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YuriIsLoveYuriIsLife

Classic AK-47 and Type 56.

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53 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

Promoting and showing people the game while carefully selecting what words you choose to describe different aspects of the game, so later you can change on the go, and so on to please the crowd, and say "Oh we never claimed that or this" for the guys who were expecting more. Its business though. They got to earn and eat... I understand that.

And to add something, to have an authenthic equipment modeled in the game does not mean the game is a milsim automatically, it just means you got authenthic equipment. It should be like that anyway. It will bring the game and the name Squad high above competition, and people will have high regard for it. Because ordinary dodo's who buy the game to play it for 150 hours and then ditch it will never notice authenthic weapons for example, but core people who were here from beginning will play the game for 2000+ hours will stay and make the game grow in players and direction of development possibly, because - clans, events, websites, matches, forum discussions, live streams, youtube videos... etc. etc.

Anyway, the game is arcade now, I will explain bellow:
Map tells you everything and kills tactical idea of the battlefield and/or realistic fights.
Theres no body momentum, and you can sprint and zig zag very fast and dodge bullets.
You can prone in an instant, and while at it immediatly turn 180 (ridiculous).

You can sprint trough water and sprint up the 70 degree hill slopes.
The stamina is ridiculously high, the soldier you are controling never gets tired while sprinting like Ferrari 10 meters per 1 second under the load of combat equipment. All this, DEFEATS the purpose of teamplay and kit selection the game or Developer is trying to promote. 

(Before you go and tell me the game is Alpha, I will tell you, thats why I am posting this, because its the right time to direct it into the right direction.)

Cheers boys, see you on the server,
Rain

 


 

 

There's a very legit reason why the soldiers are like super soldiers ATM: No vehicles. It's been discussed before.

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54 minutes ago, Assifuah said:

In-fact, the most constructive thread (with insight) I've seen about these flaws and inaccuracies was where the user actually drew up comparisons and made it visually more in depth than a few lines of whiny text demanding something.

 

 

Can you link me that? I'm just curious.

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19 minutes ago, samogon said:

Yeah,yeah.Western character.You able to feed someone shit,but with a smile.Smile is a keypoint.

 

Maybe for you developer means same as god,but not for me.Keep pray for your gods,instead of provide real ideas.Sooner or later probably turn into soulless BF-clone with diffirent rule set,nothing more.PR,at least had soul,this... yet not.

Will see,what gonna be like ArmA3:PR...

 

But bro. I'm a Slav.. lol. :)

 

@YuriIsLoveYuriIsLife Sure! 

 

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3 minutes ago, YuriIsLoveYuriIsLife said:

 

There's a very legit reason why the soldiers are like super soldiers ATM: No vehicles. It's been discussed before.


Tell me why then the FOB points come in so slow then? We don't have logistics implemented yet, right? ;) Same logic.
Its about time to slow the game pace down, without vehicles... 

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4 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:


Tell me why then the FOB points come in so slow then? We don't have logistics implemented yet, right? ;) Same logic.
Its about time to slow the game pace down, without vehicles... 

 

Word salad much? What do FOB's come into slowly?

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7 minutes ago, YuriIsLoveYuriIsLife said:

 

Word salad much? What do FOB's come into slowly?

Sorry, I don't speak Mongolian, try English next time. 

As I said - We don't have logistics implemented yet which would lead me to believe FOB would be easier to construct with point for construction coming in faster. On the other hand we got no vehicles but movement speed is fast. Does not make sense.

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38 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

Sorry, I don't speak Mongolian, try English next time. 

As I said - We don't have logistics implemented yet which would lead me to believe FOB would be easier to construct with point for construction coming in faster. On the other hand we got no vehicles but movement speed is fast. Does not make sense.

 

Ok, I just had to re-read your original comment like 10 times. They're called "construction points" or sometimes "build points." Why do the generate so slow? Beats me. But that doesn't somehow debunk the argument about fast soldiers.

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On 13.6.2016 at 11:37 PM, Hunter_Sh0tz said:

I think the Type 56 should replace the AKM if implemented. 

 

8 hours ago, I_hate_usernames said:

T

Ok so the AKM is similar and rare. But the type-56 deserves to be in game, especially with it prevalence in the Middle-East, TBH it has as much of a difference between the AKM as the M4 and the M16. 

 

What? The AKM is one of the most common rifles for middle east insurgents, the black market is flooded with them.

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9 hours ago, Z-trooper said:

The game "Squad" isn't a military simulator, it is in fact a game. It tries to find the middle ground between arcade and simulation, that has been the mission statement from day 1.
.

 

In the end I suppose we get these complaints because we dare go closer to realism than Battlefield does, cause go take a look at their loadouts and realism. 

I think we can all agree that Squad is a more authentic experience than Battlefield, and that is in line with our mission and goals.

But in the end, we are also making a game, just like Battlefield is a game, yet some people don't see it :)

 

i don't think that anybody is asking for an "as close to real life as possible" military simulator, but a bit more realism would not be a bad idea,

especially when it comes to player movement/stance and gunplay.

 

these are the CORE elements of a shooter game, be it realistic or not and exactly these core elements are getting worse and worse in SQUAD,

at leats that's how it feels like.

 

for example, the gunplay is extremely sluggish, where other things that should be sluggish and slow are not, it's paradoxic.

 

i've written this a few times already, switching from a rifle to a sidearm/grenade takes so damn long,

and it looks like the soldier is doing it so slowly...on purpose!

 

then again, going prone and getting up again  goes in a blink of a second,

this has nothing to do with "realism V arcade", it's simply wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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I was also initially against the KS-23M, but they way the same people reacted to it over and over again pretty much pushed me over to the other side. Yes, it's not authentic, it could be better, but there has to be a reason why Nosferatu told the team to chuck one on in. And I kinda trust that his instinct is right. Anyway if anything goes wrong they can always revert back to '74Ms.

 

I just hope we can the Russian breaching charges (C2?).

 

Regarding OP though, I like the idea of a Type 56 to supplement AKMs and AKMSs, but they are going to be a waste of time. Milled receiever, slanted stock, new dust cover, new muzzle, new sights and even a fancy new bayonet needs to be modeled and textured. The only thing that can be reused from existing models would be the magazine and handguards, and even then the handguard texture would need tweaking too.

Mods. Mods solve everything. Hopefully.

Edited by Blackout330

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2 hours ago, Blackout330 said:

but there has to be a reason why Nosferatu told the team to chuck one on in. And I kinda trust that his instinct is right.

 

I have a hard time believing Nosferatu supported KS-23, in fact I think it was quite the opposite. Alas, it is still there along with other interesting choices. 

Edited by BTR

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8 hours ago, Blackout330 said:

I was also initially against the KS-23M, but they way the same people reacted to it over and over again pretty much pushed me over to the other side. Yes, it's not authentic, it could be better, but there has to be a reason why Nosferatu told the team to chuck one on in. And I kinda trust that his instinct is right. Anyway if anything goes wrong they can always revert back to '74Ms.

 

I just hope we can the Russian breaching charges (C2?).

 

Regarding OP though, I like the idea of a Type 56 to supplement AKMs and AKMSs, but they are going to be a waste of time. Milled receiever, slanted stock, new dust cover, new muzzle, new sights and even a fancy new bayonet needs to be modeled and textured. The only thing that can be reused from existing models would be the magazine and handguards, and even then the handguard texture would need tweaking too.

Mods. Mods solve everything. Hopefully.

 

I don't want it to replace the AKM! 

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2 hours ago, YuriIsLoveYuriIsLife said:

 

I don't want it to replace the AKM! 

...?

 

10 hours ago, Blackout330 said:

Type 56 to supplement

 

10 hours ago, Blackout330 said:

supplement

 

10 hours ago, Blackout330 said:

 supplement

Yea I don't want it to either, the AKM is too ubiquitous for that. That's why I say supplement like how the AKMS supplemented the AKM and the AKS-74 with the AK-74 back in Pre-Alpha.

 

Not to mention they are pretty damn different things in practice. That 100rpm rate of fire advantage over the AKM is not to be underestimated.

Edited by Blackout330

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4 hours ago, Blackout330 said:

...?

 

 

 

Yea I don't want it to either, the AKM is too ubiquitous for that. That's why I say supplement like how the AKMS supplemented the AKM and the AKS-74 with the AK-74 back in Pre-Alpha.

 

Not to mention they are pretty damn different things in practice. That 100rpm rate of fire advantage over the AKM is not to be underestimated.

...Forget my last comment. Yeah... Add the Type 56/AK-47 alongside the AKM.

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Railed for this long and hard before with reasons why the weapon is different and would be a different experience from the AKM in game, but no such luck. Don't expect anything other than a post from ZT about why it won't happen.

 

On 6/14/2016 at 3:29 AM, samogon said:

to OP.

Classic AK is very rare.Production was very limited... they was mixed with SKS.

In fact - this is relict now.Not many of them left,none of then been copied(because it was expencive).

 

 

74s is very rare in middle east.

 

 

as guy,who have 3d modelling experience - I understand you.

But instead of creating fictional weapon(yes,Im talking about KS-23) you probably should listen,what community want.

Im still not sure,what purpose of this game - casual community will never play it,while milsim community already draw a negative feedback of it.

 

The original AK has still been decently prevalent in Africa and the Middle East, surprisingly. That being said, it's not prevalent enough to be worth adding to the game for no reason other than diversity. I will say that it would be cool to see one, but it's not something the devs should focus on. 

 

On 6/14/2016 at 11:15 AM, Z-trooper said:

I don't think you are right about your assessment of the feedback and the people who play it. 

 

We hear all of the complaints, and most of them are from a very small number of people out of like 200.000+ people who chose to buy our game.

And it is the same arguments in every single thread we see them, by mostly the same few people.

 

The game "Squad" isn't a military simulator, it is in fact a game. It tries to find the middle ground between arcade and simulation, that has been the mission statement from day 1.

 

You won't get 100% accuracy or realism cause... this is a computer game. A computer game where you can re-spawn, where the sun is in the wrong spot in the sky and where people without military training are fighting along side you disguised as military people. Not realistic at all :) 

 

Our job is to provide people with an entertaining and/or memorable experience not be historians, weapon smiths, armorers and lecturers. 

 

You guys need to realize that at some point and not keep going in circles with how X is not right or how Y does not do what it does in real life.

Digitization of anything will come with compromises, either due to technology, balance or to enhance the experience for all of our customers not just the few.

 

In the end I suppose we get these complaints because we dare go closer to realism than Battlefield does, cause go take a look at their loadouts and realism. 

I think we can all agree that Squad is a more authentic experience than Battlefield, and that is in line with our mission and goals.

But in the end, we are also making a game, just like Battlefield is a game, yet some people don't see it :)

 

If you want realism and 100% accuracy, then I suggest you do the following:

 

1. Realize that it is a game

2. If you want it to be a simulator, start or support a mod that specializes Squad to your specific requirements and level of satisfaction, cause we have to provide the experience for the larger audience. If it turns out to be popular we all win, if not, well then I am sure lots of friendships and new skills have been learned in the process.

 

I'm sorry for the rant, but I see these kinds of comments all the time, from the same few people, and it gets old. And so many threads gets taken over by these circle arguments that could otherwise have given new insight in to game mechanics or suggestions that would enrich the game.

 

And no, we aren't going to delete a shotgun because the Russian army doesn't use it in real life. 

 

Oh look, I was right! Not surprising in the least, if I do say so myself. 

 

The reason that you hear complaints only from a small number of people probably has at least a little to do with the fact that the devs here spend more time on Reddit (aka Hugbox Simulator) than they do here "because people are negative, and nobody wants to be surrounded by negativity". Nobody on Reddit ever complains directly to a dev about a problem because it's never a big enough issue, and if they dare to do so they end up being downvoted to oblivion because they've committed an unforgivable sin. A lot of other people don't complain for reasons such as: they don't play the game, they've given up trying to convince the devs that they might be wrong on something, or they lack the knowledge required to comment on whether or not something is truly authentic.

 

I'd also like to say it's unsurprising that the people you receive complaints from (it's almost like I'm one of them!) happen to have a good bit of experience with firearms, military vehicles, and all other sorts of stuff that play heavily into this game. Unsurprisingly, when people who have spent X amount of years in the Russian military or Y amount of years shooting AKs see that there's a problem with the AK, they're going to be the first ones to call it out and will continue to call it out until it's fixed. Good arguments don't need to be changed. This is why you see the same arguments over and over again from the same people. When the problem persists, so will the complaints.

 

Nobody wants Squad to be a military simulator. I love ArmA, I love Battlefield, I love Project Reality, and I can't wait to love Squad once it's molded into a playable game, but right now it's in a stage where FEEDBACK is necessary. Do you expect people to sit here and love your game in alpha without any criticism? Nobody, including myself, is here to watch this game fail. I know I'm not suggesting things that would be detrimental to gameplay, but when there's a problem with authenticity I'll call it out. Also, hasn't the mission statement since Day 1 been "the spiritual successor to Project Reality"? That must've been one of those pre-Day 1 only statements otherwise, because I very well remember seeing this game before it even hit the Steam Greenlight page and noticing that statement. 

 

Nobody is expecting 100% accuracy in terms of realism, but I damn sure expect a high level of accuracy and attention to detail when it comes to the loadouts of specific nations and militia/terrorist factions based on the region in which they exist and the loadouts of their real life counterparts. I don't think it's too much to ask that, when you claim to want to bring us an authentic game, that you take the time to make the game as authentic as possible in areas that are core to the game. Do you think that's fair? 

 

The statement "Our job is to provide people with an entertaining and/or memorable experience not be historians, weapon smiths, armorers and lecturers" is extremely concerning to me because it implies that your job, as a developer claiming right now to be making an authentic game, is not to bring us an authentic game. It throws out all responsibility on the part of the developer to make good models that are accurate for the time period and setting. Are you going to seriously tell me that you hired military veterans to be experts for no reason? That sounds pretty fucking stupid to me, pardon my French. 

 

In the end you get these complaints because you don't fix problems that have been pointed out, make up excuses that tell us that you can't be bothered to fix your mistakes, and outright refuse (and don't tell me you don't because I've seen you do it before) to entertain the addition of content or gameplay changes that you don't agree with for any other reason than "I don't want them". Do you honestly think you're going to sate your community by telling them "we don't want to do it, so fuck off" rather than giving us an explanation? You can tell us you don't owe us an explanation, but I beg to differ. If you want me to recommend your game to my friends, you'd better be willing to give answers to me that I can repeat to them about why something is wrong or why something isn't included, because I think more than a few of my friends who served in Iraq would be disappointed to hear that the only reason there aren't VBIEDs is because Z-Trooper decided to speak for the entire staff and said "we don't want to do it, that's it, discussion is over". 

 

Once again we go to the classic Z-T response of "make a mod if you don't like it". I hate to say it, but just like in ArmA, mods don't excuse a fundamental lack of content and lack of effort on the part of the development team. Project Reality was great because they welcomed modders to add content to their game, but here it's an excuse to make other people fix your errors. Do you really think people want to make a mod to add the Type 56 and nothing else? What are the chances of that being added to the game? What are the chances of any server ever using that specific mod if it isn't adopted? Wasted effort, just like most mods for ArmA and other games.

 

There's my rant. Ball's in your court. If you don't like hearing the same arguments over and over again, give a reason to the people as to why they should stop or fix the issue. The Type 56 is more than prevalent enough and different enough from the standard AKM to be in the game and to replace the AK-74N for the Insurgent faction. The AK-47 might not be and I'll concede that, but the Type 56 is a whole different beast from the AKM. 

 

Nobody's asking you to delete the KS-23, they're just asking to see it be used by a faction other than the Russian military. The Militia faction could really make use of this weapon without the Russian military ever seeing it as the KS-23 does have a civilian model, or better yet, you could even shorten the KS-23 and give it the hook stock and throw it onto the Russian army faction and claim it was adopted by the Russian Army as an anti-terrorist operation weapon. There's a lot of things you can do and a lot of ways to explain things when you're talking about a near-future scenario, you just refuse to do it and people get frustrated. 

 

 

 

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Real disappointing to see squad move away from the authentic experience if I'm reading this right and seeing how Z-trooper just wants to add in weapons for the sake of it. Hopefully this gets culled before we have a black ops style weapon list where unused oddball shit is added in for the sake of weapons diversity.  

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17 hours ago, Blackout330 said:

I was also initially against the KS-23M, but they way the same people reacted to it over and over again pretty much pushed me over to the other side. Yes, it's not authentic, it could be better, but there has to be a reason why Nosferatu told the team to chuck one on in. And I kinda trust that his instinct is right. Anyway if anything goes wrong they can always revert back to '74Ms.

 

I just hope we can the Russian breaching charges (C2?).

 

Regarding OP though, I like the idea of a Type 56 to supplement AKMs and AKMSs, but they are going to be a waste of time. Milled receiever, slanted stock, new dust cover, new muzzle, new sights and even a fancy new bayonet needs to be modeled and textured. The only thing that can be reused from existing models would be the magazine and handguards, and even then the handguard texture would need tweaking too.

Mods. Mods solve everything. Hopefully.

 

Type 56 is mostly stamped. There are less than 200K milled type 56's. Most prevalent Type 56 (mod 0/1/2) are stamped with 1.5mm reciever and a thicker but more fragile twisting. Initial chrome lining on milled Type 56 was bad. I know they dumped most of them in Albania.

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49 minutes ago, Yukari_Akiyama said:

Real disappointing to see squad move away from the authentic experience if I'm reading this right and seeing how Z-trooper just wants to add in weapons for the sake of it. Hopefully this gets culled before we have a black ops style weapon list where unused oddball shit is added in for the sake of weapons diversity.  

No that's not the case. Obviously I'm speaking from an outside standpoint, but I'm assuming that he means they will not waste resources (at least that this point in development) on making sure everything is 100% authentic to it's respective real life counterpart based on other people's research. 

I.e...

insurgents will likely have access to some 7.62 aks 

It will fire 7.62x39 and look like an AK.. Are they going to take time to add Romanian AKMs, Russian AK47s, and Yugos with Little details for stamped vs milled receivers and the such? It'd be cool to have that variety in 3 years maybe, but not right now IMO...

 

Edited by Sierra1Golf

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On 13/06/2016 at 10:36 PM, YuriIsLoveYuriIsLife said:

Ak-47's and Type 56's are used extensively by insurgent forces in the Middle East and some armies. If this weapon is implemented, I think it should replace the AK-74M for the Middle Eastern insurgents. I'm really surprised this isn't anywhere on the list of confirmed weapons/vehicles for squad: 

 

Here's a pic of an AK-47 and Type 56: The difference between this and the other AK rifles is that the muzzle is flat and the stock is angled downwards. On the AK, the receiver is angled. On the Chinese version, the wood stock has been angled, it has a folding bayonet, the muzzle is smoother, and the front sight is fully hooded.

 

AK-47:Replica_AK47.jpg

Type 56:

Norinco_type_56.jpg

 

Insurgents with AK-47's/Type-56's:

041118_insurgent_hmed_330a.grid-6x2.jpgAK

 

mideast_syria_iraq1-11.jpg?quality=90&stType 56.

 

alalam_635857960983506184_25f_4x3.jpgAK

 

ISISManWithCheckeredMask.jpgAK(S)

 

 

 

 

Oi you got that thing badly mixed.

 

Last picture that's a stockless Type 56 (muzzle and gasport) and what looks like a FEG85

Second from last, it is a wooden mockup of a bulgarian rifle (waffle mag).

Third from last (Type56/AKM/PM63)

Fourth from last (AKM)

Second what looks as a stamped, Type 56-0 (buttstock comb, trunion lever).

And finally the first...not an "AK" but and East German repoduction (E-D selector markings and 2B/3A short triggerguard + sightblock).

 

There's no milled AK in your pictures.

 

Also there's no AK74M for Talibobs ingame.  Only 74.

Edited by KTMR29

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6 minutes ago, KTMR29 said:

 

 

Oi you got that thing badly mixed.

 

Last picture that's a stockless Type 56 (muzzle and gasport) and what looks like a FEG85

Second from last, it is a wooden mockup of a bulgarian rifle (waffle mag).

Third from last (Type56/AKM/PM63)

Fourth from last (AKM)

Second what looks as a stamped, Type 56-0 (buttstock comb, trunion lever).

And finally the first...not an "AK" but and East German repoduction (E-D selector markings and 2B/3A short triggerguard + sightblock).

 

There's no milled AK in your pictures.

 

How the hell do you people know this stuff?

Edit: I thought the last one was a Type 56 because of the smooth muzzle but wasn't sure.

Edited by YuriIsLoveYuriIsLife

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Just now, YuriIsLoveYuriIsLife said:

 

How the hell do you people know this stuff?

 

When you serve in what's basically a great AK 50's/60's/70's bazaar of an army, you tend to notice things.

 

Also we love our AK's. Kallash Über Alles.

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39 minutes ago, Sierra1Golf said:

No that's not the case. Obviously I'm speaking from an outside standpoint, but I'm assuming that he means they will not waste resources (at least that this point in development) on making sure everything is 100% authentic to it's respective real life counterpart based on other people's research. 

I.e...

insurgents will likely have access to some 7.62 aks 

It will fire 7.62x39 and look like an AK.. Are they going to take time to add Romanian AKMs, Russian AK47s, and Yugos with Little details for stamped vs milled receivers and the such? It'd be cool to have that variety in 3 years maybe, but not right now IMO...

 

 

Are you crazy man!? you can't come into this thread using sense and logic!

The small dev team has to drop everything they are doing (Intergrating 4.12, animations, player models, netmove coding, vehicle work, optimization, bug fixes, map work etc) right now and tart up some AK models. Plus get it all perfect in under a year so people can compare it to something that took 10 years to do.

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9 minutes ago, Carlos said:

 

Are you crazy man!? you can't come into this thread using sense and logic!

The small dev team has to drop everything they are doing (Intergrating 4.12, animations, player models, netmove coding, vehicle work, optimization, bug fixes, map work etc) right now and tart up some AK models. Plus get it all perfect in under a year so people can compare it to something that took 10 years to do.

 

Yup. Most people don't realise that Project Reality didn't start off as a full blown total conversion mod the same way Squad won't start off as a fully authentic game (and there's more important things than a few panels on an MTLB or BTR right now such as getting the actual functionality down).

 

If these people were really about giving feedback they would have posted it once and accepted it. Complaining and mentioning the same thing several times over and over again.. well, that's just them wanting something.

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