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Classic AK-47 and Type 56.

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10 hours ago, Z-trooper said:

Wow, so this thread managed to end up just like every other thread of this type does. Taken over in a circle jerk argument with more assumptions than you can hit with a JDAM.

 

This isn't productive at all despite of what you may think.

 

I was tempted to start replying to some of these allegations and assumptions being thrown around willy nilly, which offends my own and my co-workers honor, but I've wasted enough time on defending my own honor in the past.

 

I'd honestly love to sit down at a round table and share ideas and listen to feedback all day long. But that is what I already do on a daily basis. From a lot more than just the loudest and lengthiest typers out there.

It is easy to proclaim that we are lazy, ignorant or plain just don't want to listen, but that is simply not the truth and many people can testify that the first question that I ask is "name the 3 most annoying things/bugs/features currently in Squad".

 

We know all of the issues people have, in particular the issues people in this thread have.

 

Delete the AK74M with the folding stock. Delete or replace the M9A1 with the M9 because the front rail is too much for your immersion to handle. Delete the KS-23 shotgun, decrease the recoil of the M4. Delete or replace the current BTR-80 with one made by an outside artist that we have no control over the licence of construction of an asset, but we prefer having our own model that we can make 100% to specification and alter as many times as we want going forward over the years. (and no, I'm not the creator of it, and that has been stated nowhere, it is result of the hard work of my brilliant co-worker, Alex).

 

That about cover my listening skills?

I only know this cause it comes up in every single thread by the same few people like a broken record, we know and everyone else knows that too, let them have a chance to give feedback and not be spammed and quoted and text spammed into submission of an agenda to make this some kind of 100% realistic weapons simulator.

 

What annoys me the most is the above, and not that much of the blame is pinned on me. I can handle that, I am just the one that is dumb enough to be a public face and respond to these topics (notice how everyone else has stopped responding to these topics?). I can say that some of these comments heavily affect some developers motivation, there are few encouraging or constructive ones, they are always twisted with a hint of "not good enough" "oh look you did it all wrong again :rolleyes:" or "why this????" and then when getting the "why" there is still arguing despite getting the answers. (Try having someone be like that to you every day at your day job and come out sane).

But it affecting the motivation of my fellow developers isn't actually the worst thing, it is that all threads about a specific weapon or vehicle is ground to a halt and no more useful feedback happens past the text spam of harshly worded and intimidating language that keeps being quoted back at people until they yield.

 

And finally, we use our military advisers on nearly every damn thing. They do their job perfectly. They advise us, they don't dictate us. They are exceptionally great at what they do, but having served in the armed forces doesn't automatically qualify you as a game designer.

 

This is not some kind of grand conspiracy, this is game development damn it. We need to develop a damn game. I wouldn't expect you guys to understand that part, but I need to say it, developer tag or not.

 

Lastly, let me re-iterate this one last time, loud and clear just to make sure you understand it.

 

For you guys that want 100% realism or authenticity down to the last nut and bolt on a gun or vehicle - you won't get it with Squad (oh no! how dare he!?!). If we get things 95% correct we are more than happy on our end.

 

If you want it to be 100% accurate, start or support a mod that does exactly what it is that you want. IF you guys really think that you represent the vast majority of our community you will be doing us a favor. If not, well then no harm done - you made some friendships and learned some new skills.

In a mod you can delete as many of our failed models as you wish and add as many 100% accurate models instead of our 95%'ers as you want. You can even take away the fictional factions (yes we have two of them! squad isn't real, its a game!) and replace them with real ones with real loadouts exactly how you see fit. No lazy or ignorant developer will stand in your way of crafting the experience that you always wanted.

 

There, I ended up doing this for 45 minutes instead of creating vehicle wrecks. (Yes, doing one thing actually excludes doing another when the team is this small).

 

Yet I know that this lengthy post will end up accomplishing absolutely nothing, and to prove it, I will leave this thread open.

 

EDIT: 

I'm sorry for "crying" again Varenyky, I'm the false king and you are the victim here.

Seriously, consider this a warning - STOP throwing accusations around, especially when they are based on assumptions.

 

You have gotten way more leeway than most people on these boards because you are loud and you exhaust people into submission, and I'm sick of seeing you get away with it.

And stop belittling other peoples post with framing it as "crying" (whether the posts are mine or someone elses!) cause we both know that if I was to label your posts as crying over certain weapons or recoil, you would quote me until the day I died and wear it as a badge of martyrdom on these forums.

 

I know you don't like me or the way I work (yet you give me credit for a lot more of the "evil" and "wrong" things than I personally do, but so be it). I know you dislike me, the whole damn forum knows you dislike me. Move on.

 

 

Z-Trooper, sorry but again you answered nonexistent questions. Are you really think we are so stupid and can't get the difference between reality and game? Do you think we don't know Squad development priorities? The thing is, we don't get answers for question which were actually answered.

 

Inb4 you will start to defend yourself, you already have given some good answers for certain questions. Nobody asked about M9 or SVD furniture anymore, everybody undestood that you aknowledged about these really minor issues.

 

What else? Ural-375D. There were questions, there was answer. Community knows it is a placeholder. Everyone is happy.

 

1. You know about AK-74M with metal stock. Cool, but what's next? Considering your advisers allow team to make 100% of authenticity (talking about AK-74M, cause you made great AK-74s and AK-74M), what was the reason for you to downgrade it to 95% by creating one more incorrect model? It doesn't really hurt me, stock is not a big deal. I just want to understand your methods better. Was it done for diversity? Or you wanted to make russian medic more distinctive, like US medic with foregrip? Or you just wanted to see AK-74M with metal stock in-game, although it is not on the same level as other AK models?

 

2. BTR-80. You know perfectly what we are talking about. Nobody said you should replace the model. You could properly reject it, but FishMan was simply "forgotten", as well as his offer. BTR gave a top class detailed feedback, which was totally ignored. Doesn't his thread even earn a short answer like "Don't have time on fixing" or "Will fix later"? In the same time you are answering in tons of Reddit threads, which are duplicate each other and old forums ones.

 

3. "Decrease recoil". The last time I tried to create really detailed and helpful (considering on amount of positive comments from community) feedback about recoil, it was ignored. Thanks.

 

4. About using advisers on every damn thing. I won't believe Nosferatu recommend you to make a 10x commercial bino for russians as counterpart to US Mil-spec 7x. Sure it was your decision, but what was the reason to spend the same amount of time to make 50% instead 100%? It won't prevent me from playing, but I don't see any sense in this decision.

 

5. About KS-23. You are strongly any changes. Why? Just because you can? I hope not. It was made in the name of balance, of course. You, guys, stated many times, that you are not going to make factions absolutely identifical, but factions should have approximately equal possibilities. Shotgun or breaching possibilities? You want to have shotgun guy or kit capable of CQB and urban assault? There are tons of methods to blow the shit out from doors, gates, windows etc. Explosive charges, for example. Again, there is the whole thread about equipment which could compensate lack of shotgun, thread with photos and descriptions. We think it would be really cool to make this aspect assymetrical and authentic in the same time. Does it require too much work to combine IED mechanics with door breaching mechanics, or you afraid Breacher will be less effective in CQB? I really want to know, please, could you explain this moment as game designer?

 

Moreover, during the stream Lito said you are looking for different options, like ramming etc. Have you rejected this mechanics?

 

Or, maybe it is possible to make Internal Troops / RosGuard faction for battles against irregular forces? Not only because of KS-23, it is a great possibility to make a new faction without serious efforts.

 

Simple, clear questions, without accusations or insults, asked many times but never answered. Not general "Why soooo unrealistic" or "why don't you spend additional 9000 hours on this button". Simple, SPECIFIC questions. I'll be really glad to see specific answers.

 

Looks like I tried to dublicate last Varenyky's posts, but he perfectly described the reason of this conflict.

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and in addition to ZiGreen.

Why M939.It's cool truck for cold war - mid 2000,but it's not really modern.FMTV replaces it.And replaces much rapidly than KAMAZ replaces URALs for example.

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Just now, samogon said:

and in addition to ZiGreen.

Why M939.It's cool truck for cold war - mid 2000,but it's not really modern.FMTV replaces it.And replaces much rapidly than KAMAZ replaces URALs for example.

 

As you see, dear community, we are asking simple and specific questions. No offense, no insulting. Threads are getting hotter, because we get simple and specific answers very rarely or don't get answers at all. 

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29 minutes ago, ZiGreen said:

 

As you see, dear community, we are asking simple and specific questions. No offense, no insulting. Threads are getting hotter, because we get simple and specific answers very rarely or don't get answers at all. 

 

You and Samogon aren't the problem. A few people seem to put the devs off of using the forum at all, so of course when there is constructive feedback there's rarely a response since they either don't read it or don't post to avoid a shitstorm coming down upon them from the less mature parts of the community.

 

Hopefully we can get past this and make the forum great again.

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13 minutes ago, Stom said:

 

You and Samogon aren't the problem. A few people seem to put the devs off of using the forum at all, so of course when there is constructive feedback there's rarely a response since they either don't read it or don't post to avoid a shitstorm coming down upon them from the less mature parts of the community.

 

Hopefully we can get past this and make the forum great again.

 

As a relative of Donald Trump I find using his campaign slogan against me all the more hurtful. 

 

Seriously though, I think this thread is a great point to turn things around overall. I think my last message was clear and concise as to what I consider necessary to show the Z more respect, and that's respect in return as well as insight. 

 

Also thanks ZiGreen for being me again, we both know we're the same person, after all. 

Edited by VarenykySupreme

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I want to ask mods to change my title from Company Commander to "Varenyky's evil russian twin".

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An AK-47/Type 56 is the last weapon I want to see developed for the Insurgents/Militia... we have enough Kalashnikovs already :)

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mfw AKM=AK47 except for how the receiver is made -_- Literally no real cosmetic or caliber differences... 

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1 hour ago, mazadu said:

mfw AKM=AK47 except for how the receiver is made -_- Literally no real cosmetic or caliber differences... 

 

AK and AKM are Fire and Ice.

Casuals are never see diffirence between it.But they exists.

Which diffirence between AK and AKM:

-New reciever.Decreaces weight firm 4.5kg to 3.3kg.

-Muzzle brake.A small cut on the edge which cheap and effectivly reduce recoil almost 2 times.

-Changed sight.Increased distance ajustment form 800meters to 1kilometer.

-Improved Firing mechanism.Increases accuracy.

-Diffirent shape of buttstock.

-Ability to use PBS-1 Silencer of muzzle attachments(Which appears only now.)

 

I count 6 diffirences,4 of them are visible.I know,it's not too much visible as diffirence between M16A1 to A2,but still.You're seriously mistaken.

Edited by samogon

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8 hours ago, Aniallator said:

An AK-47/Type 56 is the last weapon I want to see developed for the Insurgents/Militia... we have enough Kalashnikovs already :)

 

Then what would you rather see? 

 

6 hours ago, mazadu said:

mfw AKM=AK47 except for how the receiver is made -_- Literally no real cosmetic or caliber differences... 

 

Yeah, no cosmetic differences at all, right?

 

AK:

 

T3_fullstock.jpg

 

AKM:

 

ar10100-BD.jpg

 

Man, I can't see any difference at all!

 

4 hours ago, samogon said:

 

AK and AKM are Fire and Ice.

Casuals are never see diffirence between it.But they exists.

Which diffirence between AK and AKM:

-New reciever.Decreaces weight firm 4.5kg to 3.3kg.

-Muzzle brake.A small cut on the edge which cheap and effectivly reduce recoil almost 2 times.

-Changed sight.Increased distance ajustment form 800meters to 1kilometer.

-Improved Firing mechanism.Increases accuracy.

-Diffirent shape of buttstock.

-Ability to use PBS-1 Silencer of muzzle attachments(Which appears only now.)

 

I count 6 diffirences,4 of them are visible.I know,it's not too much visible as diffirence between M16A1 to A2,but still.You're seriously mistaken.

 

You're forgetting:

 

  1. Different pistol grip ( wood with metal reinforcement -> bakelite)
  2. Slightly different fire selector
  3. Different dust cover (flat -> ribbed)
  4. Different bolt/carrier ( unfinished metal to black finish and a slightly different shape, iirc)
  5. Different magazines (though interchangable, original mags were flat metal, new ones are ribbed)
  6. Different trunion mount
  7. Different handguard (flat -> palm swell) 
  8. Different gas tube (ribbed + vented -> ribbed)
  9. Different front sight post (fat -> thin)

These are more obscure changes, but still things you can see visually. There are others I'm forgetting, I'm sure, but there's no point listing them over and over because even with all the differences I don't feel like it's worth putting the original Type-variant AKs in the game.

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1 hour ago, VarenykySupreme said:

Then what would you rather see?

 

RPD, SMLE, Mosin, FAL, even some of the more antique MP5s... I can dream, can't I?

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1 hour ago, Aniallator said:

 

RPD, SMLE, Mosin, FAL, even some of the more antique MP5s... I can dream, can't I?

 

You can dream, but this goes back to the argument of authenticity, and that's where these dreams fail. 

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12 minutes ago, VarenykySupreme said:

 

You can dream, but this goes back to the argument of authenticity, and that's where these dreams fail. 

 

The RPD, SMLE, Mosin, and FAL have seen use with the Taliban. At one point or another, I'm sure a mujahideen got his hands on an MP5 as well.

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4 hours ago, Aniallator said:

 

The RPD, SMLE, Mosin, and FAL have seen use with the Taliban. At one point or another, I'm sure a mujahideen got his hands on an MP5 as well.

 

The RPD is an extremely uncommon weapon all over the world, the SMLE and Mosin have been seen and used but nowhere near as much as people want to believe, and the FAL and MP5 have had damn near no presence. 

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6 hours ago, VarenykySupreme said:

 

The RPD is an extremely uncommon weapon all over the world, the SMLE and Mosin have been seen and used but nowhere near as much as people want to believe, and the FAL and MP5 have had damn near no presence. 

 

All over the world, yes, but a fair number of RPDs have seen use in Taliban hands. Bolt-action rifles - the Mosin and SMLE being the most common - have seen more use than you give them credit for. FALs have been seen used by the Taliban, though I'm sure they're pretty uncommon. MP5 is a personal wish more than anything, that gun had the best f*cking sound in PR.

 

Former Taliban fighters hand over their weapons in 2014. That's an RPD on the right, and far right can be seen a bolt-action rifle.

 

afghanistan-2014-6months-007-L.jpg

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1 hour ago, Aniallator said:

 

All over the world, yes, but a fair number of RPDs have seen use in Taliban hands. Bolt-action rifles - the Mosin and SMLE being the most common - have seen more use than you give them credit for. FALs have been seen used by the Taliban, though I'm sure they're pretty uncommon. MP5 is a personal wish more than anything, that gun had the best f*cking sound in PR.

 

Former Taliban fighters hand over their weapons in 2014. That's an RPD on the right, and far right can be seen a bolt-action rifle.

 

afghanistan-2014-6months-007-L.jpg

 

RPD's are used more by poor militaries in Africa and the Middle East.

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22 hours ago, VarenykySupreme said:

 

The RPD is an extremely uncommon weapon all over the world, the SMLE and Mosin have been seen and used but nowhere near as much as people want to believe, and the FAL and MP5 have had damn near no presence. 

 

RPD's are common in Afghanistan, the Soviets left huge stocks of those things behind once they withdrew from the Soviet invasion. 

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29 minutes ago, I_hate_usernames said:

 

RPD's are common in Afghanistan, the Soviets left huge stocks of those things behind once they withdrew from the Soviet invasion. 

 

AK,SKS,RPD -> AKM,RPK -> AK74,RPK-74/AKS-74,RPKS -> AK-74M,RPK-74M

 

Soviet in A-Stan primay used RPK and RPK-74.The times,when RPD been used are passed.

There was some older weapons,like SKS or Mosin,but it was only exception from the rule.They was a trophes or self-defence weapons of non-combat units.

Jhd-q2TgxJ8.jpg

 

 

 

Edited by samogon

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My 2cents on the whole "AK variation" thing. 

 

I've found it very frustrating when developers (in general, not pointing fingers.) will go out of their way to add several models of the AR-15 platform, but many of them will only ever add on "Generic" AK and most of the time, portray that incorrectly as well. Look at the battlefield, CoD and MoH series, they all have 4+ platforms of M4's or M16's but will only have one AK platform, most of the time with incorrect housing, western optics etc. Project Reality (And to some extent, squad) corrected that, allowing for varied and authentic AK variations in game, for once AK had gotten the same treatment that M4's and the like got! 

 

Now people who play squad are seeing this and going "Hey these guys are really cool, they're adding variation" and coming on these forums and going "Hey, I like what you've done with AK's, could we please have some more." No one here is requesting things to spite you, we're requesting thing because they're loving what you got so far! To reply with a bunch of snark and "Do it yourself" is a really dick move on your behalf. If you're sick of doing AK variations , all you needed to do was say and leave it be, but don't insult and generalise people, especially if they are just correcting your mistakes. You said that there was no reason to add the AK-47/Type-56 and then once people corrected you, wasted (Even admittedly) 45 minutes telling people who disagree with you to basically f**k off. 

 

Also, don't just go around telling people "Mod it if you don't like it" stop being Bethesda, this is especially true as you haven't released a weapon and faction SDK yet, or finished with the games content, so there is no point in modding right now unless it's for a full conversion mod. Second of all, if you don't include it, yeah we probably will mod it, especially once content is finalized and the player base settles in. Integrate some form of modding support or curation and boom, you don't need to do the modeling all by yourself! 

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38 minutes ago, samogon said:

 

AK,SKS,RPD -> AKM,RPK -> AK74,RPK-74/AKS-74,RPKS -> AK-74M,RPK-74M

 

Soviet in A-Stan primay used RPK and RPK-74.The times,when RPD been used are passed.

There was some older weapons,like SKS or Mosin,but it was only exception from the rule.They was a trophes or self-defence weapons of non-combat units.

Jhd-q2TgxJ8.jpg

 

 

 

 

Probably were hand-me-downs for the Afgan national forces, alot of them were also probably Chinese produced duplicates used by the former Mujad 

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54 minutes ago, I_hate_usernames said:

 

Probably were hand-me-downs for the Afgan national forces, alot of them were also probably Chinese produced duplicates used by the former Mujad 

 

definitely not Soviet,because even if they used that,it was limited.

Mujahedeen had Chinice supply lines BTW,so thats makes sence.

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31 minutes ago, I_hate_usernames said:

My 2cents on the whole "AK variation" thing. 

 

I've found it very frustrating when developers (in general, not pointing fingers.) will go out of their way to add several models of the AR-15 platform, but many of them will only ever add on "Generic" AK and most of the time, portray that incorrectly as well. Look at the battlefield, CoD and MoH series, they all have 4+ platforms of M4's or M16's but will only have one AK platform, most of the time with incorrect housing, western optics etc. Project Reality (And to some extent, squad) corrected that, allowing for varied and authentic AK variations in game, for once AK had gotten the same treatment that M4's and the like got! 

 

Now people who play squad are seeing this and going "Hey these guys are really cool, they're adding variation" and coming on these forums and going "Hey, I like what you've done with AK's, could we please have some more." No one here is requesting things to spite you, we're requesting thing because they're loving what you got so far! To reply with a bunch of snark and "Do it yourself" is a really dick move on your behalf. If you're sick of doing AK variations , all you needed to do was say and leave it be, but don't insult and generalise people, especially if they are just correcting your mistakes. You said that there was no reason to add the AK-47/Type-56 and then once people corrected you, wasted (Even admittedly) 45 minutes telling people who disagree with you to basically f**k off. 

 

Also, don't just go around telling people "Mod it if you don't like it" stop being Bethesda, this is especially true as you haven't released a weapon and faction SDK yet, or finished with the games content, so there is no point in modding right now unless it's for a full conversion mod. Second of all, if you don't include it, yeah we probably will mod it, especially once content is finalized and the player base settles in. Integrate some form of modding support or curation and boom, you don't need to do the modeling all by yourself! 

 

Promising epic and fundamental things, like vehicles, advanced player movement and environment interaction, combined warfare, complex building system, and being sure they won't find time to make a certain gun model during next 2 years.

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