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Classic AK-47 and Type 56.

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12 hours ago, Aniallator said:

 

I know what you mean, and I feel the same way. Mod weapons don't have a standard the way vanilla ones do, and though I'm looking forward to them, I'm always hesitant about whether they differ from Squad in visual style, and thus look totally different from vanilla weapons.

Not really, 3D artusts tend to aim for precision, no? Unless the models were for CS:S and shit where you won't be aiming down sights anyway so accuracy isn't that important. Yet most of these models still look pretty damn fine and to scale as well, as seen by the many weapon ports from Gamebanana onto the INS2 workshop.

 

I think the difference in quality is due to the difference in animators and texture artists, cause they may be going for a different feel in general. It's kinda obvious to tell apart.537a68ab0a1fb.jpgI guess that's where the discrepacies lie?

Edited by Blackout330

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10 hours ago, Fritz45 said:

An original model of the AK-47 is not common at all. In fact they are quite prized. The most common variant is in fact the AKMS, or better known as the modernized version of the AK47.

 

1)AKMS.AK - Kalashnikov Machinerifle.M - Modernized.S - folding stock.It's less common,than classic AKM,because used only by VDV.

2)Despite AK(47) isn't common,Type56 is pretty common.It's actually AKM-based,weapon,but doesn't have muzzle brake.As result - higher recoil.

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12 hours ago, VarenykySupreme said:

Yeah? How many select fire Type 56 rifles has Z-Trooper shot to form that opinion of his? I've shot one and I'm going to guess he's shot exactly zero of them, which is how he ended up with the opinion that he has rather than an informed one. They're not even remotely similar when it comes to handling because the Type 56 is fucking wild to shoot. Standard AKMs are relatively tame when compared to the Type 56. They're not close enough to be rolled under the bus with the answer "no it's the same as the AKM".

 

Well, ok granted they aren't as similar as he made them out to be, but the only differerentiation between the AKM and the Type 56 outside of a slightly different model would be two lines of code

"set ROF: 750 RPM"

"set Recoil: x" whatever kind of value UE4 works with

 

From a game designer's perspective that doesn't sound too good. Compared to the SKS and PPSh which you mentioned, the Type 56 doesn't add a whole lot of variety, it's more in the category "nice that I have the option of tweaking my AK a bit", whereas SKS and PPSh work completely different and fulfil two different purposes(one is CQB, the other has good range). If you have only so much manpower to work with and you intend to spend them on worthwhile additions(in terms of gameplay) it's a no-brainer which ones to go for, regardless of how common they are in the real world.

 

Don't get me wrong, I get your point. However I would argue that the discussion is very much poisoned, we should close this thread and you may come back with a new thread in a few months time, once all of you stopped treating each other like dirt under their shoes.

 

Quote

Wait, the BTR-80 to BTR-82A? Nope, in my opinion they've got near the same performance, (ignore lack of experience with either of the two platforms).

 

BTR-80="updated" BTR-60, armed with 14.5mm KPVT HMG     BTR-80A=armed with 30mm 2A72 autocannon

BTR-82=up-armoured BTR-80 with stabilizer                                  BTR-82A=up-armoured and up-gunned

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20 minutes ago, Frontliner said:

 

Well, ok granted they aren't as similar as he made them out to be, but the only differerentiation between the AKM and the Type 56 outside of a slightly different model would be two lines of code

"set ROF: 750 RPM"

"set Recoil: x" whatever kind of value UE4 works with

 

From a game designer's perspective that doesn't sound too good. Compared to the SKS and PPSh which you mentioned, the Type 56 doesn't add a whole lot of variety, it's more in the category "nice that I have the option of tweaking my AK a bit", whereas SKS and PPSh work completely different and fulfil two different purposes(one is CQB, the other has good range). If you have only so much manpower to work with and you intend to spend them on worthwhile additions(in terms of gameplay) it's a no-brainer which ones to go for, regardless of how common they are in the real world.

 

Don't get me wrong, I get your point. However I would argue that the discussion is very much poisoned, we should close this thread and you may come back with a new thread in a few months time, once all of you stopped treating each other like dirt under their shoes.

 

 

BTR-80="updated" BTR-60, armed with 14.5mm KPVT HMG     BTR-80A=armed with 30mm 2A72 autocannon

BTR-82=up-armoured BTR-80 with stabilizer                                  BTR-82A=up-armoured and up-gunned

 

A slightly different model? Last time I checked the Type 56 has a: different handguard, different stock, different front sight, a fixed bayonet, a different dust cover, a different color bolt, and a different grip from your standard AKM. To me, these features are pretty different, and at least two of them are noticeable to everyone who will see them, and at least one more of those is noticeable to people who pick up on things (that would be the dust cover, because to me it's pretty different looking as it's smooth like the AK-74M rather than ribbed like the AKM). 

 

How does the SKS add variety? It's a single shot, ten round 7.62x39mm rifle that was antiquated during the design process, let alone during adoption. Does it "add variety" because it's single shot? Does it "add variety" because it has to be loaded single-feed or with a stripper clip? Does it "add variety" because it's got a slightly longer barrel, which leads to slightly more favorable ballistics and recoil? Not to say I don't want an SKS in the game, but to me it really doesn't bring anything groundbreaking, it just adds a weapon that'll force people to play a bit more out of their comfort zone, which is something I think the Type 56 can do as well. I look at the PPSh a bit differently: the variety part is obvious, but just like the SKS, how about the authenticity? In this very thread we have a dev telling us about how high of a priority authenticity is to them (or isn't to them depending on how the argument favors their stance on a particular subject), so where is the authenticity of either of these weapons? A handful of photos over the last 15-16 years is more than enough to throw them into the game, but a slough of photos isn't enough for the Type 56? I'm just spitballing here, but maybe the Type 56 isn't similar enough to be worth adding because it requires them to put forth more effort for a weapon that people won't pick up on right away, unlike some casual-CoD eye candy like the PPSh. 

 

You see, the idea that the SKS has "good range" is a bit of a joke. They're really not all that much more accurate than the AK and they're more prone to some horrendous failures (such as slam firing) than many other weapons. Unless it's forced upon a role I don't see it adding anything to the game because nobody will use it. Even then, once it's been forced upon a role, how often will people use that role? How big of a difference will there be between that an the AK? Will that difference offer any advantages, or will this simply be a gimp weapon? You can decide on that one yourself, but I'm sure you already know the answer I'd give.

 

My intention isn't to treat anyone like dirt, my intention is to find out a proper reason behind why this weapon isn't being put in and, personally, I'd prefer it be in the form of an intelligent and respectful discourse rather than the name-calling, back-pedaling, and now meme-spouting that's been oh-so-common on one side of this issue. To me, this issue signifies many things, not the least of which is abandoning a core focus for expediency and diversity at the cost of inaccuracy. I don't think it's proper or respectful to have to or to want to call out devs, but at the same time I'm not about to let a dev go by with passive-aggressive comments and a holier-than-thou attitude. I don't understand what's so hard about all of us here having a discussion that doesn't require people to sperg out over how we shouldn't be able to give feedback or suggestions in the feedback/suggestions thread. 

 

Believe you me: I know what the difference is between the BTR-80 and the BTR-82A, my comment was a satire of his previous comment about how the Type 56 and the AKM were totally the exact same in every way: how much you know makes all the difference, and fuck anyone who's excuse boils down to "you have too much knowledge about a particular thing". Just because someone is stupid and doesn't know the difference between x and y, doesn't mean that I can't know the difference and expect that the differences be noted. 

 

"Work was like a stick. It had two ends. When you worked for the knowing you gave them quality; when you worked for a fool you simply gave him eyewash. Otherwise, everybody would have croaked long ago. They all knew that."

 

I don't expect this game to be work done for a fool, nor should anyone accept that this game have work done for a fool. We've got some pretty bright people here who know when something's out of place. Keep calling it out because you're the quality control. 

Edited by VarenykySupreme

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On 6/14/2016 at 10:15 AM, Z-trooper said:

We hear all of the complaints, and most of them are from a very small number of people out of like 200.000+ people who chose to buy our game.

And it is the same arguments in every single thread we see them, by mostly the same few people.

 

A very loud, incessant minority on these forums with their nit-picking attitudes have unfortunately driven away a lot of users from participating here.

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1 minute ago, IRONXBAY said:

 

A very loud, incessant minority on these forums with their nit-picking attitudes have unfortunately driven away a lot of users from participating here.

 

People tend to continuously make the same argument over and over again because people know they fall by the wayside if they're not repeated occasionally. I don't think anyone's been driven away because a "very loud, incessant minority" of forum users want more content, I'd say it's the reactionary force of people who are now going so low as to post memes as arguments on top of name calling and other such ad hominem crap. What's more detrimental to this forum: "Here is an rifle and here's why I believe it should be placed in the game" or "wow why don't you just move on you're being childish for wanting that weapon when you've already been told that it's not going to be in because the developers don't feel like doing it"? 

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53 minutes ago, Frontliner said:

 

Well, ok granted they aren't as similar as he made them out to be, but the only differerentiation between the AKM and the Type 56 outside of a slightly different model would be two lines of code

"set ROF: 750 RPM"

"set Recoil: x" whatever kind of value UE4 works with

 

From a game designer's perspective that doesn't sound too good. Compared to the SKS and PPSh which you mentioned, the Type 56 doesn't add a whole lot of variety, it's more in the category "nice that I have the option of tweaking my AK a bit", whereas SKS and PPSh work completely different and fulfil two different purposes(one is CQB, the other has good range). If you have only so much manpower to work with and you intend to spend them on worthwhile additions(in terms of gameplay) it's a no-brainer which ones to go for, regardless of how common they are in the real world.

 

Don't get me wrong, I get your point. However I would argue that the discussion is very much poisoned, we should close this thread and you may come back with a new thread in a few months time, once all of you stopped treating each other like dirt under their shoes.

 

 

BTR-80="updated" BTR-60, armed with 14.5mm KPVT HMG     BTR-80A=armed with 30mm 2A72 autocannon

BTR-82=up-armoured BTR-80 with stabilizer                                  BTR-82A=up-armoured and up-gunned

 

Slightly... actually it depends for who.Average human didn't see diffirence between AKM and Vz. 58,just because it have similar shape.But in fact Vz.58 is a fully automatic SKS.

I could say even more - average people didn't see diffirence between Soviet tank line for example.But the fact is - it's not.T-80U for example able to do things,impossible to other Soviet tanks for example.

An even more - average people play BF-like games.

 

Diffirence between AK and Type56 exists.Yes,they have similar shape,but it's two diffirent guns.

RoJVdjk.png

Yes,I know,game for logic - weapon is a 3d model and array of characteristics.

 

As for BTR-80... that's funniest thins I heard about it.

First of BTR-80 have single diesel engine,while BTR-60PB and 70 have 2 gasoline engine.Older is simply much more dangerous,they burn like a matches,when they're damaged.

Another functional diffirence - diffirent turret and optic in it.It's waaaay much better.

 

BTR-82/82A - they doesn't actually up-armored.Only weapon system been improved.All rest changes - not nessasary for a game(such a climate control)

 

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44 minutes ago, IRONXBAY said:

 

A very loud, incessant minority on these forums with their nit-picking attitudes have unfortunately driven away a lot of users from participating here.

 

We don't ask these people to participate here, because majority don't give a fuck and will be okay even with camo painted dildos instead of rifles. I didn't come here to teach devs how to make a game, but I know something about how to represent military forces. And when it comes to this kind of suggestions, it is weird to see ignorance from devs, who are making PR successor. PR doesn't rely on the developer's vision of fidelity, it wasn't "30% more authentic than BF and 5% less than Arma". It was "Make it as true as gameplay allows".

 

There is nothing wrong with us, since we are here to see the PR successor, not the random shooter. If our suggestions are struggling with such attitude, we all need to accept that there is another one PR aspect was lost on the way to the heart of "average player".

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1 hour ago, VarenykySupreme said:

A slightly different model? Last time I checked the Type 56 has a: different handguard, different stock, different

front sight, a fixed bayonet, a different dust cover, a different color bolt, and a different grip from your standard AKM. To me, these features are pretty different, and at least two of them are noticeable to everyone who will see them, and at least one more of those is noticeable to people who pick up on things (that would be the dust cover, because to me it's pretty different looking as it's smooth like the AK-74M rather than ribbed like the AKM). 

 

Don't treat it as if any of what you mentioned would make the Type 56 a completely different looking weapon from the AKM(minus bayonet), it's not like as if  I was comparing M16 and AK47 - it's still an AK platform type weapon with the same overall layout and dimensions, so by all means, the overall difference in aesthetics is "slightly". I'm just going to say it advance, if you want to argue where "slightly" begins, I'm not interested, don't waste time on that. And even if the weapon would look completely different to the AKM it would still behave largely the same(I know it has higher ROF and recoil as well as bayonet, spare me) and that's why the devs have decided to not make a Type 56 for the forseeable future, if at all.

 

Edit: Thank you Samogon for your kind words on the matter. Again, I'm not arguing that there are no differences between the two systems, I'm just saying that the overall look is quite similar.

Regarding the BTRs, I said "upgraded", I didn't want to go into depth regarding them, I put it the way I did for the sake of brevity. But you'll have to explain this to me now, how exactly is an improvement from the twin-engine you mentioned to a single engine not an upgrade? That's what an upgrade is.

I thought they added better armour to the BTR-82, at least that was what I had in mind. If not, then I stand corrected.

 

Quote

How does the SKS add variety? It's a single shot, ten round 7.62x39mm rifle that was antiquated during the design process, let alone during adoption. Does it "add variety" because it's single shot? Does it "add variety" because it has to be loaded single-feed or with a stripper clip? Does it "add variety" because it's got a slightly longer barrel, which leads to slightly more favorable ballistics and recoil?

 

Yes, it's single shot only.

Yes, that makes it different, because you have to empty the magazine before you can reload.

Yes, because that coupled with being semi-automatic and only a 10 round magazine means you have to play the weapon differently from the AKM.

 

Compared to that the Type 56 achieves nothing new or extraordinary.

 

Quote

Not to say I don't want an SKS in the game, but to me it really doesn't bring anything groundbreaking, it just adds a weapon that'll force people to play a bit more out of their comfort zone, which is something I think the Type 56 can do as well.

 

You empty the mag a bit faster and you have more recoil. I don't want to argue over semantics, but here again we have a perfect example of "slightly". The SKS plays out "entirely" different.

 

Quote

I look at the PPSh a bit differently: the variety part is obvious, but just like the SKS, how about the authenticity? In this very thread we have a dev telling us about how high of a priority authenticity is to them (or isn't to them depending on how the argument favors their stance on a particular subject), so where is the authenticity of either of these weapons? A handful of photos over the last 15-16 years is more than enough to throw them into the game, but a slough of photos isn't enough for the Type 56? I'm just spitballing here, but maybe the Type 56 isn't similar enough to be worth adding because it requires them to put forth more effort for a weapon that people won't pick up on right away, unlike some casual-CoD eye candy like the PPSh. 

 

Z-Trooper's argument isn't mine. I never brought up authenticity, I brought up the gameplay and what I assume to be the thought process of the resource management  of the Devs, nothing else.

You missing the point I was trying to make entirely.

 

Quote

You see, the idea that the SKS has "good range" is a bit of a joke. They're really not all that much more accurate than the AK and they're more prone to some horrendous failures (such as slam firing) than many other weapons. Unless it's forced upon a role I don't see it adding anything to the game because nobody will use it. Even then, once it's been forced upon a role, how often will people use that role? How big of a difference will there be between that an the AK? Will that difference offer any advantages, or will this simply be a gimp weapon? You can decide on that one yourself, but I'm sure you already know the answer I'd give.

 

Welp, its barrel length is noticeably longer and the limitation to semi-auto makes it a workable substitute when you're lacking an actual DMR. Sure, the cartridge isn't ideal when shooting on range, but that means lower recoil compared to 7.62 RUS and should make it easier to shoot your bullets in close proximity to one another, even if you don't compensate the recoil too well. It all comes down to the player.

And actually, in PR I prefer using the bolt action rifles over the automatic firearms in PR's Insurgency. *shrugs*

 

Quote

My intention isn't to treat anyone like dirt, my intention is to find out a proper reason behind why this weapon isn't being put in and, personally, I'd prefer it be in the form of an intelligent and respectful discourse rather than the name-calling, back-pedaling, and now meme-spouting that's been oh-so-common on one side of this issue. To me, this issue signifies many things, not the least of which is abandoning a core focus for expediency and diversity at the cost of inaccuracy. I don't think it's proper or respectful to have to or to want to call out devs, but at the same time I'm not about to let a dev go by with passive-aggressive comments and a holier-than-thou attitude. I don't understand what's so hard about all of us here having a discussion that doesn't require people to sperg out over how we shouldn't be able to give feedback or suggestions in the feedback/suggestions thread. 

 

To be honest, you're doing a pretty good job of displaying a holier-than-thou attitude yourself. Need examples?

 

Don't get the wrong idea, almost everybody is guilty of this here in this thread, just don't kid yourself into thinking you didn't do anything. It's as I said, the discussion is poisoned and we best have this thread locked and create another one once everybody has been on holiday or whatever.

 

You're being right when mentioning the Type 56 as a perfectly authentic weapon that can spice things up a little.

The Devs are being right when they find it too minute to add and would rather work on a more diverse weaponry to promote different styles of gameplay first and they are limited on manpower.

You're both right, now shake your hands and get along with one another, gee.

 

Quote

Believe you me: I know what the difference is between the BTR-80 and the BTR-82A, my comment was a satire of his previous comment about how the Type 56 and the AKM were totally the exact same in every way: how much you know makes all the difference, and fuck anyone who's excuse boils down to "you have too much knowledge about a particular thing". Just because someone is stupid and doesn't know the difference between x and y, doesn't mean that I can't know the difference and expect that the differences be noted. 

 

Oh, I thought you were geniunely not aware of the differences, my apologies. I know I knew fuck all about vehicles when I first started PR, in fact only two years ago I finally got the hang of differentiating BTRs, BMPs and MTLBs, mostly because I wasn't interested in vehicles before that, but also because I never looked which was what. It wasn't out to belittle you.

 

I am more than aware that having a great number of dedicated and experienced firearm owners can help out the Devs a fuckton, but you don't have to go overboard with your criticism on every little detail is what I would argue. Of course you are correct in your statement, but at one point you should stop, take a look at how you're about to present yourself and your reasoning with the next post you're putting out and think whether or not anybody but yourself would consider your tone as friendly or helpful. If you come across as a bitch(not saying you do, but you're not far off at this point) you can be as correct as you can be, and nobody wants to listen. Again, let's tear this shitty conversation down, and open a new thread in a few weeks time.

 

Quote

"Work was like a stick. It had two ends. When you worked for the knowing you gave them quality; when you worked for a fool you simply gave him eyewash. Otherwise, everybody would have croaked long ago. They all knew that."

 

I don't expect this game to be work done for a fool, nor should anyone accept that this game have work done for a fool. We've got some pretty bright people here who know when something's out of place. Keep calling it out because you're the quality control. 

 

Wouldn't want to have it any other way.

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Fact is, no one wants to discuss such details, because this is just a game, and most people who plays it don't even know the name of the weapons, much less their performance in real life. Nor should them, again because this is a game, not a simulator. Show the picture of all these AK variations to most players and they will say it is a AK, and that's enough for them, they don't have to know the rate of fire or anything, just have fun in the game. So here are some knowledgeable weapon aficionados who can tell if the recoil is different from the real life, and so what? If you think the game is broken because of that, then the problem is with you who can't see that this is a game and not a simulator. Squad is realism by means of communication and teamwork, not by means of authenticity, because most players aren't even capable to notice if something is authentic or not, they are happy to play the game despite inaccuracies, as long as the general feeling seems correct and the game play is fun. FFS, I play PR for 10 years and still haven't managed to learn the name of all vehicles and weapons, and so what, does that make me a worse player then others? I bet not, this is not a competition of who knows more about something, it is about having fun. Some people have fun paying attention to minor details, but it is a minority, because the rest of the world does not have such knowledge nor want to, they want to grab whatever is available and have some good time shooting each other. Going that extra mile just for the sake of authenticity or correctness is not that important at all, so get over it, this is beyond old already.

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19 minutes ago, Zenrique said:

Fact is, no one wants to discuss such details, because this is just a game, and most people who plays it don't even know the name of the weapons, much less their performance in real life. Nor should them, again because this is a game, not a simulator. Show the picture of all these AK variations to most players and they will say it is a AK, and that's enough for them, they don't have to know the rate of fire or anything, just have fun in the game. So here are some knowledgeable weapon aficionados who can tell if the recoil is different from the real life, and so what? If you think the game is broken because of that, then the problem is with you who can't see that this is a game and not a simulator. Squad is realism by means of communication and teamwork, not by means of authenticity, because most players aren't even capable to notice if something is authentic or not, they are happy to play the game despite inaccuracies, as long as the general feeling seems correct and the game play is fun. FFS, I play PR for 10 years and still haven't managed to learn the name of all vehicles and weapons, and so what, does that make me a worse player then others? I bet not, this is not a competition of who knows more about something, it is about having fun. Some people have fun paying attention to minor details, but it is a minority, because the rest of the world does not have such knowledge nor want to, they want to grab whatever is available and have some good time shooting each other. Going that extra mile just for the sake of authenticity or correctness is not that important at all, so get over it, this is beyond old already.

 

It is not my problem you ignored half of work done by PR devs.

 

Let's talk about TrueSky. Imagine, if somebody came to the forums and created a suggestion "Hey, devs, I'd like you to spend money on weather simulation system and work on it for several months!" How many people would support this suggestion? But devs brought this idea by themselves and everybody is happy, because weather simulation is must have for military online FPS promoting communication and teamwork.

 

The game is not broken the way it wasn't broken if character models have 4 fingers on their hands. There weren't any complaints if devs presented "Slow downed Battlefield 2". But they presented "PR successor" and, doesn't matter like you it or not, there is authenticity in PR and that is why some people feel themselves fooled.

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14 minutes ago, ZiGreen said:

 

It is not my problem you ignored half of work done by PR devs.

 

Let's talk about TrueSky. Imagine, if somebody came to the forums and created a suggestion "Hey, devs, I'd like you to spend money on weather simulation system and work on it for several months!" How many people would support this suggestion? But devs brought this idea by themselves and everybody is happy, because weather simulation is must have for military online FPS promoting communication and teamwork.

 

The game is not broken the way it wasn't broken if character models have 4 fingers on their hands. There weren't any complaints if devs presented "Slow downed Battlefield 2". But they presented "PR successor" and, doesn't matter like you it or not, there is authenticity in PR and that is why some people feel themselves fooled.

 

FYI TrueSky is free for OWI.

Edit: and makes the game look a lot better because of improved lighting. Meaning BTR's won't look like plastic in a simple lighting environment with drab light sources.

Edit Edit: Look up spiritual successor. There's a reason they didn't say "sequel" or straight up "successor".

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3 hours ago, IRONXBAY said:

 

A very loud, incessant minority on these forums with their nit-picking attitudes have unfortunately driven away a lot of users from participating here.


I'd argue shitposters like one of those who liked your post drive people away more... When someone's posting habits are so predictable that I can basically predict what a post will read from the first 2 words, are they really contributing to the forum?

at least us "bolt counters" do research and things so you might *learn* something from outs.

 

"

FYI TrueSky is free for OWI.

Edit: and makes the game look a lot better because of improved lighting. Meaning BTR's won't look like plastic in a simple lighting environment with drab light sources.

Edit Edit: Look up spiritual successor. There's a reason they didn't say "sequel" or straight up "successor".

 

spiritual successor means it follows the same spirit as the original, for that, that means authenticity in these affairs

and really people just say "spiritual successor" rather than "successor" because it sounds better.

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Just now, Assifuah said:

 

FYI TrueSky is free for OWI.

Edit: and makes the game look a lot better because of improved lighting. Meaning BTR's won't look like plastic in a simple lighting environment with drab light sources.

Edit Edit: Look up spiritual successor. There's a reason they didn't say "sequel" or straight up "successor".

 

Yep, successor means they are sharing ideas and general flow. You named a reason for implementing such complex feature, which has nothing with communication, teamplay and even includes "simulation". An average player doesn't need it. It will be implemented just because it is so awesome. But when we start to talk about much less complex things, people come to say that money and resources are so restricted we shouldn't even mind some additional assets.

 

As I said, most of people come to this thread just to say "I don't give fuck about it, stop complaining because I don't like to see this thread on the top of forums". I never come to the suggestion threads to say I am personally dislike the idea because it doesn't fit my vision of Squad.

 

To be honest, I don't really care about Type-56, don't like pre-59 AKs. I am almost agree with first Z-trooper's answer in this thread. But I don't like how quick he stopped to eleborate his position and derailed to the "THIS minority".

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PR is authentic? Two words for you: "weapon deviation". Yeah, a huge RANDOM deviation in all weapons, can't get any farther from reality than that. FYI, I supported weapon deviation in pr when they introduced it, given the engine limitations and the game play value it added, while most of my friends complained that it wasn't realistic... So yeah, all weapons in PR have this weird deviation, and guess why? For game play reasons! Yes! The same reasons devs are giving you here for not having this or that weapon or not being totally authentic and correct! Game play will trump realism in squad, as was in PR. PR even had fictional army for years, so quit that talk about pr being authentic, engine limitations wouldn't even allow it to be authentic even if the devs wanted to in the first place.

And truesky being a must have, you are joking right? If not, then you deserve to be memed. Sorry.

The respect in what pr devs did lies in my dedication for the game for 10 years, not in knowing the name of every weapon on vehicle, that would be stupid, again we are not here to compete about knowledge. FFS I even worked a few months as a developer for PR2 in the early days, and translated the manual to Portuguese, much better than just stand on the forum bitching about minor details noone cares about.

I guess it must feel bad to have all this knowledge and noone care about it, I suggest you try a weapon aficionado forum where people would value that more than here. But this is a game, get over it.

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2 minutes ago, Zenrique said:

PR is authentic? Two words for you: "weapon deviation". Yeah, a huge RANDOM deviation in all weapons, can't get any farther from reality than that. FYI, I supported weapon deviation in pr when they introduced it, given the engine limitations and the game play value it added, while most of my friends complained that it wasn't realistic... So yeah, all weapons in PR have this weird deviation, and guess why? For game play reasons! Yes! The same reasons devs are giving you here for not having this or that weapon or not being totally authentic and correct! Game play will trump realism in squad, as was in PR. PR even had fictional army for years, so quit that talk about pr being authentic, engine limitations wouldn't even allow it to be authentic even if the devs wanted to in the first place.

 

I'm sorry, but if you compare the effort of devs in trying to prolong firefights by making players more reliant on tactics instead of instantly sniping people's heads off at 100m, to other developers having incorrect models and textures, wrong weapons and a stubborn attitude towards not fixing these things, than you are beyond help, and just a dev fanboy in general.

Also; " I guess it must feel bad to have all this knowledge and noone care about it"
heh, I guess it must feel bad that you translated the entire manual of PR2 and worked on it for months, and now noone cares.

I still don't know why so many people on this forum get so anally annihilated by others pointing out mistakes in things, when they themselves claim "noone gives a shit about those details its a game ffs".
If noone gives a shit about it, whats it gonna hurt to you if the mistakes are corrected? It wont make the slightest bit of difference to you and its only going to improve the game to people who actually pay attention to details.
 

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Holy crap... You read nothing, you know nothing, you understand nothing.

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9 minutes ago, ZiGreen said:

Holy crap... You read nothing, you know nothing, you understand nothing.

 

That's the community.Blind fanatics,who didn't anything more than devs provide.

Even if Devs are wrong.

 

Actually something like this been in PR,but not THAT much.

 

28 minutes ago, Zenrique said:

PR even had fictional army for years, so quit that talk about pr being authentic, engine limitations wouldn't even allow it to be authentic even if the devs wanted to in the first place.

 

 

I personnaly liked MEC as average middle-east faction.Thats the idea - they crate pretty accurate faction,but all rest - was close to real as much as game allows.

Squad also have fictional faction BTW,called Militia.

Edited by samogon

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12 minutes ago, Avtomat said:

I'm sorry, but if you compare the effort of devs in trying to prolong firefights by making players more reliant on tactics instead of instantly sniping people's heads off at 100m, to other developers having incorrect models and textures, wrong weapons and a stubborn attitude towards not fixing these things, than you are beyond help, and just a dev fanboy in general.

So you actually agree with me that gameplay is more important. Nice, the discussion is moving forward. Now lets tackle the effect of incorrect texture and models on gameplay: can we agree that there is none? It is just visual, and most people who doesn't know weapons in detail wont even notice, right? So why should devs invest in that, instead of on something else that will actually improve the game for most people? It would be much more intelligent to improve the game for most players than to invest time on something few people can even notice. Can you grasp that?

 

12 minutes ago, Avtomat said:

 

 


Also; " I guess it must feel bad to have all this knowledge and noone care about it"
heh, I guess it must feel bad that you translated the entire manual of PR2 and worked on it for months, and now noone cares.

Actually it was PR manual I translated, not PR2's (which was so early in development it didn't have one back then). But anyway, I actually feel fine about that, thanks! At least I made a real effort instead of just venting on the forums, you know?

 

12 minutes ago, Avtomat said:



I still don't know why so many people on this forum get so anally annihilated by others pointing out mistakes in things, when they themselves claim "noone gives a shit about those details its a game ffs".
If noone gives a shit about it, whats it gonna hurt to you if the mistakes are corrected? It wont make the slightest bit of difference to you and its only going to improve the game to people who actually pay attention to details.
 

 

Well, again: devs have a limited time and money so they prefer to invest on other parts of the game which are more important and which brings more value to the most players. But I guess this answer isn't enough for you, because the next thing you will do  call us fanboys and keep on complaining about authenticity.

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Reading this is making my brain hurt :/ What if we could all sit in a circle, hold hands, and sing merry tunes together...

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Deleted.

Edited by ZiGreen
Screw that, I'm done here.

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Much of the game must be built around the details, it is about the little things, the little realistic features that will form an immersive and slow paced game, is there that is the beauty of the game. perhaps these suggested weapons are not appropriate for the moment, and of course these details also are not limited just around the arms, many other aspects of the game are also turned into little details that make the difference, and if the devs are working on them, we need to have patience.
We must remember that the suggestions involving realism, the accuracy of the material, can not be placed in 2nd plan as make up one of the main characteristics of the squad and game premise that a sign can only exist in a more accurate, authentic, realistic and slow paced environment as far as possible, only to be worked at different times. :)

And I was very happy with the Z-trooper's claim that the devs would be fine with 95% of realism and accuracy, what it is certainly a very good value.

Edited by blayas

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1 hour ago, ZiGreen said:
8 minutes ago, ZiGreen said:

 

If you read this thread before jumping into and rocking your glorious "I don't give fuck!", you would know that no one is talking about deviations, ballistics and other bullshit you are bringing into thread consisting of visual fidelity claims mostly. If you tried to learn what people are talking about, why they are talking about, you'd probably knew why the fuck these guys on the top of local shitposters and how did they come to these conclusions.

 

I don't really like to bring this from the dead, but if you are going to talk with smart face about silly nitpickers who don't know basics about deviation and ballistics, there are a lot of threads, where people like me break everything related weapon handling down and most of people if didn't agree at all, but at least find it intersting. Enjoy and tell me more about derivation, reality and balance: 

I don't really care about deviation, it was simply an example of how PR wasn't authentic, thats it. So all this argument that PR was authentic and Squad is not is simply bogus. And you guys have complained about other details besides visuals. Anyway visual correctness adds very little to the gameplay, so it would be better for devs to invest on things that impacts most players instead of just a few knowleadgeble ones. It is that simple.

 

1 hour ago, ZiGreen said:
8 minutes ago, ZiGreen said:

 

I hate to mention it, but I am not going to read about me doing nothing except for bitching. I translate every fucking article, update and recap since the Kickstarter, I'm running the whole russian Squad community, I am an administrator of licensed Squad server and currently one of the main wiki contributors and I'm going to continue to make it without any notes except for people like you come here and try to put me on proper place.

That's exactly what I did when you said I didn't pay respect for PR devs work. So we are on the same page, both of us have passion for PR and Squad, both of us are server admins, translators and thats nice, I respect that. A lot.

 

 

1 hour ago, ZiGreen said:
8 minutes ago, ZiGreen said:

And now I want to return you a favor and tell you something about you: I am not care about your average interests or proud to be a part of majority. I am not interested in your opinion, because you can say nothing beside every accident visiter of this thread can say, they usually go away and everybody quickly forgive about their "opinions". But you continue to bring your second-handed opinions which we are tired to read, moreover, you are trying to teach us about things you are dont' give a fuck. Thus, don't try to send to other forums with your little sending thingy, instead of that just leave this thread, it is not your level, not your interest and you are not worth to be answered here due to your attitude and behaviour.

 

Sorry, this is a public forum, you give your opinion, I give mine, noone should ask for permission to do it, we disagree and move on, thats what forums are for and there is nothing wrong with that. I am not trying to teach you anything, I am simply repeating a fact: devs wont change the game just for the sake of autheticity, they have more important things to do. That is all, really. But what will you do with that information, will you move forward or you keep on complaining and repeating youselves?

 

But yeah, you won't see me discussing weapon details, I dont know shit about it and dont intend to. I rather don't care if you guys want to discuss details, I like reading about it but like I said I know little so I don't have anything to add on that specifics. But we all care about this game in general, so that's why we are here trying to explain to you that it is useless to demand authenticity because devs have said they wont improve weapons beyound a level they think is enough.

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That is why there is no point in participating in such kind of discussions without details knowledge. For example, what if I told you that devs spent additional time and resources to downgrade authenticity from 100% to 95%? Yes, we are not asking them to correct some things and add new, every time we are surprised by something unnessecary and incorrect added without any influence on gameplay. In the same time devs stated that they are consulting with military advisors on every damn thing.

 

There are no open questions which require addition work of development team, like additional assets. The problem is sometimes devs do things which add nothing, but only downgrade authenticity. And when some members of community ask "Why?", devs answer nothing, but continue to talk about military advisors and keeping authenticity.

 

For example, Beretta M9 question is closed. Ural-375D question is closed. Modern SVD furniture question is closed. First question is really hard and irrelevant, so there is no point to spend time on removing an underbarrel rail to make a proper variation of pistol. Ural for russians is placeholder. It is not worth to create a model with slightly different look and identical stats.

 

But other questions are not so easy and can't be answered by community or common sense and devs refuse to answer too. Or maybe you have answers?

 

Anyway, this problem is more complex than just whining nitpickers want devs to make every piece of everything right, so it is not the best move to join this discussion with such generalizations. Thank you for ignoring hostile manner of my previous comment. I am sorry, I was acting innappropriately.

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