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IrOnTaXi

Boot Camp: An Introductory Series - 5 - Medical System

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Kraken   

Very cool, its going to be interesting to see how this impacts gameplay, the necessity for body dragging now makes the feature make a lot more sense to me.

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Zeno965   

Will soon be time to see which medics flap and reach cruising altitude!

 

Tourniquets always come first remember lads!

 

Hmm.. i always though you give them Adrenaline first and Tournicets below the wound  :P

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i rewlly like this:) its 1uite the same pr thing but it has enjoiable adds like the possibility to take ur mate when hes wounded and the medevac that could be really gameplay changing

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I'm unclear on what happens after the epi-pen. It says you will remain immobile until the medic stabilizes you. Is stabilizing something you do in addition to healing with medic bag?

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Chuc   

I'm unclear on what happens after the epi-pen. It says you will remain immobile until the medic stabilizes you. Is stabilizing something you do in addition to healing with medic bag?

 

The intention is that the revive process includes stabilizing the patient, so rather than two separate processes of Epipen > Medibag, it's one process now that needs to be completed to get the soldier up and running. 

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The intention is that the revive process includes stabilizing the patient, so rather than two separate processes of Epipen > Medibag, it's one process now that needs to be completed to get the soldier up and running.

Oh ok. Thanks for clearing that up Chuc!

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cribbaaa   

I'm curious how you will handle the incapacitated state, if you plan on animating the player, will you make it so that it's up to the player to animate the character (looking around, using VoIP) or will that be a generic animation?

 

If you can decide how much you want the enemy to see that could make it more interesting. For example: you've got a medic nearby and want to call for him on Local but as soon as you do your body will animate more, so you stay quiet and don't look around.

 

As far as raw gameplay goes, I'm assuming it won't be possible to kill incapacitated players unless you use grenades or something?

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IRONXBAY   

 I'm assuming it won't be possible to kill incapacitated players unless you use grenades or something?

 

it's called a double tap, mate.

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I like that the medic system itself seems to stay simple, but its a good change that you have to stay on a save spot to heal a player up. I dont know what to think about that new "wounded" status. Reads quite fair on the first sight, but i can imagine that it can be really really annoying if your squad has every time return to a Fob when a friendly with his 1337 marksman accidently teamkills a player of your squad while you are trying to attack in enemy territory. Maybe the wounded status could be temporarly if you got teamkilled.

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The intention is that the revive process includes stabilizing the patient, so rather than two separate processes of Epipen > Medibag, it's one process now that needs to be completed to get the soldier up and running. 

 

Thanks Chuc...Is the function to drag wounded soldiers to cover only available to medics or have all players have this ability(Drag)!?

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Soulvaki   

Have you all been able to test the system yet or is it still largely in concept phase? Also, has any form of ambulance for a mobile casualty evacuation point been considered? 

 

Would love to hear if a mobile CCP has been considered. Or will you heal full in an APC?

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WebCole   

When people say "casualty evac" I get feverish nightmares of my squad strung out to *hyperbole warning* every point of the compass. Anything that forces you to split up the primary cohesive unit of teamwork in the game (i.e The Squad) is not well considered in my eyes.

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IRONXBAY   

I like that the medic system itself seems to stay simple, but its a good change that you have to stay on a save spot to heal a player up. I dont know what to think about that new "wounded" status. Reads quite fair on the first sight, but i can imagine that it can be really really annoying if your squad has every time return to a Fob when a friendly with his 1337 marksman accidently teamkills a player of your squad while you are trying to attack in enemy territory. Maybe the wounded status could be temporarly if you got teamkilled.

thats the fault of the player and not the devs.

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IRONXBAY   

When people say "casualty evac" I get feverish nightmares of my squad strung out to *hyperbole warning* every point of the compass. Anything that forces you to split up the primary cohesive unit of teamwork in the game (i.e The Squad) is not well considered in my eyes.

it doesnt force you to split up the squad.

a good SL would realize if youre taking casualties to warrant them returning to a CCP, its time to remaneuver anyway. take the squad, fall back, get medical attention/re arm and get back into the fight. this game, just like PR, will have lulls in the fighting. its probably going to be a tad slower paced than many popular AAA shooters .

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WebCole   

it doesnt force you to split up the squad.

a good SL would realize if youre taking casualties to warrant them returning to a CCP, its time to remaneuver anyway. take the squad, fall back, get medical attention/re arm and get back into the fight. this game, just like PR, will have lulls in the fighting. its probably going to be a tad slower paced than many popular AAA shooters .

 

*Warning Post May Contain Theory Crafting*

 

Ok I will agree that it may not force you to split up the squad, but your second point is simply not practical. You will take casualties doing literally anything. Or to put it another way if you are not taking casualties you are probably not in the game. All right, my original post was perhaps somewhat flippant. Here is a scenario.

 

Your squad is moving to attack an objective. You get into a firefight on the way to the objective. You take casualties (because that's a thing that happens) but ultimately win the fight and wipe the enemy squad. Your options are now these:

 

Revive and heal, keep the squad together and push on with your attack even though not everyone is 100% combat effective.

 

Revive and heal, split up the squad sending the wounded back to a CCP but push on with the healthy members of the squad.

 

Revive and heal, keep the squad together and retreat as a whole towards a CCP.

 

Revive and heal, split up the squad sending the wounded back to a CCP but holding some kind of defensible position with the rest of the squad and waiting to be regrouped.

 

Revive and heal, keep the squad together and attempt to establish a forward CCP along your attack vector.

 

Now of these options the ones I am going to pick last and hopefully never are the ones that involve splitting up the squad. So lets talk about the others in design terms, in terms of this being a game and what sort of reward or satisfaction is the player deriving from the experience.

 

Revive and heal, keep the squad together and push on with your attack even though not everyone is 100% combat effective.

 

You won the fight, your reward is you get to push on with your attack at diminished strength. Not a huge incentive.

 

Revive and heal, keep the squad together and retreat as a whole towards a CCP.

 

You won the fight, your reward is you all get to retreat away from your objective in order to heal up at a CCP. Also not a great incentive.

 

Revive and heal, keep the squad together and attempt to establish a forward CCP along your attack vector.

 

The best of the bunch, but entirely hinges on how easy it will be to set up forward CCPs. Which if PR is anything to go on, not that easy.

 

 

Here is a thought; in PR you get into a fight, you take casualties, but ultimately win the the fight. Your reward is everyone gets to be revived ship-shape and you are able to press your advantage. In the admittedly completely hypothetical above example I'm not seeing how the player or the squad is rewarded for making gains.

 

One final thought; if as a squad leader I see a major window of opportunity to press my advantage what I am probably going to do is tell all the wounded guys to give up and have them respawn on a squad rally point. I would rather immediately be able to press my advantage with a 100% combat effective force at the cost of a few tickets than have to do most of those other things.

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#2 at Cole. But iam sure that the system is a general early plan, things might change or adjusted if playtests show they dont work that well, thats something for the Closed Alpha.

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Von^Snoe   

When people say "casualty evac" I get feverish nightmares of my squad strung out to *hyperbole warning* every point of the compass. Anything that forces you to split up the primary cohesive unit of teamwork in the game (i.e The Squad) is not well considered in my eyes.

 

Excellent point.

 

 

it doesnt force you to split up the squad.

a good SL would realize if youre taking casualties to warrant them returning to a CCP, its time to remaneuver anyway. take the squad, fall back, get medical attention/re arm and get back into the fight. this game, just like PR, will have lulls in the fighting. its probably going to be a tad slower paced than many popular AAA shooters .

 

This is 100% based on theory crafting since i've yet to try out Squad and the CCP system.

 

The problems I see with this game mechanic is that it risk changing the gameplay pretty radically compared to PR and maybe not to the better.

 

In PR you can attack enemy positions, take a few casualities, smoke up, revive them and conntinue your assault. As long as they dont die again within 2min they wont end up dead dead the next time they go down. Thus squad cohesion is maintained and you can continue your progress on overtaking the enemy flag.

 

With the CCP system in Squad;

 

Once you take a few casulities, smoke up , drag them to cover, revive them you end up with 3 (imo reoccurring) big choices to make and neither one is imo good.

 

1, Continue the assault even though that the guys who just got downed will end up deaddead the next time they go down, no matter if its in 10seconds or 10min. Which can very fast completly nullify your assault, since if you are 9 people where 3 are previously wounded you can easily be taken down from 9/6 to 6/6 and you can't get back up to 9 since those guys will be forced to respawn and run back. Defending objectives is already very easy in PR and this mechanic would give even more advantage to the defenders i fear.

 

2. Fall back with your entire squad to visit the CCP to maintain Squad cohesion. Thus making you abort the entire attack plan and ending up back on square 1, where you started before you began your assault and wasted about 10min without making any progress whatsoever. End up in the same scenario and once again favor a visit to the CCP making your squad end up like a yoyo always coming back to the CCP without making progress.

 

3. Order the wounded guys to fallback, even though it breaks up squad cohesion and rally the rest to either defend your current position (which will be FAR from ideal) and wait for the wounded people to rejoin you before conntinuing the attack or you press on with broken squad cohesion and missing 3 people which will make your job significantly harder.

 

Pretty much all these situations either ends up breaking squad cohesion (and thus TEAMPLAY) and increase downtime with squads just traveling from point A to B and more people will end up seperated from their squad and having to run back to them or wait for rally.

 

I'm all for testing the CCP system and see how it works but I think it will be a game mechanic that breaks up teamwork and increase downtime instead of enhancing teamwork.

 

I'd much more prefer that the wounded state is a time debuff, like the 2min debuff in PR from when you get revived so if you die within that time limit again you are dead dead than what they currently have planned.

 

Just my 2 cent.

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