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Ostboll

Balanced recon/scout squads

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Somehow this hasn't really been posted yet, so here goes;

 

What?

Small (~2-4 player) recon squads, that use specialized recon kits, like spotters/scouts, aka units with light (silenced?) weaponry, high mobility (grappling hooks etc.), and good camo, equipped with deployable high zoom spotting scopes and laser designators. All units in the squad could have the 'SL' comms (speaking to commander, and other SLs). Possibly, there could be scout vehicles to serve this strategy.

 

Why?

Serving as eyes and ears of the commander (will there be one?)/the other SLs. Many PR servers allowed recon squads, which when done right were great assets for the team.

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Gah. My response in the first thread linked by Sand would have been better off here. Such is life, I guess.

 

 

Several members have already stated this, but I want to reinforce the point: having some kind of "fixed" squads, with special kits and/or vehicles avaliable just to them is a clumsy solution. It's better to just give players the option to form whatever squad they want, and then try to utilize kits to their full potential. If you really REALLY what to do some ninja-spec-ops-scouting, then simply form a HarakiriSPETSNAZ-Ops squad and grab whatever kits/vehicles you think might be useful for such a task. However, don't expect any special (positive) treatment if you want to do this. Adapt to the tools given, instead.

 

Also, that's a nice Thorleif you got there, OP.

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Too structured, and you'd always have people fighting to get into the 'special' squad.

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Tbh you could just communicate positions to your squad leader and have him tell other squads, but it could be useful doing it on your own

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And what's the difference between this and having a squad made up of 2-3 people of which, one is a spotter, one breacher and one SL doing exactly the same? The beauty of PR/Squad is that you can play however you like. I don't get the obsession over these recon squads, it's like the 5th thread by now about the same exact thing. Was there a discovery show on them or something that everyone suddenly want them?

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Yes but none of those are similar to what I suggested. I'll leave it at that to avoid discussing other topics here.

 

Gah. My response in the first thread linked by Sand would have been better off here. Such is life, I guess.

Well the issue here (replying to the quote btw) is;

- kit limitations (min. player req.)

- special voice comm needs

- OP kits that could be used for kill-farming

 

A spotter in a three man regular squad would make no sense. As a matter of fact a spotter in a regular squad at all, where the spotter can't use the SL comms, would make no sense. Further, if you'd add a sniper kit, this would be impossible to implement without abuse in a normal squad. Hence the specialized solution. That said, I'm not saying scout kits shouldn't be allowed for all squads; they'd just be made available after say the usual 4 or 6 player limit, whereas in a recon squad, having 8 guys running around on a hill because you want the spotter kit would not be a feasible option. TL:DR you can't make spotter, recon or sniper kits without abuse and balancing issues unless you have a specialized squad for it. Also, this is a recon suggestion, as in laying on a hill going "yeah we see a tank driving from main base, heading south at delta 6 keypad four, squad 6 see if you could get some AT on that...", not MVP ranger ninja tacticool spec ops guns blazing whatever.

 

Too structured, and you'd always have people fighting to get into the 'special' squad.

Yes, it's very structured but without the structure you wouldn't be able to balance sniper/spotter/recon at all, forcing you to just leave it out all together from the game. However, PR has loads of limited assets. Snipers, LMGs, tanks, aircraft, cars, etc. You can't make such a game and at the same time always give everyone everything they want. There's never enough APCs for all squads to be MECINF MUM...

 

Tbh you could just communicate positions to your squad leader and have him tell other squads, but it could be useful doing it on your own

The reason for doing it on your own is to encourage recon squads playing the recon role as opposed to tacticool guerilla MLGs. The devs said adding any forms of snipers at all would be highly unlikely. I believe with this specialization, it would be a bit less unlikely and much easier to balance. Same goes for scout kits.

 

And what's the difference between this and having a squad made up of 2-3 people of which, one is a spotter, one breacher and one SL doing exactly the same? The beauty of PR/Squad is that you can play however you like. I don't get the obsession over these recon squads, it's like the 5th thread by now about the same exact thing. Was there a discovery show on them or something that everyone suddenly want them?

Difference being 1: spotter kits won't exist, too OP and easy to abuse for regular squads. 2: not allowing extended comms for all recons is a great way to avoid encouraging teamwork. 3: You can't play limited kits in small squads (rightfully so since you'd just see two players running around with the specialist kits) that aren't specialized.

 

I checked and couldn't find a single thread that suggested what I did here. I bet if you just read the word "recon" you might have assumed something, but I can't be responsible for people complaining before they read the whole thing. However, I might be wrong; if this suggestion has been up before (note: Not sniper, not SIGINT, not tacticool special ops), then feel free to link it? :)

Edited by Ostboll

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1. There is a reconnaissance kit for Squad, I assume it's just going to be a copy of the spotter kit from PR with the laser designator. Squad leaders also get binocs, so it's more or less the same. 2.How so? Squad leaders are able to talk directly to the commander, you can be a rifleman, but have your own squad and you'll be able to talk with the commander, you don't need the SL kit for that. 3. You can always join a bigger squad, request the needed kit and then form your own squad.

 

No I've read your suggestion and it's the same as numerous before, special recon squad, raider squad, inteligence squad etc, there's even a post linking to 2 similiar threads above. This suggestion really doesn't bring anything to the table besides the fact that you will have an OP (silenced rifle, laser designator, grapling hook, commander coms) pseudo specops kit that merges many roles into one, when the basis of the game is on teamwork, having a dedicated squad leader that you relay what you spot to is chain of command, what will happen if there's 9 normal squads talking to the commander and then there's another 3 or so "recon" guys all from the same squad all reporting the same? That's why you have a squad leader in your squad, he says the final word, not the guy that's beneath him.

 

You want a recon squad, you get a breacher for climbing and a recon/SL kit for spotting. What you suggest is just unnecessary work for something that can be achieved with what already exists, I'll repeat myself again in case you didn't read it the first time. In Squad you play how you like, which means creating a squad titled recon/scout, picking up a recon kit and going spotting, reporting targets for the commander, it's that easy, there's absolutely no need for a separate kit and special functions.

 

Reading these recon suggestions I often feel like OP hasn't even played PR. I usually play as the dedicated recon, target designator, whatever you wanna call it guy for CAS/ mortar squads. I pickup the spotter kit, we take up good spots and just stay in them spotting and lasing targets, at the same time relaying their position and movements to friendly squads and the commander. By some miracle, we manage without a dedicated all in one recon kit and with just one SL reporting the info to the commander and other squads, works like a charm.

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I checked and couldn't find a single thread that suggested what I did here. I bet if you just read the word "recon" you might have assumed something, but I can't be responsible for people complaining before they read the whole thing. However, I might be wrong; if this suggestion has been up before (note: Not sniper, not SIGINT, not tacticool special ops), then feel free to link it? :)

 

That's because you're too specific. Building Recon squads and the like is part of the Kitless Loadout System suggestion, and also part of many other suggestions regarding kits and equipment, as well as communications suggestions.

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Did you read the thread I started about making a Long Range Surveillance Squad? I asked about making that 6 man squad which sole purpose is to gather intell behind eneemy lines using the skills and equip of that team.

I do not see a prob making that squad sure lots will want to get in that squad but its usually first come but its first come for every position in Squad isnt it?

I think this should be the recon intel squad:

Team Leader (TL) Staff Sergeant (E-6) Ranger qualified

Assistant Team Leader (ATL) Sergeant (E-5) Ranger qualified

Senior Scout Observer (SSO) Specialist (E-4)

Radio Telephone Operator (RTO) Specialist (E-4)

Scout Observer (SO) Specialist (E-4)

Assistant Radio Telephone Operator (ARTO) Specialist (E-4)

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You only need maximum of 2 people for doing good long range recon in PR and i see no reason why Squad would be different.

 

Either join a squad such as Mortar or CAS or make your own (which might be a waste of squad slots depending on how effective you are) grab a spotter kit and have your friend grab a sniper kit.

 

Find a high vantagepoint which allows you to observe a large area of the map from a well hidden (and preferbly unexpected) position. Report any movements you see to your SL and guide Mortar or CAS to the targets so they can liberate them and inform the team of all enemy movements, especially when you locate enemy high value assets such as Tanks/IFVs etc. If you spot high value INF targets that the sniper can take out such as the enemy HAT guy or parked Technicals manned by enemies or stationary emplacements being manned have him take them out. Killing dudes on emplacements, inside vehicles or carrying high value kits is also how you get the most amount of score as a sniper in PR. A random infantery guy might be worth 40-60 points for your personal score whilst killing a guy manning an AT emplacement can easily be worth 400-600.

 

It is a pretty straightforward task and people seem to be trying to overcomplicate it for the sake of cooolness.

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How many Two man recon teams can you have on one team? How many sniper kits will there be? If its only a couple for team. and they do fine yes, but couldnt a dedicated team or squad made for it do better for the whole team when their purpose is to get behind enemy lines and work for team more and report intel directly to command? Not just for sake of coolness but for team play and strategy.

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but couldnt a dedicated team or squad made for it do better for the whole team when their purpose is to get behind enemy lines and work for team more and report intel directly to command? Not just for sake of coolness but for team play and strategy.

 

First off, you have the issue of manpower waste. Six guys doing Recon is right on the border already, and them being part of a single squad means the chain-of-command bottleneck makes them less mobile and inefficient. Everything goes through a single squad leader, and the decisions he makes will be dependent on an individual perspective and a single information set. Recon squads must be able to cover a map, but they also have to be able to transmit information and react locally, and that's just not something that a single squad is capable of doing efficiently. Small, separate squads is the best option for recon squads, as it allows for mobility and reactivity while being more easily scalable to server population.

 

Secondly, the larger the squad, the more likely the squad is to not be doing recon. A six-man squad will be equipped to support a six-man squad, and this means that it is less likely to operate as independent subsets. They will have the necessary firepower for substantial offensive action, meaning the squad will be more prone to engage targets of opportunity that they would avoid as a smaller squad. As they get drawn into conflict, they are then more likely to perpetuate that conflict.

 

Thirdly, you have cost efficiency. The more manpower something needs to operate, the less likely it is to be cost efficient. Recon is important, but if doing recon means your team has to sacrifice over 1/10th of its combat capability just to have a single operational recon squad, that's not an acceptable price to pay.

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Alright sounds reasonable not to waste 4 guys on a squad that 2 men can do, but how many 2 man recon squads can be made in game? I thought that before anyone could even get the kit the squad has to have so many members, so that 2 man recon squad cant be made by itself due to kit limits for squads?

Can there be a two man recon for every squad?

Can every squad choose to be a recon?

Seems that what I heard is that you can't.

As far as a LRS squad with 6 guys; I suggested that this team will have assets only it can have and these assets give it powers and abilities a 2 or 3 man recon squad dont have. These assets mean it is a power multiplier over just having 2 guys doing same job, so the 4 man loss is not really a loss of firepower its a gain of strategic capability 2 man recon cant do or have in game.

Also if sniper kits were reserved for a LRS squad only those sniper slots or recon slots in the other squads would now be fireteams kit instead and thereby increasing firepower of team instead of losing 4 guys that could of been fireteam kits to LRS squad.

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You don't need anything special to have a recon squad. Sure, additional binoculars and a grappling hook might be nice, but all you really need is good eyes in a good spot. An Officer and a Medic is more than enough for a basic Recon squad. However, I hope that the devs will drop the archaic kit restrictions from PR in favor of something more dynamic(Like the Kitless Loadout System).

 

And yes, every squad could choose to "be a recon squad". A squad is a squad, same as any other squad. The only difference is what kits and assets you use, and what you name it. When you start defining what a squad can and cannot be, you are severely restricting the emergent properties of the underlying game mechanic. Instead of possibly a hundred different player-created Recon Squad types that can be altered on the fly to better suit the map, the map size, the server population, and the necessary functionality, you just have one "Recon Squad" that may or may not work well and that people will pick simply "because it's the Recon Squad". This has the added downside of restricting access to the Recon assets, so if those assets are vital to the team, you just have one more single point of failure. Otherwise, you just have a game feature that the developers spent time and money making and is of no use.

 

You won't see pre-defined squad types in Squad, so you can forget about that.

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I would like to see a recon squad with options to be 1 man all the way to 9 man, I didnt set the 2 man recon limit I suggested a 6 man unit that is not set in stone, and other squads can make one too, but I thought sniper kits were limited to ammount a team can have. So, having a 2 man recon limit is a restriction you say is good or not?

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1. There is a reconnaissance kit for Squad, I assume it's just going to be a copy of the spotter kit from PR with the laser designator. Squad leaders also get binocs, so it's more or less the same. 2.How so? Squad leaders are able to talk directly to the commander, you can be a rifleman, but have your own squad and you'll be able to talk with the commander, you don't need the SL kit for that. 3. You can always join a bigger squad, request the needed kit and then form your own squad.

1. Yes well if you mean something like the PR spotter then probably. But a lightly armed dude with a deployable spotting scope/laser designator is less likely, esp. since most squads would want one for themselves. In PR SLs were the main recon type kits. It helped that they had the necessary comms as well. 2. I didn't mean the kit, I meant a recon soldier should have direct comms to relay what he sees, since this is his job. If he doesn't, he'll be more encouraged to go rambo tacticool spec ops operator beard etc. etc. than recon. 3. That, is not a nice solution.

No I've read your suggestion and it's the same as numerous before, special recon squad, raider squad, inteligence squad etc, there's even a post linking to 2 similiar threads above. This suggestion really doesn't bring anything to the table besides the fact that you will have an OP (silenced rifle, laser designator, grapling hook, commander coms) pseudo specops kit that merges many roles into one, when the basis of the game is on teamwork, having a dedicated squad leader that you relay what you spot to is chain of command, what will happen if there's 9 normal squads talking to the commander and then there's another 3 or so "recon" guys all from the same squad all reporting the same? That's why you have a squad leader in your squad, he says the final word, not the guy that's beneath him.

I couldn't find any recon squad posts. I could find multiple raider, sniper, sigint, "spying on comms" (which discourages use of in game mic), tacticool spec ops squads, rambo MLG squads, you name it, but no recon squads. As in the guys usually attached to most forces driving around in light vehicles and hiding in bushes looking at people. Regarding the "OP" component, the kit will be practically unarmed except for a short range light weight carbine. Essentially, the kit couldn't handle much combat at all, period, and its main goal is to avoid confrontation at all cost through high mobility, in order to spy on people. If detected, the lack of weapons and patches would pretty much mean certain death. Remember, recon, not specops. Two different things. The core function of the kit/squad is teamwork. Alone, it would be dead in minutes. To be clear, the squad mates would still have squad comms, but could also report directly to the other squads, since doing recon indirectly is basically like the whispering game. "I see a car, I'll tell the Squad leader I see a car. The Squad leader will tell the commander. The commander will tell squad three."

 

You want a recon squad, you get a breacher for climbing and a recon/SL kit for spotting. What you suggest is just unnecessary work for something that can be achieved with what already exists, I'll repeat myself again in case you didn't read it the first time. In Squad you play how you like, which means creating a squad titled recon/scout, picking up a recon kit and going spotting, reporting targets for the commander, it's that easy, there's absolutely no need for a separate kit and special functions.

'I'll repeat myself again in case you didn't read the first time', a recon squad isn't 9 players large. It's not a fighting squad. It belongs in support and logistics, with the CAS, and trans squads. In PR, if you wanted to make a recon squad, you had to join another squad, steal kits (sniper/spotter and breacher), leave that squad, make a new squad, lock the squad, and every time you died you had to leave, join another squad, and re-steal kits and leave, provided there was a squad with one free slot left. Unless you want people to be able to pick up spotter, sniper and breacher kits in one player squads, you'd have to have a specialized solution. And one more time, I am not talking about special ops, not sigint, not sniper, not raider, not tactical operator, I am talking about recon. Big binoculars, small guns. Capisce?

 

That's because you're too specific. Building Recon squads and the like is part of the Kitless Loadout System suggestion, and also part of many other suggestions regarding kits and equipment, as well as communications suggestions.

No... Not quite what I was suggesting here. Maybe I formulated myself badly, because most people seem to have assumed I'm talking about build your own soldier/FFA comms/tactical specops MLG.

 

I think this should be the recon intel squad:

Team Leader (TL) Staff Sergeant (E-6) Ranger qualified

Assistant Team Leader (ATL) Sergeant (E-5) Ranger qualified

Senior Scout Observer (SSO) Specialist (E-4)

Radio Telephone Operator (RTO) Specialist (E-4)

Scout Observer (SO) Specialist (E-4)

Assistant Radio Telephone Operator (ARTO) Specialist (E-4)

This is not a feasible option and is not related to the gameplay or layout of Squad...

 

You only need maximum of 2 people for doing good long range recon in PR and i see no reason why Squad would be different.

I definitely agree with this but unless you want to piggyback a random squad and expect their SL to report everything the issues described above in this post (at "a recon squad isn't 9 players large." and forwards) will be rather annoying, hence the suggestion.

 

First off, you have the issue of manpower waste. Six guys doing Recon is right on the border already, and them being part of a single squad means the chain-of-command bottleneck makes them less mobile and inefficient. Everything goes through a single squad leader, and the decisions he makes will be dependent on an individual perspective and a single information set. Recon squads must be able to cover a map, but they also have to be able to transmit information and react locally, and that's just not something that a single squad is capable of doing efficiently. Small, separate squads is the best option for recon squads, as it allows for mobility and reactivity while being more easily scalable to server population.

 

Secondly, the larger the squad, the more likely the squad is to not be doing recon. A six-man squad will be equipped to support a six-man squad, and this means that it is less likely to operate as independent subsets. They will have the necessary firepower for substantial offensive action, meaning the squad will be more prone to engage targets of opportunity that they would avoid as a smaller squad. As they get drawn into conflict, they are then more likely to perpetuate that conflict.

 

Thirdly, you have cost efficiency. The more manpower something needs to operate, the less likely it is to be cost efficient. Recon is important, but if doing recon means your team has to sacrifice over 1/10th of its combat capability just to have a single operational recon squad, that's not an acceptable price to pay.

I definitely agree with this. Now, I will push my own point here; if all recon squad members could use SL comms, you wouldn't need several squads, and you wouldn't have to go through the hassle I highlighted in red above in this post.

 

Your assumptions are off base ostboll.

...Which ones? :mellow:

 

To everyone; while my red highlight above explains why recon squads were a pain in a certain area in PR, I do recognize that a specialized squad solution would be quite strange in a game where there are otherwise no specialized squads. While, to me, it seems the only way to introduce a better recon squad (with a SL, a medic, a recon, and the last member armed well enough to not make the squad a sitting duck), is to make the squad specialized, I do also recognize that this is so far off that it is probably more reasonable to just give up and accept that the PR-style recon squads are here to stay, and often annoy the heck out of other squads.

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Ugh, I can't even. You're fighting with windmills. There already is a reconnaissance kit in Squad and it will most likely do exactly what you're suggesting. It works fine in PR it will work fine in Squad without the need to pimp the kit out or provide commander coms. There's no point debating, you're suggesting something that doesn't encourage teamwork at all, there are a number of given kits that roughly outline what you're supposed to do with them. There's no need for a special scout recon kit over the already existing recon kit. Having a simple reconnaissance kit for local area surveillance is more than enough most if not all the time.

 

You're contradicting yourself.

 

the kit will be practically unarmed except for a short range light weight carbine

 

 

units with light (silenced?) weaponry, high mobility (grappling hooks etc.), and good camo, equipped with deployable high zoom spotting scopes and laser designators

 

What you describe above is far from a light unarmed squad that only does surveillance. What do you describe as light?, this is not BF4 where depending on kit you get a heavy or light rifle. Everyone's being issued a standard M4 with an Acog/aimpoint, the squad will be just as able to return fire as any rifleman, having the weapon silenced won't save you from the fact that you've been spotted and have to fire back, it will only encourage 1337 behavior. And if you've reached a point where you have to shoot someone while on recon duty, you've already failed as recon.

Having a laser designator will lure the player into lasing targets, which means exposing themselves and having the enemy actively look out for nearby units lasing them - recon squad gets wasted, waste of kit, tickets and fighting manpower.

The need for an extra squadmate as a breacher to climb obstacles is also removed, again, just removing any bit of teamwork that is needed for a recon squad to work together and encouraging lonewolfing.

On top of that having one soldier carry so much equipment is nowhere near light and mobile, so again, you're just contradicting yourself.

Your kit is essentially 3 kits merged into one, it just screams 1337 spec ops - silenced rifle, commander coms, laser designator, grappling hook, long range scopes, different camo for whatever reason. Squad is about the frontline infantry, the guys that go clearing out the compounds, taking objectives, you're given an area to take and the means to do it,the enemy is already in visual range for everyone, a km or two away at best and with the improved view distance that Squad brings, it just negates any sort of dedicated recon team because the maps are not big enough to have a couple of static squads doing dedicated recon at a few specific spots, other players can just as easily report enemy movement through text or voip and their SL, anyone with a scope that can zoom it at least a little bit, will have a field day spotting anything that moves as far as they can see.

The way the recon kit is set up atm in PR is just fine and provides a sufficient amount of recon.

 

Tbh I'm done debating, because you can't seem to grasp the concept of how Squad/Pr works, that it's a game and that Squad is not Arma or real life, the view distance, map sizes and the need for teamwork don't support your suggestion, there's no place nor need for what you suggest, the options that are already offered are plentiful for what you're suggesting, you even said it yourself in your first post, so why fix what ain't broken. Don't bother replying.

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Ostboll, what everyone is trying to tell you is that there are far better ways of dealing with recon than your suggestion. We all understand what your suggestion is.

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[snip]

1. Stop using so-cal girlie expressions bae<3

2. It will be interesting to see how Squad solves how to spawn this recon kit, without tailored solutions. Same for snipers if they're implemented.

3. A deployable high zoom scope and weaker guns is not "pimping out". If so, we should stop these gosh dern pimped breachers and medics too. Anything that aint rifleman=too pimp'd.

4. I'm not suggesting anything other than a recon kit. No secondary "scout recon" or whatever you came up with here. If you read my OP, you'll note I'm suggesting a squad style to balance the recon/sniper, not the recon/sniper itself.

5. What I describe as light? No nades or excess gear at all, offensive capacities at bare minimum. In this case, say a shortened AK5, the AK5D (2nd from top), period. Little ammo, no zoom optics. And possibly a single patch if you're lucky. The silencer was a very optional suggestion to help the recon kit avoid confrontation.

6. You just said lasing targets is not part of recon squad, because the recon squad would have to maintain a visual with the target. Which is what recon squads do. Just... An FYI...

7. In PR spotters had grappling hooks to avoid this "extra teamwork" of running around with a full squad, breacher and all, to do recon.

8. My kit is the spotter from PR, but with commander comms to do recon better. If this is 1337 spec ops to you, then sure whatever. Silencer was highly optional, SLs and spotters already have designators, spotters already have grappling hooks, no one mentioned long range weapons scopes, and no one said different camo. Well, possibly a few straws on the helmet for the recon kit. Are you projecting here? Most of the things you said are out of thin air.

9. So now you've changed your mind and recon isn't needed due to view distance?

10. Sorry didn't read the whole comment in one go... Disregard the above then. But yeah I agree this topic has brought up an inflamed and hostile attitude. My speculations as to why that is I shall keep to myself. I suggest this thread is now closed.

 

Ostboll, what everyone is trying to tell you is that there are far better ways of dealing with recon than your suggestion. We all understand what your suggestion is.

While no one has presented a viable option for handling the issues highlighted in red, hence balancing the spawn rate and role of snipers/recons, I shall not further this debate as everyone gets their panties in a bunch and claim I'm arguing for tactical spec ops MLG special squads.

 

The devs said no, the community started projecting their phobias against gorilla warfare all over, and a specialized squad, whilst solving the issue of unbalanced/lone-wolfing recons and snipers, is not feasible a option. Better just abandon any improved designated recon attempts and accept that it won't work. I'm out, hope y'all are too. Please don't make another post about how little you like the navy SEALs. I get it, and I never posted anything about it.

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You guys are ridiculous. You argue and argue and get upset.

Guess what!? None of you guys are devs. Nearly every post on these forums is theory craft. There's no point in getting mad at what other users think of your ideas because there's a 99.9% chance it isn't going to make it into the game. More than likely the devs don't even have time to read your posts, especially overly long and argumentative ones.

They are going to make the game that they want to make. They aren't using the forums as their design requirements. Sure, they may get a good idea or two but for the most part we are all wasting our time arguing about things that won't matter.

I'm grumpy today

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3. A deployable high zoom scope and weaker guns is not "pimping out". If so, we should stop these gosh dern pimped breachers and medics too. Anything that aint rifleman=too pimp'd.

 

 

 

If I may interject some realism, this is not Battlefield where essentially identical weapons have vastly different damage values. That said, what exactly would a "weaker gun" be? 5.56 is 5.56, 7.62 is 7.62, etc. And in reality - what weapon does the US Army/Marines field that would be considered a 'weaker gun' at battalion level?  I don't think you will be seeing any MP7s, MP5s, or 9MM M4s on the field. 

 

On the idea as a whole, everything others have said is true. The maps will not be big enough, and the type of gameplay will not be slow paced enough in order to justify the requirement for a tailor-made recon/scout kit. I still find sniper/spotter recon teams to be useless half of the time, as their positions are usually overtaken by a friendly infantry squad within minutes of them getting there, eliminating their need as recon asset. It's just not feasible for them to sneak into their position behind enemy lines before a mechanized infantry squad simply drives into position and hunkers down. Assuming Squad doesn't have an arbitrary squad amount limit, you could have several squads of 1SL, 1 breacher and easily conduct recon via the SL's bino's and the breacher's mobility. 

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Hey guys, I was just wondering over here... Can I join the negative nelly hate-train? Although I disagree with some of ostballs ideas, he has a point to make and you do not. You have provided no more evidence than "it's how it's always been" and "long view distance"

There is a need for proper reconnaissance squads. Regardless of your stance on the issue, there will be no satellites, and in conventional warfare air vehicles are shot down by long range SAM systems. True reconnaissance squads are a must. Now there are going to have to be limitations, to prevent abuse, but 4x optivs will provide adequate mid-range engagements out to about 200 meters, WHICH IS WHERE ITS USEFULNESS ENDS, end of story. Recon cannot operate within such a short range, now of course in real life an acog can be used out way further, but the average gamer doesn't have a 4k screen to allow low-power optics to be effective to its true capabilities. A recon squad should be able to see further than another squad because otherwise their purpose is lost. Larger magnification will be required. They should not have sniper rifles and should still have the same engagement range as a standard soldier, while also being able to see farther, forcing stealth and evasive measures around hostile forces. This means there is no combat advantage to being this squad other than that leant to other squads in the form of intel.

Let's be more constructive in our comments.

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