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IrOnTaXi

Boot Camp: An Introductory Series - 5 - Medical System

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Excellent point.

This is 100% based on theory crafting since i've yet to try out Squad and the CCP system.

The problems I see with this game mechanic is that it risk changing the gameplay pretty radically compared to PR and maybe not to the better.

In PR you can attack enemy positions, take a few casualities, smoke up, revive them and conntinue your assault. As long as they dont die again within 2min they wont end up dead dead the next time they go down. Thus squad cohesion is maintained and you can continue your progress on overtaking the enemy flag.

With the CCP system in Squad;

Once you take a few casulities, smoke up , drag them to cover, revive them you end up with 3 (imo reoccurring) big choices to make and neither one is imo good.

1, Continue the assault even though that the guys who just got downed will end up deaddead the next time they go down, no matter if its in 10seconds or 10min. Which can very fast completly nullify your assault, since if you are 9 people where 3 are previously wounded you can easily be taken down from 9/6 to 6/6 and you can't get back up to 9 since those guys will be forced to respawn and run back. Defending objectives is already very easy in PR and this mechanic would give even more advantage to the defenders i fear.

2. Fall back with your entire squad to visit the CCP to maintain Squad cohesion. Thus making you abort the entire attack plan and ending up back on square 1, where you started before you began your assault and wasted about 10min without making any progress whatsoever. End up in the same scenario and once again favor a visit to the CCP making your squad end up like a yoyo always coming back to the CCP without making progress.

3. Order the wounded guys to fallback, even though it breaks up squad cohesion and rally the rest to either defend your current position (which will be FAR from ideal) and wait for the wounded people to rejoin you before conntinuing the attack or you press on with broken squad cohesion and missing 3 people which will make your job significantly harder.

Pretty much all these situations either ends up breaking squad cohesion (and thus TEAMPLAY) and increase downtime with squads just traveling from point A to B and more people will end up seperated from their squad and having to run back to them or wait for rally.

I'm all for testing the CCP system and see how it works but I think it will be a game mechanic that breaks up teamwork and increase downtime instead of enhancing teamwork.

I'd much more prefer that the wounded state is a time debuff, like the 2min debuff in PR from when you get revived so if you die within that time limit again you are dead dead than what they currently have planned.

Just my 2 cent.

I guess that is the aim of the devs : giving multiple choices to the SL, but will he makes the good one :)

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Monk   

Why so many of you want PR clone? If you want to play PR go play PR. Stop asking Devs to make same game twice. This is Squad. CCP will work perfectly fine when you get choppers, trucks and jeeps which will serve role of mobile CCP.

@Webcole, all your examples are based on the hypothetical squad being all alone without any support from the team. In PR you could lock your squad of l33t clanm4t3s and be lonewolf squad. CCP is trying to eliminate that factor and cause players to communicate way more eficiently and provide teamplay on the whole new level (nice marketing cliche slogan, huh? :)

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WebCole   

@Webcole, all your examples are based on the hypothetical squad being all alone without any support from the team.

 

Nope. Call it a multiple squad assault, call it whatever you like, the example can be expanded quite easily. The crux of it is how do you manage those walking wounded without compromising your squads cohesion by having to send people back to CCPs xxxm or Xkms away or whatever and should players really be put in a position where breaking squads apart is a viable or necessary choice given how detrimental that is to teamwork and cohesion.

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Soulvaki   

Nope. Call it a multiple squad assault, call it whatever you like, the example can be expanded quite easily. The crux of it is how do you manage those walking wounded without compromising your squads cohesion by having to send people back to CCPs xxxm or Xkms away or whatever and should players really be put in a position where breaking squads apart is a viable or necessary choice given how detrimental that is to teamwork and cohesion.

I can pretty much guarantee you that the best squads won't be splitting up to send wounded back. It's not very rewarding to the healthy players to walk back, but that's the nature of it. Do what your SL says. Welcome to war.

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I think what everyone seems to be forgetting that if something like having to send personnel back to a CCP is affecting squad cohesion so horribly is that it's affecting the enemy as well. With a system like this victory for your team is going to hinge on how effective the logistics units are doing their job at setting up FOBs strategically and maintaining/defending those FOBs. The entire team as a whole, not just the squad, will have to work together if they are going to control the flow of battle and mange casualties. This opens up a new squad type that has been seen but never truly implemented effectively in PR. Having a mounted EVAC/QRF squad using humvees or any other type of fast means of transportation will greatly impact the combat effectiveness of the team.

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I really don't like that one can be healed up too full combat effectiveness, because it fosters a less cautious playstyle. Futhermore, although not that important, I think there should be the risk that an evacuated player could start bleeding caused by the dragging.

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I really don't like that one can be healed up too full combat effectiveness, because it fosters a less cautious playstyle. Futhermore, although not that important, I think there should be the risk that an evacuated player could start bleeding caused by the dragging.

 

Nobody in arcade shooters gives a fuck about dying, it's all about causing damage. Project Reality and Squad's medic system that borrows largely from PR's makes cohesive squad play possible which is the intended purpose of the Devs.

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Nobody in arcade shooters gives a fuck about dying, it's all about causing damage. Project Reality and Squad's medic system that borrows largely from PR's makes cohesive squad play possible which is the intended purpose of the Devs.

This really depends on what you mean by cohesive squad play. From my point of view this can even improve the cohesive squad play, because it plays more cautious.

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This really depends on what you mean by cohesive squad play. From my point of view this can even improve the cohesive squad play, because it plays more cautious.

PR is supposed to be in the middle between Battlefield and ARMA. It's not a full up MILSIM with perma death and other hardcore Sim features

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This really depends on what you mean by cohesive squad play. From my point of view this can even improve the cohesive squad play, because it plays more cautious.

 

No, cohesive squad play can only mean one thing and one thing alone. I've played several realistic, pseudo-realistic and arcade shooter, and it's always more or less the same when there is no way to revive you: The HL2 mod Resistance and Liberation used a Squad system without revives and it made no difference whether you played together or lone-wolfed; RO2 uses a squad system without revives and it barely makes a difference, the only upside of having a squad leader is having a 3rd spawn available; Forgotten Hope 2 did away with the Medic system that BF2 had for whatever reason, and it's the same as the two before.

PR plays totally different because people start caring about you/keeping the squad at full fighting strength, which is the result of having the ability to revive a teammate in order to stay together.

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That might be correct, but many players will do many cohesive actions with their squadmembers if they know that there will be no full combat effectiveness after a revive. Finally it is not just a question whether they are sticking together. So I am not talking about revives in general, at least not in this thread, I am talking about the possiblity to regain full combat effectiveness after being incapacitated.

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Except if it was role playing you would have to diagnose the injury, perform minor surgery, extract bullets, apply tourniquets, etc etc.

Maybe that could be done at the in-base medbay after he's been transported back by med-evac, then the real in-depth stuff starts? :D

Why not have Medical Trucks that act as a portable CCP that can be sent to hot-zones and keep soldiers in the flow of battle easier? These would be highly valuable and possibly need to head back to base to re supply "medical supplies" after enough treating

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M0jest1k   

Sorry if this has already been asked before, but does anyone know how long it will take to stabilise an incapacitated soldier, and bring them back to full health?

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Soulvaki   

Sorry if this has already been asked before, but does anyone know how long it will take to stabilise an incapacitated soldier, and bring them back to full health?

 

The last build I saw streamed didn't have this implemented yet so I don't think non-devs will have this answer yet.

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