capture display from player hud  and put on the map.

 

I don't see this working well together at all unless I missed your points.

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2 hours ago, Drav said:

Yes, we care about these things.......There are multiple reasons why were not doing it now, the main one being, we need vehicles ingame, so we can free up our programming team to start working on more stuff like this.

Wow the devs are desperate to please us :D

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34 minutes ago, KulaGGin said:

It ain't milsim. It is a hardcore tactical FPS.

 

Weapon resting is confirmed by devs:  https://www.reddit.com/r/joinsquad/comments/4gd3z7/weapon_restingbipods/

 

BTW that "milsim" sin word is too much misused in this forum, just like "arcade". Squad is neither (thus the confusion), but that doesn't mean some "milsim" or "arcade" features shouldn't be in: it is up to the devs to judge if they fit the vision they have for the game. So if weapon resting makes sense and can be made to work without being clumsy, why not put it in? 

 

Don't judge the final game by its current state, with so much yet to change till final release.

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13 minutes ago, Zenrique said:

That's Ok as far as it doesn't hurt general gameplay. Been playing FPS for 16 years now or something and never used bipods because when you use it you become just an easy target. Even easier than a duck:

duckhunt.png

 

13 minutes ago, Zenrique said:

BTW that "milsim" sin word is too much misused in this forum, just like "arcade". Squad is neither (thus the confusion)

Agree. Squad isn't a milsim and isn't an arcade game.

 

13 minutes ago, Zenrique said:

but that doesn't mean some "milsim" or "arcade" features shouldn't be in

Agree. Game doesn't automatially become an arcade game if it has 1 arcade feature and it doesn't automatically become a milsim if it has some hardcore features like lack of HUD... It is the combination of hundreds of features which define the game.

Most of the players think they play a milsim and that they eat green berettas on breakfast only because they've got a clip count in Squad instead of bullet count...

 

13 minutes ago, Zenrique said:

So if weapon resting makes sense and can be made to work without being clumsy, why not put it in? 

Well, yeah. Why not. It could even be useful in some very specific situations like on Fool's Road Fortress in corridors of the basement...

Edited by KulaGGin

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1 minute ago, KulaGGin said:

That's Ok as far as it doesn't hurt general gameplay. Been playing FPS for 16 years now or something and never used bipods because when you use it you become just an easy target. Even easier than a duck:

 

 

I have seen them be put to good use in Project Reality, for cover and supress fire, very effective if used properly. For example when taking a enemy defended position, have a MG supressing them from a certain distance while a second unit flanks their position, very effective tactics.

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Some good ideas here. Keep in mind though that what you think is an absolute must is only your own opinion. Everyone's idea of what must be in the game is different. You'll probably get some of those things implemented but not all. You have to be ok with that.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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3 hours ago, Friesen said:

1. ADS shooting. When you fire your weapon your movement should be slowed down to a very slow walking pace, you should not be able to continue your jogging pace run or strafe right and left and fire at the same time with such a steady aim as now whatsoever.

 Moving while aiming isn't anywhere near difficult. ADS should not slow you down to a crawl.

2. More sway of your screen while running! Currently the view on your screen does not look as if I'm running at all but rather looks as if I was driving a sports car on a smooth motorway.

I'm not a fan of head bob and neither are others, that's just out of personal preference. Not only does head bob put the moving guy at a disadvantage because he can't see any movement around him due to everything shaking but there are some poor guys who get motion sick (while I believe they're sticking with the wrong hobby for them) and you don't really want to push them out.

3. Suppression effect must, I repeat again MUST HAVE YOUR GUN/IRON SIGHT shake around as it's in DH so that it prevents firing so easily when the bullets whizz pass your head and thus suppressive fire or blind fire not being useless as it's now in Squad.

Only a very slight shake if that, flinching. You don't want to be completely useless even if that means suppression isn't as effective.

4. Lack of stamina should seriously be affecting the sway of your weapon.

Totally agree. Sprinting should be an emergency use deal, not the standard movement. The change would help with this

5. Having to rest your weapon over any object so that you can have a steady-aim like in RO/DH/RO2.

Pretty sure weapon resting will be a thing, RO2 perfected this. Arma3 did it very well too.

6. No more instant getting up from prone to crouch-standing position, we need new animations so that changing of these stances do not become abusable when you fire at an enemy and he suddenly springs back up and kills you as it so often happens in Squad.

No issues with transitions.

7. Temporary incapacitation after you're being shot in the leg by falling on the ground (going into prone position) and thus previously mentioned more slower-realistic animations for getting up to crouch/standing position would prevent unfair firing back and killing you by the enemy. As well as incapactiation to getting hit in the arm or in fact anywhere in the body should leave you uncapable to quickly respond by for example drastically RAISING YOUR SWAY after you get in the arm.

No issues with being effects based on injuries. (As long as it's treatable by your medic)

 

8. No moze zig-zagging like a mosquito by sprinting forward and then clicking AD to sprint sideways.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with zigzagging

9. No more continuous IRON-SIGHT while switching position from prone-crouch-stand up, at least a slight delay of bringing your iron-sight back and thus simulating gaining a balance back.

It's entirely feasable to keep one arm holding your rifle to your eye while the other arm pushes up as long as your rifle isn't too heavy.

10. Only a walking pace while firing a weapon, not jogging unless it was implemented so you can only shoot while jogging with a significantly reduced accuracy by having more sway/recoil.

It's not as hard to shoot on the move as you think.

11. Having a slower sensitivity when aiming down the optic of a sniper rifle to prevent easy aiming as it is now...

I have a button on my mouse to accelerate its movement speed, do you? It would affect some and not others

ALL I wish from Offworld industries was that they would assure as that they do care about these key elements and not turn the game into another easy fast-paced run'n'gun FPS that so many others have led us down.

I do not expect this to be immediately, I only want to know that Offworld Industries cares about these things and are intending to do it in the future.

 

 

Decided to dig into it a bit.

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You can't in real life run by suddenly change directions  left and right with the same running speed the way zig zagging it is right now in Squad. And these are the things that I'm talking about that I really worry will be neglected.

 

The thing is here not if you can shoot while jogging in real life or not, the issue is that there is currently no difference whatsoever inbetween firing while standing and moving which is completely contradictory to real life as there is always a lesser accuracy while jogging than standing or walking no matter what.

 

And while in DH you can only slowly walk while aiming down the IRON SIGHTS (and it still is less accurate than actually standing and firing), in SQUAD there is no incentive to stand and fire unless the target is really far and difficult to hit. Then at least a reduced accuracy while jogging would surely induce more players to stop and fire instead of running.

 

Until you're treated by a medic, all your abilities to normally function should be diminished until you're healed, hit in the leg, get you fall down so that you have to get back up, hit in the arm, a loss of steady aim and so on.

 

And same with transitioning there is always a loss of slight balance of keeping iron sight especially from prone to crouch position in real life no matter how you try to twist things up. So having iron sight at all times while transitioning is wrong.

 

Also the shaky effect of suppression gives more chances to standard riflemen against snipers which currently due to complete no sway have an unfair advantage.

 

If you combine all these elements, running speed, zig zagging, no shaky screen, being able to fire back instantly after you're hit, when all these things are combined it makes it for an incredibly frustrating-arcadish gameplay which is just this one thing with this game that I was really really hoping for it would avoid like all the other so called AAA titles that don't care for these things and usually try to make these things as easily as possible to appease to cod/battlefield playerbase.

 

A little bit more difficult to hit your target at least on above 100m please. Why everything right now in Squad all engagements have to end up in less than 1 second? That's what really frustrating me and I haven't heard anything from devs that this is going to be changed because saying that they care tells me nothing because saying we care could mean a lot of things, but what is it that they care about, we know vehicles and yes that's great, but what about the engagements that due to lack of inhibitory features such as stamina affecting your sway, wounds and so on... most of engagements are -->  aim - click - bam - dead which is frustrating and I hear so much of that in game from other players you wouldn't believe it.

Edited by Friesen

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5 hours ago, Friesen said:

We always get told the same thing with our requests/complaints/observations about SQUAD that it is still in alpha... And I bring up Darkest Hour 44-45 mod as an example of a game which is an old engine, it is not a milisim by any stretch of imagination and yet it does not neglect these few key features which make a huge impact on how the game behaves and I hope that this will not make it sound like I'm trying to flaunt over DH mod, it has many issues on its own but at least it tries to stay true to how shooting weapons or soldier movements behave in real life... So here's just what I'm saying:

 

I'll be seriously disappointed if on the release of this game these things won't be implemented ->

 

1. ADS shooting. When you fire your weapon your movement should be slowed down to a very slow walking pace, you should not be able to continue your jogging pace run or strafe right and left and fire at the same time with such a steady aim as now whatsoever.

 

absolutely agree!

 

2. More sway of your screen while running! Currently the view on your screen does not look as if I'm running at all but rather looks as if I was driving a sports car on a smooth motorway.

 

i do not experience any "sway" in RL, at least it's not noticeable as the brain kind of blends it out, actually i have no clue how it works but

i really hate when games exaggerate this "effect"

 

3. Suppression effect must, I repeat again MUST HAVE YOUR GUN/IRON SIGHT shake around as it's in DH so that it prevents firing so easily when the bullets whizz pass your head and thus suppressive fire or blind fire not being useless as it's now in Squad.

 

not sure if this the best way to simulate suppression but can't think of anything else, so i basically agree

 

4. Lack of stamina should seriously be affecting the sway of your weapon.

 

i agree, though i think that the stamina system is prety generic atm, the equipment,

equipped weapons etc should have an effect on stamina too, more weight=less stamina, however this would mean drawbacks only, so there must be

something there to compensate...

 

5. Having to rest your weapon over any object so that you can have a steady-aim like in RO/DH/RO2.

 

100% agree

 

6. No more instant getting up from prone to crouch-standing position, we need new animations so that changing of these stances do not become abusable when you fire at an enemy and he suddenly springs back up and kills you as it so often happens in Squad.

 

can't agree more on this!!!

 

7. Temporary incapacitation after you're being shot in the leg by falling on the ground (going into prone position) and thus previously mentioned more slower-realistic animations for getting up to crouch/standing position would prevent unfair firing back and killing you by the enemy. As well as incapactiation to getting hit in the arm or in fact anywhere in the body should leave you uncapable to quickly respond by for example drastically RAISING YOUR SWAY after you get in the arm.

 

ounds like frustrating fun, which is fun at the end, so yes, absolutely!

 

8. No moze zig-zagging like a mosquito by sprinting forward and then clicking AD to sprint sideways.

 

yeah, player movement should improve in general. there are games that add a certain weight to to character, you can almost feel that you are controlling

a mass, then other games always make you feel that the character is hollow hollow and weightless. SQUAD lens more toward the second IMHO.

 

9. No more continuous IRON-SIGHT while switching position from prone-crouch-stand up, at least a slight delay of bringing your iron-sight back and thus simulating gaining a balance back.

 

maybe combined with a non hostile stance, lovered weapon when not in a battle/firefight. i know most people think that this is useless, well it is for the gameplay but it would extremely impove the immersion

 

10. Only a walking pace while firing a weapon, not jogging unless it was implemented so you can only shoot while jogging with a significantly reduced accuracy by having more sway/recoil.

 

agree, though the sway feels pretty exaggerated in the current build, its too bulky, maybe the new animation system will fi that...someday

 

11. Having a slower sensitivity when aiming down the optic of a sniper rifle to prevent easy aiming as it is now...

 

disagree on this, aiming through optics, especially when they add zoom will always be "faster" and more responsive.

if you have ever used a camcorder with a zoom, the shaking of your hands is increased the more you zoom.

i think it's the same with magnifying scopes. with 1x red dots it should

be slightly faster than using iron sights to simulate the quicker target acquisition that comes with an optic.

 

ALL I wish from Offworld industries was that they would assure as that they do care about these key elements and not turn the game into another easy fast-paced run'n'gun FPS that so many others have led us down.

I do not expect this to be immediately, I only want to know that Offworld Industries cares about these things and are intending to do it in the future.

 

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1. Nope. There is already an inherent advantage to being the defender and forcing the attacker to move too slow will make the defenders advantage massive. On the realism side of things, go watch a room get breached by anyone trained and they move pretty damn fast.

2. Maybe some very slight head bob.

3. Nope. Faster and heavier sway would work much better.

4. Yes.

5. Not unless they increase sway. It is already far too easy to land shots while standing.

6. Yep, can't wait for this to be gone.

7. Nope. This goes way too far. It is a game and I absolutely should be able to fire back. If you landed your shot first then you should be winning the fight anyway, there is no need to absolutely gimp the other player. Flinching could work with the .50cal or other large caliber rounds.

8. Character movement should be a little bit restricted but no where near to the point of RO2.

9. Yes.

10. Same reason as 1. You need to be able to move quickly and aggressively if needed.

11. Absolutely loathe snipers, but I disagree.

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2... no sway no Head bobby,

 

3. yea because i go blind in moments of action and should 100% be punished because i was able to kill the guy who couldnt kill me when he had the upper hand 9_9

Edited by RaulO4

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There is absolutely no advantage to being a defender in this game, almost non-existent. Sooner or later you'll get picked up by an enemy. Play in DH and it's actually favourable to sit in a window and defend (again I hope I'm not flaunting over this old game it has many problems on its own) I need to call for a support of a sniper to pick him out or an MG to suppress fire. In Squad I'll be picked out with 1 shot to the head because there is absolutely no sway whatsoever EVEN AFTER A PLAYER HAS RUN OUT OF STAMINA. I mean please tell me for the programmers this was too difficult to do in the alpha stage but THIS WILL BE implemented in the full version? Because it seems to me as if SQUAD devs did not care about this, otherwise please correct me that it was too time-consuming to implement even a slightest sway affection after being either wounded/exhausted, as well as a tiny difference of sway/aiming between crouch/standing position.

 

Here's how people misconcept shaky flinching of your iron sight when bullets whizz pass your head. It is not as you think it is. And I have to ask if you've even tried it in the game like DH? You are absolutely able to fire back but not with a ridiculous precision that is in Squad.

 

The suppression is repercussive and mututal. It is not like you suppress someone and he has no chance of firing back. It is just that enemy is not able to bam hit you in the head within 1 click and the engagement is over. Is that what you want? All the engagements ending in 1-2 seconds bam you're gone in Squad? Oh wouldn't be so great if you were actually able to effectively suppress the enemy so it would prolong those firefights.

 

The flinching in DH has even been increased in the last update. Still there is absolutely no problem for me when I'm pinned down to fire back at the enemy and thus we suppress ourselves mutually, even I still often get to hit him after he started firing at me EVEN WITH THE FLINCHING OF MY IRON SIGHT. And in Squad there could be at least a minimal one. Please think about it.

 

YOU ARE ABLE TO FIRE BACK IN DH MOD WHEN YOU SUPPRESSED AND IT'S MUTUAL. I DO WONDER HOW MANY TIMES I HAVE TO REPEAT THAT FOR PEOPLE TO UNDERSTAND.

 

All these valuable elements far outweigh the advantages of prolonging firefights than any disadvantages if there are at all.

 

So please do not get it wrong and get into misconception.

 

Moreover if all the optics in the game on the full release will be as precise as they're now when you're out of stamina and not being suppressed at all by the enemy fire I'll be so disappointed I'm just going to have to stop playing. I'm sorry I come out like this where I have to say it...

Edited by Friesen

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Suppression technics will always divide opinion. I like the fact I can return fire quite accuratley personally, if you spotted me first and had your chance you better make it count with some accurate fire. That's the element of skill we all enjoy when it comes together. Now if you hit me during that initial exchange that's another story. I am all for increased weapon sway on injuries. I'd like to see hobbling for leg injuries and weapon sway for arm/torso injuries at least until healed by a medic.

 

The run and gun side of things can be addressed through the stamina system. The less stamina you have, the heavier your breathing (audio clue also audible to enemies), the more sway in your weapon. Your maximum stamina should also be linked to your health level. Currently if you have 1% health left you can still be combat effective, other than reduced vision, which shouldn't really be the case. With 1% health you should have no chance of sprinting, be making constant noise from heavy breathing and, with so much weapon sway, unable to hit the proverbial barn door. Think of all the occasions where tying stamina & weapon sway together restrict the run & gun crowd continuing in the same style. Tying stamina/health/sway has a 'realistic' element to it people can believe and accept i hope. 

 

I hate the current mechanic that stops focus when low on stamina. Usually I'll have sprinted to the next cover but now I have to wait to do some observations. Why? Increase my sway but don't stop me scanning for enemies please. It's hard enough spotting them as it is without this added difficulty. 

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21 hours ago, Friesen said:

 

 

2. More sway of your screen while running! Currently the view on your screen does not look as if I'm running at all but rather looks as if I was driving a sports car on a smooth motorway.

 

Oh god, please only if it optional!

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Major Trouble, the reason it seems that it's hard to spot enemies in SQUAD is because of a huge disparity between the restriction of FOV while looking down the optics vs iron sight. You basically not only see through an optic but the background OUTSIDE the optic is zoomed in as well, really? And I get it they said they won't add the feature like you have in RO2 where only the optic is zoomed in because it causes bugs. 

 

And just listen to this -> DH also removed this feature because it caused lags/bugs whatever BUT the background outside the optic is BLACKED OUT. You can't see outside and roaming about with an optic and aiming is way more difficult than in SQUAD, more to what real life represents while being in a standing position because there is currently no difference in aiming between standing/crouching position.

 

The sway that is now would be fine only when leaning over objects but not when freely standing up and with no stamina....... COME ON LADS.............. LET'S GET TO SOME SENSE PLEASE I BEG YOU.

 

Why should you have zoomed in not only an optic but outside of the optic view as well and freely roam about without a tiniest head bob? It is because of this that optics can spot everything so easily AND AS A RESULT SPOTTING AN ENEMY BY BEING JUST A RIFLEMEN SUFFERS IMMENSELY. And I won't even mention how you can run with the optic literally stuck to your eye while running with absolutely no head-bobbing AND able to fire at the same time? Come on... it would be a huge hypocrisy to deny this that "Oh no that's the thing I really like !!!!" "I like to unrealistically shoot enemies while having an optic glued to my eye and run at the same time". It is wonderful... Standard riflemen have absolutely no chance to suppress me and I can completely OWN them with my sniper rifle !!!!! *evil laugh*

Edited by Friesen

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The only gripe I have at the moment is the dolphin diving .. it drives me insane lol I hope some kind of stance change delay is implemented in the animation code :P

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One thing i would really like to see is, destructible buildings and walls, i really want to be able to chip away at those crappy dry mud walls.

Edited by Hasbro

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