Jump to content
YuriIsLoveYuriIsLife

Classic AK-47 and Type 56.

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, IWI-GALIL5.56FA said:

 

So the only difference is looks, less control, and a bayonet? Ya... like Z said, not worth their fucking time. Would rather be flying a chopper around or driving vehicles... not wasting time on non-game breaking shit.

 

Why is it that when a suggestion like mine is made, it's always assumed they want this or that OVER vehicles? Geez, it's just that, a SUGGESTION. One that you can store in the back for later usage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Assifuah said:

 

I'm well aware authenticity not being the same as realism... I've been stating this in these forums since I signed up! Hence the /////////////.

 

How can he even give you that answer though? Don't you see the fact that the whole team has other things prioritised? If they're running anything similar to SCRUM / agile development then it's quite obvious that nothing else exists other than the current tasks which means, even if they wanted to, they're not at that bridge to cross and answer these questions.

 

Who said the models are perfect? They're great, but they're not perfect. In fact, we constantly discuss and comment on the art related side of development within Discord. Nothing is perfect. You can also go have a look at Escape From Tarkov - their art (weapons / vehicles / interiors) is fucking amazing but it's easy to spot mistakes and errors. To you that might seem trivial because you probably won't notice it - to someone who spends their time making game art... big deal. Sure, it's worth griping over but it definitely isn't worth throwing shade and bringing exterior claims such as not recommending the game to 1,400 people. That's a statement you make as a power play to try and intimidate the thought process.

 

I realise, and I saw the BTR-80. However, that's not how it goes in game development. There's plenty of guys in this community itself that could throw stellar AAA quality content at the devs for free but it just doesn't work like that. That would go into the outsourcing sector, plus I'm pretty sure the BTR-80 was just the high poly mesh. AT THE TIME, that could have been irrelevant. So you're saying the PPSh (a weapon) is a waste of resources and less important than other weapons they could've been working on? I think that's a matter of personal opinion right there, so I can't really dive into that one.

 

You're right, it doesn't guarantee fixes. It's no different from people asking for snipers though. That request is still as legitimate as the request for fully authentic assets.... yet we look down on those people who constantly request them? Even if the answer is a hard and cold no or "not planning on it". Oh yeah for sure, this thread is long overdue a proper burial. :P

 

I'm not a fan of reddit, that's for sure... but it's not about fucking (verb) feedback. It's about going to a place that sparks creative discussion and conversations than can lead to actual productive outcomes and ideas. What exactly is most of this thread doing? (OP is fine, I really see no problem it's just a suggestion but the stances others have taken.. I'm not so fine with that). This thread is negative purely because of the fact it hasn't generated anything productive, positive or idea based. No developer, especially during their development cycle, wants to see this.

 

I still don't view it as laziness though. It's not as if they don't have anything else to do. If that was the fact, yeah it's open season on the devs because they ain't doing shit... but they're working on things. I see your point, this could all have been avoided if you heard something like "No, not now we'll do it later" instead of "No" but really now... like I said, no different from people asking for snipers or 2 man recon squads and some of those threads have definitely received just "no" from devs yet there's no issues there.

 

You still fail to address the fact that the Type 56 adds to all three categories rather than detracting from gameplay to add to authenticity.

 

Now you're assuming that they have a development style that only has the current tasks on the table? Seems to me like they've laid out a timeline and everything so they know pretty well what they want to do with the game. Even if they don't and are running a SCRUM development, then they could at the least say "we don't know about adding this/we'll talk it over" rather than a flat out "no, and here's a deflection rather than an answer as to why we're not doing it". 

 

I work a lot with AKs and ARs and all sorts of weapons because I'm an avid shooter; hell, I've got an AK74, a PM md.63, and my AR sitting right next to me so of course I notice errors in models for both games and point them out, but saying the models are perfect is sarcasm. What I'm trying to say is that the models dare not be questions simply because they're good enough, and any questioning about problems ends with the dev's response being "so what?" rather than "yeah we need to work on it". It's perfect in that it's good enough that the lead artist seems to be content with never touching the subject again, or at least that's the feeling he gives off to me and clearly several other people here. Hell, he even knows it because he's acknowledged that several people (can you guess who? I can) won't stop bringing up errors or problems, as if that's some sort of problem in and of itself.

 

The statement I made is the truth, though it's also a power play to show the typical "watch who you're talking to" spiel. I've got a bunch of people I'd love to play this game with, but I'm not going to recommend it to anyone if the devs don't feel like providing answers to issues that I and other people have. Rather than playing hardass "yeah fuck you guys for wanting answers", why not just give answers or just say you don't have one? If there was no answer, I'd be perfectly content to touch on the subject occasionally to check progress and nothing else. The point is: be nice to your community and your community will reward you; act like an asshat and your community will leave you hanging, and right now, hanging is my choice. 

 

The problem is that Z-Trooper is the one who got in contact with Fish and then dropped it without sending him any further down the line. If that falls into outsourcing, then he should've properly directed him to someone to talk to rather than left him hanging. Also, from what I remember it was a model, not a mesh. The dude was a modeller for Wargaming and worked on World of Tanks for half a year or so, after all. 

 

The PPSh is less of a personal opinion and more back to the point of authenticity. It's not a very authentic weapons because, while they're there, they're not there in any great capacity. It's like when people see pictures of Mosin Nagants in Syria and sperg out like they're the greatest rifle ever: they exist there, but the numbers are so few that what you saw you'll not see again for a long time. You can find plenty of Type 56s in pictures throughout the Middle East, but how many different PPShs are you going to find? Of all the combat veterans I know, only a single one of them ever got his hands on a PPSh, and he was in Fallujah, so that's not really a surprise. 

 

The reason sniper requests are looked down upon is because they go against the very core and fabric of Squad, whereas the Type 56 doesn't go against gameplay or the idea of Squad in any way. I don't look down upon snipers because they're requested a lot; I dislike snipers because every sniper on my team is one less effective soldier in combat. It's like the people who request two man squads or SF squads: here we go again with the CoD bullshit to break up and specialize squads in a way that handicaps the team. I don't know about you, but I've never thought of the Type 56 as a handicap.

 

You can say that it's not about feedback, but last time a dev commented about their presence on Reddit it was because of Feedback and nothing else. They specifically stated that this place is way too negative to be on all the time and they don't want the extreme negativity without any praise. Does this place lack praise? Well, in the feedback section it probably does because this place seems to be extremely ignored by the the devs. Hell, the only discussion that ever lead anywhere with the devs was in a private message, and that was after a good solid month of making posts about it here in the feedback section as well as a well done thread by ZiGreen explaining why the recoil system should be changed up to be more intuitive rather than "make the screen jump up". I've said it before and I'll say it again: Why even have a feedback section if you don't listen to it? It's no secret to anyone that we're ignored here. We get the occasional reply from a forum moderator or a dev, but the moderators have no power and the devs avoid this place like the plague because God forbid we have a linear discussion rather than Reddit's "upvote the popular, downvote the negative opinions" tripe. 

 

This thread has festered and become negative because, as it has happened before, Z-Trooper came in and cried. Want to see another perfect example of that? Look for the suggestion thread about VBIEDs. I'm sure you'll find all five pages of really, really great discussion about the implementation of one of everyone's favorite features from PR, then a post by Z-Trooper shitting on the idea, then questions, then Z-Trooper crying that everyone is being mean to him by asking him questions followed by locking the thread. This has become so fucking routine with ideas that go against what he wants that I'm not even surprised anymore. In fact, I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked already and that I haven't been banned because I dare speak out and say that there's a serious problem with devs not working with their community to make a better game that all can enjoy. 

 

There are things that deserve a definitive no, such as ideas that go against the core gameplay of Squad, but there are also ideas that are worth listening to, hearing out, and considering rather than just saying no. Unfortunately, with Z-Trooper here, I always know what answer I'm going to get. It'll always be no, and it'll never have a reason. At least the time I've butted heads with Ross there has been something behind his reasoning that I can understand and a reason to trust him, but with Z-Trooper it's more like a king lauding over his captive audience. 

 

When I say laziness, I don't mean lazy as in they're doing nothing else. I understand they've got a lot on their plate and they're doing a lot of work daily, but at the same time it's lazy to respond with the equivalent of "I don't want to" and there's no way to beat around that. That's not a proper excuse and it shouldn't be accepted as one. If my boss told me to keep doing my usual job and take on some of the roles of my coworker's job (what I'm doing this week) because he's sick, what do you think he'd do if I told him "no, I don't want to?" Do you think he'd find someone else? Yeah, someone else to fill the newly freed up role on the roster after firing my ass. I wouldn't be lazy either, because my current job sees me working a lot, but it would still be lazy of me to tell him no. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, so this thread managed to end up just like every other thread of this type does. Taken over in a circle jerk argument with more assumptions than you can hit with a JDAM.

 

This isn't productive at all despite of what you may think.

 

I was tempted to start replying to some of these allegations and assumptions being thrown around willy nilly, which offends my own and my co-workers honor, but I've wasted enough time on defending my own honor in the past.

 

I'd honestly love to sit down at a round table and share ideas and listen to feedback all day long. But that is what I already do on a daily basis. From a lot more than just the loudest and lengthiest typers out there.

It is easy to proclaim that we are lazy, ignorant or plain just don't want to listen, but that is simply not the truth and many people can testify that the first question that I ask is "name the 3 most annoying things/bugs/features currently in Squad".

 

We know all of the issues people have, in particular the issues people in this thread have.

 

Delete the AK74M with the folding stock. Delete or replace the M9A1 with the M9 because the front rail is too much for your immersion to handle. Delete the KS-23 shotgun, decrease the recoil of the M4. Delete or replace the current BTR-80 with one made by an outside artist that we have no control over the licence of construction of an asset, but we prefer having our own model that we can make 100% to specification and alter as many times as we want going forward over the years. (and no, I'm not the creator of it, and that has been stated nowhere, it is result of the hard work of my brilliant co-worker, Alex).

 

That about cover my listening skills?

I only know this cause it comes up in every single thread by the same few people like a broken record, we know and everyone else knows that too, let them have a chance to give feedback and not be spammed and quoted and text spammed into submission of an agenda to make this some kind of 100% realistic weapons simulator.

 

What annoys me the most is the above, and not that much of the blame is pinned on me. I can handle that, I am just the one that is dumb enough to be a public face and respond to these topics (notice how everyone else has stopped responding to these topics?). I can say that some of these comments heavily affect some developers motivation, there are few encouraging or constructive ones, they are always twisted with a hint of "not good enough" "oh look you did it all wrong again :rolleyes:" or "why this????" and then when getting the "why" there is still arguing despite getting the answers. (Try having someone be like that to you every day at your day job and come out sane).

But it affecting the motivation of my fellow developers isn't actually the worst thing, it is that all threads about a specific weapon or vehicle is ground to a halt and no more useful feedback happens past the text spam of harshly worded and intimidating language that keeps being quoted back at people until they yield.

 

And finally, we use our military advisers on nearly every damn thing. They do their job perfectly. They advise us, they don't dictate us. They are exceptionally great at what they do, but having served in the armed forces doesn't automatically qualify you as a game designer.

 

This is not some kind of grand conspiracy, this is game development damn it. We need to develop a damn game. I wouldn't expect you guys to understand that part, but I need to say it, developer tag or not.

 

Lastly, let me re-iterate this one last time, loud and clear just to make sure you understand it.

 

For you guys that want 100% realism or authenticity down to the last nut and bolt on a gun or vehicle - you won't get it with Squad (oh no! how dare he!?!). If we get things 95% correct we are more than happy on our end.

 

If you want it to be 100% accurate, start or support a mod that does exactly what it is that you want. IF you guys really think that you represent the vast majority of our community you will be doing us a favor. If not, well then no harm done - you made some friendships and learned some new skills.

In a mod you can delete as many of our failed models as you wish and add as many 100% accurate models instead of our 95%'ers as you want. You can even take away the fictional factions (yes we have two of them! squad isn't real, its a game!) and replace them with real ones with real loadouts exactly how you see fit. No lazy or ignorant developer will stand in your way of crafting the experience that you always wanted.

 

There, I ended up doing this for 45 minutes instead of creating vehicle wrecks. (Yes, doing one thing actually excludes doing another when the team is this small).

 

Yet I know that this lengthy post will end up accomplishing absolutely nothing, and to prove it, I will leave this thread open.

 

EDIT: 

I'm sorry for "crying" again Varenyky, I'm the false king and you are the victim here.

Seriously, consider this a warning - STOP throwing accusations around, especially when they are based on assumptions.

 

You have gotten way more leeway than most people on these boards because you are loud and you exhaust people into submission, and I'm sick of seeing you get away with it.

And stop belittling other peoples post with framing it as "crying" (whether the posts are mine or someone elses!) cause we both know that if I was to label your posts as crying over certain weapons or recoil, you would quote me until the day I died and wear it as a badge of martyrdom on these forums.

 

I know you don't like me or the way I work (yet you give me credit for a lot more of the "evil" and "wrong" things than I personally do, but so be it). I know you dislike me, the whole damn forum knows you dislike me. Move on.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@VarenykySupreme Just about everything I was about to reply with... Z-Trooper just covered it, lol. I really have nothing more to say.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Z-trooper said:

Wow, so this thread managed to end up just like every other thread of this type does. Taken over in a circle jerk argument with more assumptions than you can hit with a JDAM.

 

This isn't productive at all despite of what you may think.

 

I was tempted to start replying to some of these allegations and assumptions being thrown around willy nilly, which offends my own and my co-workers honor, but I've wasted enough time on defending my own honor in the past.

 

I'd honestly love to sit down at a round table and share ideas and listen to feedback all day long. But that is what I already do on a daily basis. From a lot more than just the loudest and lengthiest typers out there.

It is easy to proclaim that we are lazy, ignorant or plain just don't want to listen, but that is simply not the truth and many people can testify that the first question that I ask is "name the 3 most annoying things/bugs/features currently in Squad".

 

We know all of the issues people have, in particular the issues people in this thread have.

 

Delete the AK74M with the folding stock. Delete or replace the M9A1 with the M9 because the front rail is too much for your immersion to handle. Delete the KS-23 shotgun, decrease the recoil of the M4. Delete or replace the current BTR-80 with one made by an outside artist that we have no control over the licence of construction of an asset, but we prefer having our own model that we can make 100% to specification and alter as many times as we want going forward over the years. (and no, I'm not the creator of it, and that has been stated nowhere, it is result of the hard work of my brilliant co-worker, Alex).

 

That about cover my listening skills?

I only know this cause it comes up in every single thread by the same few people like a broken record, we know and everyone else knows that too, let them have a chance to give feedback and not be spammed and quoted and text spammed into submission of an agenda to make this some kind of 100% realistic weapons simulator.

 

What annoys me the most is the above, and not that much of the blame is pinned on me. I can handle that, I am just the one that is dumb enough to be a public face and respond to these topics (notice how everyone else has stopped responding to these topics?). I can say that some of these comments heavily affect some developers motivation, there are few encouraging or constructive ones, they are always twisted with a hint of "not good enough" "oh look you did it all wrong again :rolleyes:" or "why this????" and then when getting the "why" there is still arguing despite getting the answers. (Try having someone be like that to you every day at your day job and come out sane).

But it affecting the motivation of my fellow developers isn't actually the worst thing, it is that all threads about a specific weapon or vehicle is ground to a halt and no more usual feedback happens past the text spam of harshly worded and intimidating language that keeps being quoted back at people until they yield.

 

And finally, we use our military advisers on nearly every damn thing. They do their job perfectly. They advise us, they don't dictate us. They are exceptionally great at what they do, but having served in the armed forces doesn't automatically qualify you as a game designer.

 

This is not some kind of grand conspiracy, this is game development damn it. We need to develop a damn game. I wouldn't expect you guys to understand that part, but I need to say it, developer tag or not.

 

Lastly, let me re-iterate this one last time, loud and clear just to make sure you understand it.

 

For you guys that want 100% realism or authenticity down to the last nut and bolt on a gun or vehicle - you won't get it with Squad (oh no! how dare he!?!). If we get things 95% correct we are more than happy on our end.

 

If you want it to be 100% accurate, start or support a mod that does exactly what it is that you want. IF you guys really think that you represent the vast majority of our community you will be doing us a favor. If not, well then no harm done - you made some friendships and learned some new skills.

In a mod you can delete as many of our failed models as you wish and add as many 100% accurate models instead of our 95%'ers as you want. You can even take away the fictional factions (yes we have two of them! squad isn't real, its a game!) and replace them with real ones with real loadouts exactly how you see fit. No lazy or ignorant developer will stand in your way of crafting the experience that you always wanted.

 

There, I ended up doing this for 45 minutes instead of creating vehicle wrecks. (Yes, doing one thing actually excludes doing another when the team is this small).

 

Yet I know that this lengthy post will end up accomplishing absolutely nothing, and to prove it, I will leave this thread open.

 

I have to go to work so I'll write a proper response when I get home, but I'll say this now: if you spent half as much time and effort properly communicating issues to the community as you did reading comments, getting angry, and posting rants, then none of this negativity would fester the way it does. We're all here to make Squad better, but nobody is going to be happy without answers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, VarenykySupreme said:

 

I have to go to work so I'll write a proper response when I get home, but I'll say this now: if you spent half as much time and effort properly communicating issues to the community as you did reading comments, getting angry, and posting rants, then none of this negativity would fester the way it does. We're all here to make Squad better, but nobody is going to be happy without answers. 

 

Way to come of like a totaly doucebag, When will you understand that Squad cannot satify everones tiniest gun-fetish, so if you really want it so bad, why dont you just make it yourself?? its a reason why they made this game moddable.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can't believe this thread is still going. Like Z-Trooper said, this isn't feedback at this point. It's just a few guys saying "This is what I want," and the devs say, "We hear ya. that's not in our plan, but you're welcome to mod it!" and the response is, "but I really really want it," followed by "uh, nope, sorry. You can still mod it though."

 

Rinse and repeat. Next time, just give your feedback. If the devs take it, awesome, if not, oh well (and make a mod).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, VarenykySupreme said:

Why even have a feedback section if you don't listen to it? 

 

There's a difference between listening to/reading feedback and approving it. They certainly are listening what we have to say, but not everything we say get's approved by them. Atleast act like a half-grown man and accept that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Mumble said:

It's just a few guys saying"This is what I want,"


Im with those few guys and I want a Type56 and regular AK47 for insurgent forces. so if it is not part of the Developers ToDoList (lol?), then someone has to make it happen and donate it to them.


I also (as others have stated) want to get rid of the 74´s for non-eastern-bloc-insurgents.

Now go ahead and hate me as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Marv said:


Im with those few guys and I want a Type56 and regular AK47 for insurgent forces. so if it is not part of the Developers ToDoList (lol?), then someone has to make it happen and donate it to them.


I also (as others have stated) want to get rid of the 74´s for non-eastern-bloc-insurgents.

Now go ahead and hate me as well.

I don't have any disrespect toward your attitude at all. I myself plan to make a fighting-hole workaround mod (with parapets and such) because the developers already said no to putting time into it.

 

I could have been like the vocal guys here and said, "Listen here you dumb devs, make my damn foxholes or you're gonna get a taste of my forum spam!" Instead I'm just going to help out the community by doing it myself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Mumble said:

  "...make my damn foxholes or you're gonna get a taste of my forum spam!"

 

of course those are not gonna happen, since they would need to be bound to a mobile "hole layer material" wich has to affect real time rendering as well as collision below the landscape mesh, wich wont gonna happen. Is anyone really requesting this without properly evaluating the technical backgrounds ?

 

oh, and sorry for hijacking the topic :)

Edited by Marv

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, Marv said:

 

of course those are not gonna happen, since they would need to be bound to a mobile "hole layer material" wich has to affect real time rendering as well as collision below the landscape mesh, wich wont gonna happen. Is anyone really requesting this without properly evaluating the technical backgrounds ?

 

oh, and sorry for hijacking the topic :)

yeah it's more of a thing for the modding discord, but i was just thinking of making the parapet the main focus and bring focus off the actual hole. Essentially the idea is to have the benefit of a sandbag with much more concealment. I understand the technical difficulties, so it's really just a workaround.

 

This thread probably needs a good hijacking anyways, so go ahead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Id love to know how Dice deals with blowing craters into the mesh on the fly...if thats what is really happening inside the Frostbite engine....does or will this happen in BF1?  I read that holes did get blown into the ground creating craters...am I wrong? I did some research a year ago on this even made a thread on foxholes...:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, XRobinson said:

Id love to know how Dice deals with blowing craters into the mesh on the fly...if thats what is really happening inside the Frostbite engine....does or will this happen in BF1?  I read that holes did get blown into the ground creating craters...am I wrong? I did some research a year ago on this even made a thread on foxholes...:)

I'm not 100% sure. Even if terrain deformation was possible, it would be a pain to network on such a large scale, since the maps are bigger, the rounds are longer, and there's more players than battlefield. Different engine too.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, XRobinson said:

Id love to know how Dice deals with blowing craters into the mesh on the fly...if thats what is really happening inside the Frostbite engine....does or will this happen in BF1?  I read that holes did get blown into the ground creating craters...am I wrong? I did some research a year ago on this even made a thread on foxholes...:)

 

I'm pretty sure yeah. A shell hits dirt, there's a gonna be a nice, snug crater to hide in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

*suggests AK-47 and Type-56*

*Dev response*

*Dreaded lurker who have been waiting his whole life for this moment*

"KS-23!"

*Shitstorm*

 

How many more threads do you want to hijack just to repeat a damn point?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Z-trooper said:

Wow, so this thread managed to end up just like every other thread of this type does. Taken over in a circle jerk argument with more assumptions than you can hit with a JDAM.

 

This isn't productive at all despite of what you may think.

 

I was tempted to start replying to some of these allegations and assumptions being thrown around willy nilly, which offends my own and my co-workers honor, but I've wasted enough time on defending my own honor in the past.

 

I'd honestly love to sit down at a round table and share ideas and listen to feedback all day long. But that is what I already do on a daily basis. From a lot more than just the loudest and lengthiest typers out there.

It is easy to proclaim that we are lazy, ignorant or plain just don't want to listen, but that is simply not the truth and many people can testify that the first question that I ask is "name the 3 most annoying things/bugs/features currently in Squad".

 

We know all of the issues people have, in particular the issues people in this thread have.

 

Delete the AK74M with the folding stock. Delete or replace the M9A1 with the M9 because the front rail is too much for your immersion to handle. Delete the KS-23 shotgun, decrease the recoil of the M4. Delete or replace the current BTR-80 with one made by an outside artist that we have no control over the licence of construction of an asset, but we prefer having our own model that we can make 100% to specification and alter as many times as we want going forward over the years. (and no, I'm not the creator of it, and that has been stated nowhere, it is result of the hard work of my brilliant co-worker, Alex).

 

That about cover my listening skills?

I only know this cause it comes up in every single thread by the same few people like a broken record, we know and everyone else knows that too, let them have a chance to give feedback and not be spammed and quoted and text spammed into submission of an agenda to make this some kind of 100% realistic weapons simulator.

 

What annoys me the most is the above, and not that much of the blame is pinned on me. I can handle that, I am just the one that is dumb enough to be a public face and respond to these topics (notice how everyone else has stopped responding to these topics?). I can say that some of these comments heavily affect some developers motivation, there are few encouraging or constructive ones, they are always twisted with a hint of "not good enough" "oh look you did it all wrong again :rolleyes:" or "why this????" and then when getting the "why" there is still arguing despite getting the answers. (Try having someone be like that to you every day at your day job and come out sane).

But it affecting the motivation of my fellow developers isn't actually the worst thing, it is that all threads about a specific weapon or vehicle is ground to a halt and no more useful feedback happens past the text spam of harshly worded and intimidating language that keeps being quoted back at people until they yield.

 

And finally, we use our military advisers on nearly every damn thing. They do their job perfectly. They advise us, they don't dictate us. They are exceptionally great at what they do, but having served in the armed forces doesn't automatically qualify you as a game designer.

 

This is not some kind of grand conspiracy, this is game development damn it. We need to develop a damn game. I wouldn't expect you guys to understand that part, but I need to say it, developer tag or not.

 

Lastly, let me re-iterate this one last time, loud and clear just to make sure you understand it.

 

For you guys that want 100% realism or authenticity down to the last nut and bolt on a gun or vehicle - you won't get it with Squad (oh no! how dare he!?!). If we get things 95% correct we are more than happy on our end.

 

If you want it to be 100% accurate, start or support a mod that does exactly what it is that you want. IF you guys really think that you represent the vast majority of our community you will be doing us a favor. If not, well then no harm done - you made some friendships and learned some new skills.

In a mod you can delete as many of our failed models as you wish and add as many 100% accurate models instead of our 95%'ers as you want. You can even take away the fictional factions (yes we have two of them! squad isn't real, its a game!) and replace them with real ones with real loadouts exactly how you see fit. No lazy or ignorant developer will stand in your way of crafting the experience that you always wanted.

 

There, I ended up doing this for 45 minutes instead of creating vehicle wrecks. (Yes, doing one thing actually excludes doing another when the team is this small).

 

Yet I know that this lengthy post will end up accomplishing absolutely nothing, and to prove it, I will leave this thread open.

 

EDIT: 

I'm sorry for "crying" again Varenyky, I'm the false king and you are the victim here.

Seriously, consider this a warning - STOP throwing accusations around, especially when they are based on assumptions.

 

You have gotten way more leeway than most people on these boards because you are loud and you exhaust people into submission, and I'm sick of seeing you get away with it.

And stop belittling other peoples post with framing it as "crying" (whether the posts are mine or someone elses!) cause we both know that if I was to label your posts as crying over certain weapons or recoil, you would quote me until the day I died and wear it as a badge of martyrdom on these forums.

 

I know you don't like me or the way I work (yet you give me credit for a lot more of the "evil" and "wrong" things than I personally do, but so be it). I know you dislike me, the whole damn forum knows you dislike me. Move on.

 

I don't think it's productive which is why I don't want to have this thread, but at the same time you *really* can't expect productivity when your attitude doesn't do anything to help spread it. You reap what you sow, right? Well, if my time on the forum has taught me anything, it's that the dev team (across the board) is rather unresponsive here on the forums, which leads to people not understanding that their feedback is being read (can you really blame them, considering the disparity in activity between here and on Reddit? This place seems like a ghost town in comparison, and this ghost town has a dev drought that rival's California's water problem.

 

On the off chance that something here manages to get a response from the devs, it often comes in the form of an excuse rather than an explanation. A great example of this treads into the off-topic area of the KS-23. Rather than giving us an explanation as to why the KS-23 was chosen over breaching charges (what the Russian Army uses), we got excuses as to why the KS-23 won't be removed. Excuses are what most people expect from a child who's done something wrong, not from a game development studio that believes that they've taken the right course of action in putting time and effort into an asset. These excuses do nothing to provide insight into what you devs are planning, which is frustrating. Nobody is asking for a 20 paragraph detailed essay as to what the reasoning was for adding or not adding a certain weapon to the game, but what I personally ask is a coherent argument rather than an excuse. I feel I've done more than enough on my end to provide an argument to why it's different enough from standard AKs and more than authentic enough from the standpoint of your own argument, so what am I left with for a rebuttal other than "it's a lot of work and I don't want to do it?" Look back at your own argument and tell me, because I honestly can't figure it out, and I don't know about you, but I would never expect that as an answer from someone I trusted with a decent chunk of change. 

 

Nobody's saying you specifically have to listen to me, or to any of the other people who consider you wrong on topics such as this, but once again it's at the very least a common courtesy to explain your viewpoint. Most of your replies throughout every topic I've seen have sucked the air out of the conversation and caused the place to rot. Here is another great example (not that I'll deny my contribution to its tainting). Would it really have been hard to say "maybe at some point in the future" if it has any shot, or "no, we've decided not to add this gun and here are reasons why it doesn't deserve to be in the game" rather than taking up a -frankly- snarky attitude and proclaiming that people target Squad because it's not Battlefield alongside the argument of "I don't want to take up this specific endeavour" and the argument of authenticity, which defeats itself? From where I'm sitting, you've finally chosen to chime in on this feedback that you take into account every day, yet your response leaves me and others like me with more questions and doubt than answers and sanity. 

 

I'm not saying that you're lazy in the traditional sense of you don't want to do anything, but I am saying there's no denying that your argument comes across as laziness because that's the only real foot you've got to stand on that makes any sense. Nothing else you've put out there isn't self-defeating or nonsensical. I never said you were ignorant either, as it's clear you know about the differences in some of the items and just choose to say that either models are good enough or aren't worth making. That's not ignorance because you've acknowledged there's a difference and then chose not to fix or implement it, which falls back to laziness. As for not wanting to listen, can you honestly say you feel as though do you a good job communicating with us on these forums? Feedback isn't a one way street, so when the feedback/suggestions forum has gone weeks without a dev response, can you blame anyone that thinks that nobody is reading their posts and that their ideas aren't going anywhere? 

 

Hell, even if you were to ask me about the three most annoying things in Squad, none of what we've talked about today would pop up on that list because there is far worse things about Squad than some of the miffed and missing content. Don't act like any of what I said today would even come close to a top three list of issues with the game, and really it would be easier to sum it up into a single issue under a catch-all title like "inaccurate content and lack of appropriate explanation from the developers as to why". 

 

Onto your list, I'll clarify for myself: I don't think the AKS-74M should be deleted so much as the night optic rail should be removed and the furniture should be swapped out for wood to make a classic AKS-74, which is extremely common in Eastern countries and is definitely much more common than AK-74Ns in the Middle East. I don't think the M9A1 should be deleted, but I do believe that the M9A1 should eventually be removed from the Army faction for whenever you guys do (if you do) get around to making the proposed USMC faction (there goes your snarky attitude again, by the way). The KS-23 shouldn't be deleted, but the model is improper for what even the Russian police use these days. I think the long barrel, wooden stock version should be kept for the militia faction and the MVD's short barrel, folding stock variant should be added to the Russian Army, unless of course you decide to add breaching charges as the Russian Army actually uses. As for the M4's recoil, I've talked directly to Ross about this and even he believes my ideas have some merit. My problem is best exemplified with the M4's recoil, did you know that? I believe I've done a good job communicating that my problem is with the current recoil model overall rather than with just the M4, though the M4's recoil is the easiest to see it with. Read the thread "shooting system overhaul" by ZiGreen here? Great thread with lots of amazing ideas, go ahead and read it because his ideas mirror mine to the point that Ross even suggested that ZiGreen is a duplicate account of mine. I don't think the BTR80 that Fish made should be added now that you guys have made one, but his is undeniably nicer than the once you guys have previewed so far, that being said I doubt it's truly complete and I'm sure there's room for feedback on vehicle models, like that one awesome thread about the MTLB's inaccuracies. 

 

See, here's back to the snarky attitude with details we never fucking knew or thought about. Nothing I've read before had brought up the idea that he didn't want to transfer the rights to the model to you before, or that such a thing might even be an issue because I don't think like a developer, and have not been offered this type of insight. That's a perfectly good reason and I wholly support making your own model if that's the issue, but had you previously vocalized this issue to the community? If so, it's nowhere that I've seen it.

 

It comes up like a broken record because people, like myself, are upset. Also, why don't you cut with the bullshit about "the same few people" and use proper names; it's not as if we don't know who you're talking about, so why skirt around the truth? Don't choose now to be bashful when you've been brazen so far. This thread is about the Type 56 and why it should be added, is it wrong that I should add my opinion that I've previously stated to it? Is it wrong to expect this thread to go the same way other suggestions about the Type 56 has, or are you saying I should treat it with more possibility because I wasn't the person posting it? Nobody is asking this to be a 100% accurate weapon simulator, but keep playing the victim of big bad bully me if that's how you feel. You yourself used the words authentic, and an authentic option has been brought up here, and you're still saying no and acting like you're the victim of undeserved anguish here. 

 

You know why you get responses like "why?" or "why this?" or "not good enough"? Because people want to know your thinking when it comes to adding a certain weapon. Because occasionally you guys put out models or weapon additions that are below the level of quality that we know you can attain. Nobody here thinks you guys are shit at modeling and that you can't get it right; in fact it's the opposite. We know you can do better, which is why we point out that you guys could've done a better job. Nobody looks at games with shit graphics and comments everywhere that they could've made a better model, they do that when a developer that has proven themselves to have a great staff puts out a model that looks like it was made by someone who has never been around a gun. Why should we settle when we know what you're capable of? ArmA III is currently doing the same thing with the Apex update, and you can look at their forums right now and I guarantee you there's at least 4 threads with at least 20 pages of straight up bold criticism of the update's poorly done content. The same thing is happening here, but the difference is Bohemia is taking it in stride and you are pawning it off as an excuse for lower staff morale and worse performance when it comes to your jobs. As for people bitching at you and keeping your sanity, what the fuck do you think I do all day? I guarantee you my day job is a whole hell of a lot more frustrating than yours, yet I still manage to keep my sanity when I get dumb questions. 

 

Once again, this thread is for two specific weapons that many have suggested in the past and you have given the same response. I will give my spiel the same way you have given yours, and when people respond to me with a question or a retort that longs for a response I will keep going. I'm sure you would've preferred if you were the end all be all of this thread, but if you wanted that you should've locked it as you know that people want these guns in the game and we know that you don't want to add them yet we don't know any good reason as to why not. 

 

Nobody believes serving in the military qualifies you to be a game designer, which is why they are advisers and not designers. That being said, there are areas in which it is clear that their input is totally ignored or isn't helpful enough to have translated properly into the game.

 

Nobody here wants 100% realism, but if your goal is authenticity then 95% is more than a respectable goal. With that said, the way the game currently is I can guarantee you it's far less than 95% accurate, and if it continues down the current trend it'll be a hell of a lot lower at the end, unless of course your ideas is to add a bunch of stuff now and then go back and fix it at a later date. I disagree with the idea that you think it's acceptable to miss nuts and bolts on firearms, especially when people take the time to point it out to you, but I understand that not everything is necessarily possible given constraints. 

 

As far as I know, nobody here as complained about the fictional factions as a whole, though I can still tell you I think the new militia uniforms are a terrible, stereotypical mistake that rivals on making an African faction with nose bones and lip plates. 

 

Is that not what you're doing? You're making yourself out to be the victim of me, the supposed forum bully. You act as if people pointing out that content can be better is a bad thing. I'm not a victim, but neither are you. I read your posts and mirror the respect that I believe you show me and others. I, for one, feel your posts are rather rude and heavily assumptive, so my posts are the same in return. Want a more polite, less assumptive me? Be less of that yourself; I promise it exists, you can ask any of the moderators or devs (like Iron Bay or Ross) that such a me exists, but it's not something I'm going to put forth unless you're willing to put forth the same on your end. After all, this is a relationship, even if it's a bad one. 

 

As for that, yeah, you're damn right I would because debates are all about getting the leg up on your opponent, and even though I'd rather this debate was more civil and less in the territory of doing something as low as that, I'd do it in a heartbeat at this current rate. 

 

I don't dislike you because I don't know you. I dislike the rather high-and-mighty attitude you give off here, but you're a human and I doubt that you act that way in real life or even around all of the forum members here. I don't dislike the way you work because I don't know the way you work. I know you make models, and I know you've turned down a good number of suggestions that meet your own requirements, but that's about it. I'd love an insight into your thought process for this stuff and I even said that earlier. I want to know why the Type 56 isn't worthy of being put into the game, but from the perspective of a consumer your points are riddled with holes that you refuse to plug. 

 

I'll move on when you give me the reason to; after all, you're the key holder here. Your choice to unlock the door. You can "solve" this thread and I think you can do it in a way that would be helpful to me and all the people like me who care about this game as well as authenticity.

 

7 hours ago, Zeno965 said:

 

Way to come of like a totaly doucebag, When will you understand that Squad cannot satify everones tiniest gun-fetish, so if you really want it so bad, why dont you just make it yourself?? its a reason why they made this game moddable.

 

 

 

Would your rather I sugarcoat it and dance around the point? He could've saved himself time, me time, and improved the quality of the discussion here in the community, but instead he chose to play the victim rather than the opponent of a debate. 

 

7 hours ago, Mumble said:

I can't believe this thread is still going. Like Z-Trooper said, this isn't feedback at this point. It's just a few guys saying "This is what I want," and the devs say, "We hear ya. that's not in our plan, but you're welcome to mod it!" and the response is, "but I really really want it," followed by "uh, nope, sorry. You can still mod it though."

 

Rinse and repeat. Next time, just give your feedback. If the devs take it, awesome, if not, oh well (and make a mod).

 

Take off your rose-tinted glasses for a second, bud, and you'll see why. He didn't say anything like that, nor was it written in a way to present it as an opportunity rather than the only choice we have. It's not welcoming, so why would we choose that option?

 

7 hours ago, carmikaze said:

 

There's a difference between listening to/reading feedback and approving it. They certainly are listening what we have to say, but not everything we say get's approved by them. Atleast act like a half-grown man and accept that.

 

There is indeed a difference and no not everything read is approved, but as I said above they don't exactly do a good job communicating with us what they think is an idea worth approving and what's a bad idea and for what reason. 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by VarenykySupreme

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Z-trooper said:

If you want it to be 100% accurate, start or support a mod that does exactly what it is that you want. 

 

Project Reality.A Squad modification.

Sounds great,don't you think so?

The main problems of mods:

1)Quality.

2)Nobody play it.

 

8 hours ago, Z-trooper said:

And finally, we use our military advisers on nearly every damn thing. They do their job perfectly. They advise us, they don't dictate us. They are exceptionally great at what they do, but having served in the armed forces doesn't automatically qualify you as a game designer.

 

Remind BF3 Devs interview.They also had Military advisers.

 

1 hour ago, Blackout330 said:

*suggests AK-47 and Type-56*

*Dev response*

*Dreaded lurker who have been waiting his whole life for this moment*

"KS-23!"

*Shitstorm*

 

How many more threads do you want to hijack just to repeat a damn point?

 

Thread is cursed by powerfull spell,called KS-23. :P

Thats just good example of things,that shoudn't be.

Edited by samogon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i really hope the AK74 and the AKM are staying the way they are at the moment...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@VarenykySupreme 

 

In the beginning of all, there was the Kallash. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, samogon said:

Remind BF3 Devs interview.They also had Military advisers.

 

Unless we're talking games which want to base themselves in realism over gameplay(eg. the game that starts with A and ends with rmA), the military advisors in other games are just for show and have little to no influence on the overall product. Most of the time it's just assuring the quality of the models.

 

Overall I feel as though a number of you guys(interestingly how you're all gathered in this thread as well) need to tone it down a notch. The devs aren't unresponsive, they aren't blockheads, and they are working as hard as possible to give us rich and varied gameplay. In that sense an SKS is an infinitely better choice to create than it is to have the umpteen rendition of the AK. As much as any producer would like to please their customer, at one point you've got to realize that it's not reasonable at all.

 

Oh, and btw, regarding the pistols on the Russian kits: I think they put it on the kits to make sure these weapons get used when playing so that feedback is possible, and their removal will happen in due time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Frontliner said:

Unless we're talking games which want to base themselves in realism over gameplay(eg. the game that starts with A and ends with rmA), the military advisors in other games are just for show and have little to no influence on the overall product. Most of the time it's just assuring the quality of the models.

 

Another guy compare meters and liters.

Repeat again - ArmA3.They have gameplay of good military shooter,but they're completely unrealistic in vanilla,just because it's in the future.But still - they share realistic mechanic.The reason,why they popular - it's sandbox.Tons of missions created by community.This isn't sandbox.

 

as for quality of models,it's failed again.

And it's only one thread.

Even existent content have tons of incorrections,such as SVD or OPFOR Binoculars.But it's not going to be fixed,reason is - community will ate this and ask for another one.

 

I understood answer like - "We don't have resources for that."But after all mistakes,which been created by devs,and none of them been fixed it sounds insulting for me.This makes me regret I bought this game.

 

The KS-23 shouldn't be deleted, but the model is improper for what even the Russian police use these days.

 

Keyword - police.BTW both in usage,just it's rare.

Edited by samogon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread is an example of a problem this forums has had for quite a while, a problem that was present when I stopped using the forums over a month ago and seems to still be present.

 

There are two sides in every circle jerk argument that erupts around here; the military enthusiasts and the development enthusiasts.

 

Both sides are mostly just giving well mannered and meaning feedback to begin with but a few ego fuelled people come in flinging shit. This then devolves into people either joining in on the shit flinging or ignoring the now volatile thread.

 

What should happen is this, if you are responding to someone just to tell them how wrong they are then don't, correcting someone is one thing but calling them out on not being as knowledgeable as you is just being shitty. Instead, look at what you've got typed in front and get rid of the useless personal insults before submitting a reply. Also, try to remove any tones of arrogance or disdain when writing a response, even if you think it's justified it does no favours for your case and just sours the readers opinion against you.

 

If you think the devs should just grow thicker skin and respond to every volatile thread until the perceived problems disappear you'll be disappointed. If the devs are anything like me they'll be taking very small breaks while working and checking the forums, if they see a thread that is getting volatile then they'll ignore it and get back to work without reading half a dozen people continuously talk about how shit they are. You may think the devs only use Reddit because they're bitches but what's the point in reading the same bile repeated in every single thread?

 

If you want the devs to be more active on these forums then stop reposting the same complaints again and again. Z-Trooper has proven that they know about the issues, and while he could definitely put more thought into his own responses constantly reminding him that he's bad at his job is just going to get him to ignore any value in your posts because he's a human being and that's the way association works.

 

In short, I just want people to act like adults rather than arrogant children.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×